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Apple releases new MacBook Pros with Intel Core i7, i5 processors - Page 7

post #241 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh.B. View Post

"Oh, the food there is terrible! And such small servings!"

It's more like saying "we didn't get any service when we went to that restaurant! We just sat there for an hour and left. Oh and the service there is really slow."
post #242 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by jukes View Post

Wikipedia doesn't think that the 2.4 GHz i5s have working AES units.

Even if they did, does FileVault take advantage of hardware acceleration?
post #243 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

The more time moves on the less I care about Blue Ray. I have yet to buy a BR disc or player. I am hoping to just skip the BR years and go straight to digital.

This digital thing you talk about had been available for years, maybe you have heard of VCD, SVCD, DVD etc?
post #244 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

This digital thing you talk about had been available for years, maybe you have heard of VCD, SVCD, DVD etc?

Real nice. I think we all know I was talking straight to download like iTunes. But if you didn't, now you do.
Hard-Core.
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Hard-Core.
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post #245 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

I was worried about that too, but I was just in an Apple Store that still had the older MacBook Pros on display - even on the older ones it was called "anti-glare" and not matte, at least on their signs.

They didn't have any new ones out yet, so I couldn't actually look at it to see if it was the same.

Anti-glare is more descriptive than matte. it's pure marketing.
But I'll take Ant-glare over glossy any day. That's why I bought a ViewSonic pro 26" 1920 x 1200 monitor over an Apple.

Apple lost my $700, but they clearly don't seem to care.
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post #246 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kung Fu Guy View Post

No blueray, no hdmi, no full keyboard, no fair price! And I'm a mac user! Come on apple. 1799 for a low end i5? Show some competitive pricing. The MBP i5/i7 are priced like a some rare gem stone. i5/i7 are plentiful and priced less than 1500 on the pc. Fail

Please spare us the trollery.

If you spec out a Dell POS equally, it would probably cost more AND the worst part? You'd be stuck with Windows or Ubuntu. Sorry, but Hackintosh is for dorks.

No thanks.
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post #247 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I've read good review about this.

Apple has announced that they would be discontinuing screen film things like that from the Apple Store. I'm not sure if that applies to this, but it does seem a bit silly.

Apple DOES have BTO options, but why not add a few more options?

I noticed that there are NO 7200rpm hard drive options for the 13" MBP. If they're talking about adding performance enhancements, this is one of the simplest and cheapest and best all-around system speed-ups.
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post #248 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

Please spare us the trollery.

If you spec out a Dell POS equally, it would probably cost more AND the worst part? You'd be stuck with Windows or Ubuntu. Sorry, but Hackintosh is for dorks.

No thanks.

I would love to see some current comparisons to other vendor's comparable notebooks now that Apple has Core-ix shipping
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post #249 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

Apple has announced that they would be discontinuing screen film things like that from the Apple Store. I'm not sure if that applies to this, but it does seem a bit silly.

Apple DOES have BTO options, but why not add a few more options?

I noticed that there are NO 7200rpm hard drive options for the 13" MBP. If they're talking about adding performance enhancements, this is one of the simplest and cheapest and best all-around system speed-ups.

I thought that was just for their iDevices due to the touchscreen and usage patterns.

The BTO option for AG on the 15" is now $150 since you are also required to get the higher-res panel. The 17" MBP is still only $50 more since it only comes in one resolution.

7200RPM would be nice, but I'd have preferred to see higher capacity HDDs instead. I'd also have liked to see more options with SSD brands, but that does go against Apple's focus on simplicity.
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post #250 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub View Post

Real nice. I think we all know I was talking straight to download like iTunes. But if you didn't, now you do.

Not really, if they are referring to digital downloads, it isn't that hard to add the word download, or distributed in there as well.
post #251 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

High end = Core i7.

Yessssss

Now my IMac 27" will have someone to play with!
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post #252 of 335
Anyone care to speculate on the SSD vs these HDs for the 17"? What would the REAL advantages/drawbacks be for differing kinds of work?
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post #253 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I would love to see some current comparisons to other vendor's comparable notebooks now that Apple has Core-ix shipping

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+V...&skuId=9723951

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+V...&skuId=9705382

Both are Vaio's and have been available for months. The first has a Core i5-520M, Nvidia 330M, 1600x900 14" screen, BR, 4 GB DDR3, BT, 802.11n, 500 GB HD, blah, blah, blah.

The second is similar, but has a 16" 1080p screen, a mobile quad-core i7, Nvidia 330M, 6 GB DDR3, and everything else is basically the same as the 14". Due to the extra width, it has a numeric pad on the side.

The 14" is $980, the 16" is $1350. Neither has Optimus, and each probably get around 3-3.5 on battery (if I wanted long battery life on a PC laptop, I would look at Asus instead, like this one:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/a...0jc-1a-review/

That Asus has a Core i3, Nvidia Optimus (310M), and gets about 9.5 hours on battery. Only real downside, is that it's 13.3" screen is 1366x768, but it's only $900.

Apple is still a day late to the Core 'i' series. I won't compare aesthetics, but from a raw performance standout, Apple falls a bit short, but beats most other OEM's on battery life, and the OS' are completely different choices; if you want OSX, you have no choice in the matter.
post #254 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness View Post

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+V...&skuId=9723951

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Sony+-+V...&skuId=9705382

Both are Vaio's and have been available for months. The first has a Core i5-520M, Nvidia 330M, 1600x900 14" screen, BR, 4 GB DDR3, BT, 802.11n, 500 GB HD, blah, blah, blah.

The second is similar, but has a 16" 1080p screen, a mobile quad-core i7, Nvidia 330M, 6 GB DDR3, and everything else is basically the same as the 14". Due to the extra width, it has a numeric pad on the side.

The 14" is $980, the 16" is $1350. Neither has Optimus, and each probably get around 3-3.5 on battery (if I wanted long battery life on a PC laptop, I would look at Asus instead, like this one:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/13/a...0jc-1a-review/

That Asus has a Core i3, Nvidia Optimus (310M), and gets about 9.5 hours on battery. Only real downside, is that it's 13.3" screen is 1366x768, but it's only $900.

Apple is still a day late to the Core 'i' series. I won't compare aesthetics, but from a raw performance standout, Apple falls a bit short, but beats most other OEM's on battery life, and the OS' are completely different choices; if you want OSX, you have no choice in the matter.

Your Best Buy links aren't working, but I recommend just doing price comparisons via the vendor's websites. Using discounted, wholesale, couponed, clearance, or whatever items from resellers isn't the fairest method for a comparison.

Apple has never tried to be the fastest notebooks out there. Never! They may used marketing lingo to say so, but they never have actually competed. You can buy notebooks with desktop CPUs in them so it's clear they never cared about that.

If performance was their only focus then they wouldn't sell notebooks that are only 0.95" tall because it limits so many possible performance options. For instance, despite not knowing which notebook from Best Buy is using the quad-core i7 you mention, I know it's a Clarksdale that is 45W (or 55W) TDP that needs more cooling than the 35W chips Apple uses and greatly reduces battery life with little performance gain.

I also think that aesthetics is important to the comparison because in good engineering, aesthetics serve a purpose. It adds features and usability, and these are not things that I overlook with my purchases.

As or the Asus, I'd still choose a MB for $99 more or MBP for $299 more as Core-i3 plus a discrete GPU just isn't a big enough reason, even when you exclude the OS as a measure. For people looking for Windows machines I almost always recommend Asus. They have good quality for the price and pretty nice looking for price. BTW, is that U30Jc TN or IPS? Resolution isn't the most important aspect of a display yet that is the only thing that is typically listed on spec sheets.
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post #255 of 335
Just as a matter of interest, why are Asus advertising that their laptops have USB3.0 on their site?
post #256 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidRabbit View Post

Just as a matter of interest, why are Asus advertising that their laptops have USB3.0 on their site?

Asus started implementing USB3.0 last year.

SInce Apple has used Asus to design logic boards in the past I hoped that Asus was jumping on this at Apple's request. With Apple's longer than industry average between updates and the yearly release of iDevices I had hoped they'd add USB3.0 to Macs now with iDevices getting support for it this year because next year they will be behind and Apple let go of FireWire syncing long ago ang LightPeak isn't a viable option yet. Oh well, maybe with the next Mac Pro release.
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post #257 of 335
As I want to buy a MBP soon, I also did some shopping around and saw the SOny F series. I was able to kit it out with teh folloiwng:

Intel® Core i7-820QM processor (1.73GHz) with Turbo Boost up to 3.06GHz
500GB Hard Disk Drive (7200rpm)
6GB (4GBx1 + 2GBx1) DDR3-SDRAM-1333
Blu-ray Disc player (+CD/DVD burner)
16.4" VAIO Premium Display (1920x1080) with NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 330M GPU (1GB VRAM)

For $1844.90

That seems a bit higher specced than the best 15 inch MBP?
post #258 of 335
Dual core Core i7for $2,200? No thanks. Can get quad core Core i7 and a better gpu for 1,000 less
post #259 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

I was worried about that too, but I was just in an Apple Store that still had the older MacBook Pros on display - even on the older ones it was called "anti-glare" and not matte, at least on their signs.

They didn't have any new ones out yet, so I couldn't actually look at it to see if it was the same.

FYI, see my post #211 this thread.
They do have an Anti-glare Anti-reflective screen option - it is a BTO order option.
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post #260 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post

Dual core Core i7for $2,200? No thanks. Can get quad core Core i7 and a better gpu for 1,000 less

Enjoy!
post #261 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

I was worried about that too, but I was just in an Apple Store that still had the older MacBook Pros on display - even on the older ones it was called "anti-glare" and not matte, at least on their signs.

They didn't have any new ones out yet, so I couldn't actually look at it to see if it was the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

Anti-glare is more descriptive than matte. it's pure marketing.
But I'll take Ant-glare over glossy any day. That's why I bought a ViewSonic pro 26" 1920 x 1200 monitor over an Apple.

Apple lost my $700, but they clearly don't seem to care.

The do have an Anti-glare option as BTO, possibly available in store as well. (I commented originally in post #211)

I don't know who started calling them "matte" screens because they are not actually "matte" finish, but are treated with high-tech anti-reflective processes.

I agree with you that they are the better ergonomic choice.
For my eyes, Anti-glare, Anti-reflective is absolutely the way to go. I have found pretty much any brand or type of glossy screen to be just too distracting for me.

It's strange that they are unfortunately relegated to the back of the pack by Apple, especially in how they only offer them as BTO on a few models, and for a significant extra $$.

I am just astounded by the number of glossy mirror-like screens out there as the manufacturers rush lemming-like to the shiny glossy as if that was a good thing. I've assumed that it is some LCD manufacturer economy of scale issue as they try to produce both TV and computer screens. But I don't really know why...

My guess is that many people buy them, not because they have compared side by side, but just because they are the only choice on vast majority of computers in the stores, and they don't know to ask/demand an anti-glare. So of course, they walk out with a glossy because that was the only choice on the shelf.
(I am sure some people must like them, but of all the users I work with, most seem to consciously or unconsciously need to adjust the screen or their head placement to avoid the reflections.)
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post #262 of 335
What's with the heavy use of 'integrated graphics" in these MBPs?

I hate that term because it reminds me of cheap underpowered PCs and I will NEVER by an Apple MBP if it has an integrated graphics card in it.

Cmon Apple...
post #263 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by sc_markt View Post

What's with the heavy use of 'integrated graphics" in these MBPs?

I hate that term because it reminds me of cheap underpowered PCs and I will NEVER by an Apple MBP if it has an integrated graphics card in it.

Cmon Apple...

As stated, it's built into the Intel processors so unless you don't want a modern mobile processor in your notebook you're going to be getting an IGP in every Mac notebook you buy. Also stated is that you can turn on the discrete GPU without it intelligently jumping to the IGP to save power when it's not needed, but I don't know why one would do that.

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post #264 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

But will it run Crysis?

I don't think it will run Crysis, but walk... maybe. Crawl?
post #265 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


Yes, I'm sure it hurts not having it yet
post #266 of 335
If you look at the benchmarks on Notebookcheck, the C2D and i3 processors, they're actually quite close: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...st.2436.0.html
(wish I could give a direct link to just the 4-6 ones, but they're there; #s: 16, 22, 34, 39, 44 & 45, iirc).

It's just that Apple ~looks~ stupid Not putting an i3 into their baseline machine right now.


+And I Do Not get Intel's attitude over the chipsets vs. Nvidia.
It sounds patently anticompetitive.
It's like saying that no company is allowed to make a transmission that will work with the Chrysler-sourced engine powering a Mitsubishi car except for Chrysler.

That kind of crap should be illegal. You make a chip; that's it.
Whoever wants to make a go of trying a chipset/mobo business can try if they like.


At some point the C2D train will stop and Apple will be forced to jump on i3 for the 13s.

Maybe they'll wait until Sandy Bridge, or whatever the laptop equivalent is for that; ?Ivy Bridge? .
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post #267 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by superkaratemonkeydeathcar View Post

If you look at the benchmarks on Notebookcheck, the C2D and i3 processors, they're actually quite close: http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...st.2436.0.html
(wish I could give a direct link to just the 4-6 ones, but they're there; #s: 16, 22, 34, 39, 44 & 45, iirc).

It's just that Apple ~looks~ stupid Not putting an i3 into their baseline machine right now.


+And I Do Not get Intel's attitude over the chipsets vs. Nvidia.
It sounds patently anticompetitive.
It's like saying that no company is allowed to make a transmission that will work with the Chrysler-sourced engine powering a Mitsubishi car except for Chrysler.

That kind of crap should be illegal. You make a chip; that's it.
Whoever wants to make a go of trying a chipset/mobo business can try if they like.


At some point the C2D train will stop and Apple will be forced to jump on i3 for the 13s.

Maybe they'll wait until Sandy Bridge, or whatever the laptop equivalent is for that; ?Ivy Bridge? .

Nice stats. Took me a minute to realize the Restrict button is what I need to press after I select the items for comparison. This looks pretty definitive for C2D being the right choice over Core-i3 this time around.

Isn't the problem with Intel and Nvidia's IGP more about the IGP (and other parts) being in the processor as the Northbridge removed, which is like saying having the transmission integrated in with the engine and then trying to add a better transmission to it. I recall the actual licensing issue being with FSB and not DMI, but isn't there an inherent technical issue, too?
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post #268 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Apple is Doomed!

Perhaps not, but customers are screwed.
post #269 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyapple View Post


...No touch screen, no accelerometer, no option for 3G... No deal!


Actually, there has been an accelerometer in macbooks for YEARS. Its true.
post #270 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh.B. View Post

I'm not sure that the benefits of big iron are tangible to most people. There are a lot of improvements over last year's models, and the improvements are stuff that people can relate to.

If performance is ever asked about, the salesperson can assure the buyer that the new MBPs are amazingly fast, with much improved speed over last year's stuff.

VRAM is not important to most people. So long as it can handle a decent resolution with lots of colors and few artifacts, and so long as the sturrering is minimal while watching DVDs, it is plenty good enough.

A real world example where the limited VRAM hinders usability Adobe Photoshop:



That dialog is from a three years old MacBook Pro that has 256 MB VRAM, just like some of the just released 15" models.
post #271 of 335
I guess what ticks me off, is that these new MBPs are neither cutting edge and futureproof, nor financially reasonable. I mean, dropping $2200 on a laptop without things like 1GB+ VRAM, HDMI, Blueray (not even convinced I'd use it, but still), would be worth it if I thought this overprice machine would last me 5 years, but it clearly won't, given my usage patterns. The Photoshop example given above is but one example. No USB3. No 1080P. No eSATA.

I'm thinking Hackintosh.

PS If Apple actually came up with teir 'own' solution to graphics switching, why not use Radeon 5xxx cards, which pound the Nvidia 3xx series? Again, future-proofing for OpenGL 4, with hardware tessellation. I know a lot of 3D content creators who would appreciate that. It looks to me like the MBPs have Optimus with some slight Apple tweak.
post #272 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by RabidRabbit View Post

As I want to buy a MBP soon, I also did some shopping around and saw the SOny F series. I was able to kit it out with teh folloiwng:

Intel® Core™ i7-820QM processor (1.73GHz) with Turbo Boost up to 3.06GHz
500GB Hard Disk Drive (7200rpm)
6GB (4GBx1 + 2GBx1) DDR3-SDRAM-1333
Blu-ray Disc™ player (+CD/DVD burner)
16.4" VAIO Premium Display (1920x1080) with NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 330M GPU (1GB VRAM)

For $1844.90

That seems a bit higher specced than the best 15 inch MBP?

It's better spec'd. You also get an eSATA port and Expresscard 34 port as well.

The i7-820QM vs i7-620M is somewhat of a wash. The i7-820QM is obviously a little faster but the 45W TDP contributes to the 3 hour battery life vs 9 hour battery life. The 1GB of VRAM is a nice and of course blu-ray.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-...st.2436.0.html

It's also 6.9 lbs vs 5.6 lbs for the 15" MBP. It's more comparable against the 17" MBP weight and size wise.

The key (ignoring the OSX vs Win7 debate) is that Apple appears to have gone for battery life. Which they have to do since you can't swap batteries on the go.

If you believe equally the Sony claims of 4.5 hours on the large battery and the Apple claims of 9 hours on the MBP you need to tack on another $100 for the large battery to get 4.5 hours on the Sony and then another $249.99 for another large battery pack. You forgot the backlit keyboard for another $25.

Now you're back in MBP pricing territory and you're up to 8 lbs of weight.

Personally I don't believe either the 4.5 hour Sony claim or the 8-9 hour Apple claim for the i7s. Maybe I'll believe 8-9 hours for the i5 MBPs.

The power spec I DO believe on the Sony is the estimated 1 hour of DVD playback...you can't even get through a movie on the standard battery. As a desktop replacement I'd lean toward the Sony. For mobility I'd choose the MBP without hesitation.

It all depends on your needs.
post #273 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

I'm thinking Hackintosh.

My sentiment exactly. I'm a recent switcher from the Vista years. I hate what microshaft has done to their OS, so I thought I should give Macs a try. My 2 yr old (almost) alu iMac & MBpro were trully cutting edge at the time.

2 years down the line, I love OSX but I find that the hardware is not really up to scratch, not for the price tag anyway (incidentally my 2 fav OSes is w95 for its utter customizability & OSX for being so friggin smooth). It may have to do with being in the UK, as I find the US prices very very competitive whereas I think the extra 20% of the UK pricetages hurts a lot.

I should mention that I am a person that stands by the "you get what you pay for" and I think that everyone would agree that macs are the most competently engineered products out there. Its just that perhaps for the 1st time PC makers are catching up with regards to build quality. I suppose that windows 7 actually being a good and task-efficient OS helps also. Although definately not OSX sleek, at least it does not get bogged down after 2 months use like previous M$ OSes.

I do understand and agree however with having the 13" one with a c2d and a better graphics chip, as the intel stuff is horrid, on a PC or a Mac. You definately DO NOT want any intel chip for graphics, they are trully way below anything NVIDIA & ATI offers.

Now I saw a friend's Dell Hackintosh and I was thoroughly impressed by its fantastic performance. I was also impressed by the power management of OSX on it. Its easy to attribute low power & speed to apple hardware but I think that a lot of it comes down to software. My iMac makes so much more noise when running w7!
post #274 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

HDMI

Now that the Mini Display Port output includes audio, this argument is dead. You just need a Mini Display Port to HDMI cable.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

PS If Apple actually came up with teir 'own' solution to graphics switching, why not use Radeon 5xxx cards

This is an interesting question. A couple of possibilities:

1.) Apple agreed to use Nvidia across the whole product line in exchange for Nvidia developing the custom integrated graphics for the 13" MBP.

2.) Whilst Apple are not using Optimus software, there's something in the Nvidia hardware that makes dynamic switching a lot easier, or even possible.
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post #275 of 335
What Japanese flat screen TVs have Displayport? What Projectors have displayport?

Apple seems to be going dongle-crazy too, but that is another thread topic entirely.

(Mr. H: not aimed at you, just casting my "WTF is with Dongles and Apple" to the wind)
post #276 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Now that the Mini Display Port output includes audio, this argument is dead. You just need a mini display port to HDMI cable.

hmmm, someone mentioned earlier in the thread that the display ports now have audio, but I can't find any reference to this on Apple's site.

Regardless, the vast majority of devices with HDMI inputs also have optical digital audio inputs, so you can use a Mini Display Port to HDMI cable and an optical digital audio cable.
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post #277 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1337_5L4Xx0R View Post

What Japanese flat screen TVs have Displayport? What Projectors have displayport?

Apple seems to be going dongle-crazy too, but that is another thread topic entirely.

(Mr. H: not aimed at you, just casting my "WTF is with Dongles and Apple" to the wind)

Dongles not required, you can get Mini Display Port to HDMI cables and Mini Display Port to DVI cables.
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post #278 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Now that the Mini Display Port output includes audio, this argument is dead. You just need a Mini Display Port to HDMI cable.




This is an interesting question. A couple of possibilities:

1.) Apple agreed to use Nvidia across the whole product line in exchange for Nvidia developing the custom integrated graphics for the 13" MBP.

2.) Whilst Apple are not using Optimus software, there's something in the Nvidia hardware that makes dynamic switching a lot easier, or even possible.

Agreed. Apple and Nvidia have worked together in the past and it's evident here as well. The 320M part is one example and I'm sure they gave Apple a lot of guidance on doing their own implementation of dynamic GPU switching.
post #279 of 335
I'm a bit confused as to the differences between the i5 and i7 processors included in the new MBPs?

My understanding was that previously, both i5 and i7 processors were Turbo Boost able quad-core CPUs, with the i7 also including Hyper Threading and DDR3. Or is the DDR3 an i9 feature?

But now it seems as though neither the i5 or i7 are quad-core, and both include HT, but neither include DDR3?

So what's the difference between the i5 and i7 now that both support Hyper Threading?
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
Reply
post #280 of 335
Quote:
Originally Posted by randian View Post

Even if they did, does FileVault take advantage of hardware acceleration?

I have no idea. It's just a future-proof kind of thing to think about for people who buy laptops infrequently.
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