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How Can One Possibly Support Obama's Economic Policies? - Page 4

post #121 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Not to pile on here but that last request may be technically impossible as Kathleen Parker explains... read her whole article... lots of good points!

Obama: Our first female president
By Kathleen Parker
Washington Post
Wednesday, June 30, 2010
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...062903997.html
If Bill Clinton was our first black president, as Toni Morrison once proclaimed, then Barack Obama may be our first woman president.

Somehow I don't think that's what Tonton meant. However I do agree with the way most of the comments on that article lean :

Quote:
lindalovejones wrote:




I wonder how many times Kathleen Parker was called the "B" word when she wrote this garbage.

Obviously, Parker hasn't ever been anywhere near any testosterone.

Btch.



7/1/2010 11:48:07 AM

israelgetty wrote:
I can't believe they pay her to write such junk. I wonder if she has the intellectual curiosity to write a substantive piece of news but I forgot, she's a columnist. This is an insult to women and men. How in the hell does money equate to confidence? Bush was a spoiled rich kid who lacked intelligence and the ability to rely on experts. She did not immediately respond to 911 or Katrina. He talked toughed but in reality he was a goofy idiot.
7/1/2010 11:48:07 AM

repudar711 wrote:
Keep it going Republicans, the Klan and the neocons will be the only people voting for you next elections but I don't see too much difference there.
7/1/2010 11:43:57 AM


lrey52 wrote:
Slow news day or progressive dementia ? The editor must be on vacation .
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post #122 of 753
More good news:

U.S. auto sales slammed by job worries

Demand for homes slumps, impeding recovery

Pending home sales 'fell off a cliff'

Oh and hey, look the DJIA is back to where it was 9 months ago.

And this:

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post #123 of 753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well I'm assuming you are trying to convert the world to your way of thinking like any good republican does.

And the award for most senseless wink-smilie goes to....YOU! I'm not trying to convert "the world" to any way of thinking. I'm saying that the Democrats have created disaster. I'm saying Obama's policies are objectively disastrous, from the economy to the environment, to national security.
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post #124 of 753
And more good news: U.S. Economy Shed 125,000 Jobs in June; Rate Is 9.5%:

Quote:
The United States added just 83,000 private-sector jobs in June, a dishearteningly low number that could add to the growing number of economists who warn that the economic recovery is stalling.


Quote:
The median forecast from economists and economic forecasting firms was that the nation would add 110,000 private-sector jobs. The economy needs to add about 130,000 to 150,000 jobs a month just to keep pace with new workers entering the market. The labor pool is already packed with 15 million Americans looking for work.

The week or so leading up to Fridays report offered a grim rat-a-tat-tat of statistics pointing to a slowing economy. Auto sales were off more than expected, as sales plunged 30 percent in May, a far greater drop than expected. And unemployment claims rose by 13,000 to 472,000, which is far higher than usual if one is looking for signs that private payrolls are growing in a sustained fashion.


Quote:
And just two weeks ago, Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. christened this Recovery Summer, with an emphasis on the jobs created by the administrations $787 billion economic stimulus measure passed in February 2009. In fact, reports have found that millions of jobs were saved or created by the stimulus, but those numbers have been enough, at most, to tamp down the highest peaks of unemployment.

And it is not clear that even this can be sustained.

Many see consumers tapped out, states readying plans to lay off tens of thousands, and now a declining stock market, and they wonder where the economy will derive the fuel for a robust takeoff.

The underlying narrative remains fairly grim, as there are nearly five unemployed people for every job opening, and nearly half of those have been out of work for at least six months. And 3.2 million workers are about to lose their unemployment benefits. If this should occur, Joshua Shapiro, an economist, noted Thursday, it would obviously not be a sign of economic strength.


The worst part? This might lead the Obama administration to try more "stimulus," which has worked so well so far. \

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post #125 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

And the award for most senseless wink-smilie goes to....YOU! I'm not trying to convert "the world" to any way of thinking. I'm saying that the Democrats have created disaster. I'm saying Obama's policies are objectively disastrous, from the economy to the environment, to national security.


Originally by SDW over the years
Quote:
You're hilarious!

Quote:
You're crazy!

Quote:
Liberal lefty

Quote:
Dick

Quote:
There's WMD in there hills!

Ok the last one isn't a direct quote but you get the idea.

Of course you're not. You just want people to believe as you do. Your version of reality.

No thanks.

Quote:
I'm saying Obama's policies are objectively disastrous, from the economy to the environment, to national security



Where were you when we were saying Bush was doing these things?
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post #126 of 753
It is now more than 18 months into Obamatopia (aka Hope and Change) and what change have we seen?

Well...there are a lot less people employed:



And while Obama was fortunate enough to be president during the census so the employment numbers could be (temporarily) "goosed," overall it looks like Obamanomics ain't working out all that well. Mind you, this is no real surprise for those who are conditioned to look at reality and predict how certain actions will actually affect the economy (as opposed to how some might Hope it will).

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post #127 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It is now more than 18 months into Obamatopia (aka Hope and Change) and what change have we seen?

Well...there are a lot less people employed:



And while Obama was fortunate enough to be president during the census so the employment numbers could be (temporarily) "goosed," overall it looks like Obamanomics ain't working out all that well. Mind you, this is no real surprise for those who are conditioned to look at reality and predict how certain actions will actually affect the economy (as opposed to how some might Hope it will).

According to your graph, there were more jobs lost between January '08 and January '09 than there were between January '09 and today.
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post #128 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

According to your graph, there were more jobs lost between January '08 and January '09 than there were between January '09 and today.

And? So job loss slowed a bit from the first part of the recession (December 2007/January 2008 starting point). This would have been expected anyway. But we were sold something different with that stimulus back in January of 2009. Further, there doesn't seem to be any real indication that Obamanomics is leading to any kind of real recovery. This is not surprising at all because the basic economic theory behind their plans is flawed.

To refresh everyone's memory let's look at this chart:



The dark blue line is what was supposed to happen with the "stimulus."
The light blue line is what was supposed to happen if we "just did nothing."
The red dots are what actually happened.
The aqua blue/green line is simply more wishful thinking conveniently fitted to being able to sell a narrative that unemployment is no worse at (2012) election time than when Obama took office.

I know that the common defense of all this is that "things were worse than we though" (uh huh ) and also that "things would have been even worse" than the read dots without the stimulus (yet there is no evidence of this whatsoever.)

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post #129 of 753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Originally by SDW over the years


Ok the last one isn't a direct quote but you get the idea.

Of course you're not. You just want people to believe as you do. Your version of reality.

No thanks.



How does my insulting you equate to trying to convince "the world" of my views? Pick a topic.

Quote:


Where were you when we were saying Bush was doing these things?

Doing what things, exactly?
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post #130 of 753
Never let a crisis go to waste. If the right crisis doesn't materialize then manufacture it. Wanna increase taxes? Then spend the nation into a crisis.
post #131 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Never let a crisis go to waste. If the right crisis doesn't materialize then manufacture it. Wanna increase taxes? Then spend the nation into a crisis.

That would make them evil (rather than merely stupid). I shudder at the thought.

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post #132 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

How does my insulting you equate to trying to convince "the world" of my views? Pick a topic.



Doing what things, exactly?

Because the attitude you're displaying ( and saying ) you think anyone who doesn't believe as you do is nuts. You've said as much.

Get real about this SDW.
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post #133 of 753
It's not paranoia if they really are out to get you!
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #134 of 753
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #135 of 753
I don't think many folks think that Obamanomics has done much, other than accelerate our plunge into debt. The recovery has been very modest, perhaps even weak, compared to prior deep recessions.

One of the rules of thumb is that the deeper and steeper the recession, the greater the growth rates in recovery. So let's look at the numbers:

The recent recession was probably the worst recession since the great depression. Two prior recessions (74/75 and 81/83) were both severe, with the 81/83 downturn as nearly as bad (or as bad) as 08/09.

Accordingly one would expect this recovery to be the most robust of the three. Here are the percentages of GDP growth in the 2nd and 3rd quarters of recovery in each of the three recessions.


74/75 - 7%, 5 1/2%
81/82 - 9%, 8%
09/10 - 5.6%, 2.7%

In other words, the "roaring recovery" (Bob Beckels term) is actually modest to pathetic. Whereas we ought to have growth rates of 8 or 9 percent, we are limping along with 5.6% and 2.7%.

Combine that with the disappointing employment numbers and there is little doubt that Obamanomics has failed. Of course, it is fair to ask if any policy would have worked?
post #136 of 753
John Taylor, Standford macroeconomist, says the stimulus did not work, and according to recent findings no one should have expected it to.
Quote:
Saturday, May 1, 2010

Latest Data Continue To Show Little Impact of Government Stimulus on GDP
The 3.2 percent growth rate of real GDP in the first quarter (released by BEA yesterday) [Max's Note: first quarter growth recently revised downward to 2.7%) confirms that the recovery is looking more U-shaped than V-shaped. But it also provides further evidence that the stimulus package of 2009 has had a small contribution to the recovery. Most of the recovery has been due to investmentincluding inventory investment, which was positive in the first quarter after declining for all of last yearand has little to do with discretionary stimulus packages. The two charts show the percentage contribution of investment and government purchases to real GDP growth in the first quarter and in the preceding quarters since 2007. The charts clearly indicate that the changes in real GDP growth have been mostly due to changes in investment and little to changes in government purchases. In fact, government purchases have been a drag (a negative contribution to real GDP growth) in the fourth quarter of 2009 and the first quarter of 2010. I also include similar charts for the other two components of GDP, consumption and net exports. The government purchases chart looks very similar if you exclude defense spending, as I have in previous posts on this subject.

... in the meantime these data at the least suggest that the simple Keynesian model frequently taught to beginning studentsin which government spending shifts up the aggregate spending line to counteract an investment-induced downward shift in that lineneeds to be reworked.

http://johnbtaylorsblog.blogspot.com...ow-little.html





So why is the Obama stimulus failing?

Quote:
Friday, May 21, 2010
The Administration and the IMF on the Multiplier
In a soon to be published paper, several economists at the International Monetary Fund report estimates of government spending multipliers which are much smaller than those previously reported by the U.S. Administration. In order to obtain the estimates the IMF economists use a very large complex model called the Global Integrated Monetary and Fiscal (GIMF) Model developed by Douglas Laxton and his colleagues at the IMF . The paper is quite technical, but the bottom line summary is that a one percent increase in government purchases (as a share of GDP) increases GDP by a maximum of 0.7 percent and then fades out rapidly. This means that government spending crowds out other components of GDP (investment, consumption, net exports) immediately and by a large amount.

The IMF estimate is much less than the multiplier reported in a paper released last year by Christina Romer of the Presidents Council of Economic Advisers and Jared Bernstein of the Vice Presidents Office. The attached graph shows how huge the difference is. It shows the impact on GDP of a one percentage point permanent increase in government purchases as a share of GDP reported in the IMF paper (labeled GIMF) and in the Administration paper (labeled Romer-Bernstein).

http://johnbtaylorsblog.blogspot.com...ultiplier.html



Are old Keynesian diehards like Krugman, Romer, and Bernstien ready to give up the faith?

Liberalism is, in this case, not "progressive" but old economic myths protected by diehards.
post #137 of 753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Because the attitude you're displaying ( and saying ) you think anyone who doesn't believe as you do is nuts. You've said as much.

Get real about this SWD.

So...anyone who doesn't think like me on every issue is "nuts?" Please, do give examples of how I've demonstrated that attitude.
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post #138 of 753
Does anybody know why the Democrats are suddenly in love with the Fed again?
In the last two years, it was the root of all monetary evils and needed to be audited.

One would think that Democrats, of all people, would be fighting to audit the Federal Reserve.
The Fed, after all, is the heart of the banking system the Dems claim to distrust so much.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #139 of 753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Does anybody know why the Democrats are suddenly in love with the Fed again?
In the last two years, it was the root of all monetary evils and needed to be audited.

One would think that Democrats, of all people, would be fighting to audit the Federal Reserve.
The Fed, after all, is the heart of the banking system the Dems claim to distrust so much.

I think some realize that the Fed throwing money into the system is pretty much the only thing that can save the economy without dramatic fiscal reform. I also think some simply are too ignorant to even care about the Fed. And some are so wrapped up in the progressive agenda/payback for Republicans/Obamamania that they just don't care.
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post #140 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So...anyone who doesn't think like me on every issue is "nuts?" Please, do give examples of how I've demonstrated that attitude.

Oh for god sakes When I have time but you know what you've said ( so many times so it's easy enough to find ) like " You're crazy ", You guys are nuts " etc.
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post #141 of 753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Oh for god sakes When I have time but you know what you've said ( so many times so it's easy enough to find ) like " You're crazy ", You guys are nuts " etc.

1. Examples, please.
2. You realize that me saying "you guys are nuts" is not the same as me saying "anyone who doesn't think like me is nuts." Right?
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post #142 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

1. Examples, please.
2. You realize that me saying "you guys are nuts" is not the same as me saying "anyone who doesn't think like me is nuts." Right?

Sure. Anything you say can mean anything.
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post #143 of 753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Sure. Anything you say can mean anything.

Once again you demonstrate your complete lack of understanding of this little thing called...CONTEXT.

Tomorrow's Lesson: Homonyms 101. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~cellis/heteronym.html
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post #144 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Once again you demonstrate your complete lack of understanding of this little thing called...CONTEXT.

Tomorrow's Lesson: Homonyms 101. http://www-personal.umich.edu/~cellis/heteronym.html

In other words you don't really have a point.
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post #145 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

In other words you don't really have a point.

New drinking game: every time jimmac writes "in other words".

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #146 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

New drinking game: every time jimmac writes "in other words".

Besides making quips your point is........?????
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post #147 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Besides making quips your point is........?????

Mission accomplished.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #148 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

New drinking game: every time jimmac writes "in other words".

I'm already too drunk from taking shots every time he uses the words partisan and Bush.

I'll be dead from cirrhosis if I add that.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #149 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Besides making quips your point is........?????

Sorry guys, I did not intend to give him a new favorite phrase...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #150 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Sorry guys, I did not intend to give him a new favorite phrase...

Just showing you guys another side to things.
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post #151 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Mission accomplished.

Looks like it.
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post #152 of 753
Even the liberal New York Times catching on, finally, to the disaster that Obama has brought to the American jobs and economic front, wondering in their daily politics feature about the disappearing jobs and the steadily increasing unemployment rate... Expect Alexlrod and Gibbs to throw the NYT under a bus shortly =>

Mystery for White House: Where Did the Jobs Go?
July 19, 2010, 12:40 am
The New York Times
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-the-jobs-go/
Unemployment began rising steadily as Mr. Obama, then a senator, wrapped up the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008. That May, the jobless rate increased to 5.4 percent; by December it reached 7.4 percent. In January 2009, Mr. Obamas economic advisers predicted that unemployment would peak around 8 percent if Congress passed their recommended stimulus program. As Republicans never tire of pointing out now, the rate hit 10.1 percent by October and has fallen less than one percentage point since.
post #153 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Even the liberal New York Times catching on, finally, to the disaster that Obama has brought to the American jobs and economic front, wondering in their daily politics feature about the disappearing jobs and the steadily increasing unemployment rate... Expect Alexlrod and Gibbs to throw the NYT under a bus shortly =>

Mystery for White House: Where Did the Jobs Go?
July 19, 2010, 12:40 am
The New York Times
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...d-the-jobs-go/
Unemployment began rising steadily as Mr. Obama, then a senator, wrapped up the Democratic presidential nomination in 2008. That May, the jobless rate increased to 5.4 percent; by December it reached 7.4 percent. In January 2009, Mr. Obama’s economic advisers predicted that unemployment would peak around 8 percent if Congress passed their recommended stimulus program. As Republicans never tire of pointing out now, the rate hit 10.1 percent by October and has fallen less than one percentage point since.



I love this part:

Quote:
With eight million jobs lost since the recession began, “We’re climbing out of a gigantic hole,” said David Axelrod, Mr. Obama’s top political adviser. “Until we fill the hole, we’ll get limited credit.”

It is a very clever piece of polit-o-speak in which one mentioned the 8 million jobs lost as a whole we must now dig out of and conveniently forgets to mention the 3-4 million that have been lost since Obama became President (a substantial number of those after Obamanomics began to be implemented.)

Well it is David Axelrod, he is carrying water for Obama, I should expect him to tell the truth because, right now, the truth is a problem for them.

P.S. The "uncertainty count" for that article is 2. This is what Obama and his people don't get: They have created a huge amount of FUD throughout the American economy. That's a big problem.

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post #154 of 753
Forecast: Federal budget deficit will exceed $1.4T in 2010, 2011:

Quote:
The federal budget deficit, which hit a record $1.4 trillion last year, will exceed that figure this year and again in 2011, according to a White House forecast released Friday.

The $1.47 trillion budget gap predicted for 2010 represents a slight improvement over the administration's February forecast. But the outlook for 2011 has darkened considerably, primarily due to a drop in expected tax receipts from capital gains.

White House budget director Peter Orszag noted in a conference call with reporters that the president's budget is still on track to cut the deficit in half, as a percent of annual economic output, by the end of his first term. As the economy improves, the White House forecasts that the deficit will be just over $700 billion in 2013.

Couple of things to notice:

1. 2012 is conspicuously absent from this news report.
2. The change in the meaning of cutting the budget deficit in half from "cutting the budget deficit in half" to "cut the deficit in half, as a percent of annual economic output". Clever. Wonder if that will fly in people's minds.

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post #155 of 753
More brilliance from Team Obama:

Quote:
That approach, heralded by Obama last week in Detroit and sketched out in a memo to House Democrats as they headed home for the August break, is still evolving and so far focuses primarily on raising taxes on multinational corporations that Democrats accuse of shipping jobs overseas.


But they're at least good a propaganda:

Quote:
Previously known as the "Miscellaneous Tariff Bill," Democrats rechristened it the "U.S. Manufacturing Enhancement Act of 2010."

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post #156 of 753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

More brilliance from Team Obama:




But they're at least good a propaganda:

The fruits of their idiocy are really showing now. Only the most partisan Obamatrons see things as Axelrod and Team Obama state them. The "we inherited this mess" line worked on many people for a long time, even though it was disingenuous to begin with. But now, the evidence is clear: Obama's policies have made the recession far worse, and have cost trillions.

Of course, the Democrat campaign slogan for the fall is "it could have been much worse...we saved the economy." According to the polls, people aren't buying that, either.
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post #157 of 753
Obamas to begin sixth holiday of the year

Quote:
The Obama family will begin their sixth holiday of the year today, an 11-day sojourn in Martha’s Vineyard, the island destination of the wealthy and well-connected American elite.

The Obamas are stimulating the economy of Martha's Vineyard with our tax dollars. Yay!

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #158 of 753
Well here's that word again:

New claims for unemployment benefits jump unexpectedly:

Quote:
The 500,000 unemployment applications submitted nationwide last week were the most in nine months.

Well this was only unexpected to people who don't know how these things work. Let's see what happened just recently that might be connected and even a likely causal factor here?

Oh right, now I remember.

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post #159 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Well here's that word again:

New claims for unemployment benefits jump unexpectedly:



Well this was only unexpected to people who don't know how these things work. Let's see what happened just recently that might be connected and even a likely causal factor here?

Oh right, now I remember.

Tax breaks for the rich and businesses should be contingent on hiring, wage increases and reducing the wage gap. Period. It makes no sense to inject money into businesses to encourage them to hire, just hoping that's what they do with it when they get it. Tell them if they hire, we deduct. If they don't hire, they get nothing.
post #160 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Tax breaks for the rich and businesses should be contingent on hiring, wage increases and reducing the wage gap. Period.

No they shouldn't. Period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

It makes no sense to inject money into businesses...

Since the government doesn't actually "inject" money into anything...it merely steals it and then transfers it...the rest of what you say is built on a false premise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Tell them if they hire, we deduct. If they don't hire, they get nothing.

How about we let businesses decide for themselves how to run their businesses instead of a bunch of fucking power-drunk morons, most of whom have never, ever run a business of any kind and most of who, who have never even worked outside of the tax feeder class.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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