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Violence in Israel/Palestine - Page 8

post #281 of 762
<img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

mika.

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
post #282 of 762
quote:
don't look at me heeb... i just said it... yer the one that flinched.

frugal with my bait,

cuss


quote:
yo haifa,

boot me if you can...

cuss

p.s. if it walks, talks and acts like a eugenecist....


So your remarks were addressed to someone else? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

And what's with name calling? Makes you feel more of a redneck? Come to think of it, your slang sounds alot like some rasta people I used to know. I wonder..

mika.

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
post #283 of 762
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>LC:



Give, me the numbers first, They could be worth your history lesson... (see, I can negotiate like Sharon...) </strong><hr></blockquote>


ok. We have deal. I'll photo copy the info, post it on my web site and will provide you will complete references to verify. Can't wait for that history lesson. <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />


mika.
post #284 of 762
Can't wait for you to prove that Palestine was deserted before the zionists came...
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post #285 of 762
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>Can't wait for you to prove that Palestine was deserted before the zionists came... </strong><hr></blockquote>

:eek: You must be really dense. Here's what I said, again.

quote:
"quote:
Show me another estimate, (preferably not of my IQ)


I don't need to show you an estimate of the numbers. The facts are clearly recorded. Unfortunately, these only relate to the Jewish migration into the holy land. You'll never find any figures on the Arab migration into the holy land, particularly between 1947 and 1967 when these areas were under their control. This is because the Arabs don't want that information released."


To recap: These only relate to the Jewish migration.


mika.
post #286 of 762
yo haifaheeb,

i don't fiddle with yids that quote counterpoints incessantly and use emoticons.

i know what i said nig, you needn't repeat it...

cuss


if you'll try it like this, you anal-retentive moron-racist disguised in a mortarboard ... you'll get a straight answer.

ie


haifa: "yo cuss, you calling me a racist by beating me over the head with racist slurs?"

cuss: "you damned straight!"
post #287 of 762
What's the matter cuss? You run out of sisters and cousins to screw with? Try the sheep and the donkey.


mika.
post #288 of 762
So what you are saying is that my numbers on jewish migration are totally wrong?
And so are my numbers on the palestinians who lived there (But this part you cannot prove)?
Since our argument is about the historic rights to this country, you better prove my numbers dead wrong then...
You know of course that even Herzl referd to the area as "Palestine" during the late 1890's in his negotiations with the Turk Sultan (a significant mulim leader), who was at war with the arabs and sympatetic with the zionist cause...
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post #289 of 762
[quote]Try the sheep and the donkey.<hr></blockquote>
you are WAY out of line here...
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post #290 of 762
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------
I don't see too many victors trying to sign a peace treaty and giving back land they lost-especially to people who started the war in the first place.
---------------------------------------------------------------

This is very common and has always been a part of peacedeals. Like after the Napoleon wars, WWI, WWII, the korean war, the bosnian war, the kosovo-conflict... etc. etc...</strong><hr></blockquote>I'd be interested in seeing this information, too. I also think it would be appropriate to add the additional qualifier that the loser was still attacking the victor.

I.e., another way of stating this is, how many times has an attacker been given land in order to stop attacking? The closest I can think of is when Chamberlain et al. allowed the Germans to keep what they had taken at the start of WWII.
post #291 of 762
quote:
So what you are saying is that my numbers on jewish migration are totally wrong?


I don't know. I know the numbers concerning the Arabs are out of the hat, so to speak. You cant get any numbers you can rely on. They dont exist. And the ones that do, are highly suspect.


mika.
post #292 of 762
Hey new, what time do you have? These late night discussions are killing me. How the hell can you stay up so late?

mika.
post #293 of 762
My claim is only related to the "redistribution" of land as a part of a peacedeal.
Since both who started the conflict and How victorious (if at all) the winning party actually is, is always quite hard to determin.

While looking up on this I was reminded that the clearly most relevant example here is Egypt and Sinai (captured by Isreal in 67)... The egypt offensive (in 73) was in the beginning very succesful in crossing the Suez and retriving large parts of the Sinai. But the Isreali counteroffensive stoped the egyptian progress and started to drive them slowly backwards. The Isreali millitary cost was so big however, that a US negotiated ceasefire was achived. This in turn led to the withdrawal (aka giving back) of the whole of Sinai to Egypt in 1979... Since then Egypt and Isreal has had better relations than any other arab country...

On BBC just now... The Falkland Islands to be negotiated back to to Argentine... (maybe)

Let's continue tomorrow... (you still owe little cuss an apology...)

[ 04-02-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
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post #294 of 762
yo yiddy the racist heeb,

yer money-grubbin' momma seemed to like it.

cuss


p.s. to libby hippy New: Curlylocks the diamond merchant isn't WAY out of line until i say he is. the poor sob is constipated with hate... and i'm here to help unclog him.

p.p.s. Demons out i say! no heebie, not the palestinians. that bad bullet that's got yer fanxter prolapsed.
post #295 of 762
[quote]p.s. to libby hippy New: Curlylocks the diamond merchant isn't WAY out of line until i say he is. the poor sob is constipated with hate... and i'm here to help unclog him.<hr></blockquote>
Your like straight out of "white boy shuffle"...
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post #296 of 762
I'm not a big Sharon fan, but what Israel is doing now finally makes sense. They will get proof that Arafat is behind the suicide attacks,they will kill many terrorists, find arms caches, and wall off the palestinians until they realize that they ****ed up big time. Sharon should have done this weeks ago. Weed out the bad guys, make sure the palestinians know that Israel's military is still the best in the area, and make sure they realize that suicide bombings will end up making the entire palestinian population miserable.

They underestimated Israeli resolve-BIG MISTAKE..........................
post #297 of 762
LIke those seven nuns who got hurt when the started shelling a church yesterday?
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post #298 of 762
Quote:
The egypt offensive (in 73) was in the beginning very succesful in crossing the Suez and retriving large parts of the Sinai. But the Isreali counteroffensive stoped the egyptian progress and started to drive them slowly backwards. The Isreali millitary cost was so big however, that a US negotiated ceasefire was achived


Wrong. Israel agreed to a cease-fire after gaining that advantage crossing the Suez because the soviets threatened nuclear war and the Americans just didnt want to call their bluff.

So Israel went along with the Americans as sign of gratitude for the American arms airlift and the help given by the American in electronically defeating the SA missile threat that knocked out so many Israeli Aircrafts at the initial stages of that war.

Quote:
Since then Egypt and Isreal has had better relations than any other arab country...

Wrong again. Relations between Egypt and Israel are not much better than those relations between Americans and the Soviets during the cold war. Israel does enjoy friendly relations with some Arab states, but they are closely guarded and concealed from the public.

As far as the treaty between Israel and Egypt, it is more fragile than most people think. At the moment it suits both parties interest to maintain the treaty. But I wouldnt count on those mutual interests to remain so indefinitely.


Quote:
(you still owe little cuss an apology...)


Now repeat after me New:
I am not a pleasure unit.

Again:
I am not a pleasure unit.

Repeat again:
I am not a pleasure unit.


mika.

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
post #299 of 762
Interesting article in todays Jerusalem Post.
<a href="http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/04/02/LatestNews/LatestNews.46247.html" target="_blank">http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2002/04/02/LatestNews/LatestNews.46247.html</a>

quote:
Documents show link between militants, Palestinian leadership


JERUSALEM (AP) - The army said it found a letter at Yasser Arafat's compound, written by a militant group to Arafat's chief financial officer, requesting money needed to make up to nine bombs a week.

The document details costs incurred by the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, a militia linked to Arafat's Fatah movement, and
was found in the office of Fuad Shobaki, chief financial
officer for the Palestinian Authority, said intelligence officer Col. Miri Eisin.

"I call it a terror invoice, of how much terrorism costs," she told a news conference.

The letter was among documents seized after tanks and troops stormed into Arafat's compound Friday, following a wave of Palestinian suicide bomb attacks.

Asked about the documents, senior Palestinian official
Saeb Erekat said he had not seen them. But he said Israeli
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon "has asked everyone to help
with his public relations campaign and the Israelis are
very busy fabricating things."

The government said the documents are legitimate and
important.

"What we have here for the first time is a document which
connects directly those responsible for terrorist activity
and their requesting the money from an official person
within the Palestinian Authority, and not just any person,
but Shobaki," said Eisin.

At the governments demand, the Palestinians arrested Shobaki earlier this year for his alleged involvement in the Karine A arms shipment seized in the Red Sea. The government says Shobaki helped organize the shipment, which was from Iran and headed to the Gaza Strip.

Shobaki is currently in Arafat's besieged compound in Ramallah, the government says.

In the document, dated September 17, 2001, the Al Aqsa Brigades state their largest expense has been electrical components and chemical supplies for the production of charges and bombs, and that each explosive cost at least NIS 700 (about $150).

"We need about five to nine bombs a week for our cells in various areas" the document says.

The letter also asks for NIS 82,000 (more than $17,000) to be immediately transferred to purchase ammunition for automatic rifles.

"We require this ammunition on a daily basis," it said.

It also lists the costs of memorial services for Al Aqsa
members who are killed, as well as printing posters, invitations and tents for mourners.

The army also found a box of counterfeit money and plates for printing more in the compound Friday.


Looks like Arafat was caught with his pants down. Again.

You can get more details here: <a href="http://www.debka.com" target="_blank">http://www.debka.com</a>


mika.
post #300 of 762
[quote] Wrong. Israel agreed to a cease-fire after gaining that advantage crossing the Suez because the soviets threatened nuclear war and the Americans just didnt want to call their bluff. <hr></blockquote>

I guess in your world, there will always be someone else to blame... My version is what you'll find in most historybooks...

[quote] Wrong again. Relations between Egypt and Israel are not much better than those relations between Americans and the Soviets during the cold war. Israel does enjoy friendly relations with some Arab states, but they are closely guarded and concealed from the public. <hr></blockquote>

But you have all the secret information do you? What arab country is more friendly to Israel?

Still my example still holds up as an example of land for peace... How are those numbers comming...?
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post #301 of 762
quote:
Still my example still holds up as an example of land for peace...

No it doesnt. You were asked which country other than Israel was asked to agree to such ludicrous terms. You cited some examples, stick to them. All we want are the details.


quote:
How are those numbers comming...?

Youre gonna have to wait on those demographic stats. The weather is shity here today. But dont worry, Im gonna do my best to keep you to your word. Im very interested in those 5 examples. I just hope you dont turn into another Arafat when I finally post those numbers.


mika.
post #302 of 762
Never mind. I found it ...
<a href="http://www.cbs.gov.il/shnaton/st02-01_e.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.cbs.gov.il/shnaton/st02-01_e.shtml</a>

mika.
post #303 of 762
Hmm that was interesting numbers.

And New, are you related to little cuss? If not, you guys should really stop masturbating each other because it's very transparent. You're usually pretty rational but when you stick up for this little prick it invalidates anything you say.
post #304 of 762
What so interesting about them :confused:

Anyway those numbers have nothing to do with the case of the argument. News numbers were about the populataion up to 1946 and of British Palestine. Our own little Milosevic numbers were from 1948 and onwards and only about Israel. And his argument about not trusting News numbers could be used against him much stronger. The HP he links to is a gov.il. Why should I trust official Israeli numbers when you don´t trust a Jewish historian?
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post #305 of 762
What's NOT interesting about them?

I just thought they were interesting because I thought they were interesting. I think quantum physics is interesting too. And navel lint. And why'd you bring Milosevec into the conversation? little cuss is just a troll, he's not that bad to be compared to a guy like that.
post #306 of 762
Why should I trust official Israeli numbers when you don´t trust a Jewish historian?

I never said I didn't trust the Jewish historian.
post #307 of 762
Heh. Little Cuss is a troll but he is my troll (as on my side of the argument. Not as he is me). Its PC^KILLA that is a Milosevic (as believing in ethnic cleansing).

And the same goes for not believing Jewish historians. Its PC^KILLA that doesn´t do that.
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post #308 of 762
[quote]If not, you guys should really stop masturbating each other because it's very transparent.<hr></blockquote>

Jealous?

I'm trying to figure out these numbers. I think I can accept the israeli cbs as a source, but as Anders stated these number seem to not show the whole picture, so please give me some time to examine the site...

This is what I found so far:
[quote]9.\tThe growth of the Muslim and Druze populations stems almost uniquely from natural increase.<hr></blockquote>
Bummer!

Who were those arab countries who were more friendly to Israel than Egypt?
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post #309 of 762
Who were those arab countries who were more friendly to Israel than Egypt?

I think Jordan is. And Turkey. Perhaps even the new Afghanistan. I'm not sure though. You'd think Kuwait would be since Israels biggest enemy tried invading that once, but 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' may not apply in this case. By this logic Iran would be a huge Israel booster!
post #310 of 762
Turky, Afghanistan and even Iran are not Arab nations...

Another clipping from the gbs site:
[quote] The census covered the population living within the borders of the State of
Israel, and the population living in Jewish settlements in the Administered Areas (the
West Bank and the Gaza Strip). <hr></blockquote>
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post #311 of 762
quote
p.s. to libby hippy New: Curlylocks the diamond merchant isn't WAY out of line until i say he is. the poor sob is constipated with hate... and i'm here to help unclog him.

The little guy set his bitch straight fairly quickly. You got to give him credit for that.

quote
And the same goes for not believing Jewish historians.

Your historian gave you some references? Hows the homework going New?

quote
Its PC^KILLA that is a Milosevic (as believing in ethnic cleansing).

Heheh. We covered that one already. We know what your sides plan for the Jewish population in Judea Samaria and Gaza call for.


mika.
post #312 of 762
Who were those arab countries who were more friendly to Israel than Egypt?

I'll give ya a hint. It involves a Mossad listening post in a strategic location.


mika.
post #313 of 762
[quote]Hows the homework going New? <hr></blockquote>
To tell you the truth, I'm using my time right now to stude the Israeli statistics site you posted... Like Anders observed your table doesn't show anything but the population inside israels borders, and after 1948. So nothing in it actually falsifies my numbers...

Here's something I found on the Statistics site (my highlight):



Why is it that the imigration to the settlements on the West Bank and Gaza increased during the last three years? Isn't this a clear breach of the peace agreements signed by Israel? Can this be related to the palestinian uprising?

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
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post #314 of 762
As a side note:

You do realize that during the Roman war on Judea you had Jews (Josephus sound familiar) that fought along the Romans. Does that mean that the Roman cause more just or moral? To try to cloak your argument with an aura of respectability by using references from Jewish persons or persons who might have Jewish ancestry does not make you or your arguments any more credible. So you can stop with that nonsense.


mika.
post #315 of 762
I'm just trying to show that you don't speak for all jews (or all israeli jews, for that matter). I also don't want to use sources that you can just brush aside as propaganda...

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
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post #316 of 762
quote:
Why is it that the imigration to the settlements on the West Bank and Gaza increased during the last three years? Isn't this a clear breach of the peace agreements signed by Israel?

No. It is not.


quote:
Can this be related to the palestinian uprising?

Clutching at straws again.


mika.

P.S. I could point to examples where the Arabs broke that agreement from day one.

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
post #317 of 762
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>I'm just rying to show that you don't speak for all jews (or all israeli jews, for that matter). ...</strong><hr></blockquote>


I think that's pretty obvious. And most people here, I think, are quite aware of the pluralism of opinion among Jews - in or outside Israel. We dont need you to point that out to us. Sticks to task youve been given.


mika.

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
post #318 of 762
quote:
The HP he links to is a gov.il. Why should I trust official Israeli numbers..


:eek: b/c the whole economy depends on the numbers being accurate.


mika.
post #319 of 762
[quote] Sticks to task youve been given. <hr></blockquote>
Given? by you? watch that language...
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post #320 of 762
btw, You still havn't shown that my numbers are wrong...
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