or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple sued over use of moisture indicators to deny free repairs
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple sued over use of moisture indicators to deny free repairs

post #1 of 177
Thread Starter 
A San Francisco resident has filed a lawsuit against Apple alleging that the company unfairly declines warranty coverage for its products solely on the basis of triggered moisture sensors, which the suit alleges are unreliable evidence of abuse.

The suit, filed by Charlene Gallion "on behalf of herself and others similarly situated," details that Apple has progressively expanded upon its original warranty exclusion language for iPhone, starting with wording that excluded coverage for "damage caused by accident, abuse, misuse, flood, fire, earthquake, or their external causes."

Subsequent iPhone warranties have specifically added the phrase "liquid spill or immersion" to the exclusion list, while the latest wording now excludes damage "caused by accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair or maintenance by anyone other than an Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider), authorized modification, extreme environment (including extreme temperature or humidity), extreme physical or electrical stress or interference, fluctuation or surges of electrical power, lightning, static electricity, fire, acts of God or other external causes."

Questioning LSI

The suit says Apple's corporate policy "dictates that Apple personnel must refuse warranty coverage to customers who seek a repair or replacement of a Class Device if its external Liquid Submersion Indicator has been triggered."

However, the filing maintains that "in actuality and contrary to what Apple represents to its customers, Apple is aware that external Liquid Submersion Indicators cannot be relied upon to establish with any reasonable degree of certainty that a Class Device has even been exposed (much less damaged by) liquid."

It goes on to claim that independent testing "has demonstrated that Liquid Submersion Indicators can be triggered by, among other things, cold weather and humidity that are within Apple's technical specifications for the Class Devices."

The suit complains that Apple is denying warranty coverage for devices with triggered external Liquid Submersion Indicators without regard to any examination of internal Liquid Submersion Indicator, or any inspection to determine whether there has actually been any damage caused by a liquid spill or submersion.

The plaintiff in the case specifically describes bringing in her non-functional iPhone 3G for service, and being told that she was not eligible for free repair or replacement because a Liquid Submersion Indicator in her phone had been triggered.

She was told she would have to pay $199 for a replacement handset, plus the taxes on its full non-discounted value, and would have to trade in her existing phone to qualify for the discounted replacement. The terms of that replacement policy were enacted last summer.

The plaintiff seeks to bring a class action against Apple, and raises questions of whether "external Liquid Submersion Indicators produce false-positive results," whether they are "designed to produce false-positive results," whether "Apple knew the external Liquid Submersion Indicators produce false-positive results," whether relying on the sensors is "unconscionable," and further claims that Apple may be "subject to liability for common-law fraud," and/or violating a variety of laws related to Liquid Submersion Indicators or the company's other business practices, including its exclusive availability through AT&T in the United States.

From Submersion to Contact

The suit also notes that Apple has started referring to the Liquid Submersion Indicators as Liquid Contact Indicators. Apple began installing the indicators in its notebooks and iPhones in 2008.

In a troubleshooting document written for end users, Apple recommends a sees of steps to try if their iPhone will not power on, followed by the line: "Finally, if the iPhone still will not power on, check to see if the Liquid Contact Indicator (LCI) in the headphone jack or 30-pin connector is activated."

In a support document detailing the moisture sensors on the iPhone and Pod models, Apple says, "iPhone and iPod products are equipped with Liquid Contact Indicators in the bottom of the headphone jack. iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS models also have an indicator on the bottom of the dock-connector housing.These indicators will be activated when they come in direct contact with water or a liquid containing water. They are designed not to be triggered by humidity and temperature changes that are within the product's environmental requirements described by Apple."



The support page adds, "you can tell if the headphone-jack Liquid Contact Indicator has been triggered by looking directly down into the headphone jack. Use a lighted magnifying glass or angle the iPhone or iPod so light shines down into the headphone jack. At the base of the headphone jack, you should see what is normally a white or silver-colored dot. The dot will become full or half red or pink when the dot has come in contact with water or a liquid containing water. To view the dock-connector indicator on iPhone 3G or iPhone 3GS, use a lighted magnifying glass and hold the device so that you can view the center bottom of the dock-connector housing. A full or partial red dot will appear if the indicator has been triggered."

More sophisticated abuse detection circuitry has been patented by Apple for the purpose of collecting information from liquid moisture sensors, thermal sensors, continuity (liquid short) sensors, and physical shock sensors, which would then record an event log that could be used to prevent the company from having to cover damage unrelated to normal part failure or workmanship flaws.
post #2 of 177
I took my new iPhone3Gs back because the GPS was flaky. Sure enough, the genius checked for those indicators.

I'll be interested in seeing how this turns out. I'd like to think the indicators are reliable, as Apple certainly has a right to protect itself from having to reimburse for abused products. I've had my phone colorized, so my warranty is kaput anyway
post #3 of 177
Deny warranty repairs = bigger profits.

I would like someone to test this indicator in a bathroom after a long hot shower.
post #4 of 177
Good stuff, keep Apple honest!!!
post #5 of 177
I agree that Apple deserves to protect themselves. If you drop you're phone in the toilet, you don't deserve a new one on the house. But the headphone Jack? I can't even count the times I've replugged a disconnected and very sweaty headphone cable back into the jack.
post #6 of 177
my 3GS has never been anywhere near any water and I just checked and found that my Dock Connector sensor was triggered...and that is a load of crap

actually most of the time it is in a mophie juice pack air...so the dock connector is rarely open to the elements

so I call crap because I know mine has never been anywhere near getting wet...so they had better hope to god that I never need to get it serviced under applecare because I will ACT A FOOL in the store until the cops come to remove me from the store...

I already DETEST the experience in the Apple Store...it is always a mad house and full of insane kids that have no intention to buy anything

and most of the time the employees don't know anywhere near as much about the products than I do

hell I can take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again in a heart beat...so I know my products...whether mac, ipod or iPhone...so they better check them selves
post #7 of 177
I don't mind them trying to stop people from taking advantage of repairs. However there needs to be a way to make false positives as minimal as possible. I am sure something will come up.
post #8 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by now4real954 View Post

so they had better hope to god that I never need to get it serviced under applecare because I will ACT A FOOL in the store until the cops come to remove me from the store...

So causing a scene and getting detained/arrested will get your phone fixed if you ever have a need to? Some logic you have...
post #9 of 177
There's all kinds of way you can trigger an external moisture sensor without causing any damage at all to the device. If they are refusing warranty service based on a superficial examination then they definitely deserve to be sued. The only way to tell for sure would be to open the device and examine internal moisture sensors and there should be several of them. If there isn't then it would be hard to trust them as well.
post #10 of 177
The only workmanship flaws they should be concerned with are the ones which aren't making these devices water resistant. You know people are going to drop them and they're going to get wet. It's negligent to put something which so commonly gets dropped or wet out in the market without waterproofing it at least to some degree. This goes for all electronics manufacturers of phones and also applies to things like keyboards and mice which are subject to the same sort of "oops"es that happen to phones
Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
Reply
Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
Reply
post #11 of 177
Apple is notorious for ripping people off with out of warranty repairs, especially logic boards, so them trying to weasel out legitimate warranty claims is not surprising. If your Logic board fails they'll charge you $700-1000 for a part they pay $50 and pay a tech $20 an hour for an hour of work to replace. And they seem to have a high rate of failure judging by forum posts. Look for any post asking if you need AppleCare and you'll see all the veteran Mac owners highly recommending it after all the times they've had their Macs fail.
post #12 of 177
Apple won't deny a replacement if only 1 LSI is tripped. (something that has recently changed). If one sensor is tripped, then it's possible it's a false positive. Two tripped sensors isn't very likely to be a false positive.
post #13 of 177
The sensors are well known for providing false positives. It's about time.

There has been a lot of media about this.
post #14 of 177
I don't know really how easy it is to set these off.

Where I live my phone is exposed to rain often as I use it for my job and often take calls while getting from my car to the building I need to be at.

I don't have it in a case and so the headphone port and the Dock Connector are constantly exposed to that rain and I just checked and none of the sensors have gone off. My phone has been drenched at one stage from rain and yet it works perfectly fine.

I think because the iPhone has survived me all this time then it is a very sturdy phone.
post #15 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post

Apple won't deny a replacement if only 1 LSI is tripped. (something that has recently changed). If one sensor is tripped, then it's possible it's a false positive. Two tripped sensors isn't very likely to be a false positive.

How do you know? On what do you base your opinion?
post #16 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

so causing a scene and getting detained/arrested will get your phone fixed if you ever have a need to? Some logic you have...



i would act like a foold and make a sence ! No way am i getting ripped off etc
post #17 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by now4real954 View Post

my 3GS has never been anywhere near any water and I just checked and found that my Dock Connector sensor was triggered...and that is a load of crap

actually most of the time it is in a mophie juice pack air...so the dock connector is rarely open to the elements

so I call crap because I know mine has never been anywhere near getting wet...so they had better hope to god that I never need to get it serviced under applecare because I will ACT A FOOL in the store until the cops come to remove me from the store...

I already DETEST the experience in the Apple Store...it is always a mad house and full of insane kids that have no intention to buy anything

and most of the time the employees don't know anywhere near as much about the products than I do

hell I can take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again in a heart beat...so I know my products...whether mac, ipod or iPhone...so they better check them selves


fully agree with u ! and i wuld do the same !
post #18 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

How do you know? On what do you base your opinion?

My roommate is a genius at an apple store.
post #19 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by now4real954 View Post

I already DETEST the experience in the Apple Store...it is always a mad house and full of insane kids that have no intention to buy anything

and most of the time the employees don't know anywhere near as much about the products than I do

hell I can take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again in a heart beat...so I know my products...whether mac, ipod or iPhone...so they better check them selves

Jeez, who pissed in your cornflakes this morning (don't say Apple)?
post #20 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

The only workmanship flaws they should be concerned with are the ones which aren't making these devices water resistant. You know people are going to drop them and they're going to get wet. It's negligent to put something which so commonly gets dropped or wet out in the market without waterproofing it at least to some degree. This goes for all electronics manufacturers of phones and also applies to things like keyboards and mice which are subject to the same sort of "oops"es that happen to phones

well I also know that if I drop a glass it's going to break. does that entitle me to a new one.. or is it my responsibility not to drop it? or perhaps the glass manufacturers should make their glasses drop resistant... I'm sure glass manufacturers are aware that their products will be dropped from time to time, but they take no measures to prevent me from doing so.

are you saying that if I "oops" spill a mug of coffee on my keyboard and it dies, I'm entitled to a new one.. the keyboard manufactures KNOW that's gong to happen too.
post #21 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by now4real954 View Post

I already DETEST the experience in the Apple Store...it is always a mad house and full of insane kids that have no intention to buy anything

"You darned kids, get off my lawn!"

LOL!

  Google Maps: ("Directions may be inaccurate, incomplete, dangerous, or prohibited.")

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

Reply

  Google Maps: ("Directions may be inaccurate, incomplete, dangerous, or prohibited.")

 

  MA497LL/A FB463LL/A MC572LL/A FC060LL/A MD481LL/A MD388LL/A ME344LL/A

Reply
post #22 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

The sensors are well known for providing false positives. It's about time.

There has been a lot of media about this.

How do you know? On what do you base your opinion?
post #23 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by now4real954 View Post

my 3GS has never been anywhere near any water and I just checked and found that my Dock Connector sensor was triggered...and that is a load of crap

actually most of the time it is in a mophie juice pack air...so the dock connector is rarely open to the elements

so I call crap because I know mine has never been anywhere near getting wet...so they had better hope to god that I never need to get it serviced under applecare because I will ACT A FOOL in the store until the cops come to remove me from the store...

I already DETEST the experience in the Apple Store...it is always a mad house and full of insane kids that have no intention to buy anything

and most of the time the employees don't know anywhere near as much about the products than I do

hell I can take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again in a heart beat...so I know my products...whether mac, ipod or iPhone...so they better check them selves

Here's some news for you man. Your phone came in contact with liquid and you are too weak to admit to: A) Your own faults B) Your lack of perception C) The fact that your phone is not perfectly within eye sight every second of every day and D) That your anger will get you absolutely nowhere at the genius bar as you try to blame it on someone whom you claim is "Trying to take advantage of you."

You can make claims all you want about people who sell computers, but I guarantee you do not know any more than any genius who has worked there for more than a few months. They take these things apart every day repeatedly. Something your arrogance might try to find a fleeting argument against, but will still fail. Plus, if you are taking your phone apart and tampering with it, why would they replace it for you? If you break a connector yourself, why should Apple pay for that? Hell, you're such a pro at taking it apart, why not fix it yourself? Because you can't do it in a cost effective manner while maintaining factory build quality. Might as well get the genius bar swap for $199.

There are 4 sensors on the phone. One red sensor does not automatically disqualify your device from repair. 2 does. They can open your phone and look inside, if it's still wet or internal sensors are tripped, sorry. Take better care of your stuff. If you get splashed and don't notice 1 sensor, ok. If 2 sensors are set off, your phone was wet and if you didn't notice, then it's your fault and you deserve a $199 price tag. We all know liquid and electronics don't mix. Corrosion grows on parts and breaks them. Your fault. I take long, hot showers with my iPhone on the counter every day and my sensors are white as snow.

So take your phone into an Apple store and be a dick. I hope they are dicks right back to you. Get the police in there too, then you can get arrested, spend the night in jail while your car gets towed from the parking lot and then you'll be out a lot more money than your repair would have cost to begin with and you'll still have a liquid damaged phone.

This talk of "I know it never got wet," is what you get when an arrogant person makes the assumption that their own perception of reality precedes everyone else's ability to discern facts.

Grow up.
post #24 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by now4real954 View Post


I already DETEST the experience in the Apple Store...it is always a mad house and full of insane kids that have no intention to buy anything

and most of the time the employees don't know anywhere near as much about the products than I do

hell I can take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again in a heart beat...so I know my products...whether mac, ipod or iPhone...so they better check them selves

hmmm. you know more than they do, so why do you go to a store? I assume the only reason is to get a repair ticket.. in which case you should make an appointment and net deal with the crowds.

if you go in there with the I'm smarter than you attitude, you won't get any help - or you'll pay for it.

I dropped my 3g and broke the glass.. it was well out of any warranty.. but I was really nice to the genius, even a little self deprecating. he took my phone, replaced the glass.. I said how much do I owe.. he said "it's on the house this time" and pointed at the door. those guys have some discretion. I'm sure this lady was a real bitch to the guy.. he said "f*ck you" no repair.

If you're nice.. they might overlook the accidental damage even if there's water dripping from the dock connector.

bottom line is.. when you walk into a store. the interaction is not between you and apple. it's between you and another human being.

if I was the genius, and some tool came in with the same attitude that you're expressing in your comment.. I'd make sure the repair process for you was as difficult as possible.
post #25 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

hmmm. you know more than they do, so why do you go to a store? I assume the only reason is to get a repair ticket.. in which case you should make an appointment and net deal with the crowds.

if you go in there with the I'm smarter than you attitude, you won't get any help - or you'll pay for it.

I dropped my 3g and broke the glass.. it was well out of any warranty.. but I was really nice to the genius, even a little self deprecating. he took my phone, replaced the glass.. I said how much do I owe.. he said "it's on the house this time" and pointed at the door. those guys have some discretion. I'm sure this lady was a real bitch to the guy.. he said "f*ck you" no repair.

If you're nice.. they might overlook the accidental damage even if there's water dripping from the dock connector.

bottom line is.. when you walk into a store. the interaction is not between you and apple. it's between you and another human being.

if I was the genius, and some tool came in with the same attitude that you're expressing in your comment.. I'd make sure the repair process for you was as difficult as possible.

Very well said.
post #26 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo Is Listening View Post

Here's some news for you man. Your phone came in contact with liquid and you are too weak to admit to: A) Your own faults B) Your lack of perception C) The fact that your phone is not perfectly within eye sight every second of every day and D) That your anger will get you absolutely nowhere at the genius bar as you try to blame it on someone whom you claim is "Trying to take advantage of you."

You can make claims all you want about people who sell computers, but I guarantee you do not know any more than any genius who has worked there for more than a few months. They take these things apart every day repeatedly. Something your arrogance might try to find a fleeting argument against, but will still fail. Plus, if you are taking your phone apart and tampering with it, why would they replace it for you? If you break a connector yourself, why should Apple pay for that? Hell, you're such a pro at taking it apart, why not fix it yourself? Because you can't do it in a cost effective manner while maintaining factory build quality. Might as well get the genius bar swap for $199.

There are 4 sensors on the phone. One red sensor does not automatically disqualify your device from repair. 2 does. They can open your phone and look inside, if it's still wet or internal sensors are tripped, sorry. Take better care of your stuff. If you get splashed and don't notice 1 sensor, ok. If 2 sensors are set off, your phone was wet and if you didn't notice, then it's your fault and you deserve a $199 price tag. We all know liquid and electronics don't mix. Corrosion grows on parts and breaks them. Your fault. I take long, hot showers with my iPhone on the counter every day and my sensors are white as snow.

So take your phone into an Apple store and be a dick. I hope they are dicks right back to you. Get the police in there too, then you can get arrested, spend the night in jail while your car gets towed from the parking lot and then you'll be out a lot more money than your repair would have cost to begin with and you'll still have a liquid damaged phone.

This talk of "I know it never got wet," is what you get when an arrogant person makes the assumption that their own perception of reality precedes everyone else's ability to discern facts.

Grow up.


Talk about having your corn flakes pissed on.. How do you know any of this? Have you ever tested the sensors in a lab setting or have any sort of independent proof? It's not hard to imagine someone using their phone in a locker room or another humid environment and having their sensors go off. You shouldn't be so nasty if you don't have evidence to back up your claims.
post #27 of 177
Something will change as it did with the iBook G4 problems years back.


EXACT SAME ISSUE:
Only two days ago, I saw a consumer program in Denmark on tv with people who were unlucky that their iPhones wouldn't be repaired because of the indicators, even though the fault was totally unrelated to humidity.

So the journalists bought one, filmed the salesman undercover for his advice "don't talk in rain, because it is more sensible to humidity than other phones" anyways:
The journalists brought the new phone to an unauthorized iPhone repair shop who was to provoke a fault by loosening a click-on wire so it wouldn't get connection, AND drop a drop of water into the jack so the official dealer would say warranty is void.

They took it back to the official dealer (Telia) who sent it in for repairs, and the shop said, "no-go. it is wet, but we'll offer you this new one for $300 "

Meanwhile, lawyers from the Consumer Council (authority) said that denying to even open and look at fault based on an UNRELATED humidity indicator is ILLEGAL. Point: dismissing it due to an unrelated fault is simply not legal (here).

During the program, it was made clear that Telia did not want to defend themselves or even say anything on the matter, allegedly forced shut by Apple.

In the end of the program, it was said, that Telia had called and they would look at the unlucky customers' (in the program) phones again. One of them was repaired by the unofficial shop though.

---

But the iBook G4 problems years back started with a consumer council suing Apple too if I remember correctly, and in the end, Apple acknowledged the problems and granted swaps or something like that.

I only had the problem with an iBook G3, but I never heard about anyone else with my problem before the G4-thing began, so I just accepted that it was dead (no backlit)

The problem was that the computer died a little more every day, so a connector under the wrist pad should have weight on it to light up the screen (very odd behavior), but I had the display exchanged twice on insurance.
post #28 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post

My roommate is a genius at an apple store.

Confirmed.

It would be foolish to deny based on one sensor.
post #29 of 177
Has anyone compared other smart phone warranties with Apple's?
post #30 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo Is Listening View Post

Here's some news for you man. Your phone came in contact with liquid and you are too weak to admit to: A) Your own faults B) Your lack of perception C) The fact that your phone is not perfectly within eye sight every second of every day and D) That your anger will get you absolutely nowhere at the genius bar as you try to blame it on someone whom you claim is "Trying to take advantage of you."

Given that you have all of one (1) post on this board ever, I'm calling you out as a troll. Perhaps you need to read Apple news and boards a lot more and learn that falsely-triggered moisture sensors in iPhones are so common it's cliche. And that's Apple's fault, not the user's. Basically, via your ignorance, you fail. Badly.

Quote:
Grow up.

Right back at ya.
post #31 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The suit complains that Apple is denying warranty coverage for devices with triggered external Liquid Submersion Indicators without regard to any examination of internal Liquid Submersion Indicator.

I took my iPhone 3GS into the Boulder ARS for a repair, and the Genius checked the external _and_ internal moisture indicators.

He told me that he would check them all, but if the internal had tripped he couldn't warranty it.

I run and cycle, etc, with my iPhone and wasn't surprised that the external indicators were red. The internal indicator had not. Apple fixed my phone under warranty.
post #32 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

How do you know? On what do you base your opinion?

He, like a many of us, reads the Apple news sites and blogs. And he's right--there HAVE been an awful lot of reports of false-positive moisture sensors. It's no "opinion," it's fact. (In spite of what Fox News would have you believe, the two are not the same.) And Apple has been so consistently dicky about these moisture sensors that I'm overjoyed to see this lawsuit. I wish the lady all the luck.
post #33 of 177
I had a PowerBook G4 17" - top-of-the-line. After I got my MacBook, I put the PowerBook on a shelf for several months, then booted it up, noticed it was acting weird, sent it in to AppleCare, and it got rejected because the sensors were tripped, and (they said) there was corrosion inside, indicating to them that something had been spilled on it.

Nothing had ever been spilled on it.

However, the shelf was in my house, which is in a tropical climate where neither heating nor air conditioning is needed, and that climate is humid. And during the time I was actively using the PowerBook, I traveled around the world, through a range of other climates, temperatures, humidity levels, etc.

At no point was the PowerBook subjected to a flood, or a spill, or "extreme" temperature or humidity - but ordinary changes in temperature and humidity, in the ordinary use of a product, can trip those sensors. (For example, going from an air-conditioned office back to my house, or going from a cold, dry work site on a mountain back down to town.)

While I feel for the folks who are out $199 for an iPhone, I had planned to get the PowerBook one final catch-all AppleCare service before the end of its warranty, then sell it secondhand to a friend (and I did have interested friends)... and I dare say it would've fetched quite a bit more than $199.

When I upgraded from the MacBook to a MacBook Pro, I made a point of leaving the MacBook plugged in and waking it up frequently so that it would stay warmer (and drier, I hoped) inside. And whenever I take my current MacBook Pro to a genius bar for something minor, I explicitly ask them whether it looks okay inside - I generally think Apple and AppleCare are the best around, but having had this experience, I absolutely do not want to run afoul of Apple's humidity-sensor policy shenanigans again.
post #34 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowededwookie View Post

I don't know really how easy it is to set these off.

Way too easy.
post #35 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

How do you know? On what do you base your opinion?

I base my opinion on the numerous news stories written about the situation.
post #36 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

if I was the genius, and some tool came in with the same attitude that you're expressing in your comment.. I'd make sure the repair process for you was as difficult as possible.

If I was your manager and I saw you do something like that I would fire you on the spot.
post #37 of 177
Well I've returned phones to the apple store which have a red indicator on the dock.
The phones have never been exposed to water but they've been in a humid bathroom and in my pocket in the summer.

Oh yeah, I live in las Vegas where it gets upwards of 45 C or 115 F quite often and I sweat.
On top of that we go inside/outside and the temps fluxuate between that hot and a cool 72f / 21 C air conditioned condition.

Point is they do get triggered. And apple won't deny you for one of them. But they will b triggered without actual moisture.

As for being rude. Don't.
I took my iMac in and they replaced the logic board for free! It was out of warranty but at one point the extended warranty for iMacs with ati cads applied.
I argued because the tiger-leopard transition caused the actual problem (mire eye candy means overheating faulty gpu) they needed to fix for free. The genius bar manager agreed.
I was humble and nice but was armed with knowledge too.

Apple has great service. People take their phones very seriously though. Maybe more so than other consumer electronics because they use them to communicate so much...
post #38 of 177
I'm sorry but the vast majority of users will lie through their teeth to get free repairs on something they caused damage to. They'll stare at you with cow eyes and swear on their mother's grave they didn't drop the thing in the toilet, really. I don't like the idea of paying even more for my Apple products because of unethical users. As Lex Luthor (Gene Hackman) once said to Superman, "People are no damned good."
post #39 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

I base my opinion on the numerous news stories written about the situation.

When making claims about what you've read in the press, it is considered to be good form to post a couple of supporting links.

I spent about 5 minutes and found several links which would have served the purpose.

You can find a few here: http://www.belowtopsecret.com/forum/thread510940/pg1

I then spent a little more time reading the reports in depth, and could find nothing more than reports from people claiming "I never got it wet" or "I took a hot shower and the sensor turned red!".

I'm not saying that the sensors might not be prone to false positives, but the lack of scientific evidence to be found (during my short research) makes me suspect that the problem lies with the users.

Electronics do not like moisture. You should do everything in your power to avoid getting your phone, any phone, damp.
post #40 of 177
I've always been a bit skeptical about the moisture sensors, especially the external ones. First, I'm not convinced that something designed to turn color from contact with moisture can't be activated by simply being exposed to normal ambient humidity. Secondly, I question the value of an external moisture sensor, since incidental external contact with a liquid that could trigger such a sensor doesn't necessarily indicate an incident that would in any way affect the operation of the device.

(I'd love to see a technical analysis explaining exactly what Apple's sensors are made of and how they work. Are they only triggered by water, so that you could submerge the phone in 100% ethanol and not trigger them? Can they be deactivated with, for example, heat? do they activate only from instantaneous contact with enough liquid to completely cover them or can small amounts -- like humidity, or high humidity, or aerosolized water -- activate them over time?)

On the other hand, I can certainly see people dropping their iPhone in the sink (or worse), letting it dry out for a few days, and taking it to the Apple store and saying, "It just quit working." An external sensor is useful in that sense: if it isn't triggered, the device was definitely not submerged, and probably not in contact with a significant amount of liquid. But, if Apple is denying warranty coverage solely on the basis of external sensors being activated, I see that as a problem. An activated internal sensor could be cause to deny coverage, but I'd want to see some explanation of how these work before I would express an opinion on that.

That being said, my external sensors are all negative, but I don't live or work in a particularly humid environment, nor do I use my phone -- iPhone or previous phones -- in the rain. I do keep it in my pocket in the summer, but avoid getting into a muck sweat as much as possible.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple sued over use of moisture indicators to deny free repairs