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The real reason for Obama's loss in popularity... - Page 3

post #81 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Well, they loved Bill, too, and hated George W.

Maybe, they are looking at us from an objective point of view... nah... couldn't be!

Probably not. Wouldn't place heavy bets on that.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #82 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Probably not. Wouldn't place heavy bets on that.

I think Europe in the main sees America for what it is.

But my initial point has been corrupted though: I referenced the Germans. Somehow this got turned into 'Europe'.

Germany is an interesting case precisely because it is not replicated elsewhere in Europe.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #83 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I think Europe in the main sees America for what it is.

But my initial point has been corrupted though: I referenced the Germans. Somehow this got turned into 'Europe'.

Germany is an interesting case precisely because it is not replicated elsewhere in Europe.

I apologize for conflating those two. That's partly my fault.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #84 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And yes now we have another much worse jobless recovery for a much worse recession that started during guess who's administration?

What about that SDW? This all started while Bush was in office. Also in my question to trumptman I said he could still hold his opinions about Obama and it didn't require ( or was an attempt to trick him into ) a change of position. It was only about being for recovery no matter what. So what is it you think you've got?

Dude all you've got is thin air. You guys really think you've latched on to something here but you're totally derailing this thread trying to get back at me for catching trumpy on his partisan attitude. Talk about the topic. You guys look extra silly.

Your first point is a pretty standard talking point. When Obama's policies are criticized, democrats often parrot the line: "But, this started under Bush!"

There are two problems with that response, however. First, it's a non-sequitur. It has nothing to do with the actions that have been undertaken in the past 18 months, all of which have hampered recovery or will hamper growth in years to come.

Secondly, everyone agrees the recession started under Bush, so you're arguing something about which there is no argument. No one here is blaming Obama for the recession starting (at least, not that I've read). Those that blame Bush are just scoring political points--and are unable to identify policies that caused the recession anyway.

jimmac, the point is that you looked at one set of economic data under Bush and concluded that the economy was not "good." But now, you're looking at economic data under Obama--data that unquestionably indicates a weaker economy--and pronouncing that we're on our way to a robust recovery. We read no complaints about unemployment, the working poor, state-by-state unemployment, etc. These complaints were ubiquitous during the Bush years, despite an objectively better economy.

Edit: Here is some unemployment data from your home state.

In Nov. 2004, Oregon unemployment was 6.7% compared to a national rate of 5.2% (not adjusted for season).

(http://www.employment.oregon.gov/EMP...02-53-2004.pdf)

In March 2010, Oregon unemployment stood at 11.7%, with a national average of 10.2%.

(http://www.employment.oregon.gov/EMP...02-2010-14.pdf)



Anyone who posted here will recall you constantly harping on how things weren't as good as they should be. You cited, specifically, Oregon unemployment data. So how can things be better now?
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post #85 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I apologize for conflating those two. That's partly my fault.

Me too. Why do germans love Obama?
post #86 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Me too. Why do germans love Obama?

Because he's president of the U.S. vs. Germany?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #87 of 98
Hey there everyone!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36487823...-capitol_hill/

Quote:
Democrat wins Fla. House race
GOP hoped to make special election a referendum on health care reform

Quote:
With 51 percent of precincts reporting, The Associated Press called the race for Deutch, who had 61 percent of the vote compared to 36 percent for Republican underdog Ed Lynch. No-party candidate Jim McCormick trailed far behind with just 3 percent.

Florida.

Happy Weekend!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #88 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hey there everyone!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36487823...-capitol_hill/





Florida.

Happy Weekend!

You might have been hoping that no one would read the article or do a more in-depth analysis of this situation and simply take at face value the implication that a Republican running on the health care bill issue and losing to a Democrat is a clear indictment of this mindset and strategy. But how about we pull this apart a little and see if such an analysis holds up to further scrutiny.

What do we have here?

We have a Republican running against a Democrat in a heavily Democratic district ("District 19, which includes parts of Broward and Palm Beach counties. About 40 percent of voters are senior citizens. But he had a tough task. Democrats outnumber Republicans by more than 2-to-1 234,000 to about 111,000.") It is also a district that heavily favors Obama already ("Wexler, a self-proclaimed "fire-breathing liberal," left office in January during his seventh congressional term to head a Middle East think tank. He was hugely popular in the district, which voted about 65 percent for Obama in 2008. Wexler, of Boca Raton, had endorsed Deutch.") Finally, the previous Democratic representative was a hugely popular in the district and endorsed the new Democratic candidate.

While this might be an early indication that such a anti-ObamaCare strategy will not work. I would wait to see what happens in more balanced "swing districts".

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #89 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

People will vote with their wallets. Once they see no Death panels, HCR is working fine, and the economy is looking up you know which way they'll go. Now if we had a big downturn between now and then that would all change. But I don't see that happening.

You're essentially right. The unwise expansion and use of presidential powers under Bush have since become the rigorously applied expanded powers under Obama. The pain will be delayed until after the next election and by then it will be too late.

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GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #90 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You might have been hoping that no one would read the article or do a more in-depth analysis of this situation and simply take at face value the implication that a Republican running on the health care bill issue and losing to a Democrat is a clear indictment of this mindset and strategy. But how about we pull this apart a little and see if such an analysis holds up to further scrutiny.

What do we have here?

We have a Republican running against a Democrat in a heavily Democratic district ("District 19, which includes parts of Broward and Palm Beach counties. About 40 percent of voters are senior citizens. But he had a tough task. Democrats outnumber Republicans by more than 2-to-1 234,000 to about 111,000.") It is also a district that heavily favors Obama already ("Wexler, a self-proclaimed "fire-breathing liberal," left office in January during his seventh congressional term to head a Middle East think tank. He was hugely popular in the district, which voted about 65 percent for Obama in 2008. Wexler, of Boca Raton, had endorsed Deutch.") Finally, the previous Democratic representative was a hugely popular in the district and endorsed the new Democratic candidate.

While this might be an early indication that such a anti-ObamaCare strategy will not work. I would wait to see what happens in more balanced "swing districts".

"The American People are against Healthcare reform."
"Democrats will pay a heavy price" as shown here.
Rush Limp-ouch lives in Florida, he couldn't help his boy?
All the older folks didn't get scared enough of the death panels?
Armageddon was delayed by a volcanic ash cloud?
No more Scott Brown syndrome?
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post #91 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hey there everyone!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36487823...-capitol_hill/





Florida.

Happy Weekend!


He's from Boca in PALM BEACH COUNTY. Not exactly a GOP stronghold. I wouldn't get too excited.
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #92 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

"The American People are against Healthcare reform."
"Democrats will pay a heavy price" as shown here.
Rush Limp-ouch lives in Florida, he couldn't help his boy?
All the older folks didn't get scared enough of the death panels?
Armageddon was delayed by a volcanic ash cloud?
No more Scott Brown syndrome?

You can't possibly be suggesting that this Dem. victory in a heavily Dem district is indicative of nationwide or even statewide voter sentiment, can you? Have you seen the polls on Crist v. Rubio for Senate? Rubio was down double digits in Dec. He's now up 22 points.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...mary-1064.html
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #93 of 98
I think it most interesting that the rightwingers here chose to jump on this point and not my other post in the Tea Party thread which actually says a lot more about the future of the GOP. Something they should pay attention to if they want to survive.

Still ( while early ) the Florida victory was interesting ( and a bit telling ).
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #94 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Still ( while early ) the Florida victory was interesting ( and a bit telling ).

What is interesting and telling about it?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #95 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

What is interesting and telling about it?

It tells us that jimmac is a blind partisan that will cling to whatever he's told.
post #96 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

What is interesting and telling about it?

My questions exactly. What I'm saying is that it's not interesting nor telling. That's the point.


jimmac?
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post #97 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

My questions exactly. What I'm saying is that it's not interesting nor telling. That's the point.


jimmac?

It just that MJ was just saying votes in Florida would be hard to come by for Obama.

I didn't answer him because he's on ignore and I wouldn't have seen his post if you hadn't copied it in yours.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #98 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It just that MJ was just saying votes in Florida would be hard to come by for Obama.

Huh Where did I say that? Show us the post.

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