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Adobe evangelist lashes out at Apple over iPhone 4.0 - Page 4

post #121 of 274
4/10/10 at 6:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Oh give me a break! This is simply pure FUD. Last time I checked, there is Android, RIM, WinMo, Palm, Symbian, etc. Nice that you conveniently left that part out eh? Besides, with the way the Android boys are kicking, Android will overtake the iPhone by when????? This time next Thursday? Then, you can sleep nice knowing open source (and the world) was victorious over closed, "safe", and proprietary toasters.

And least the news psot disagress with you

Quote:
The report also stated Adobe's position that "more than 96 percent of U.S. Web surfers have Flash installed on their computers, according to researcher StatOwl," without noting that the iPhone now accounts for more than 60% of all smartphone traffic globally, while the iPod touch accounts for nearly all (93%) of web traffic among "mobile Internet devices." It's not hard to guess that iPad will similarly account for most "tablet" web traffic.

More than 60% for Smartphone
93% of the mobile internet market (by traffic, but that should imply a huge market share)
And with iPhone 4, iPhone OS 4.0 on the Horizon and the iPad just release, I am quite sure, that those numbers will grow quite a bit. (At least in my Opinion, because they bring exactly what's been missing up to now)

So using this market position to directly harm competitors (in this case Adobe etc) or indirectly (App Devs, without cross compilers, will develope for the biggest product group, i.e. iPhone OS in this case, limiting the Offer for other products, thus damaging them. Those who are willing to do the extra work for more than one platform are rare) is, at least as far as I think, worth an anti trust lawsuit
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post #122 of 274
4/10/10 at 6:50am
Quote:
they lost to Windows a long time ago.

No. We didn't. We aren't beaten. We didn't wither up and die like Adobe thought we would.

We're still here. Better than ever. We ceded alot of marketshare working ourselves up for a battle royal...for the greatest business comeback in history.

The best designed computers which are state of the art museum pieces, the best Os, the best intuitive, easy to use software, the best philosophy, the best ethos, the only company that does the whole widget, the harmony of software and hardware. Selling more Macs than ever before. The best AIOs in the business, THE laptops... None of which would have happened if Apple had become Monopoly that M$ did.

We would have lost if Apple had become M$.

Apple are still in business. Selling more of everything they make. It's not all about marketshare. Apple have won the battle and the argument of what computers SHOULD be with their computer products. Hands down as their dollar market share proves.

I watched the iPhone OS 4 keynote. And I came away thinking. Who else does it like Apple?

No one. They're not always first.

But hats off, they do it with style and panche.

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #123 of 274
4/10/10 at 6:52am
Some people say what if Adobe Pulls the plug on a mac version of its suite. If this happens it would loose 90% of its business. A lot of design agency's spent thousands of dollars to use mac as their core systems. What I do think is that apple would probably buy a struggling company like Quark revamp it and crush adobe In-Design. Almost all of adobe's applications are written using bloated code. Adobe needs to stop basing their core business on FLASH only. You don't need a plug-in anymore to play video or even to do 3d graphics. Once webgl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL is finished Adobe will be finished with FLASH.
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post #124 of 274
4/10/10 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

Apple is now a mobile device company. I expect to see them deempahasize the desktop line. they lost to Windows a long time ago.

Both lines are merging.

And Apple has the jump on everyone else in transitioning to the next level of "computing."

This is all according to plan in Cupertino. Apple has the entire industry figured out for the next decade. Believe it.
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post #125 of 274
4/10/10 at 6:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargatesg1 View Post

Some people say what if Adobe Pulls the plug on a mac version of its suite. If this happens it would loose 90% of its business. A lot of design agency's spent thousands of dollars to use mac as their core systems. What I do think is that apple would probably buy a struggling company like Quark revamp it and crush adobe In-Design. Almost all of adobe's applications are written using bloated code. Adobe needs to stop basing their core business on FLASH only. You don't need a plug-in anymore to play video or even to do 3d graphics. Once webgl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebGL is finished Adobe will be finished with FLASH.

Quark. An interesting point. I think they'd be available much cheaper than back in the day. Go on, Adobe, call Apple's bluff. They daren't. Their share price would plummet.

Apple would give them one helluva beating.

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #126 of 274
4/10/10 at 6:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ncee View Post

How about FreeHand! Man this is and or was an OUTSTANDING Vector based drawing program.

I and MANY others were very disappointed when it wasn't sold off separately when MacroMedia sold to Adobe.

Speak of monopoly - I was surprise the government didn't make adobe sell it, so as to make sure they didn't have a monopoly in this area.

FreeHand and Illustrator went back and forth over the years, as to which one was best. A good fight for users as it brought about great changes in both applications.

I for one, will only go as high on the Mac OS, as to allow me to still use FreeHand, as it is the application I use most to make a living.

Yes, I am working at learning Illustrator, but don't like being FORCED to do so.

In any case, let the fun begin

Skip

I use both Freehand and Illustrator. I'm happy enough with the latest Illustrator but your point shows that Adobe isn't unbeatable. I personally like and still use Quark. I used to use Freehand until they shut down. And that basically left Photoshop as the Adobe app I bought. Now I pretty much buy the CS suites which continue to go up in price and offer little new stuff that I need. We get one big new feature now, like what we see in CS5 being able to smartly remove junk from a scene. And that's supposed to be enough to get us to ditch CS4 and replace everything with CS5. I have 3 macs. That's at least two licenses to buy. That's another $1,600 for me. And this goes on every 18 months. I'm sick of it.

I'd love to see Apple hire a bunch of the old team who created Freehand and build their own Illustrator killer. I'd like to see Apple build something that goes directly after Photoshop. Something build on new code, not this code base that goes all the way back to code warrior days.

Do we really need adobe, which is more interested in PC acrobat for business and cold fusion? They truly stick it to us. You'll see. CS5 is coming. Prepare to open your wallets again to the tune of $800 for the update which will give you one new good feature and far more bloat.

MacBook Pro | iPad (3rd gen)
Samsung Galaxy Note

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MacBook Pro | iPad (3rd gen)
Samsung Galaxy Note

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post #127 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:04am
Quote:
'd love to see Apple hire a bunch of the old team who created Freehand and build their own Illustrator killer. I'd like to see Apple build something that goes directly after Photoshop. Something build on new code, not this code base that goes all the way back to code warrior days.

Do we really need adobe, which is more interested in PC acrobat for business and cold fusion? They truly stick it to us. You'll see. CS5 is coming. Prepare to open your wallets again to the tune of $800 for the update which will give you one new good feature and far more bloat.

Applauds the post.*

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #128 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grking View Post

I doubt you would argue that Apple should be forced to allow low level graphics access for hardware acceleration to improve performance...

Just for the record, this thing about how Adobe can't make Flash perform properly without direct hardware access is a lie spread by the subject of this article. Just for the record, Flash performance sucks because Adobe's code sucks.
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post #129 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

actually it was pretty common for people to complain about flash hogging the cpu and being responsible for most crashes. .

But mostly, Adobe is lazy. They should just get off of their butts for a change and fix it!
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post #130 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfoalex View Post

I use both Freehand and Illustrator. I'm happy enough with the latest Illustrator but your point shows that Adobe isn't unbeatable. I personally like and still use Quark. I used to use Freehand until they shut down. And that basically left Photoshop as the Adobe app I bought. Now I pretty much buy the CS suites which continue to go up in price and offer little new stuff that I need. We get one big new feature now, like what we see in CS5 being able to smartly remove junk from a scene. And that's supposed to be enough to get us to ditch CS4 and replace everything with CS5. I have 3 macs. That's at least two licenses to buy. That's another $1,600 for me. And this goes on every 18 months. I'm sick of it.

I'd love to see Apple hire a bunch of the old team who created Freehand and build their own Illustrator killer. I'd like to see Apple build something that goes directly after Photoshop. Something build on new code, not this code base that goes all the way back to code warrior days.

Do we really need adobe, which is more interested in PC acrobat for business and cold fusion? They truly stick it to us. You'll see. CS5 is coming. Prepare to open your wallets again to the tune of $800 for the update which will give you one new good feature and far more bloat.

Freehand was Amazing. Never crashed. When you run Fireworks and Illustrator together Illustrator Crashes. I am a web developer I really Didn't like photochop to begin with. I use Fireworks to do most of my layouts. I find Photochop is only great for photo-editing but LAZY people didn't want to bother learning Fireworks.
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post #131 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Applauds the post.*

Lemon Bon Bon.

Check out the YouTube videos comparing Freehand to Illustrator. Priceless!
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post #132 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

Freedom is beautiful thing, but sometimes people need to be controlled so that the end result, they do enjoy their freedom and don't get frustrated by situations that could have been controlled with a little outside help.

That is why marijuana is illegal. People need to be controlled so they can enjoy their freedom.
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post #133 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Check out the YouTube videos comparing Freehand to Illustrator. Priceless!

Yeah, Quadra. I know Freehand had it's fans. Shame it was discontinued? I always thought Illustrator was slow and bloated. I thought Xara handed it its ass in raw speed.

Adobe buying Macromedia didn't pan out too well. We lost alot of good programs on both sides. Reduced competition...shame.

Adobe forgot where they've come from.

I'll check out the YouTube videos, thanks for that, Quadra.

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #134 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil View Post

Adobe should had thought about that in 2001 when it decided to support the Window OS all out and leave Apple and the Mac users behind.

It is WAY too late for Adobe now!

Bye bye, Adobe!
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post #135 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfoalex View Post

I use both Freehand and Illustrator. I'm happy enough with the latest Illustrator but your point shows that Adobe isn't unbeatable. I personally like and still use Quark. I used to use Freehand until they shut down. And that basically left Photoshop as the Adobe app I bought. Now I pretty much buy the CS suites which continue to go up in price and offer little new stuff that I need. We get one big new feature now, like what we see in CS5 being able to smartly remove junk from a scene. And that's supposed to be enough to get us to ditch CS4 and replace everything with CS5. I have 3 macs. That's at least two licenses to buy. That's another $1,600 for me. And this goes on every 18 months. I'm sick of it.

I'd love to see Apple hire a bunch of the old team who created Freehand and build their own Illustrator killer. I'd like to see Apple build something that goes directly after Photoshop. Something build on new code, not this code base that goes all the way back to code warrior days.

Do we really need adobe, which is more interested in PC acrobat for business and cold fusion? They truly stick it to us. You'll see. CS5 is coming. Prepare to open your wallets again to the tune of $800 for the update which will give you one new good feature and far more bloat.

If you think CS5 is pricey, price out the latest Quark products. Also their latest and greatest QuarkXPress 8 brags about Flash and Web support. Quark realizes they need Flash to survive.
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post #136 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by amitofu View Post

They are forbidding developers from taking advantage of any computer science progress made in the last 30 years in developing their native, iPhone/iPad only apps.

Dramatic, but totally over the top nonsense.
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post #137 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:17am
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wil
Adobe should had thought about that in 2001 when it decided to support the Window OS all out and leave Apple and the Mac users behind.
It is WAY too late for Adobe now!

Bye bye, Adobe!

Poetic justice.

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #138 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangles View Post

It just makes you wonder what industry is about to be Appleised next. TV anyone?

It is already. Most people just buy a season pass for their favorite programs instead of trying to screw around with their DVR.
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post #139 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

One question I have re HTML 5 is whether there are any products out there to facilitate the creation of content? Noone seems to have addressed this point. If not, then saying "use html5" is akin to giving someone a screwdriver, some ply, and a saw and telling some one to build a box. Flash development I suspect would already have the box defined and you would declare its dimensions.

If you want to be lazy, use Flash. But don't expect us to look at your site on our Apple products!
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post #140 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Ambivalent View Post

The power that the apps store and APIs give Apple will be hard to not abuse.

Apple is not a conspiracy theory.

Apple wants nothing except a good experience for their customers.
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post #141 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

Apple developed OSX to run on Intel processors years before actually moving the whole Mac line to Intel Inside.

Just as a point of historical accuracy, it was running on Intel hardware when Apple bought NeXT. They basically ported it over to PPC, but kept the original Intel version mostly current. So, when they made the switch back to Intel, it was no big deal, especially since they had also done this same thing (supporting two active installed bases) before when switching from Motorola 68K to Intel.
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post #142 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

Apple is not a conspiracy theory.

Apple wants nothing except a good experience for their customers.

Because ultimately, this and ONLY this will ensure Apple's continued success.

The proof in in the (Apple) pudding.
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post #143 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

Dell, M$, Google and Adobe.

Notice a theme?
Jobs is going after them, gunning them down, one by one.

And with Job's finger on that trigger, they will all die horrible bloody deaths.

And we will rejoice.
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post #144 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

Wow, just wow.

Apple are out competing Adobe how exactly? Flash has near 100% penetration on PCs. Photoshop totally dominates the graphic design market.

Google dominates search. Android is a far more advanced OS than even iPhone OS 4, and Android market share is rapidly rising.

And as for MS... oh come on. Think before you type.

Jobs is gunning them down, one by one!
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post #145 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avidfcp View Post

Adobe After Effects are used on nearly 90% macs for tv and film. If Adobe pulled the plug, Apple would for sure HEAR ABOUT IT.

Adobe needs Apple a LOT more than Apple needs Adobe.

Apple should be the one to pull the plug! And then we could all watch Adobe slowly circle the drain...
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post #146 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:46am
With the presence Flash has on the internet Adobe has a real opportunity to provide tools to build Flash apps AND HTML5 apps. Think of Dreamweaver but for web apps instead just web sites. The tools could pump out either format. Those tools would truly be as popular as Photoshop. Just think of the devs flocking in droves to those tools to port there Flash apps to HTML5 so their apps support mobile devices as well. Adobe doesn't own the JPG, PNG or TIFF format and they are doing great with Photoshop. Adobe stop complaining and seize the day!!
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post #147 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

Adobe needs Apple a LOT more than Apple needs Adobe.

Apple should be the one to pull the plug! And then we could all watch Adobe slowly circle the drain...

Look at how far Pixelmator has come already:

http://www.pixelmator.com/

And it's just a few guys working on it.
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post #148 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:47am
Quote:
Jobs is gunning them down, one by one!



Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #149 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Ambivalent View Post

[...] It is the amount of control that Apple seems to take to protect us all that has me scared to death.

You know, this whole "control" thing is like airport security. Before there was airport security (Mac OS) people were constantly hijacking planes and taking them to Cuba, holding hostages, etc. So Apple instituted airport security (iPhone OS/App Store) to prevent hijackings. But the hijackers kept looking for ways around airport security (Google Voice/Adobe Flash to iPhone) so Apple has to tighten the security to prevent hijackings.

Quote:
First they seem to have an arbitrary selection process for there apps store. Second they seem to have one set of APIs for them to develop apps and another APIs for everyone else. This creates a situation that allows them to take over any market some other developer creates. This is very similar to what MS did. The power that the apps store and APIs give Apple will be hard to not abuse.

... And sometimes airport security has to adjust on the fly to new threats. Your point about different sets of APIs is overblown, though. There will always be some functions of the plane that the business class passengers are not allowed to control. Apple has to get everyone to their destination, so, allowing everyone access to the rudder creates the risk of the plane being diverted off course.
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post #150 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It's all part of the plan.

Apple's making a key transition here. They're among the first to start leaving behind the old "operating system on a computer" paradigm.

Desktops in their current form will be dead. Retail outlets can hardly move them as it is.

Risky. Ballsy. And incredibly inspiring. THIS is how the industry moves forward.

100% correct. Apple has announce it at least twice.

Apple is no longer a computer company, but instead is a mobile device company.
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post #151 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:52am
[QUOTE=Apple Ambivalent;1609795]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaypres View Post


Apple is getting very close to a monopoly in mobile operating systems. If they keep having the success that they have had, it won't be long.

What are you talking about?

Last I checked Nokia's OS and RIM's aging dog of an OS had far more share than Apple's iPhone OS.

And a monopoly isn't a problem. It's what you do with it that determines whether regulators go after you. Monopolies are fine. Abusing that position is not.
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post #152 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

So stupid. We are collateral damage as a developer here said. I wanted to get into iPhone apps a bit even and the Flash development environment sounded like a great friggin idea. My programmer colleagues universally seem to detest Obj-C. Big time.

You and your "colleagues" should move ahead, and not stay mired in the past. Only lazy developers don't like Objective C.
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post #153 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:56am
I use CS4 Master on Apple platform. I love this combination. I also write a lot of my own code in Dreamweaver most of the time but love a lot of the time saving features. Why would someone pay you to build their sites if you don't know how to control your code. They could just use simple code generators and pre-made templates. Adobe is not going anywhere. They will adapt to H5. Flash will also be useful for many years. Learn Javascript AND Actionscript. You will not waste time learning object oriented programming.

Individual evangelists will get a little over the top on either side just like Dems vs Repubs and their idiotic rhetoric.

There is actually only one true evangelist because the only Good News is that Jesus Christ died for you!

God Bless!
Yeshua Hamashia Mashiach
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Yeshua Hamashia Mashiach
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post #154 of 274
4/10/10 at 7:57am
Just been looking at the Pixelator info' page.

Phew. It's quite feature rich. I may buy this. Impressive.

With another few point releases...

Lemon Bon Bon.
You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...[/
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post #155 of 274
4/10/10 at 8:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

No. We didn't. We aren't beaten. We didn't wither up and die like Adobe thought we would.

"The desktop computer industry is dead. Innovation has virtually ceased. Microsoft dominates with very little innovation. That's over. Apple lost. "

--Steve Jobs
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post #156 of 274
4/10/10 at 8:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

My programmer colleagues universally seem to detest Obj-C. Big time.

The only thing more like a religious war than the Mac vs Windows debate is the debate over programming languages. Of course they detest Objective-C, they aren't Objective-C programmers.
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post #157 of 274
4/10/10 at 8:05am
Also don't fall for idiots saying Apple will stop being a computer company. You can't develop high end rich internet apps on an iPad. You need an actual type on a real keyboard, put your files in folders computer. Apple will ALWAYS provide them. They actually can do more than one thing at once.
Yeshua Hamashia Mashiach
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Yeshua Hamashia Mashiach
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post #158 of 274
4/10/10 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stargatesg1 View Post

Some people say what if Adobe Pulls the plug on a mac version of its suite. If this happens it would loose 90% of its business.

Creative Suite for the Mac is 90% of Adobe's business! So who has more to lose - Adobe or Apple?
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post #159 of 274
4/10/10 at 8:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthur_Klok View Post

You and your "colleagues" should move ahead, and not stay mired in the past. Only lazy developers don't like Objective C.

Who else uses Objective C besides Apple?
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post #160 of 274
4/10/10 at 8:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShepherd View Post

Who else uses Objective C besides Apple?

You mean there are other people out there besides Apple followers?
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