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Adobe evangelist lashes out at Apple over iPhone 4.0

post #1 of 274
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Changes in Apple's iPhone 4.0 developer agreement have sparked passionate outrage from a Flash evangelist which was so intense that Adobe redacted some of his blog comments.

Curiously, Apple made no mention of the wording change or what it might mean to developers during the introduction of iPhone 4.0. The new clause was only discovered by registered iPhone developers, who then leaked the agreement wording to the public with their own interpretation of what it might mean.

Apple has neither clarified nor expanded upon the wording in the new agreement, nor is it likely to do so. Requests for further comment from Apple have as yet received no reply.

Responses from other sources have far more intense. Lee Brimelow, a Platform Evangelist at Adobe who advocates Flash and related Flex and AIR development for the company, posted to The Flash Blog today an entry that began by saying, "new iPhone 4.0 SDK language appears to make creating applications in any non-Apple-approved languages a violation of terms. Obviously Adobe is looking into this wording carefully so I will not comment any further until there is an official conclusion."

Immediately afterward however, Brimelow announced, "What is clear is that Apple has timed this purposely to hurt sales of CS5." One of the primary selling points of CS5 is Flash Professional's touted ability to generate native iPhone apps using the same tools to create Flash content, although there are a variety of other notable new features in the package.

That comment was incendiary enough to prompt Adobe management to ask Brimelow to strike it from his blog entry, which he later did. But Brimelow continued in his criticism, calling the change "a frightening move that has no rational defense other than [Apple] wanting tyrannical control over developers and more importantly, wanting to use developers as pawns in their crusade against Adobe."

Will Unity3D run afoul of the new iPhone 4.0 SDK?

Brimelow also said "This does not just affect Adobe but also other technologies like Unity3D," apparently citing speculation by Mac blogger John Gruber, who explained yesterday that the rule change might not involve Unity3D, but also that it might. (Unity3D is a cross-platform gaming engine that makes it easier to develop titles for a variety of systems, from Macs and PCs to the Wii and iPhone.)

"I originally thought this would ban games written using Unity3D," Gruber wrote, "but perhaps not Unity3D produces a complete Xcode project and Objective-C source files, so its more like a pre-processor than a cross-compiler. Hard to tell. If you forced me to bet, though, the fact that developers are writing C# code puts Unity3D on the wrong side of this rule."

Brimelow didn't wait for official clarification or even parrot Gruber's uncertainty about how this would all play out. Instead, he described the change as a "hostile and despicable move" by Apple before characterizing his own company by saying, "All we want is to provide creative professionals an avenue to deploy their work to as many devices as possible. We are not looking to kill anything or anyone."

Adobe vs Flash

But it wasn't too long ago that Adobe was itself trying to kill Flash, back when Flash was owned by Macromedia. Adobe supported SVG as an alternative to doing vector graphics on the web, and promoted SMIL (Synchronized Multimedia Integration Language) as an open specification for presenting multimedia using XML.

Of course, now that Adobe owns Flash, it has dropped all interest in advocating those open standards, because with its acquisition of Macromedia, Adobe also obtained what Brimelow might call "tyrannical control over developers" who create dynamic web content.

Canvas vs Flash

Meanwhile, the most significant threat to Adobe's Flash platform is HTML5's Canvas. Adobe is participating in HTML5 development, but is among those working to split Canvas from the HTML5 specification, a move that would greatly weaken the next version of the web's markup language from delivering the kinds of features that are often currently implemented in Flash.

Another company with less than enthusiastic interest in Canvas is Microsoft, which like Adobe has its own web plugin architecture designed to replace web standards with proprietary binary code that requires a separate runtime. Microsoft will be protecting the interests of Silverlight by releasing Internet Explorer 9 with support for many HTML5 features but lacking an implementation of Canvas.

Canvas was developed by Apple within WebKit to power features like Dashboard widgets. It enables dynamic, scripted rendering of 2D graphics inside of an element that can be embedded in HTML.

Canvas was then adopted by Mozilla and Opera, after which Apple then submitted the technology to WHATWG to become part of the HTML5 specification. While based on Apple-patented technologies, the company has agreed to provide royalty-free patent licensing for Canvas technologies when it becomes part of the official W3C recommendation.

So when Brimelow says his company is "not looking to kill anything or anyone," it can only be because he's either unaware of (or working carefully not to say anything about) HTML5 Canvas. Brimelow might also be selectively forgetting that Adobe, and Macromedia before it, also did nothing for years to deliver either an optimized, functional Flash plugin for the Mac platform or to deliver a mobile version of Flash that actually worked prior to the success of the iPhone.

Brimelow concluded his post by insisting that he "will not be giving Apple another cent of my money until there is a leadership change over there," then announcing that he was not actually trying to organize a boycott, then ending with "go screw yourself Apple," before noting "comments disabled as Im not interested in hearing from the Cupertino Comment SPAM bots."

Mad about Apple

Brimelow isn't the only person at Adobe upset about Apple. The company has already warned its investors in SEC filings (cited by MacRumors from a Bloomberg report) that "to the extent new releases of operating systems or other third-party products, platforms or devices, such as the Apple iPhone or iPad, make it more difficult for our products to perform, and our customers are persuaded to use alternative technologies, our business could be harmed."

That same report cited Patrick Walravens, an analyst at JMP Securities in San Francisco, as saying, "Adobes goal has been to make it so people can create content once and it can be delivered across all platforms -- thats the pitch and Apple is trying to derail that effort."

Of course, the reality is that content for mobiles and desktop system and multitouch tablets simply can't be delivered by a "one size fits all" platform, which is why Apple has separate development targets and Human Interface Guidelines for the iPhone, iPad and the Mac.

The report also stated Adobe's position that "more than 96 percent of U.S. Web surfers have Flash installed on their computers, according to researcher StatOwl," without noting that the iPhone now accounts for more than 60% of all smartphone traffic globally, while the iPod touch accounts for nearly all (93%) of web traffic among "mobile Internet devices." It's not hard to guess that iPad will similarly account for most "tablet" web traffic.

Having locked up the PC browser market, Adobe has a very strong position in controlling how interactive content is delivered. But having no showing at all in the mobile properties Apple has created is a serious problem, one Adobe needs more than angry rhetoric to fight against.
post #2 of 274
suck it

Steve

Sent from my iPad
post #3 of 274
I've never seen a code generator that created halfway decent code. In order to create churn out multi-platform crap, you've got to work toward the lowest common denominator.

This IS NOT what Apple is about. If you want to write code to work efficiently in a constrained environment like a Smart Phone or iPod Touch, you've got to learn the tool set and conform to best practices.

Maybe it's harder, maybe it's a barrier to entry, but that's just the way it is.
post #4 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Having locked up the PC browser market, Adobe has a very strong position in controlling how interactive content is delivered. But having no showing at all in the mobile properties Apple has created is a serious problem, one Adobe needs more than angry rhetoric to fight against.

Adobe is now in BIG trouble. They are going down.
post #5 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

Adobe is now in BIG trouble. They are going down.

Future = Cloud
Cloud Access = Mobile Devices

Adobe = Toast
post #6 of 274
Well, it's his job on the line when people start using real dev environments instead of script city. As I have said, this will be settled easily. If Apple sells devices without Flash, and they fail in the marketplace, we might look into them not having Flash. But if Apple sells devices and they do fine on the market, then perhaps Adobe is full of BS when they tell us Flash is so important to the Internet.
post #7 of 274
The only way Adobe can pull off letting people use windows version of AIR to create iPhone app is those things are basically flash bundled with the runtime environment.

Now please go back to the drawing board, and make something that's not crap.
post #8 of 274
Seriously guys make some hardware and see if you will lets others run software on it. Adobe frankly doesn't get it. Flash is one of the web's worst ideas and should be allowed to die. Canvas, and Jquery are proof that Flash is like a 1990s pop song, eye candy, without purpose and crap. Adobe, you screwed mac users with CS suite interface built for the PC and "just" ported for mac, and now you want us mac users again? WE DONT WANT YOU.
post #9 of 274
Quite refreshing indeed!! A thread on AI where people can fight back and forth ad infinitum over the pros and cons of FLASH. Whheeeee!
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post #10 of 274
post #11 of 274
Brimelow's job title at Adobe is "Platform Evangelist"? That's hilarious.
post #12 of 274
Steve's iPad 'Garden of Perfection' will not be sullied with the stench of cross-compilers.

(It makes my life a little harder but its perfectly understandable)

All philosophical and business arguments aside, anybody who understands how the Cocoa frameworks function can see why they have done this. Pretty well everything you use (numbers, text, constants etc) has to be wrapped in a Cocoa object and that allows all sorts of magic to occur behind the scenes; now including multi-tasking, state saving etc. Cross compiled code breaks the object tracking and Apple are having none of it.
post #13 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Brimelow's job title at Adobe is "Platform Evangelist"? That's hilarious.

Yeah, basically a preacher for a company. Or some people call it sales representative.
post #14 of 274
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Originally Posted by cczaphod View Post

Future = Cloud
Cloud Access = Mobile Devices

Adobe = Toast

It's kinda sad though. Adobe wouldn't be toast at all if they just refocussed on what they actually claim to be their goals which is enabling professional content creators to create content on whatever platforms they need to in the most efficient, platform agnostic way possible. Today that means HTML 5 and delivering decent, reasonably priced content creation tools for Mac OS-X. They just aren't even trying to do that.

The ironic thing is that almost the only thing that will keep traditional desktop systems in existence is the fact that all the content *creation* (or the creation of any consequence at least), will still have to be done on desktop computers. This is Adobe's niche basically.

It's their choice as to whether they go down in flames, or simply do what they claim to want to do and live on. CS suite has sucked on the Mac for several years now and no competitors of any note have come forward yet (except perhaps Pixelmator). Adobe should consider themselves lucky that no one has ate their lunch to date and buckle down and do some real work for a change.
post #15 of 274
Adobe (and before Macromedia) has been flogging buggy versions of Flash player and equally buggy development tools to Mac users for years. They have always had a strong bias towards Windows and treated Mac users like second class citizens. I think it's great that Apple is standing up and saying F**k You we don't want your crap software anyway.
post #16 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fearing View Post

Well, it's his job on the line when people start using real dev environments instead of script city. As I have said, this will be settled easily. If Apple sells devices without Flash, and they fail in the marketplace, we might look into them not having Flash. But if Apple sells devices and they do fine on the market, then perhaps Adobe is full of BS when they tell us Flash is so important to the Internet.

Most consumers do not know what flash is. If you asked the average consumer the following questions you will probably get the following answers

1. Do you know that the iPhone/iPad will not play flash, I am willing to bet that 90% will give you a blank stare.

2. Do you know that you cannot current watch Hulu on the iPhone/iPad - 90% of the people would probably say no.

OTOH, I am willing to bet that more than a few people will be annoyed that they cannot play Flash video or games when they find out. However, I dont think it will be a deal breaker for many people because these are multipurpose devices.

Most people do not buy these items because of Flash/no Flash - it is simply not an issue for most people, because the devices do so much more than that.
post #17 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stashman View Post

Adobe (and before Macromedia) has been flogging buggy versions of Flash player and equally buggy development tools to Mac users for years. They have always had a strong bias towards Windows and treated Mac users like second class citizens. I think it's great that Apple is standing up and saying F**k You we don't want your crap software anyway.

The thing is, that is Adobe's decision because Flash is their product, just as Apple has the right to restrict what can and can't go on the iPhone or iPad.

I do not understand why people get so pissed at either Adobe or Apple when they make a business decision like this. It is their product to do with as they please, and if you do not like it, then buy a different product.
post #18 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

It's their choice as to whether they go down in flames, or simply do what they claim to want to do and live on. CS suite has sucked on the Mac for several years now and no competitors of any note have come forward yet (except perhaps Pixelmator). Adobe should consider themselves lucky that no one has ate their lunch to date and buckle down and do some real work for a change.

You are right, it is their choice, and if they choose to produce a second rate product for the Mac, why complain?

I doubt you would argue that Apple should be forced to allow low level graphics access for hardware acceleration to improve performance, so why should Adobe be forced to make a good Mac version if they do not want to.
post #19 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Brimelow's job title at Adobe is "Platform Evangelist"? That's hilarious.

Guy Kawasaki was an Apple Evangelist for many years.
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post #20 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by ihxo View Post

Yeah, basically a preacher for a company. Or some people call it sales representative.

Sort of. The first company "evangelist" that I know about was Guy Kawasaki, the Mac software evangelist for Apple during the '80s. His job was to convince developers to create software for the Mac. Since then the concept of a company evangelist has spread. The odd part is how far Brimelow seems to have wandered off the reservation. An evangelist is supposed to be upbeat and positive, to be a salesman and a sweet talker, to spread the "good word" about his company's products -- not to tear anybody a new one. They've got CEOs to do that, and lawyers if necessary. I'm going to guess that Brimelow's days at Adobe are numbered.
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post #21 of 274
I don't think we should automatically assume Apple has the upper-hand here. If Adobe's CS Suite wasn't available for the Mac platform, I bet a lot less people would be using the platform.

If Apple threaten Adobe's business, Adobe can do far more damage in reverse. Obviously it affects their business somewhat initially too but it won't be long-lasting.

I really don't see why there has to be such a huge problem - the tech industry always seems to fight towards problems than find solutions. Adobe are well known as the best company for content creation software. If they simply took on board Apple's Canvas addition to the HTML 5 spec and developed software like Flash but using Javascript instead of Actionscript, how would they lose money?

If anything, they'd make more money because designers would be able to build entire sites by themselves in the software without learning code and know that their site is standards compliant. Device manufacturers don't have to wait for hardware-acceleration support, they can build it in themselves.

It's not an overnight deal but if Adobe can change 60 million lines of code in one year in a CS update, they can pull this off too.

It may require converging Dreamweaver and software like the Flash app but it would help sell the CS 5 Suite way more than iPhone targeting from the Flash software. It should even be able to fulfill that role as they'd be able to publish apps that run on webkit's HTML 5 and Javascript interpreter and they will work on any HTML 5 compliant platform - Nexus One, Droid, iPhone, iPod, iPad, Blackberry, all netbooks/laptops/desktops running Chrome, Firefox, Opera, Safari and every OS - that's not more than the Flash install base (thanks once again Internet Explorer for the lack of standards support) but it's a big market and a potential way to kill IE too. Developers can all accelerate it as fast as they want, which is more than they can do with a Flash plugin.

Like I say, if they'd all just try and work together on this stuff, it would be easier in the end for publishers and consumers who are the only ones that really matter in all this. It's not about a pissing content between companies to see who actually has the last word, it's about providing business solutions that generate revenue and keep the web interesting and the constant bickering is helping no one.

Adobe's products are mostly closed off and that's not good for the future of the web, nor are plugins. It should never have been allowed to go this far to have nearly all web video dependent on a single company. Adobe just need to do the smartest thing and play along. They will come off better for it in the end.
post #22 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

You are right, it is their choice, and if they choose to produce a second rate product for the Mac, why complain?... why should Adobe be forced to make a good Mac version if they do not want to.

I'm not saying they should create better products (at least not in the sense of a direct imperative from me to them) of course it's totally up to them. I was just implying they are being stupid and lazy not to do so.

The reason to complain is pretty obvious though. Are you actually suggesting that no one should complain about anything ever? I don't understand why you would say "why complain?" It's semantic nonsense unless you just meant it in the shrug-of-the-shoulders, colloquial kind of way.
post #23 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post

suck it

Steve

Sent from my iPad

Very Funny!
post #24 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I'm not saying they should create better products (at least not in the sense of a direct imperative from me to them) of course it's totally up to them. I was just implying they are being stupid and lazy not to do so.

But we do not know if they are being stupid and lazy. You may think they are, and I may think they are, but for all we know, they may have looked at what it would take to optimize the code for Mac, looked at the size of the market, and decided that it was not worth it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

The reason to complain is pretty obvious though. Are you actually suggesting that no one should complain about anything ever? I don't understand why you would say "why complain?" It's semantic nonsense unless you just meant it in the shrug-of-the-shoulders, colloquial kind of way.

Some of it was colloquial and no I am not saying that one should not complain. However, if you buy a product knowing that it wont do X (or do X well), then you do not have much of a grounds for complaint. My hunch is that most of the posters on the board bought a Mac knowing about Flash on a Mac, and they bought the Mac anyway.
post #25 of 274
Flash is a CPU HOG! Good ridden. Our batteries will thank us the quicker we move on to better standards.
post #26 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Adobe just need to do the smartest thing and play along. They will come off better for it in the end.

They wont. Adobe wants OS layer control through flash eg: AIR future direction. having spent time with prior employees of Adobe related to flash dev I can tell you they think little of the mac and especially its users. Frankly were a bunch of fanatics to them, whist they would reason that they are trying to standardize the web. The WC3 standards are essentially free. Adobe is a closed corporation, and adobe is require to make a profit. Who do you trust. Adobe should have NEVER been allowed to buy Macromedia. Frankly I wish that Apple develops a nuclear option and kills Adobe, by getting Aperture to be a photoshop killer developing or licensing inkscape and buying CODA.
post #27 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by cczaphod View Post

I've never seen a code generator that created halfway decent code. In order to create churn out multi-platform crap, you've got to work toward the lowest common denominator.

This IS NOT what Apple is about. If you want to write code to work efficiently in a constrained environment like a Smart Phone or iPod Touch, you've got to learn the tool set and conform to best practices.

Maybe it's harder, maybe it's a barrier to entry, but that's just the way it is.

I could not agree more. And, if you took the easy route, alot of the time you can meet 90% of a basic experience, but the additional 10%, or god forbid you want to do something that is not supported by the generator, will take longer than it would have taken you to code it for real. And hope your don't have a bug, most of the time you won't know where to look.
post #28 of 274
Typed on my Flash-less iPhone:

This guy is a moe-ron!! I work for a large company and our mobile team got an iPad for development and testing. My manager who is not a big fan of Apple weeks ago said HTML5 is "years away" from adoption and we should keep using Flash, his boss didn't agree. Now my manager is changing hs tune about H5, but unwillingly. Like it or hate it, but Flash's uses are going down. Flash will be around for many years, but not as the primary tool. Did everyone watch the iPhone OS 4 keynote? What they showed with iAd was impressive from an H5 point. At my job we will need to support Flash for a long time, but we are in talks t start using HTML5 in the future.

As the article says Adobe tried to kill Flash back in 2000 or so, so I don't want to hear them cry the poor victim role. Back then I went to a seminar Adobe hosted and they demoed their 'Flash-killer' software, but no one was impressed and obviously most kept using Flash. The only way they could compete with Macromdia and Flash then was to buy 'em out. So shut-up Adobe, you got bested by Apple. Now they can either adapt or move on to something else. Go Steve - continue to push the envelope.
post #29 of 274
For the Adobe Evangelist to insist that Apple has to allow Adobe's CS5 to create apps that use Flash for the iPhone (et al) is the same as if Microsoft demanded that Apple stop using OS X and switch to Windows 7.

I agree with the several bloggers who stated that Adobe seems very nervous.
post #30 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I don't think we should automatically assume Apple has the upper-hand here. If Adobe's CS Suite wasn't available for the Mac platform, I bet a lot less people would be using the platform.

As I mentioned elsewhere, the last figures I've seen put the Photoshop installed base at something like 50% Mac. Of course, that's people who already own Adobe software, but how many platform agnostic people are buying brand new copies of CS?

Sure, they could gut it out by simply forcing anyone who wants to use their stuff to get a PC, but that would a) be a PR disaster the likes of which we have rarely seen in the software industry and b) represent a a near and mid term gutting of sales.

It's just not going to happen, no matter how pissed some people at Adobe might be at Apple's mobile strategies. All withdrawing CS from the Mac does is fuck up your desktop sales to go along with your mobile problems, because such a move certainly isn't going to force Apple to back down. Yes, it arguably hurts Apple more than Adobe in the long run, but that would be what is known as "cutting off your nose to spite your face."
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post #31 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

Adobe is now in BIG trouble. They are going down.

Have you heard of Photoshop? It's quite popular, quite dominant, has about 100% share of the graphic design market.

As for Flash, I'm with Adobe on this. Apple should just give people the option of installing a flash plug-in. Freedom is a beautiful thing, unless you're Steve Jobs, in which case, it's the enemy.
post #32 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mactastical View Post

Flash is a CPU HOG! Good ridden. Our batteries will thank us the quicker we move on to better standards.

It's not a CPU hog on Windows 7. Perhaps if Apple just worked with Adobe instead of attacking them then we could all have a well written flash plug-in for mobile Safari, or better still, for Fennec. (yes, I can dream)
post #33 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

It's not a CPU hog on Windows 7. Perhaps if Apple just worked with Adobe instead of attacking them then we could all have a well written flash plug-in for mobile Safari, or better still, for Fennec. (yes, I can dream)

No other developer seems to need special help to get their software to run well on OS X. Adobe is a large, rich developer. They have no excuse for their poor showing on platforms other than Windows (Specifically 7).

Adobe has had years to get its act together and produce top-notch software the way Apple, AVID, Microsoft and many other Adobe competitors have. Adobe dug their own grave by assuming they were invincible and consequently producing, for the most part, junk. And doing so in the laziest way they could muster.

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post #34 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

..Adobe's position that "more than 96 percent of U.S. Web surfers have Flash installed on their computers, according to researcher StatOwl,"

And in another year or two, 96% of U.S. Web surfers will use HTML5.

Sounds like evolution, not a revolution. What's the problem now?
post #35 of 274
Thank you AppleInsider for revealing the real battleground - which is HTML5's Canvas. Can we please talk more about that?

A very real concern is how long it will take for 2D animation (eg Canvas) in HTML5 to become a reality. If Microsoft blocks it by not putting it in their IE browser then that is the real blow - adobe is only a secondary problem with its efforts to block it in the HTML5 spec.

A solution i see is for Apple to enter some sort of agreement with Microsoft -> Microsoft you include Canvas in IE, back it in the HTML5 spec and you can make tools for it and we will give you default search for Bing or something like that.

Also i would like to know more on the state of HTML5's open video spec - mostly as it relates to MS.
post #36 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

It's not a CPU hog on Windows 7. Perhaps if Apple just worked with Adobe instead of attacking them then we could all have a well written flash plug-in for mobile Safari, or better still, for Fennec. (yes, I can dream)

Apple doesn't NEED to work with them. everything they need is in the API. Adobe's programmers just need to read the documentations in xCode.

Or you are saying that Apple should send a team of teachers over, and teach them how to program?

Actually Adobe can just send some of their programmers over to Standford to take the iPhone programming class, it's pretty comprehensive.
post #37 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post

suck it

Steve

Sent from my iPad

I literally laughed 'till I cried after reading this one! Bravo, AdamIiGS!

I am truly shocked that this "evangelist" made such a public display of himself while using his his company's blog to stage a tantrum! Unprofessional and embarrassing, this rant will no doubt come back to haunt him. He even turned comments off as if to say, "I'm taking my ball and going home"!

As for Adobe... I work in research and have used Mac and Linux frequently throughout the past decade and a half. Adobe, since buying flash, would always drag their feet in releasing updates for these "lesser" platforms. That is, until the iPhone came out.

Adobe could very well have set the standard with flash, but, as Jobs has said and many have echoed, they are "lazy" and innovation or setting standards were of no interest to them until they stood to lose something.

Bring on H5.
post #38 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by cczaphod View Post

I've never seen a code generator that created halfway decent code. In order to create churn out multi-platform crap, you've got to work toward the lowest common denominator.

You know, all compilers are code generators. Apple's Objective-C compiler is ultimately just a code generator for C (it was even implemented that way for a long time), and a C compiler is just a code generator for assembly (most compilers are still implemented this way), and an assembler is just a code generator for binary executables. Apple should require all apps be written directly in ARM's Thumb instruction set for the best native iPhone experience!

Kidding aside, there is a difference between using different programming languages to write native apps, and using shoddy multi-platform compatibility layers to avoid writing native apps. I hate the latter as much as Apple, but prohibiting the former to try to stop the latter is unnecessary and harmful to Apple's platform--and to computer science progress towards more stable, efficient, maintainable programs in general.
post #39 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Have you heard of Photoshop? It's quite popular, quite dominant, has about 100% share of the graphic design market.

I certainly wouldn't say 100% share. Don't forget people are still using CorelDraw, Paint Shop Pro, and Pixelmator is rapidly becoming one to watch in the design market.

Photoshop isn't the be all and end all paint app at all and when you look at what Pixelmator is doing using Apple's APIs then you realise that if it can match Photoshop in terms of features then Photoshop will become dead in the water. Who's going to buy Photoshop then when they can get an app that screams on the Mac, can read and write Photoshop files, and has the same feature set and yet costs $100(NZ) as opposed to $1,449.95(NZ)?
post #40 of 274
I love all things Apple. I use OSX all day and really love it. I promote Macs to all of my friends in an effort to get them off of the nightmare that is Windows. I own an iPhone. I will be buying an iPad. And I want Apple to go fsck them selves right now.

It is like Apple is the political party and the fanboys are all reading from the same talking points memo: Kill Flash! Kill Adobe! Before Apple took up the cause, did any of these guys spend more than 10 seconds arguing that flash should be dealt a death blow? Answer: no. They may have been annoyed at the cpu usage, but I assure you the vitriolic nature of their anti-flash crusade has all the earmarks of a political witch-hunt managed by the overlords and carried out by the unthinking sheep.

I have no love for flash and will be happy when it is gone... but I am also trying to develop an iPhone app using Appcelerator Titanium (something that will be banned by the a$$hats at Apple under this new clause). I am not a programmer by trade (and tried and failed to learn objective-C). Javascript makes iPhone development something that is accessible to the casual programmer and that is something that is democratizing. And before you all read from your next talking point and tell me that there is a minimum standard of quality that can only be attained by using pure objective-C, I refer you to iFart or any one of 10,000 other completely unremarkable apps that grace the app store.

I have a unique idea for an iPhone app and want the opportunity to try my hand at developing it. But Apple somehow has it in for Flash (and maybe Android with whom I could cross-compile my app) and so has taken me out as collateral damage.

And now all of you can pile on in defense of "every thing Apple does is perfect" but honestly... if Microsoft had done this in the 1990's (and they did plenty of this kind of crap back then) you would all be howling "unfair" - and did no doubt.

Apple fan. And Apple hater right now.
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