Violence in Israel/Palestine - Page 3

[quote]Originally posted by steve666:
<strong>&gt;You are inventing History... Isreal started both the six day war (1967), and invaded lebanon in 1982... what about golan? now a part of Isreal?&lt;

Now YOU are inventing history. Israel struck a preemptive attack because the Arabs were planning an invasion. Its called being intelligent and protecting your country. Open your eyes..................</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's correct. I was also noting the Yom Kippur war. There, Egypt invaded Israel. Israel fought back. They gained tons of land and got pretty far into Egypt. The the UN came in and made the Israelis give back the land they had won. That was extremely unfair. They won the land fair and square. They didn't start the war. It would be like the US having to give up the land we won when fighting for Texas.

Thank you Scott H. That article about Purim is the most despicable thing I have ever read. I'm Jewish. The pastries are called Hamentashen. They are in the shape of what supposedly was Haman's hat. They do have a filling, but unless the fruit filling they sell in the stores (like Solo) contains blood, we are clean. The problem is that people are going to believe things like that and the picture in the NY Times. A respectable newspaper like that should know better than to publish something like that. Anyone that says the media in the US is pro Israel is out of their minds.

I still didnt get an answer. To say that they were there in the middle ages means nothing. There were plenty of other peoples there before and after the middle ages. And even by their own account, when the Europeans butchered their way into Jerusalem during the crusade(s), they tell of as many people of Jewish faith being killed as those of Islamic faith. But thats neither here nor there. So again, when exactly did our lands, the lands from which we derive our name, become their land? What claim to Judea Samaria and Gaza do the Arabs have that supercedes the claim of us Jews to this land? What is it exactly that the Arabs did right and the Jews did wrong to have their claim to this land as legitimate and our claim as illegitimate? Whats the historical event that decided this? I really want to know.

mika.

(Also that picture of a father and son is disturbing. The bigots here already scapegoated their usual scapegoats, but has there been an inquiry to find out who truly was responsible for it? Has there been any forensic, or ballistic exams conducted?)

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>

(Also that picture of a father and son is disturbing. The bigots here already scapegoated their usual scapegoats, but has there been an inquiry to find out who truly was responsible for it? Has there been any forensic, or ballistic exams conducted?)

[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes Israel did a whole deal on it. In the end it was a diagram shoing how they were shooting at B from A and they could not see them from A and so hit them while shoting at B!

I read that whole blood article in a Jewish newspaper. It is way over the top. I have never seen any thing like that in the Jewish press.
They go on to talk about the Jewish "Vampires" and such.

What the hell are you saying ... I can't make heads or tails of what you've written. Where did they teach you English? Did they match the bullets or not? Ive never seen any follow up to this story. I cant believe even a leftist Israeli paper would take responsibity for this without a proper investigation.

And I wouldnt put it past the Arabs to pull a stunt like that. Ive lived around them long enough to know exactly the kind of treacherous snakes they are and what little value they place on human life.


mika.

[quote] They won the land fair and square. <hr></blockquote>

With this logic, half of europe would be russian now...

[quote] Did they match the bullets or not? <hr></blockquote>
[quote] And I wouldnt put it past the Arabs to pull a stunt like that. Ive lived around them long enough to know exactly the kind of treacherous snakes they are and what little value they place on human life. <hr></blockquote>

a frence journalist has written a statment, where he says the Israeli soldiers shot with the intention to kill.
A amulancedriver on the way over to the boy and his father was also shot.

And I've written my statement about the French. So don't bring them swine into this. Find something else.

mika.

[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>And I've written my statement about the French. So don't bring them swine into this. Find something else.</strong><hr></blockquote>



For the sake of discussion I´ll try to look at the possibilities for how to deal with the occupied areas. In the areas there are people living who either come from areas either given to Israel in 47 or won by them in wars or have lived in the now occupied areas all their lifes (its not "arabs" that can be exported to other countries in the area). Like I see it there is three solutions:

1) Make the occupied areas a Palestinian country

2) Make them parts of Israel and make the people Israeli citizents.

3) A mix of the two: Israel make the areas part of the country or continue to control it but doesn´t make the population citizens of Israel.

Which do you prefer?

[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>And I've written my statement about the French. So don't bring them swine into this. Find something else.

mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>

doesn't it sound a little xenophobic ?

[quote]Originally posted by powerdoc:
<strong>

doesn't it sound a little xenophobic ?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Maybe he just doesn't like France based on legitimate gripes. Is that so unreasonable? Your country ****s up a lot of shit and ****s over a lot of people. Then it acts like it shit don't stink and bitches about what everyone else does.

[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>

Maybe he just doesn't like France based on legitimate gripes. Is that so unreasonable? Your country ****s up a lot of shit and ****s over a lot of people. Then it acts like it shit don't stink and bitches about what everyone else does.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I rally don't think you are stupid, you just got your own radical ideas. But why the hell would you go and say something that's this stupid? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

[quote]Originally posted by fukuhela:
<strong>

I rally don't think you are stupid, you just got your own radical ideas. But why the hell would you go and say something that's this stupid? :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Huh? Is it so far fetched that people have a ligit grip with France? :confused: Just because someone doesn't like France and says so does not mean they are "xenophobic".

[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>

Huh? Is it so far fetched that people have a ligit grip with France? :confused: Just because someone doesn't like France and says so does not mean they are "xenophobic".</strong><hr></blockquote>

Saying that everything coming from France is irrelevant or is wortheless is xenophobic. You have the right to say that the french governement sucks if you want (but you have to show some proofs) but saying that everything coming from France is s""t his xenophobic (and plain stupid).

[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>

. Is that so unreasonable? Your country ****s up a lot of shit and ****s over a lot of people. .</strong><hr></blockquote>

Replace the word country by your name , and you will have your perfect description.

Ok. Its obvious many of you here are just trolling. And its obvious you trolls dont have the answer to my question. And I wouldnt be in the least surprised, that the same trolls here that would advocate that Jewish towns and villages in Judea Samaria and Gaza be destroyed and their inhabitants removed from those lands, are the same people that will cry such moves advocated by me concerning the illegal occupation of Jewish lands by Arabs as "racist".

However, looking at history books, and seeing how most if not all nations acquired their lands, I do think Israel should take a lesson from these countries, and follow their example. I can assure you theyll have plenty of people willing to help in this endeavor, me included.

mika.

[ 03-14-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>

Congress wants Arafats group labeled "terrorist". Its about ****ing time!

<a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/646648/posts" target="_blank">http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/646648/posts</a>

Terrorists says orders came from Arafat:

<a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/646408/posts" target="_blank">http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/646408/posts</a>

.................................................. ....

Maybe ten years ago Anders, I would have agreed to a limited self-autonomy plan for these Arab populations in Judea Samaria and Gaza. Not today. Today I say to them, you had your chance and you blew it. (No pun intended). Its over. People are wiser now and its only a matter of time before the end game is played. America can push for any kind of agreement she wants. She may even get someone to sign it. But its not going to last very long. The Arabs are living on borrowed time.


mika.

[ 03-15-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>

I understand that thats your position. But I would really like to know what that mean more specific. I have "suggested" three ways. Which one do you prefer and if none of them what then? I especially want to know two things:

1: Who shall govern over Gaza and the West Bank/Judea Samaria?

2: What status shall the palestinians living in those areas have?

Hmm well there are many things that can done..

From a political standpoint, I would start by getting our house in order. If I were running the show, I would refuse to build a government coalition with any left wing parties. (Particularly the Labour party). These parties are morally and politically bankrupt. Their primaries are rigged. And their major voting constituent is anti-Israeli (anti-Zionist/post-Zionist) Jews and Arabs with Israeli citizenships. I would reform the system by requiring all citizens without exception to serve the three (3) years of national service once they reach the age of eighteen (18), and also have them swear an oath of allegiance to the State once they reach that age. For obvious reasons, in the case of the Arabs living in Israel, I would bar them from military participation, and restrict their national service duties to civic projects only.

From a diplomatic standpoint, I would make it clear to the Arabs, particularly Egypt, Jordan and Syria, that there can be no peace between us, as long as they try to use their Arab populations in Judea Samaria and Gaza as a kind of a fifth column to attack us. And I would suspend our membership in the U.N. until this Orwellian institution reforms itself.

From a military standpoint, I would simply declare war. I would try to avoid using ground troops in Judea Samaria and Gaza. This is a densely populated urban area and more suited to siege tactics than anything else. So here I would use the Air Force. I would use the Air Force to disable the electric grid in the area. I would use the Air Force to disable the telephone grid. I would disable the gas and petrol delivery systems. I would target their banking facilities. All this shouldnt take more than a day to accomplish. Furthermore, I would flood their economy with counterfeit currency to completely destabilize their economy. I would create barriers to all goods and people trying to reach the area and make it clear to any Israeli employers that should they get caught with illegal Arab labour, the consequences will be dramatic.

In the event the U.S tries to block the above siege actions diplomatically I would encourage the creation of independent militias. These will operate regardless of the political climate and will take over in the event the regular army cant be used to maintain the siege due to diplomatic pressures.


mika

[ 03-15-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>

Well then you have a lot of work to do! lets get cracking!

Let's clean this thread up ASAP! This is ridiculous:

[quote] So you Arab/French sympathizer, keep wallowing in Arab filth. You seem to like that. I know all too well that you French are the real pigs. <hr></blockquote>

[quote]Can they vote? (or are they to dumb to write or comprehend democracy)<hr></blockquote>

[quote]scott, are you really this stupid?<hr></blockquote>

[quote]Dont you Nazi Arab/Islamasist ever get tired for spiting your hate, lies, deceit and destruction everywhere you go?
<hr></blockquote>

[quote]Being that you are from Denmark I already pretty much know what you're all about. Not much different from the French are you?<hr></blockquote>

[quote]And second, get a life you loser. 770 posts. How depressing.
<hr></blockquote>

[quote]let Arafat and his murderous gangsters in, and then French frogies like you<hr></blockquote>

[quote]Half-breeds like you we can do without.
<hr></blockquote>

[quote]This is the nation of a$$-fu&lt;kers<hr></blockquote>

[quote]Is that so unreasonable? Your country ****s up a lot of shit and ****s over a lot of people
<hr></blockquote>

Youre right Nick. The language is a bit strong. My apologies. And Ill try to be more careful in the future. Although the description of Arafat is I think for the most part correct. But all the same, Ill not use it again. He is a Nobel prize winner after all.

mika.

[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>

right, nick. point taken!

[quote]And I would suspend our membership in the U.N. until this Orwellian institution reforms itself.<hr></blockquote>

You know of course that you have the UN to thank for the creation of the state of Israel?

[quote]However, looking at history books, and seeing how most if not all nations acquired their lands, I do think Israel should take a lesson from these countries, and follow their example. I can assure you theyll have plenty of people willing to help in this endeavor, me included.<hr></blockquote>

again... these are not the middle ages. There wouldn't have been any Isreali state at all if your logic was put to work.

[quote] From a military standpoint, I would simply declare war. I would try to avoid using ground troops in Judea Samaria and Gaza. This is a densely populated urban area and more suited to siege tactics than anything else. So here I would use the Air Force. I would use the Air Force to disable the electric grid in the area. I would use the Air Force to disable the telephone grid. I would disable the gas and petrol delivery systems. I would target their banking facilities. All this shouldnt take more than a day to accomplish. Furthermore, I would flood their economy with counterfeit currency to completely destabilize their economy. I would create barriers to all goods and people trying to reach the area and make it clear to any Israeli employers that should they get caught with illegal Arab labour, the consequences will be dramatic.

In the event the U.S tries to block the above siege actions diplomatically I would encourage the creation of independent militias. These will operate regardless of the political climate and will take over in the event the regular army cant be used to maintain the siege due to diplomatic pressures. <hr></blockquote>

you, my friend, are indeed advocating totaltarian means that can hardly be described as anything but facism... :eek:

[quote]Originally posted by New:
<strong>right, nick. point taken!



you, my friend, are indeed advocating totaltarian means that can hardly be described as anything but facism... :eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually it's not "totaltarian" and not "facism". Those are descriptions of governments. What's described above is a war tactic. A democracy could use siege tactic against a enemy. It may seem like I'm picking nits but I think the misuse of words is a big problem today. In an effort ti "win" an argument people will toss in "nazi" "fascist" or whatever without using the work correctly.

So, you occupy a cerain area for 35 years, you don't give the people who live there their basic human rights, and when they start to "misbehave" you destroy their infrastructure, ability to make a living, economy, social system...

THEN to be able to DISREGARD the world opinion and diplomatic pressure you creat "secret little armies"/ aka paramillitary units to fight you "war" (if this isn't just as terrorist as the HAMAS, then I don't know)...

Which part of this can actually be called a "war" fought by a "democratic" nation?

I didn't call him a nazi. I read the political, the diplomatic, and then more cloesly the millitary standpoint of "KILLA" and simply stated that I considered these views VERY close to facism... If the US had employd similar tactics in Afganistan, there is no telling how many more civilian lives would have been lost...

These are exactly the same tactics used by the nazi occupation force in Europe, Soviet in East-Europe, China in Tibet and Indonesia on East-Timor...

[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>

Trolling again are we New?


Originally posted by New:
quote:
you occupy a certain area for 35 years

Actually its closer to 3500 years.

quote:
when they start to "misbehave"

Nice choice of words. This is the Viking in you talking now?

quote:
"you destroy their infrastructure"

Everything there in terms of infrastructure was build by Israel. And I did say disable did I not?

quote:
THEN to be able to DISREGARD the world opinion

You really have an inflated ego don't you?

quote:
you creat "secret little armies"/ aka paramillitary units to fight you "war"

Nothing secret. Just independent.

quote:
(if this isn't just as terrorist as the HAMAS, then I don't know)

If disabling the electric/telephone grid in the area compares to sending people on mass murder rampages, well, all I can say is that you need help.

quote:
Which part of this can actually be called a "war" fought by a "democratic" nation?

You really need help.

quote:
I didn't call him a nazi. ... These are exactly the same tactics used by the nazi occupation force in Europe, Soviet in East-Europe, China in Tibet and Indonesia on East-Timor

Really? What tactics exactly?
P.S. The seige tactics I outlined earlier are exactly the same as those just recently used by NATO to defeat Yugoslavia in Kosovo. Were you protesting those "nazi" tactics when they were used then New?


mika.

[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]

[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>

The whole middle east problem can be solved by looking at this thread:

<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000899" target="_blank">Should we change our stance on nuclear weapons.</a>

Press one button and our problems are solved.

[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: ThinkingDifferent ]</p>

PC KILLA kicked your ass in this debate, NEW. You should get more accurate info and more educated opinions NEW before you make yourself look sillier than you do now.......................................

I admit that I haven't followed the whole thread but the Jews are no better then the Palestinines.. Each side is blowing away each other.. My opinion is screw them... It's really apparent that both sides don't want peace.. Drop the f'ing bomb on both of them and get it over with.... Christ, how long have they been fighting....

Hmm I feel for ya. But I think thats exactly the kind of response the Arabs propaganda is geared for. I myself am so bored hearing about this day after day, week after week, year after year, you just cant imagine. In fact, although I was a news junky before, I now mostly turn the channel off whenever I hear anything relating to this issue. And I have an obvious reason to stay informed. I can just image what someone who has no connection to this issue must feel... its got to get on your nerves, being bombarded with this stuff day after day after day for so long. But this is what the Arabs want. They want people to be so sick of this that theyll agree to anything that will bring some quiet to that part of the world. No matter how stupid it might be.

But dont worry. This conflict is small potatos on the European scale. Only about a hundred years old. How long have the Europeans been going at each others throat now? a couple of millennia?

mika.

[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>

[quote] Originally posted by New:
quote:
you occupy a certain area for 35 years

Actually its closer to 3500 years. <hr></blockquote>

So the arabs have occupied Gaza and the West Bank for 3500 years?
what about the romans, crusaders, turks and english etc...?

[quote] quote:
when they start to "misbehave"

Nice choice of words. This is the Viking in you talking now? <hr></blockquote>

You know the Vikings discovered America first, so if we can just find a good enough "religious" explanation the whole of the US should be Islandic right now???

[quote] quote:
"you destroy their infrastructure"

Everything there in terms of infrastructure was build by Israel. And I did say disable did I not? <hr></blockquote>

The EU has documented Israeli destruction of EU-development projects in the territories costing over hundred of millions of dollars...

[quote] quote:
THEN to be able to DISREGARD the world opinion

You really have an inflated ego don't you? <hr></blockquote>

maybe? I thought we where gonna stop the personal attacks?

[quote] you creat "secret little armies"/ aka paramillitary units to fight you "war"

Nothing secret. Just independent. <hr></blockquote>

Like the Contras?

[quote] (if this isn't just as terrorist as the HAMAS, then I don't know)

If disabling the electric/telephone grid in the area compares to sending people on mass murder rampages, well, all I can say is that you need help. <hr></blockquote>

I thought this had already been done by Your air force? I was talking about your indipendent militias. If it is one thing the region has more than enough of its indipendent militias, and they are on both sides...

[quote] quote:
I didn't call him a nazi. ... These are exactly the same tactics used by the nazi occupation force in Europe, Soviet in East-Europe, China in Tibet and Indonesia on East-Timor

Really? What tactics exactly?
P.S. The seige tactics I outlined earlier are exactly the same as those just recently used by NATO to defeat Yugoslavia in Kosovo. Were you protesting those "nazi" tactics when they were used then New? <hr></blockquote>

So Nato flooded Yougoslavia with counterfeit currency, threw out the Yougoslavian imigrant labour all over europe, and sent in the militia to do the dirty work?


[quote] Steve 666: PC KILLA kicked your ass in this debate, NEW. You should get more accurate info and more educated opinions NEW before you make yourself look sillier than you do now. <hr></blockquote>

In your eyes Bevis and Butthead would have cleaned the floor with me in this thread...


I had actually hoped to be able to take a more neutral stance here. Usually I find myself both defending and critising both sides in this conflict... but all the "arab-bashing" going on on this thread just can't go by unanswered...
Luckily I have more openminded Jewish friends and family I can talk with off these boards. we actually have conversations about how to solve the this conflict... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />

I think the main problem in curbing the violence is public support. No matter how moderate a muslim may be he still supports the actions of heavily fundimental and militant muslims. No matter how harsh and devistating they may be. Even though they would never do something to that scale, it's accepted. On the contrary Christian love to poke fun and laugh at their ultra fundi and wacko Christians. Maybe that's because they're (christians) so fragmented. The last time christains tried that old trick was during WW2 when the catholics were covering up for Hitler's dirty little secret. But since then they've been bitch slapped repeatedly for their role and it's not even an issue anymore.

PC_KILLA, you have a lot of courage living in Israel. I don't think i could.

HAVE A NICE DAY!

Outsider! There are many Muslims that do not support violence and fundamentalism...
Most muslims are normal people who want peace and a chance to make a living, like the rest of us...

It is also worth noting that a part of the palestinan population and the Palestinian government is in fact christian...

[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>

It is also worth noting that a part of the palestinan population and the Palestinian government is in fact christian...

I know. But they're not the ones doing the killing.

And I know this won't be brought up here, but our supposed allies in Pakistan are throwing grenades into christian churches. AGAIN.

[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>It is also worth noting that a part of the palestinan population and the Palestinian government is in fact christian...

I know. But they're not the ones doing the killing.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And many, in fact the overwhelming majority, of the palestinians, aren´t doing the killing either.

[quote]<strong>And I know this won't be brought up here, but our supposed allies in Pakistan are throwing grenades into christian churches. AGAIN.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And those who do that should be captured and put on trial but I fail to see what that have to do with the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.

Ok. This is my last post here. I really dont have the time nor the patience to conversate with trolls. Anders, I say this to you without malice and as a brother. You have some deep issues you need to resolve about your identity. I hope you dont become defensive about what Im about to say, but I think you need help. For your mother I would recommend watching the movie Sunshine. This is the only movie Ive watched twice other than BladeRunner. Its based on a true story, and is very pertinent to Jews in Europe. Ive lived in Toronto, Canada for six (6) years, so I know the kind of pressures Jews are subjected to. I can just imagine what Jews in Northern Europe are experiencing. But Anders, if you truly are Jewish, you will fight the current and think outside the box. You sound like an intelligent person, so I think you might succeed. Who knows, maybe youll turn into another Einstein, or Freud, or Marks, or Herzl. They all distinguished themselves by creating a new paradigm of thinking. Best of luck to you.

To my Serbian brothers, I am with you and so are many Israelis. We understand Kosovo to you is like Hebron to us. Be patient. It wont be long before the Arab/Islamic empire collapses. Their backward and corrupt society is due. Like I said before, they are living on borrowed time. And when their oil runs out, so will their time.

mika.

[quote]Originally posted by PC^KILLA:
<strong>Anders ... You have some deep issues you need to resolve about your identity. I hope you dont become defensive about what Im about to say, but I think you need help.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Rest assured. Nothing you say about me will ever make me angry, defensive or anything else. It might amuse me but thats all

[quote]<strong>For your mother I would recommend watching the movie Sunshine. This is the only movie Ive watched twice other than BladeRunner. Its based on a true story, and is very pertinent to Jews in Europe. Ive lived in Toronto, Canada for six (6) years, so I know the kind of pressures Jews are subjected to. I can just imagine what Jews in Northern Europe are experiencing.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jews aren´t subject to noticeable discrimination here. When asked what kind of persons people would not want to live next to or have their children marry less people have problems with jews than with muslims, homosexuals, people who smoke, fat people, nervous people, and AFAI remember even people belonging to very religious christian groupings. I´ll find the exact figures next time I´m at Uni. One of my professors just finished the largest survey of the values of the danish population and he asked exactly those questions.

I´m sorry that you are so misinformed about what goes on here but then again it could explain why you are so eager to stigmatize everybody based on what country they come from (like the french) or what religion they believe in (muslims).


[quote]<strong>But Anders, if you truly are Jewish,</strong><hr></blockquote>

I´m not

[quote]<strong>you will fight the current and think outside the box.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Inside the box-thinking is looking at the specific case and say "Jews are always and everywhere persecuted" or "french are stupid frog eaters" or "Palestinians are all terrorists". Persons are prosecuted or terrorist (or frog eaters ). Sometimes Jews are terrorists and sometimes palestinians are the prosecuted. Your arguing clearly shows that you stay quite nicely inside your little box of prejudices. The world may be easier to understand but it doesn´t make it more right.

[quote]<strong>You sound like an intelligent person,</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why, thank you

[quote]<strong>so I think you might succeed. Who knows, maybe youll turn into another Einstein, or Freud, or Marks, or Herzl. They all distinguished themselves by creating a new paradigm of thinking. Best of luck to you.</strong><hr></blockquote>

As I see it we have two ways of thinking about this.
One where you take a "quality" and say that everyone belonging to a special group have this quality. Examples (from different time periodes): All All muslims hate jews, All palestinians are terrorists, all Jews are filthy and all red heads are hot in bed aso.
And another where you say people are what they are not what group they belong to.
The first way of seeing thing is very dangerous. It created the Endlösung, the punishment of families instead of individuals and the demolishing of the house belonging to the family of one of the suicide bomb terrorists. And it also make the children inherit the sins of their fathers (making every Palestine baby born a terrorist and every Israeli born a victim even before they are able to comprehend more than their parents faces)

And all you have said in this thread suggest you are subscribing to that first way of looking at things, perhaps most strongly with the end of your last post:

[quote]<strong>To my Serbian brothers, I am with you and so are many Israelis. We understand Kosovo to you is like Hebron to us. Be patient. It wont be long before the Arab/Islamic empire collapses. Their backward and corrupt society is due. Like I said before, they are living on borrowed time. And when their oil runs out, so will their time.</strong><hr></blockquote>

If you ever find a better way of "thinking outside the box" I´ll listen very carefully. The way you are doing it now belong to the Middle Ages.

I was going to comment on your last 3-4 posts but I think New did a pretty good job and I would only be able to add little to what he said.

[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]

[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>

And many, in fact the overwhelming majority, of the palestinians, aren´t doing the killing either.

That's all very well, but my initial point was that even though the MAJORITY is not doing the killing, the MAJORITY also is not condemning the terrorist actions of the minority that do commit them. This makes the minority think they are fighting the good fight.

[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>And many, in fact the overwhelming majority, of the palestinians, aren´t doing the killing either.

That's all very well, but my initial point was that even though the MAJORITY is not doing the killing, the MAJORITY also is not condemning the terrorist actions of the minority that do commit them. This makes the minority think they are fighting the good fight.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes i never went in Palestine but it certainly true, because it's the case in many country where there is terrorist, Terrorism is feeding himself on hate. That's why if you want to make it disapear, you must fight hate in the population (at the exception of the terrorist of course), any reaction who create more hate in the population is good for terrorists.
This one of the major reason, why it's so hard to struggle with the terrorism. You cannot deal with terrorist, but you can deal with people who just hate you. It's the only solution for peace.

PC*KILLA would be the perfect anti-zionist troll to send out into the world and make everyone feel for the palestinians and hate the israelis.

Unfortunately he is not. He truly IS the representative of the warped way of thinking that israel employs to justify their fascist ways.

Israel should have never been created on palestinian soil. Perhaps a part of Germany would have been more appropriate...

I don't even know if I have any hope left for the region. It seems to me that no level headed leaders will ever be "allowed" to bridge two nations.

And killa, where was that jewish oppression in Toronto? Jeez...

Mat

Israel should have never been created on palestinian soil. Perhaps a part of Germany would have been more appropriate...

Huh? It wouldn't even be Israel if it was located in Germany. Might as well just call it Jewland, but it wouldn't be 'Israel'. Israel is not just the people but the location. That's like saying we should give back to the Ottomans their empire... but make it in Brazil now... yes Brazil is a nice place.