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Violence in Israel/Palestine - Page 9

post #321 of 762
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>btw, You still havn't shown that my numbers are wrong...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Are you going to renege on our agreement now? Cause if youre not, it sure sounds like you might.

mika.
post #322 of 762
You were supposed to prove my numbers wrong... You havn't done that. And you don't even answer half of my arguments...

I'm trying to find an essay written by peace activist Johan Galtung about the issues we were discussing. I'll hopefully post it shortly when I find it...
Are you gonna keep your part of the deal, or are you gonna pull a Sharon on me?
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post #323 of 762
Could be worse. He can pull an Arafat on you!
post #324 of 762
I kept my part of the deal. And don't slander Sharon. He's an honorable person who kept his word when he has given his word - even though I wish hed not given his word on some issues. You might not like his views, but that's no reason to try to call him a liar.

Also, you might want to look at yourself a little more critically. It was interesting to watch your behavior here when cuss was around. Your silence concerning the document linking Arafat and the terror cell under his protection, and your outrage when Israel responded with force to the ceaseless murder and shredding of its citizens by those terror cells speaks volumes.


mika.
post #325 of 762
sharon=hitler


snuggles,

cuss
post #326 of 762
Little cus = Nazi.

PC Killa, what Arab country has a Mossad listening post? Oman? Qatar, UAE, Barain, and Kuwait would be other guesses, but I still think Oman. I could add Jordon to that list, but they don't have a secret relationship, mainly just an overt one. They have good relations with Turkey also, but that is not Arab.

I also hear that Israel bases some of their subs in Oman (the ones that carry some of Israel's nuclear deterent.)

So which state is it?
"All good things must come to an end."
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"All good things must come to an end."
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post #327 of 762
I havn't found the essay yet, but here are some short extracts from another article:
[quote]To draw exact borders, each community can join the side its voters prefer, the process used in 1920 to define the Danish-German border. <hr></blockquote>
[quote] At a 1995 meeting with the incoming
President of Ecuador, Johan Galtung suggested to make the disputed border territory, over which Ecuador and Peru have fought four wars since 1941, into a "binational zone with a natural park." The president was at first skeptical, but did propose it to Peru, which accepted it with minor modifications. Now they have a peace treaty.Â* <hr></blockquote>
These are very "ideal" examples. Most peacedeals involving "giving back"/redestributing land are less colorful...
More on the way.
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post #328 of 762
[quote]I'll give you the exact numbers if those are so important to you.<hr></blockquote>

You gave me an Israeli population statistic, that has nothing to do with the population in the whole area (palestine) And that said nothing to back your claims that my numbers were wrong...

And BTW, Sharon is a war criminal...
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post #329 of 762
little cuss=commie Lumbee


listen, i'm just doing this for perverted reasons.... and not the ones yer thinking of... I wanna watch NEW and PC Killa have make-up sex...


love and hand grenades,

cuss
post #330 of 762
quote:
PC Killa, what Arab country has a Mossad listening post?

Ill give you another hint, but thats it. The information is out there if you look for it hard enough. But thats not the hint. All I can say is that you still havent found it. Im not very good at being cryptic.


quote:
And BTW, Sharon is a war criminal...

So is everyone else according to your rules and definition.


quote:
And that said nothing to back your claims that my numbers were wrong...

Ahh?!? Where are the references to your numbers? Your Jewish historian did provide you with some references, right?


quote:
listen, i'm just doing this for perverted reasons.... and not the ones yer thinking of... I wanna watch NEW and PC Killa have make-up sex...

love and hand grenades,

cuss


Well, he does have a good sense of humor

Mika.
post #331 of 762
mika...

you forgot yer queer-ass emoticons.

lover, not a fighter,

cuss
post #332 of 762
[quote] And BTW, Sharon is a war criminal...
So is everyone else according to your rules and definition. <hr></blockquote>

No, just Sharon... Want my "FACTS"?

[quote] Where are the references to your numbers? Your Jewish historian did provide you with some references, right? <hr></blockquote>

Why don't you do your job and prove me wrong...
well since you can't / won't, heres the sources:
Sources: The numbers in this table are estimates constructed from the following: Yehoshua Ben-Arieh, "The Population of the Large Towns in Palestine During the First Eighty Years of the Nineteenth Century, According to Western Sources" in Moshe Ma'oz, ed. Studies on Palestine during the Ottoman Period, Magnus, 1975; Alexander Scholch, "The Demographic Development of Palestine 1850-1882", International Journal of Middle East Studies, XII, 4, November 1985, pp. 485-505; "Palestine", Encyclopedia Britannica, 11th edn, 1911; "Palestine", Encyclopedia of Islam, 1964; UN Document A/AC 14/32, 11 November 1947, p.304; Justin McCarthy, "The Population of Ottoman Syria and Iraq, 1878-1914", Asian and African Studies, XV, 1 March 1981; Kemal Karpat, "Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82-1893", International Journal of Middle East Studies, XCI, 2, 1978; Bill Farell, "Review of Joan Peters", 'From Time Immemorial', Journal of Palestine Studies, 53, Fall 1984, pp. 126-34; Walid Khalidi, From Heaven to Conquest: Readings in Zionism and the Palestine Problem until 1948, Institute for Palestine Studies, 1971 appendix I; Janet L. Abu Lughod, "The Demographic Transformation of Palestine", in Ibrahim Abu Lughod, ed., The Transformation of Palestine: Essays on the Origin and Development of the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Northwestern University Press, 1971 pp. 139-63.

And no, I didn't read all those books myself... I copied the the whole thing... just for the records...
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post #333 of 762
Lebanese security officials, speaking in southern Lebanon on condition of anonymity, said Hezbollah guerrillas attacked three Israeli army outposts in the hills of Chebaa Farms with about a dozen rockets. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
\tIsraeli fighter jets then struck, firing about a dozen air-to-surface missiles in six runs on locations where guerrillas were believed to be taking cover or on the move near the towns of Chebaa and Kfar Chouba, witnesses said. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
\tThe Israeli army also responded with automatic rifle, tank and artillery fire. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
\tLate Wednesday, the jets returned to fire four more missiles after guerrillas expanded the rocketing of Israeli positions, including the radar monitoring station on Mt. Hermon above the Chebaa Farms area. Israel also expanded its action, with a nighttime strike targeting an area three miles inside Lebanon. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
\tHezbollah said in a statement that its fighters were engaged in “fierce confrontations” with six Israeli positions in the Chebaa Farms area, “scoring definite hits among enemy ranks.” In Jerusalem, the Israeli army reported that one Israeli soldier was moderately wounded in the attack. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
\tEarlier Wednesday, guerrillas exchanged mortar fire for a second day with the Israelis. Timur Goksel, spokesman for a U.N. peacekeeping force in southern Lebanon, warned there was a danger “restrained” skirmishes could get out of control. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
\tIncreased exchanges in the past week have raised the possibility of wider Arab-Israeli clashes outside the Palestinian territories where intense Israeli military operations are under way following a wave of Palestinian suicide bombings. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
\tA Hezbollah statement said a member “who was martyred performing his duty of jihad,” or holy war, was being buried Wednesday. About 1,500 people attended his funeral in eastern Lebanon’s Bekaa Valley, where some said he had died during Tuesday’s fighting. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
\tIsraeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has warned Hezbollah and Syria, which Israel says controls the guerrillas, that they are “not immune” from Israeli retaliation. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
\tHezbollah, which fought Israeli troops in southern Lebanon for 18 years until their May 2000 withdrawal, issued its own warning Wednesday to Israel against targeting Lebanon. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
post #334 of 762
No, just Sharon... Want my "FACTS"?

He's the only war criminal? I find that hard to beleive. But if he is a war criminal the Arafat is the king of war criminals. Times ten. To the ninth power.
post #335 of 762
Some <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,49419,00.html" target="_blank">good news</a>, and some <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,49462,00.html" target="_blank">bad news</a>.
post #336 of 762
Quote:
No, just Sharon

Right. You would defend Arafat in court against charges of war crimes. But what would you plead? Insanity?

quote
Sources: The numbers in this table are estimates constructed from the following:

Blah, blah, blah
The only primary source on your list is the Ottoman Population Records and the Census of 1881/82-1893. And that leaves a HUGE gap in the numbers.

quote:
you forgot yer queer-ass emoticons.

lover, not a fighter

cuss

Yes. We know cuss. Just don't tell the sheep that. (just for you lover) <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />


mika.

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
post #337 of 762
[quote] He's the only war criminal? I find that hard to beleive. But if he is a war criminal the Arafat is the king of war criminals. Times ten. To the ninth power. <hr></blockquote>

I didn't say that. I said my statement was only targeted at Sharon. Not "everybody else". Read the thread before you respond...

[quote]Blah, blah, blah<hr></blockquote>
Yes, I admit it, Those sources seem like trash compared to yours...
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post #338 of 762
ok, I couldn't find the essay, so here are just five quick examples of how control over land is changed as part of peacedeals/conflict resolutions. I chose some rater well-known conflicts from very different parts of the world and the century:

1. The indian Independence (1947) the crown example... Gandhi the "one-man boundary force" organizes a non-violent movement the physically loses ever "battle" but wins the "war".

2. The Norwegian and Swedish Union splits (1905) the "poster child" of conflict resolution. A strong Norwegian millitary build-up leads to a split of the Swedish-dominated union (Norway was originally given to Sweden at the Kiel peace, after the Napolen war) . Norway gains its independence but has to reduce its millitary force... Some "historically" juicy parts of Norway are now parts of Sweden and Denmark.

3. South Africa. (1993) Peacedeal between NP (de Klerks National Party) and ANC (Mandelas African National Congress), (previously labeled a terrorist organisation). If this is a real "redistribution of land" can be discussed. But at least it is a "redistribution of power over land". DeKlerk and Mandela recieved the Nobel price for this. And that Price inspired giving the Nobel price to the peacebrokers in Northern Ireland and Rabin/Perez/Arafat. But these two last peacedeals haven't been as successfull as the South African...

4. East Timor. (1999) A UN overseen vote for separation from Indonesia was first met with an increased millitary presence and Violence against the people by local millitas. But international pressur led to the ratification of the vote by Indonesia, and the implementation of an Australian led UN peaceforce to protect the civilian population.

5. Ecuador/Peru. (1995) Since its getting late, since the deal is almost to good to be true, and since we need a good example from South America, I'll just copy something I posted earlier:
At a 1995 meeting with the incoming President of Ecuador, Johan Galtung suggested to make the disputed border territory, over which Ecuador and Peru have fought four wars since 1941, into a "binational zone with a natural park." The president was at first skeptical, but did propose it to Peru, which accepted it with minor modifications. Now they have a peace treaty.

In the 4 first examples the "weaker part", having won nothing in war, is given "control over land" as a way to end a conflict...
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post #339 of 762
this just in...

BETHLEHEM, West Bank (AP) — Israeli tanks rolled into the West Bank’s largest city, Nablus, on Wednesday and other troops laid siege to a refugee camp, battling Palestinians who barricaded entrances and fought back with bombs and guns. Soldiers also encircled Palestinian gunmen holed up in the church marking Jesus’ birthplace. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Twelve Palestinians and an Israeli soldier were killed on the sixth day of Israel’s offensive aimed at crushing Palestinian militias and stopping terror attacks on Israeli civilians. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon convened Cabinet ministers to approve the next stage of the open-ended “Operation Protective Wall.” Only two major West Bank towns — Hebron and Jericho — were still under Palestinian control late Wednesday. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
In the town of Ramallah, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat remained a prisoner of Israel, confined to a few rooms in his former headquarters. Raanan Gissin, a Sharon adviser, said Arafat “won’t communicate (with the outside world) until ... we see he is no longer a threat and not instigating terrorism.” &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Arafat, who is accompanied by about 300 people, including aides, security guards and several dozen foreign volunteers, still has use of a mobile phone. Israel insists it is trying to keep him relatively comfortable. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
On Wednesday, the Israeli military released a detailed list of supplies shipped to Arafat and his entourage that day, including 66 packages of yellow cheese, 55 cans of sardines, 34 cases of mineral water, 145 pounds of coffee and packages of pain killers. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
In Jordan, Arafat’s neurologist said his medical checkup is four months overdue, but that the 72-year-old leader seemed in good spirits when the two spoke by phone over the weekend. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
President Bush repeated his support for the Israeli assault. “He understands and respects Israel’s right to defend herself,” White House spokesman Ari Fleischer said. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Secretary of State Colin Powell said he was weighing a meeting with Israeli and Arab leaders during a trip to Europe next week. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
“My mind is open,” Powell told reporters at the State Department. “We are examining all possibilities. I would not rule out meeting with anybody where it would serve a useful purpose.” &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
U.S. special envoy Anthony Zinni remains in the region striving to implement a truce plan authored last June by CIA chief George Tenet. The U.S. Embassy hasn’t released any information on his activities in recent days, and no meetings were scheduled with either Israelis or Palestinians. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
But daily anti-Israeli protests in the Arab world grew more violent. Thousands of Lebanese and Palestinians clashed with security forces Wednesday outside the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, with at least 25 reported injured as protesters threw stones and security forces used tear gas and water cannons. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Under pressure to cut off ties completely with Israel, Egypt took a more limited step Wednesday, announcing it would suspend all diplomatic contacts with Israel except those aimed at helping the Palestinians. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
In five major Palestinian towns under full Israeli control — Ramallah, Qalqiliya, Jenin, Tulkarem and Bethlehem — tanks patrolled streets, enforcing strict curfews that confined hundreds of thousands of Palestinians to their homes. In Ramallah, residents were without water after city officials said Israeli troops destroyed the main pumping station when shelling a Palestinian security compound. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
The incursion into Nablus — a city of more than 100,000 people in the northern West Bank — began Wednesday evening. Shellfire thundered as tanks began rolling into the city. Gunmen and Palestinian police were moving in the streets, closing roads with sandbags and planting mines. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
A Palestinian woman was killed and five people wounded, apparently when shells hit two apartments in downtown Nablus. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Fighting was heaviest Wednesday in Jenin, a militant stronghold north of Nablus that Israel has invaded six times before in the past 18 months of fighting. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Dozens of tanks entered Jenin and surrounded the adjacent refugee camp early Wednesday. Helicopters and tanks fired machine guns at gunmen who hurled grenades and fired from assault rifles. Five people, including a militia leader, a nurse and a 13-year-old boy, were killed in the fighting. An Israeli officer was also killed. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Armed men in the camp had prepared large amounts of homemade grenades and bombs and built barricades to make it harder for Israeli tanks to enter. Militiamen claimed they damaged tracks of six tanks. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Ali Safouri, a militia leader, said he and his men felt that, judging by Israel’s tough sweep through Ramallah, this was their last stand. He said they were trying to make every bullet count. “We use it for sniping only, we are not shooting in all directions,” Safouri said by telephone. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
In biblical Bethlehem, just south of Jerusalem, Israeli and Palestinian officials failed to resolve a standoff at the Church of the Nativity, built over the site where tradition says Jesus was born and one of Christianity’s major shrines. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
About 300 Palestinians, nearly all of them armed, have been holed up in the shrine since Tuesday, running from Israeli forces after hours of heavy gun battles near the church and adjacent Manger Square. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Israeli Defense Minister Binyamin Ben-Eliezer said Israel did not intend to break into the church, but army officials said those inside would not be allowed to go free. Five Italian journalists and an Armenian colleague, who had been trapped in the church compound by the fighting, were evacuated Wednesday. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
One of the Italian journalists, RAI TV correspondent Marc Innaro, said the gunmen “were very determined, not nervous, tired also, but not willing at all to surrender.” &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
More than a dozen leaders of Christian churches in the Holy Land, including Latin Patriarch Michel Sabbah, tried to reach Bethlehem on Wednesday, but were turned away at an Israeli military checkpoint. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Several dozen Palestinians, including some who were armed, also sought sanctuary at St. Mary’s, a Roman Catholic convent near Manger Square. At one point Wednesday, a priest and seven nuns emerged from the convent, but by then the gunmen had slipped out the back, the army said. The Israeli army spokesman, Brig. Gen. Ron Kitrey, said the bound body of Palestinian man wearing a camouflage jacket was found in the building, and that the circumstance of his death were not immediately clear. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
The bodies of five more Palestinians, including at least two gunmen, were found elsewhere in Bethlehem. One of the corpses was discovered in a mosque that witnesses said had been damaged by an Israeli tank shell. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
The journalists trapped near the Church of the Nativity and several other foreigners staying at the Bethlehem Star Hotel, near Manger Square, were evacuated by security officials Wednesday and driven to safety in a convoy of five armored vehicles. Witnesses said U.S. Marines aided in the evacuation. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
Wearing flak jackets and sidearms, the U.S. officers rushed into the hotel and used a loudspeaker to call the foreigners to come out. The forces were equipped with a list of the people they were to evacuate, witnesses said. The names of the 15 or so evacuees, including Americans and Britons, were not immediately available. &lt;cm-bd&gt;¶
post #340 of 762
Ok. Fair enough. Obviously Im not familiar with any of these cases. Im gonna pick a couple to study and get back to you on these. Although, I was hoping for more details in each specific case, I understand its late. Maybe we can learn something from these.

mika.
post #341 of 762
keep yer head down heeb,

and goodnight,

cuss
post #342 of 762
quote:
No, just Sharon

quote:
I didn't say that. I said my statement was only targeted at Sharon. Not "everybody else". Read the thread before you respond...

He did. And so did I.


quote:
Yes, I admit it, Those sources seem like trash compared to yours...

Garbage in, garbage out.


mika.

[ 04-03-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
post #343 of 762
[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>LIke those seven nuns who got hurt when the started shelling a church yesterday?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe if the pussy Palestinians didn't storm the church with guns blazing, taking refuge in a house of worship. But of course you have no problem with that.............................................. .........
post #344 of 762
Yeah i was perplexed by that statement too. They storm a church and shoot at Israeli soldiers from with-in.... but the Israelis can't shoot back? Just because they're in a church? Yeah that makes sense.
post #345 of 762
hey steve,

i've got that(or a similar) marking on my scalp... i always thought it was 999 though and it's right inside the hairline... it looks kinda like a tatoo but it's welpy too, like it was burned in... anyhoo, i've had it since before i can remember and my folks always maintained that it was just a birthmark.

do you have one?

cuss magus of midian oklahoma
post #346 of 762
cuss, 666 is just a derivative of my birthdate. No markings on me, sorry.

A MUST READ for all here. Its an email from an Israeli full of history, current events and a view you're unlikely to find in the news, especially in Europe. Its a long letter, but very well written:

<a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/658193/posts" target="_blank">http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/658193/posts</a>


.................................................. ..
post #347 of 762
Sadam just raised the price on a suicide bomber. you (well, your family) now get $25,000 if you blowyourself up and take out some jews on your way out. Nice.

I think suicide bombers are about to skyrocket.
post #348 of 762
so yer saying arafat's not behind the suicide bombings? that he couldn't stop them if he wanted to?

hmm, interesting...

cuss

p.s. i finally got around to reading 'danny's' letter. it's sad... but i found one thing that disturbs me a bit too much. he said that the palestinians would kill any jews on sight. well, if they were hasidics i could see that working well.... otherwise, how can you tell them apart?
post #349 of 762
To them: jew=caucasian.
post #350 of 762
Well, I read Danny's letter to. And found it quite moving, as it echoes the fright and security concerns of my other Israeli and Palestine friends.
But he is totally wrong on two things.

1. Firstly a lot of non-arabs and non-muslims live in the palestinian territory, and have done so for decades. Even caucasians (!), A LOT of them... Americans study at the the University in Ramallah, and Christian pilgrims have been the main source of income (tourism) in places like Nazareth and Betlehem. (Both in the palestinian territories)... Jews live there as well, and a jewish peace activist has been the guest of Arafat for the last days. (I'm not sure if he is there now).

2. Secondly, his history references are totally wrong. Both on the Balfour Declaration and his version of the Sinai war in 1973 and the following peace. His other historical references are also quite "biased" and reflect the standard zionist way of justifing the occupations and anexing of palestinian land and property.

The fact that this is published on a right-wing site, that has absolutly nothing positive to say about the palestinians, and nothing negative to say about the Israelis...

---
I'd also like to bring your attention to this article written by Yossi Beilin, the former Israeli justice minister in the government led by Ehud Barak, and Yasser Abed Rabbo, the minister of culture and information in the Palestinian Authority.


A Mideast Partnership Can Still Work
by Yasser Abed Rabbo and Yossi Beilin

Last week we and 50 of our colleagues  Palestinian and Israeli political and cultural leaders  signed a declaration that was published simultaneously in Israeli and Palestinian newspapers. Our declaration did not attempt to solve every aspect of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Rather, at this most tragic and difficult of times in the Middle East, it attempted to state unequivocally those principles on which we believe a solution can be based.Â*

In our statement, we called for an end to bloodshed, an end to occupation, a return to negotiation and the realization of peace between our peoples. None of us would have signed this statement if we did not believe its objectives could be achieved. Even in the midst of ongoing violence, we do not believe we are deluding ourselves when we profess our belief in the fundamental humanity of the other side, or our faith that we do have partners for peace in each other and that a negotiated solution is still possible.Â*

Lost in the noise and clouds of war is the fact that a formula does exist for resolving all the outstanding issues in our conflict: the implementation of United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, which would lead to the existence of two sovereign national states  Israel and Palestine  which would be the fulfillment of the aspiration of both peoples, Palestinian and Jewish, to statehood based on the 1967 borders, with both capitals in Jerusalem. Israeli and Palestinian negotiators made great progress in their discussions of this solution during the talks that took place between November 1999 and January 2001.Â*

As two people who participated in the negotiations at Taba in January 2001, we can personally testify to having been extremely, even agonizingly, close to reaching an agreement. In our assessment, the main missing ingredient was quality time, as is needed in any negotiation in which both sides must give up what they desire for what is possible.Â*

Over the past year, an impression has been created by some of the participants that the talks at Camp David represented the final word on the search for Middle East peace. This distortion of that event ignores both President Bill Clinton's ideas offered to us in December 2000  ideas that were welcomed by both sides, with each side having different reservations  and the strides forward made at Taba that built on these ideas. In the Taba talks, we progressed, perhaps for the first time, from general principles to specific details, in candid and honest discussions on even seemingly intractable issues like refugees and Jerusalem. Such was the sense of forward momentum at Taba that in a joint closing statement, the Israelis and Palestinians stated that they had "never been closer to reaching an agreement" and that "the two sides are convinced that in a short period of time and given an intensive effort and the acknowledgement of the essential and urgent nature of reaching an agreement, it will be possible to bridge the differences remaining and attain a permanent settlement of peace between them."Â*

It is time now to pick up where we left off. We can build on those discussions and renew that dialogue. We have faith that the overwhelming majority of our citizens, both Palestinians and Israelis, will not only accept such an agreement, but actually yearn for it and understand that it is the only viable solution to the current situation of violence and economic decay.Â*

There are those on both sides who do not share our vision, and, tragically, who see violence as the route to an absolutist  and yet ultimately unachievable and disastrous  end. Unfortunately, time is on their side, not ours. The longer we wait before returning to the table and reaching an agreement, the more blood will be spilled, the more hearts will be hardened.Â*

We must move now to end the dehumanization of the other side and revive the option of a just peace that holds out promise for a future for both our peoples. Both sides have made mistakes over the past year, but we have had our fill of mutual accusations and blame. Finger pointing will not point the way to peace. The immediate need is for the full implementation of the recommendations of the Mitchell Committee, including the cessation of violence, a total freeze on settlement activity, implementation of outstanding agreements and a return to permanent-status negotiations. These steps will need to be monitored by an objective third party.Â*

We and our colleagues have pledged to work together and within our respective communities to rebuild trust and rekindle hope. We call on people of good will throughout the world, and especially in the United States, to help us by adding their voices to our pursuit of a permanent peace between our peoples  a peace allowing both peoples to live in freedom and security as equal neighbors.

---

These two guys started working together for peace after visiting South Africa, where the had talks with the South African president Thabo Mbeki on the South African peace and reconciliation process. The most central lesson beeing that to strengthen the other party economically and socially, not weakening and destabilising them is essential to a trustworthy peaceprocess...

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
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post #351 of 762
well,

personally, i can't tell the diffs between a coptic, a christian, a jew or an arab.... so why don't you help me outsider?

my granny's got a hook nose,

cuss
post #352 of 762
personally, i can't tell the diffs between a coptic, a christian, a jew or an arab.... so why don't you help me outsider?

Are you blind or just stupid. (WTF is a coptic?) And you're mixing totally different things. Chistians and jews are religious groups. Arabs are a race. I can't tell the difference between a christian arab and a muslim arab just by looking at their face. But I could make a pretty good distinction by the way they dress and act. Same for a white christian and white muslim. They dress differently and act differently. And if I'm not mistaken only jewish people wear yarmulkes so if I saw someone with one on their heads I don't think I'll mistake them for a muslim or a christian.
post #353 of 762
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>personally, i can't tell the diffs between a coptic, a christian, a jew or an arab.... so why don't you help me outsider?

Are you blind or just stupid. (WTF is a coptic?) And you're mixing totally different things. Chistians and jews are religious groups. Arabs are a race. I can't tell the difference between a christian arab and a muslim arab just by looking at their face. But I could make a pretty good distinction by the way they dress and act. Same for a white christian and white muslim. They dress differently and act differently. And if I'm not mistaken only jewish people wear yarmulkes so if I saw someone with one on their heads I don't think I'll mistake them for a muslim or a christian. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I have MD friends , jew muslims catholic or agnostic : cannot see the difference by the way they dress : basically we wear the same type of wear. the way they act : they may be some small differences, but you cannot discover them in a glimpse.
For the Kippa (i think you refer to it as yarmulkes) i wear it when i enter in a synagogue for a wedding event : do not make me a jew either.

I admit that what you say is true, when people wear the specifics clothes of their religions, but not everypeople wear the specific clothes or act in a special way.
post #354 of 762
No but where I live there are MANY jews and you can see them by their yarmulkers. Not all jews wear them but we were talking about the situation of in Israel taking a wrong turn and ending up in a Palistinian neighborhood. I'm sure those in that neighrborhood who just look for trouble can pick out a jew 500 meters away.
post #355 of 762
well pal,

we know you can tell the diffs and that's all that counts.

right?

cuss

p.s. B. Boutros-Ghali is a coptic christian.
post #356 of 762
quote:
Jews live there as well, and a jewish peace activist has been the guest of Arafat for the last days.

Man, Israel really needs to take a propaganda lesson from you leftist pinkies. You, and them Arab jackals just totally out class them in every turn. jewish peace activist heheh. Why not call them for what they are? Jewish Arab activists. Or Jewish Arafat activist.


quote
Sources: The numbers in this table are estimates constructed from the following:

quote:
Both on the Balfour Declaration and his version of the Sinai war in 1973 and the following peace. His other historical references are also quite "biased" and reflect the standard zionist way of justifing the occupations

And Im sure when your revisionist "historians" complete their work on the holocaust, youll be there to peddle their non-biased garbage too. Don't unswer. We've already seen your true color...


mika.

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
post #357 of 762
nope now mistah killah,

we do away with the holocaust revisers purty quick... in fact, any city with a pop over say 500k in the US. has a holocaust museum or at least an exhibit running at all times.

peace now brother, right ferkin' now....

cuss

p.s. shrubby put the kybosh on both sides today... you bess' listen up. you bess' start emailin' yer man sharon and tell him that y'alls gotsta live there together, so put the tanks in reverse.... or we'll be over in short order to break shit, pave it over and cover the whole damned region with wal-marts.

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: little cuss ]</p>
post #358 of 762
heheh... cuss, you kill me. forget about new. let's me and you get together.

mika.
post #359 of 762
New, the info in that letter are all correct. You are trying to read into whats right or wrong in the letter based upon what you believe to be true even though its not. That man is not a zionist, he's an Israeli. Not all Israeli's beleive the Palestinians need to be forced out of all the lands. He has worked with palestinians and helped them. If you feel so strongly against Israel that you can dismiss what than man says than theres no point in arguing with you................................
post #360 of 762
quote:
the "poster child" of conflict resolution ...

ok New, read this and tell me if you agree..

<a href="http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/ideas/features/norway.html" target="_blank">http://radio.cbc.ca/programs/ideas/features/norway.html</a>


mika.

[ 04-04-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
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