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How Can One Possibly Support Obama's Economic Policies? - Page 7

post #241 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Actually I've pointed out that France generates 70% of their power from nuclear. I've pointed out that when they implement wind power the NIMBYs seem to quickly lose their fights and things get built. I've noted that several Scandinavian countries have no problem pumping every ounce of oil they can out of the ground and selling it to finance programs that benefit the general populace, and finally I've noted that they have fair trade policies as opposed to merely free trade policies.

Those are the pluses to Europe and we ought to follow their examples there.

There are huge negatives though. The PIIGS of Europe are a lot more than just Greece. It stands for Portugal, Italy, Ireland, Greece and Spain. They all are on unsustainable paths. Much like how many Boomers in the U.S. have created a two tier system whereby they will attempt to get their pensions, sell their houses and 401k's to their broke kids or recent immigrants, and have all these folks pay 75% taxes to fund their promised obligations, Europe has done this as well but the problems are even more stark. Their re-population rate is much lower, averaging about 1.6 kids per couple. Their immigrants being mostly Islamic are harder to assimilate than our growing legions of Hispanic friends and lastly the tiers there are even more strident. I'd say as a last measure since race is understood as color in the U.S. but understood as nationality in Europe that must of the E.U. still easily gets away with actions that would be plainly called racist in the United States and there an eyebrow isn't even raised. The cars just burn each night and no one cares.

Simply ask yourself if we really could do what Europe does and also ask yourself if I've supported it or not.

Fair/Managed trade- I've absolutely supported this.

Ending Pax America- I've absolutely supported this and have several posts before Obama was even elected showing how he would be no different than Bush here because trade and empire are both tied together. I've been 100% right on the actions Obama would take.

Ending radical environmental views that say humans must leave land "pristine" aka untouched by humans rather than the view of conservation and management of resources. I absolutely support this and it is clear the left in the United States doesn't. They don't want nuclear power. They don't want wind or solar in their backyard. They don't even want cell towers. They want a carbon tax that will make energy too expensive to use and thus hope that everyone will stop using it. Their philosophy is "if you don't build it, they won't come." This means no real new infrastructure which is why most of the stimulus went to constituencies rather than shovel projects.

I'm not as opposed to Europe as you might think but we also have to view them as a whole. Europe has not embraced stimulus. They have embraced austerity. Denmark has been cutting back unemployment, not extending it yet again like the United States. France has raised their retirement age. Obama's requests for them to take on more debt and engage in more government spending were completely shut down. Most recent government elections have tilted more to the right as people realize the math doesn't add up.

I want you to understand that Republicans as a whole are not against common measures. In fact when I visit most "red" states, the public infrastructure there is much nicer than in the "blue" states from my various anecdotal visits. The problem is when people use intentions, then steal and redistribute the money rather than put it to its proper use. You mentioned in the iPhone forum you might be visiting SoCal soon. I think you would be shocked at the state of the infrastructure here compared to our neighbors and we are the supposedly caring and good intentioned ones with higher gas taxes, auto registrations, etc. Meanwhile in Nevada, Arizona and Utah, you can actually drive the freeways and cities without your wheels being ripped off. I'm not saying it is perfect. Nothing ever is, but I'm saying it is better than California.

Thank you for a well written and well thought-out post.

I agree with you an many points here.

The US does need to invest in nuclear power.

I'm also for raising the retirement age, as you can attest to in a thread I started.

I also think the US needs to cut spending across the board, with the exception of the social policy necessary to maintain an acceptable standard of living for the poor. I think we should temporarily restrict NASA to commercial activities, cut NEA as well as NED funding, severely cut defense funding, let the Bush Tax cuts expire, as they were planned to do.

However, while there are many European Countries that are not much more successful than the US (which is also obviously on an unsustainable path), there are many that are. And they are not all oil countries. Nor is oil ("drill, baby, drill") the answer to the US budget. Right now, people simply aren't spending. The lower and middle classes aren't spending because they can't afford to, and the rich and the profitable businesses aren't spending because they don't have the confidence to spend. In any economy, a lack of spending will stagnate the economy, causing unemployment. No matter how much money you throw at them, businesses won't increase employment when they don't have any demand for expansion, and they will just take the money as profit.

We have to find a way to increase the confidence, both for businesses and for the consumer. An unpopular war is not the answer. Nor is corporate welfare. Nor are tax cuts, as long as they don't benefit the poor as well as the rich. Perhaps we should look in detail at the Kennedy policies that combined both supply and demand stimulants with generally well-recognized success.
post #242 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Fair/Managed trade- I've absolutely supported this.

I agree with almost all of what you've said except this. The problem with the so-called "fair" trade (or managed trade) is that it tends to be protectionism under another name. Fundamentally trade happens between people, not countries. Fairness in trade in those terms can be determined by whether or not any party to the transaction was coerced or the victim of fraud. Beyond that, a voluntary exchange ought to be considered "fair" trade.

Furthermore there is a practical problem here of defining what "fair" is or means. The left has this same problem with "fair wages" or whatever else they want to be "fair." What is "fair" how is this objectively defined? How is it defined at all except by the direct parties to the transactions?

Finally, the real case for free trade is a moral one. It is the case for freedom in general. On what moral grounds should I be allowed to prevent you from entering into an unmolested exchange with, say, tonton (or anyone else)? Rearrange the players anyway you want. Fundamentally "fair" trade or managed trade is simply an argument for some 3rd party to intervene between two other parties to an otherwise free and voluntary transaction. It must be so. This intervention can come in a wide variety of forms including tariffs (forcing people who buy certain products from certain countries to pay more), subsidies (stealing money from some group of people to enable another group of people to buy certain products for less), quotas (limiting the number of products that can be bought), etc.

So I do disagree with you on this point.

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post #243 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I agree with almost all of what you've said except this. The problem with the so-called "fair" trade (or managed trade) is that it tends to be protectionism under another name. Fundamentally trade happens between people, not countries. Fairness in trade in those terms can be determined by whether or not any party to the transaction was coerced or the victim of fraud. Beyond that, a voluntary exchange ought to be considered "fair" trade.

While I can agree in principle, the practical reality here is that there are intermediaries between those parties doing the voluntary exchange and the manipulation that occurs there can be harmful. Most specifically I'm thinking about governmental currency manipulation and government regulation that "conveniently" makes trade one sided. A common example is food that is imported and need to be inspected and the government "conveniently" waits so long it spoils.

Quote:
Furthermore there is a practical problem here of defining what "fair" is or means. The left has this same problem with "fair wages" or whatever else they want to be "fair." What is "fair" how is this objectively defined? How is it defined at all except by the direct parties to the transactions?

Finally, the real case for free trade is a moral one. It is the case for freedom in general. On what moral grounds should I be allowed to prevent you from entering into an unmolested exchange with, say, tonton (or anyone else)? Rearrange the players anyway you want. Fundamentally "fair" trade or managed trade is simply an argument for some 3rd party to intervene between two other parties to an otherwise free and voluntary transaction. It must be so. This intervention can come in a wide variety of forms including tariffs (forcing people who buy certain products from certain countries to pay more), subsidies (stealing money from some group of people to enable another group of people to buy certain products for less), quotas (limiting the number of products that can be bought), etc.

So I do disagree with you on this point.

Again the point is that Tonton and myself might freely enter into an agreement of our own will. If the government under which tonton lives then intentionally devalues their currency relative to mine to give him a 20% advantage, that wouldn't be appropriate. If we've agreed to exchange eggs from my organic chicken ranch for DVD's from his film production crew and the government there declares problems with double the number of my eggs that enter their country than every other country with which I do business, that is a problem. If I discover that when I want to expand my egg ranch to meet his growing film library and DVD production capacity and I discover my loan will be at 5% interest and his loan has repayment terms that would effectively make it a government grant within my own country, that is not equal competition.

The individual persons and companies are not the issue with which I have a problem. It is the governments that cause the problems yet again. Also if there aren't, over an extended period of time, some sort of equitable amount of items being traded, then how can it really be called trade? China holds $2 trillion dollars in reserves due to unbalanced trade. They hold them in reserve for a reason. If they put them back into their own economy and it created demand, that would cause inflation in China and make them less trade competitive as an example. This is an example of a governmental created and maintained trade imbalance. All economic imbalances created by government policy eventually "correct" because regardless of what a government wants, reality intervenes. The likely correct in this instance will be the devaluation of the dollar and the snapback will be much more painful on all sides than it could have been had the correction been done sooner.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #244 of 753

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #245 of 753
I know it's a bit of a stretch putting this one in here but I thought it most appropriate for this forum.

http://www.newsweek.com/photo/2010/0...html?gt1=43002


Quote:
America the Ignorant

I like this one especially :
Quote:
Even years after claims that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction or had links to the September 11 attacks had been debunked, not all Americans were convinced. In a June 2007 NEWSWEEK poll, four years after the invasion of Iraq, 41 percent believed Saddam was involved in 9/11—even though President Bush had said otherwise as early as September 2003. Wild views on 9/11 are in fact still rampant. In September 2009, Public Policy Polling found that a quarter of Democrats suspected Bush had something to do with the attacks. Meanwhile, many Americans also remain convinced that Saddam had WMDs, even though inspectors haven't found any in the seven years since the invasion. Still, as of 2006, half of Americans believed that, according to Harris. Who knows where they got that idea?

I know where they got that idea.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #246 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I know it's a bit of a stretch putting this one in here but I thought it most appropriate for this forum.

A bit of a stretch? Why this thread?

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post #247 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

A bit of a stretch? Why this thread?

Because ignorance is central to the economic plan the Obama administration is implementing.
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post #248 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Because ignorance is central to the economic plan the Obama administration is implementing.

Good point. Thanks.

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post #249 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

A bit of a stretch? Why this thread?

Sorry I just get disgusted at the lack of intelligence displayed here ( economic views aside ). It's why I don't post much anymore. It was also posted in the Darwin thread. And there it did have a direct connection. Did you bother to read it as I'm sure some here at PO are like minded on some items?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #250 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Sorry I just get disgusted at the lack of intelligence displayed here ( economic views aside ). It's why I don't post much anymore. It was also posted in the Darwin thread. And there it did have a direct connection. Did you bother to read it as I'm sure some here at PO are like minded on some items?

I did actually read it. Before you even posted it. The connection to the Darwin thread was more clear and direct. Just didn't get the connection here. But, like Frank777 pointed out since Obama's economic policies are based on ignorance (both his own and that of the American public) that would have been a connection...had Newsweek seen fit to expand its list by a few more items.

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post #251 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I did actually read it. Before you even posted it. The connection to the Darwin thread was more clear and direct. Just didn't get the connection here. But, like Frank777 pointed out since Obama's economic policies are based on ignorance (both his own and that of the American public) that would have been a connection...had Newsweek seen fit to expand its list by a few more items.

Quote:
But, like Frank777 pointed out since Obama's economic policies are based on ignorance (both his own and that of the American public) that would have been a connection...had Newsweek seen fit to expand its list by a few more items

But since we now know you don't have anyone real who could do better that we could vote for it's kind of a moot point now isn't it?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #252 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

But since we now know you don't have anyone real who could do better that we could vote for it's kind of a moot point now isn't it?



Not necessarily.

You could argue that it's hopeless...because we have a president who is trying to run the economy of the country from a core of economic ignorance and we don't have any viable alternatives available to unseat him and get the country back on track. But I don't think it's a moot point primarily because if we can communicate the truth about Obama and his economic ignorance and how this is destroying the country we still have a sporting chance that someone will emerge between now and 2012 who might actually unseat him and begin to undo the damage he's doing. Furthermore, it's even possible for enough people to get elected in 2010 to begin undoing some of it. So I really don't think it's moot point at all.

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post #253 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post



Not necessarily.

You could argue that it's hopeless...because we have a president who is trying to run the economy of the country from a core of economic ignorance and we don't have any viable alternatives available to unseat him and get the country back on track. But I don't think it's a moot point primarily because if we can communicate the truth about Obama and his economic ignorance and how this is destroying the country we still have a sporting chance that someone will emerge between now and 2012 who might actually unseat him and begin to undo the damage he's doing. Furthermore, it's even possible for enough people to get elected in 2010 to begin undoing some of it. So I really don't think it's moot point at all.

Keep waiting for that snowball in summer ok? And MJ lest you forget a great deal of the current damage was done by Bush prior to Obama taking office. Sorry I'm just not going to let you sweep that under the rug.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #254 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Keep waiting for that snowball in summer ok?




Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And MJ lest you forget a great deal of the current damage was done by Bush prior to Obama taking office. Sorry I'm just not going to let you sweep that under the rug.

What makes you think I'm trying to sweep anything under the rug?

Yes, Bush and the Republican controlled Congress's spending was out of control...peak of about $400 billion deficit, then steadily declining until a sharp increase in 2008 after the Democrats took control of Congress.

Yes, the Bush years deficits look downright miserly in comparison to Obama and the Democrat controlled Congress now...average $1.5 trillion deficits.

Yes, Bush and the Democrat controlled Congress's spending was even further out of control...average $400 billion deficits.

Yes, Bush and the Democrat controlled Congress and Hank Paulson's Treasury Department and the Fed and Obama and Timothy Geither's Treasury Department made a huge mistake with the $700 billion Wall Street bailout.

Yes, the recession started in December of 2007 while Bush was president (and after a year of Democrat control of Congress.)

Yes, it was do to a collapse of the housing market bubble created by a variety of factors both before and during the Bush administration and related to both Fed monetary policy (cheap credit) and Congressional policy related to Fannie and Freddie and the CRA.

There's plenty of blame to go around for big government, big spending, distortionary policies, etc.

If anyone is trying to sweep things under the rug it's the liberals and Democrats for their complicity in this mess and their continued implementation of faulty Keynesian policies that are making this whole this worse or, at least, dragging it out further.

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post #255 of 753
Downward revision of GDP growth a strong signal of stalled recovery

I guess "recovery" summer ended early.


And more "good" news:

Bernanke Signals Fed Is Ready to Prop Up Economy

I'm sure nothing bad will come from that. \

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post #256 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

... a great deal of the current damage was done by Bush prior to Obama taking office. Sorry I'm just not going to let you sweep that under the rug.

Sorry... you'll have to do better than that! Obama has shown a singular propensity toward massively damaging our nation through reckless fiscal deficit and blaming it on GWB is disingenuous =>

Health Care Bill : Obama inherits all damage this monster causes! Corporation after corporation has found that they'll be canceling employee health benefits and paying the fine (which will be cheaper) than complying with new government health legislation.

Stimulus : Obama's own entirely; CBO is now backtracking on estimates and nobody can seem to find those millions of jobs "saved or created" and unemployment has stayed steady at 10%. So what was the point?

Deficit : The combined effect of 09/11/01 and Iraq/Afghanistan, carried forward into recession of 2008, led to Bush deficit. Obama has magnified this negative spending into the greatest deficit ever assumed by the nation and Democrats show no sign of stopping the spending.

Bank Regulation : Primary cause of 2008 recession was caused by banks being forced by government regulation to make risky home loans to those unable to pay. Has this situation been fixed? No. But instead Obama has enacted a host of new regulations on banks and many have closed. Yet regs forcing banks to make ill-advised home loans remain.

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac : Secondary cause of 2008 recession was caused by Fannyi/Freddie and Obama has done nothing so far to correct their crooked operating and lending strategy. Each year these two quasi-government entities operate in the red, their manager makes millions, and taxpayers foot the bill. Obama has done nothing here!
post #257 of 753
Ron Paul on the cause of our economic collapse:

"We printed too much money, spent too much money, borrowed too much money, and had too much regulation. So we're trying to solve the problem by printing too much money, borrowing too much money, spending too much money, and more regulation."

He's got a point. Watch the whole segment for better context:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFnDuZIIuoI

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #258 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Ron Paul on the cause of our economic collapse:

"We printed too much money, spent too much money, borrowed too much money, and had too much regulation. So we're trying to solve the problem by printing too much money, borrowing too much money, spending too much money, and more regulation."

Wait. That can't be true, because, first, I was told that the entire economic collapse was a result of our 8 year long experiment with laissez faire free market capitalism foisted upon the country by George W. Bush...and Ron Paul is a senile, doddering old fool who doesn't know what he's talking about.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #259 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Wait. That can't be true, because, first, I was told that the entire economic collapse was a result of our 8 year long experiment with laissez faire free market capitalism foisted upon the country by George W. Bush...and Ron Paul is a senile, doddering old fool who doesn't know what he's talking about.

It's pathetic how left continues to blame Bush for the state of the U.S. economy. Obama has spent more money on his "stimulus" program that has been spent on the entire Iraq war to date. All he has accomplished is to throw the next generation of his country's children into debt.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #260 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

It's pathetic how left continues to blame Bush for the state of the U.S. economy. Obama has spent more money on his "stimulus" program that has been spent on the entire Iraq war to date. All he has accomplished is to throw the next generation of his country's children into debt.

Oh come on now...there's also about another 3 million people unemployed and a lot more uncertainty for business and additional costs coming their way. But he got to go to Martha's Vineyard, so there's that.

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post #261 of 753
Too much regulation had nothing to do with it. It was lack of regulation that allowed big businesses and banks to do what they did. Starting with Enron, and reaching a peak with Lehmann, the truth of the matter is that corporations should not have been allowed to do what they did. Add Fanny and Freddy to the mix if you wish. And then there is the gulf oil spill... mining disaster... none of that should have happened, and we can ony expect more and more to happen with far greater frequency if regulation is further relaxed.
post #262 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Too much regulation had nothing to do with it. It was lack of regulation that allowed big businesses and banks to do what they did. Starting with Enron, and reaching a peak with Lehmann, the truth of the matter is that corporations should not have been allowed to do what they did. Add Fanny and Freddy to the mix if you wish. And then there is the gulf oil spill... mining disaster... none of that should have happened, and we can ony expect more and more to happen with far greater frequency if regulation is further relaxed.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #263 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Add Fanny and Freddy to the mix if you wish...

The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #264 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post


Thought that might get a rise out of one of you.

My point stands. Deregulation and poor enforcement of regulation is part of the reason we're as fucked as we are, economically. Banks and institutions were allowed to fester mismanagement as eyes looked the other way.

Deregulation and poor enforcement of regulation is the entire reason for the mining disaster and the gulf oil spill.
post #265 of 753
Speaking of regulation, one place that REALLY needs it is the financial sector.

I myself recommend they do the following:

1) Require REAL liquidity backing to trade in hedge funds, derivatives, credit default swaps, or other "exotic" investments or just ban them outright as financially too risky.

2) Increase the minimum margin requirements for futures and index trades from 5% to 15%, with a 25% minimum for the following items:

a) Precious metals such as gold, silver, platinum and palladium.
b) Crude oil and certain petroleum products (natural gas, diesel fuel and unleaded gasoline).
c) Certain foodstuffs such as coffee beans, corn, oats, rice, soybeans, tea leaves and wheat.
d) Certain industrial metals such as aluminum, copper, iron, molybdenum, nickel, tin and titanium.

3) Reimpose the 1933 Glass-Steagall Act to "firewall" bank assets from the ups and downs of the stock market.

4) Re-write the Sarbanes-Oxley Act to better balance the need for account reporting and new stock IPO's along with changes in the "mark to market" rule.

5) Require a 30-second delay in execution of computerized buy and sell orders to slow down violent price up and downs caused by lightning-speed computerized trading.

This is what the financial reform bill should have been like.
post #266 of 753
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I know it's a bit of a stretch putting this one in here but I thought it most appropriate for this forum.

http://www.newsweek.com/photo/2010/0...html?gt1=43002




I like this one especially :

I know where they got that idea.


Troll.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #267 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Troll.

Ad hom.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #268 of 753
Riddle me this all "it was deregulation that done it." folks? How can the market be said be to deregulated when the government bails out those that fail?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #269 of 753
You are conflating the cause of the problem with how the aftereffects were handled. Not a very scientific thing to do.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #270 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You are conflating the cause of the problem with how the aftereffects were handled. Not a very scientific thing to do.

Not at all. You appear to be confused. If something is deregulated and then the people or organizations previously governed by the deregulation engage in risky behavior which leads to loss or destruction, and they are rescued from the consequences of their actions and choices, how exactly is that truly deregulation. At best it's only partial deregulation...or a shift in the regulation from one time frame to another.

True free market capitalism requires failure to be allowed to happen. Bailouts are a sign that what we have is not true free market capitalism.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #271 of 753
They didn't know they would be bailed out. They played fast and loose with our money, raped our pensions, and got golden parachutes. They did all this before any hint of a bailout. The cart does not go in front of the horse. Common mistake.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #272 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

They didn't know they would be bailed out.

Some actually did (or strongly suspected). And were right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

They played fast and loose with our money, raped our pensions, and got golden parachutes.

Speaking of fast and loose...you are pretty fast and loose with that word "our." Was you money involved? How? Where?

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post #273 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Some actually did (or strongly suspected). And were right.




Speaking of fast and loose...you are pretty fast and loose with that word "our." Was you money involved? How? Where?

My IRA's value was cut in half because of the stock market crash caused by the unbridled greed of unregulated, unethical, and uncaring corporate leaders. Yes, my money.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #274 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

My IRA's value was cut in half because of the stock market crash caused by the unbridled greed of unregulated, unethical, and uncaring corporate leaders. Yes, my money.

Did it ever occur to you that the value of your IRA was artificially inflated (by Fed monetary policies) to begin with and that its current value reflect a more realistic valuation?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #275 of 753
Spin. Excuse the greed. It's what you do best.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #276 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Spin. Excuse the greed. It's what you do best.

Uh huh. I wasn't excusing any greed at all.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #277 of 753
Sidestepping the issue, turning a blind eye, giving tacit approval...close enough.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #278 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Sidestepping the issue, turning a blind eye, giving tacit approval...close enough.

Not at all. I realize you see it that way. It doesn't make it so. You have demonstrated a frequent habit of demonizing people who do not agree with you. Not to mention assuming their intention and motives. This is another example of that.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #279 of 753
Project much?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #280 of 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Project much?

Nope. You?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
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