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Apple sued over use of moisture indicators to deny free repairs - Page 2

post #41 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

So causing a scene and getting detained/arrested will get your phone fixed if you ever have a need to? Some logic you have...

Good way to stir up attention in the media - I'd go straight to the papers - easy to sell copy.

"Man arrested at Apple store trying to get service on product, denied by Apple."

That's link-bait gold - probably even get a headline here.
post #42 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo Is Listening View Post


So take your phone into an Apple store and be a dick. I hope they are dicks right back to you. Get the police in there too, then you can get arrested, spend the night in jail while your car gets towed from the parking lot and then you'll be out a lot more money than your repair would have cost to begin with and you'll still have a liquid damaged phone.

Grow up.

Good thing you don't write policy or PR. You're making the lawyers drool. Keep talking - there's gold in your attitude, and it's not for Apple. Good press too.

Keep it up. I dare you. I DOUBLE DOG dare you!
post #43 of 177
All phone manufacturers use them apart from the cheapest phones where the cost of the sensors is too high e.g. $30 phones.

Usually they are located in the battery compartment.

They have been around for at least 10 years.

Apple is acting no differently to any other phone manufacturer in regard to this issue.

This will fail.
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post #44 of 177
All of these don't qualify as "scientific," but here are a couple of tests that were conducted in Belgium and Poland, respectively:

http://translate.google.com/translat...ari%26rls%3Den

http://translate.google.com/translat...y/&sl=pl&tl=en


It's worth keeping in mind that it's NOT incumbent upon the consumer to test their iPhones for moisture to get the benefit of the warranty -- or extended warranty -- they paid for when an LSI is triggered. Apple has the right to deny warranty claims if a device is damaged by liquid, just as it has a right to include external sensors to signal a potential problem. But as the party that is relying on the exclusion, APPLE -- not the consumer -- has the duty to prove the existence of damage first.

Another article worth reading is the experience of a Techgeist reporter: http://techgeist.net/2009/09/apple-i...ors-abusing-2/
post #45 of 177
This is a fine story I suppose, but the fact is that every manufacturer does it.
Every time I call Verizon for a warranty replacement on a user phone, they ask me to check the moisture indicators and remind me that if it gets back to the service center and they're triggered...I'll be billed full price for the replacement.

This is true no matter what brand of smart phone (we don't have any dumb phones in inventory) I call about; BB, Moto, Palm, etc.
post #46 of 177
I have a 2.5 year old alum iMac.
The HD started to act up. It just wouldn't start, unless I left it completely cool off.
The screen had the vertical ripples in it.
And, the mouse scroll wheel was dead for the second time.

I took it to the Apple Store.
Where, I bought a 2 TB Western Digital external drive, and did a total Time Machine backup.
Then,
Apple took over (after helping me with all that), it took a few hours, and I just walked the mall.

They replaced my 320GB HD with a new 500 GB, loaded with Snow Leopard. They put in a new LCD screen and glass, and of course, gave me another new mouse.
Total cost to Applecare = just under $1000.00
I just bought the external drive, (which I should have anyway).

I consider myself lucky, ,to have had my data saved, and, yes, I recommend AppleCare.

Be well...

Pete
post #47 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

(I'd love to see a technical analysis explaining exactly what Apple's sensors are made of and how they work. Are they only triggered by water, so that you could submerge the phone in 100% ethanol and not trigger them? Can they be deactivated with, for example, heat? do they activate only from instantaneous contact with enough liquid to completely cover them or can small amounts -- like humidity, or high humidity, or aerosolized water -- activate them over time?)

FWIW, I've heard reports of them being activated by being taken out of heavy AC and into a humid outdoors. Or by being used in the gym, while exercising.
post #48 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I've always been a bit skeptical about the moisture sensors, especially the external ones. First, I'm not convinced that something designed to turn color from contact with moisture can't be activated by simply being exposed to normal ambient humidity. Secondly, I question the value of an external moisture sensor, since incidental external contact with a liquid that could trigger such a sensor doesn't necessarily indicate an incident that would in any way affect the operation of the device.

Well, if other posters are correct in that there are internal sensors as well, I think the value of the external sensors is obvious. If you go in for a repair, and the external sensors are not tripped, the store employees only need about 30 seconds of your time before they can approve a warentee replacement. If the system is rational (as some have suggested and others contested) an external sensor positive would force a more carefull examination of the internals of the device and not lead to an automatic refusal of warentee.

All I really know is my experience about a month ago. I took my phone in, and because the external sensors were not tripped, the replacement process was lightning quick and I was happy.
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post #49 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Apple is acting no differently to any other phone manufacturer in regard to this issue.

People see at least two differences:

Apple puts the sensors directly adjacent to holes in the case, whereas other companies put them where you said, in the battery compartment.

Apple is accused of inappropriately denying warranty claims, which is not the case with others.

The entire accusation is that Apple is NOT acting like the industry norm, or even fairly.
post #50 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

Apple is notorious for ripping people off with out of warranty repairs, especially logic boards, so them trying to weasel out legitimate warranty claims is not surprising. If your Logic board fails they'll charge you $700-1000 for a part they pay $50 and pay a tech $20 an hour for an hour of work to replace. And they seem to have a high rate of failure judging by forum posts. Look for any post asking if you need AppleCare and you'll see all the veteran Mac owners highly recommending it after all the times they've had their Macs fail.

I've bought AppleCare for my iMac.

but NEVER for my iPhone!
post #51 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Well, if other posters are correct in that there are internal sensors as well, I think the value of the external sensors is obvious. If you go in for a repair, and the external sensors are not tripped, the store employees only need about 30 seconds of your time before they can approve a warentee replacement.

Well, yes, I did mention that further on in my post. I should have been more clear that I was questioning their value as a positive indicator.
post #52 of 177
This was the only time I walked out of a store swearing I would never go back. I had been using some instrument that you blow on the mic on the phone, and well, no warranty. The manager at the store took delight in exxolaining that any moisture was moisture, that it didn't matter.

A call to apple care the next day took care of it, and I am pretty sure the manager is gone now.

I am glad to see that someone is making progress on this front.
post #53 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

The only workmanship flaws they should be concerned with are the ones which aren't making these devices water resistant. You know people are going to drop them and they're going to get wet. It's negligent to put something which so commonly gets dropped or wet out in the market without waterproofing it at least to some degree. This goes for all electronics manufacturers of phones and also applies to things like keyboards and mice which are subject to the same sort of "oops"es that happen to phones

Perhaps Apple will coddle your inability to manage your portable electronics and offer a waterproof version for say a mere $1k. People spend ten times or more on watches.
post #54 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

People see at least two differences:

Apple puts the sensors directly adjacent to holes in the case, whereas other companies put them where you said, in the battery compartment.

Apple is accused of inappropriately denying warranty claims, which is not the case with others.

The entire accusation is that Apple is NOT acting like the industry norm, or even fairly.

Excuse me? You want a waterproof product then start a petition. You drop your phone in the toilet it's your problem.
post #55 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

hmmm. you know more than they do, so why do you go to a store? I assume the only reason is to get a repair ticket.. in which case you should make an appointment and net deal with the crowds.

if you go in there with the I'm smarter than you attitude, you won't get any help - or you'll pay for it.

I dropped my 3g and broke the glass.. it was well out of any warranty.. but I was really nice to the genius, even a little self deprecating. he took my phone, replaced the glass.. I said how much do I owe.. he said "it's on the house this time" and pointed at the door. those guys have some discretion. I'm sure this lady was a real bitch to the guy.. he said "f*ck you" no repair.

If you're nice.. they might overlook the accidental damage even if there's water dripping from the dock connector.

bottom line is.. when you walk into a store. the interaction is not between you and apple. it's between you and another human being.

if I was the genius, and some tool came in with the same attitude that you're expressing in your comment.. I'd make sure the repair process for you was as difficult as possible.

agree with your comments, If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk. Btw I changed my iPhone 6 times during the warranty period, due faulty batteries twice and to be honest my fault twice, since dropped the iPhone, but it did not cause enough damage to show on indicators, but software went loopy. The other 2 times, we could not work out what was the issue, but syncing was not working. Anyway my point is I know my store manager very well now and we have a laugh and joke about it all the time. He checked the indicators, but always got me a new replacement phone without even a discussion.

Now I am being offered a 3GS at discount rate to upgrade my phone by store manager, not a routine discount, beleive me.
post #56 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy288 View Post

Deny warranty repairs = bigger profits.

I would like someone to test this indicator in a bathroom after a long hot shower.

had my 3GS replaced a week ago. i used it while giving my son a bath and with water on my hands and no sensors turned pink or red. i think you have to literally pour water in there or lay it in water to trip it
post #57 of 177
I am surrounded by iPhones. I have one here that was dropped in water, just briefly, by a co-worker and sure enough both sensors are red.

All of the others, even my own that is always in my sweaty pocket, are fine. Not a single sensor tripped, not a little, not at all. I am surprised actually. I expected to see more of them tripped.
post #58 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

If I was your manager and I saw you do something like that I would fire you on the spot.

If I was your boss, I would reprimand you behind closed doors, for not correcting the action, with retraining to staff for such actions. Firing someone cost more money to get new staff and train.

Btw Firing someone on spot in store full of customers sends the wrong message
post #59 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

had my 3GS replaced a week ago. i used it while giving my son a bath and with water on my hands and no sensors turned pink or red. i think you have to literally pour water in there or lay it in water to trip it

But, but... people on the internet!! They said that just being in an air conditioned room will set it off!!!


Kind of amuses me, like people have said before, EVERY smartphone has a sensor, and EVERY carrier checks them, and will deny you warranty service if they're tripped. Yet, Apple's the bad guy.
post #60 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvsteven View Post

As for being rude. Don't.
I took my iMac in and they replaced the logic board for free! It was out of warranty but at one point the extended warranty for iMacs with ati cads applied.
I argued because the tiger-leopard transition caused the actual problem (mire eye candy means overheating faulty gpu) they needed to fix for free. The genius bar manager agreed.
I was humble and nice but was armed with knowledge too.

Apple has great service. People take their phones very seriously though. Maybe more so than other consumer electronics because they use them to communicate so much...

I have had nothing but great service. My iMac logic board failed outside of Apple Care and the extended warranty. I called and made a case. They agreed to pay for parts ($800) if I paid for labor ($100). They tried two boards and couldn't fix it. They called me and said "We can't repair it. Do you mind if we just give you a new one?". Brand new iMac Alum for a 4 year old iMac. Better yet, they allowed me to count the retail value of my swap as a credit against anything in the store, so I upgraded to the top-of-the-line.

Second story: I took in a dead Nano. They said the moisture indicator had tripped. It's never been wet, but certainly sweaty. It was dry as a bone sitting on my desk the day (and days before) it failed. In any case, they swapped it.
post #61 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

Apple is notorious for ripping people off with out of warranty repairs, especially logic boards, so them trying to weasel out legitimate warranty claims is not surprising. If your Logic board fails they'll charge you $700-1000 for a part they pay $50 and pay a tech $20 an hour for an hour of work to replace. And they seem to have a high rate of failure judging by forum posts. Look for any post asking if you need AppleCare and you'll see all the veteran Mac owners highly recommending it after all the times they've had their Macs fail.

And they are just as "notorious" for repairing/replacing computers after the warranty has ran out.
post #62 of 177
Yes, actually acting up generally does get results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

So causing a scene and getting detained/arrested will get your phone fixed if you ever have a need to? Some logic you have...
post #63 of 177
I have a 4 year old Palm Tungsten T3 PDA. I play music in the restroom during long hot showers all the time. Still works. No moisture indicators. No product glitches. No need for warranties. Check out user reviews for Apple products on Amazon. Quite a few complaints of product failure after minimal moisture exposure.

Perhaps Apple should just build a better product. Oh, that's right. It would cost an extra $2 per unit. That comes out of profit. My bad. Nevermind.
post #64 of 177
Quote:
hell I can take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again in a heart beat...so I know my products...whether mac, ipod or iPhone...so they better check them selves

How would one be able to do that (i.e., "take an iPhone completely apart and put it back together again") without ever cracking the case, thereby voiding the warranty?
post #65 of 177
I am a stock holder and generally love Apple products. Further, I have had generally good service from Apple (although sometimes I have had to take an issue up the chain of company all the way to the top). Accordingly, I hate to see the company sued.

I, however, think this suit isn't frivolous at all and I will be interested to see how credible the Court will find the third party evidence suggesting the indicators aren't reliable. Myself, I suspect the indicators aren't always reliable and that they should only be a used by Apple as a flag to look at such devices more carefully.
post #66 of 177
Yes, and because everybody does it makes it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

EVERY smartphone has a sensor, and EVERY carrier checks them, and will deny you warranty service if they're tripped. Yet, Apple's the bad guy.
post #67 of 177
What does your issue have to do with indicator lights? Apple care generally has a good reputation. That doesn't mean it is not acting unfair in this instance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOutlaw View Post

I have a 2.5 year old alum iMac.
The HD started to act up. It just wouldn't start, unless I left it completely cool off.
The screen had the vertical ripples in it.
And, the mouse scroll wheel was dead for the second time.

I took it to the Apple Store.
Where, I bought a 2 TB Western Digital external drive, and did a total Time Machine backup.
Then,
Apple took over (after helping me with all that), it took a few hours, and I just walked the mall.

They replaced my 320GB HD with a new 500 GB, loaded with Snow Leopard. They put in a new LCD screen and glass, and of course, gave me another new mouse.
Total cost to Applecare = just under $1000.00
I just bought the external drive, (which I should have anyway).

I consider myself lucky, ,to have had my data saved, and, yes, I recommend AppleCare.

Be well...

Pete
post #68 of 177
Over the years, (about 12) I have nothing but praise for the folks at the San Francisco Apple store. I have never had to take my laptop in, however my late daughter had to take her IPod in several times. Even though a few times it was clearly her fault that the IPod failed, they alway replaced it, and extended the warranty to boot. Great service! I do also however question the sensors though, My Macbook (2006) has been everywhere; Outside in 40 below temps in Minnesota to 130 in Needles, CA where I live now. Still lives on. Just checked my IPod Touch, all is good. But my Macbook? who knows what any sensors would say.
post #69 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by merlinw View Post

Over the years, (about 12) I have nothing but praise for the folks at the San Francisco Apple store. I have never had to take my laptop in, however my late daughter had to take her IPod in several times. Even though a few times it was clearly her fault that the IPod failed, they alway replaced it, and extended the warranty to boot. Great service! I do also however question the sensors though, My Macbook (2006) has been everywhere; Outside in 40 below temps in Minnesota to 130 in Needles, CA where I live now. Still lives on. Just checked my IPod Touch, all is good. But my Macbook? who knows what any sensors would say.

My old iBook G4 14" was basically replaced, piece by piece from all the problems it had and under AppleCare it was all replaced and still runs OS X 10.4 daily.

However, as a mechanical engineer I'm well aware of the tolerance level of electronics and your temperature differentials are outside that temperature range. I would expect my warranty to be voided if I was using in such extremes seeing as the operating temp specs and storage ranges are clearly listed by Apple:

http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html

Electrical and Operating Requirements
for MacBook and MacBook Pro
Quote:
  • Line voltage: 100V to 240V AC
  • Frequency: 50Hz to 60Hz
  • Operating temperature: 50° to 95° F (10° to 35° C)
  • Storage temperature: -13° to 113° F (-24° to 45° C)
  • Relative humidity: 0% to 90% noncondensing
  • Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet
  • Maximum storage altitude: 15,000 feet
  • Maximum shipping altitude: 35,000 feet

For the Iphone:
http://www.apple.com/iphone/specs.html

Environmental requirements
Quote:
  • Operating temperature: 32° to 95° F (0° to 35° C)
  • Nonoperating temperature: -4° to 113° F (-20° to 45° C)
  • Relative humidity: 5% to 95% noncondensing
  • Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet (3000 m)
post #70 of 177
This story is actually very interesting to me because it was not to long ago that I took my black iPhone 3G to the genius bar due to the plastic backing developing cracks to see if i could get it replaced, which from what I understood at the time, apple had realized there was some fault in the plastic that caused the backings of some iPhones to develop small hairline cracks not caused by abuse or misuse.

So i go to the apple store and tell the genius about the cracks. first thing he does is take out his little light and checks my sensors only to tell me that one of my sensors was activated and therefore my warranty was void and the cracks which apple had acknowledged as a problem was no long their problem because my liquid sensor was activated.

This kind of made me mad for multiple reasons. First off, after the genius told me i questioned him about this whole sensor thing and he told me that the only way the sensor would go off was if my phone was fully submerged in liquid. Now this was probably the most retarded statement i had ever heard because first off, i know full well that my phone hasn't been submerged in any kind of liquid, and according to this "genius" that baby would have to be completely submerged in liquid for the sensor to trip, which I can only assume that if my iPhone had actually of been fully submerged, I would have some other serious problems going on with my phone like i don't know it not making calls or working functionality wise.

I tried to point this out to him saying, well my phone works fine, its just that I paid all this money and baby it to death and it looks like shit cuz of something apples production dicked up with. It just made me mad that i came in there with a cosmetic issue with my phone, and because of some sensor which according to apple, only triggers when fully submerged, not only am i stuck with a defective product, but my warranty is completely Null.

I truly believe that these sensors are just a way for apple to get out of warrantys.
The last keynote that debuted iPhone OS 4 said what, like 64 million iPhones sold to date?
That's a lot of iPhones and a lot of warrantys, why not make life easier and weed out a few warranties on people who actually use the phone for its intended purpose.

I read online that just exercising and sweating can cause the sensor to trip, I hope this case goes somewhere because i will definetley jump on the bandwagon. I wouldn't be so mad about the whole thing if I actually did drop my iPhone and fully submerged it, but to someone who takes care of their technology and makes sure it is always safe, being told that I had to have dropped my phone into a liquid source which fully engulfed it, kinda pisses me off.

/end rage

post #71 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

But, but... people on the internet!! They said that just being in an air conditioned room will set it off!!!


Kind of amuses me, like people have said before, EVERY smartphone has a sensor, and EVERY carrier checks them, and will deny you warranty service if they're tripped. Yet, Apple's the bad guy.

Here's the thing that gets me about the location of apples water sensors. Look at any other cell phone/smartphone. Generally the water sensors are located internally, a lot of times near the battery. For example I know the razr's sensor is on the battery pack underneath the backing of the phone.

Most all phones water sensors are kept internally inside the actual phone and are not really, or at all exposed to the open/air.

The iPhones sensors are both extremely accessible and extremely open to the environment and air. One at the dock connector and the other in the head phone Jack.

I just find it interesting that most other phones seem to be perfectly fine with their concealed and less open water sensors but yet such stark controversy on apples sensors which in my opinion are very very vulnerable and accessible to the elements then other phone water sensors.

Food for thought.
post #72 of 177
on my 32GB 3GS with battery issues. The phone was effectively not idling, so it had a nice unusable battery standby of say, 2-3 hours.

I had previously gotten it a bit wet (minor splash from a glass of water), but as soon as I mentioned it to the store, they basically told me my options were limited, and to get a replacement I'd have to shell out $200 (which is the subsidized price, not full price, $500).

I argued with them for quite a bit, but then realized that this would get my out of my contract.

I decided to get the replacement phone, and I am very careful with it now (no setting it near glasses of water, for example)... still wonder what it'd take to trip the sensor; I wonder if putting in my workout bag with sweaty clothes is gonna screw me.
post #73 of 177
I can tell you from experience there are A LOT of people who do stupid things, or have stupid things happen to their devices and then lie about it to the Genius/Specialist and then get belligerent when they're called on it. There are also people who legitimately have an issue, and didn't violate their warranty, but there are by far the minority and usually are easier to spot out.

If you've done any sort of work at all with repairing or diagnosing Apple products it becomes evident almost half the time at a prima face glance that someone is lying. If a device really has been dunked in water, or dropped onto a hard surface you can deny it all you want, but the truth is right there in front of you. I understand no one likes having bad things happen to them, and most of the time the damage is unintentional ... just man up to it, and you're half way to a better experience when you go in for service.

I can't even count how many times I would open up computers or iPods and all the components would either be completely corroded or still covered in moisture, and the owners who get angry and continue to emphatically deny their device had ever come in contact with liquid. Its one thing when its an ambigous reading on a moisture sensor ... its another when theres a half cup of water still inside your device. They would swear up and down it had never been within a thousand miles of water, and I was trying to "cheat" them. Thats not exactly the best way to get someone to want to help you ...

Others are more comical yet more annoying. There was a person who brought in their three year, four month old computer that had been smashed into pieces, and then proceeded to tell us that not only was Apple to blame for it, but we also had to replace it with a brand new 15" MacBook Pro (she had a 15" PowerBook) and recover all the data and preinstall all her lost programs. We when we confronted her with the fact her computer had no AppleCare on it, that even if it had been covered by AppleCare; 1) AppleCare wouldn't cover accidental damage, and 2) any AppleCare she could have purchased for it would have expired four months prior. She became belligerent and started a diatribe about how Apple had "cheated" her, and it was ridiculous, and she was going to sue us personally and Apple ... blah. blah, blah.

Her view might seem melodramatic, but it is rather evocative of a common trend of customer who bring their devices in for repair -- the attitude that someone bad happened to their device that isn't covered under warranty, but Apple should still be required to fix it for free. And we're talking about some pretty spectacular and comprehensive damage in some cases. I found that car analogies tended to work quite well in getting the point across. I told this woman, "Could you buy a new car from a dealer, drive it for three years and four months, then get in an accident and take it back to the dealer and damand that they fix it for free?" Then she started going off on how cars have insurance and that AppleCare is like insurance, so it should be covered. Of course, then I had to point out that car insurance is specifically designed for covering accidents whereas AppleCare was simply an extension (not indefinite) of the factory warranty. "It's not like you can buy an iMac, walk out the door, then smash it on the sidewalk, walk back in, and say 'I'd like to have to repaired for free.'" "Why not?" she said. "Because accidental damage is not covered by AppleCare." She insightfully responded, "so if I intentionally damage my computer I AM covered!" "No," I said "if you intentionally damage your computer you're an idiot."

THESE are the type of people that cause Apple to take these actions, and they are far more common than you might believe. It was far more refreshing, and I was more inclined to help the ones that would at least tell the truth -- sometimes though the damage was so extensive there wasn't any way to help them.

If you go in and say, "Look, I know this isn't covered, but I was using my iPod and I dropped it, and now the touch interface doesn't work anymore." 9 times out of 10 the genius will try everything they can think of to fix it (within what they're allowed to do). If you come in and say "I bought this last week and now the touch screen doesn't work anymore, and you better fix it for free (even though you know you dropped it" the genius will only do as much as is required, and send you on your way with your broken iPod.

Usually, people who do or have stupid things happen to their things will find some way to blame it all on someone else no matter how much it was their own fault. I can remember;

1) The lady who tried to convince me her soft plastic cover for her solid aluminum MacBook Pro had caused the uniform 15 degree bend down the center of her computer.

2) The man who told me his iPod Touch was defective because the sides of the device did not respond to input.

3) The person who dropped their 24" iMac when they got home, and smashed the screen into oblivion - yet somehow it was Apple's fault.

4) The lady who accused me of breaking her computer when I opened it in front of her and the logic board was covered in milk ... "I didn't do that," she said "YOU did!"

5) The man who peeled back to sides to his aluminum PowerBook because he couldn't figure out how to replace the hard drive, and demanded Apple fix the damage, and replace the casing.

I could go on all day ...
post #74 of 177
Having worked in the mobile phone industry for nine years I can tell that stories like these aren't confined to Apple.

Taking personal responsibility for damaging something seems to be a hard thing for people to do.

btw the gaps where a battery cover inserts into a phone provide ample space for moisture laden air to enter and condense, tripping moisture sensors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd View Post

I can tell you from experience there are A LOT of people who do stupid things, or have stupid things happen to their devices and then lie about it to the Genius/Specialist and then get belligerent when they're called on it. There are also people who legitimately have an issue, and didn't violate their warranty, but there are by far the minority and usually are easier to spot out.

If you've done any sort of work at all with repairing or diagnosing Apple products it becomes evident almost half the time at a prima face glance that someone is lying. If a device really has been dunked in water, or dropped onto a hard surface you can deny it all you want, but the truth is right there in front of you. I understand no one likes having bad things happen to them, and most of the time the damage is unintentional ... just man up to it, and you're half way to a better experience when you go in for service.

I can't even count how many times I would open up computers or iPods and all the components would either be completely corroded or still covered in moisture, and the owners who get angry and continue to emphatically deny their device had ever come in contact with liquid. Its one thing when its an ambigous reading on a moisture sensor ... its another when theres a half cup of water still inside your device. They would swear up and down it had never been within a thousand miles of water, and I was trying to "cheat" them. Thats not exactly the best way to get someone to want to help you ...

Others are more comical yet more annoying. There was a person who brought in their three year, four month old computer that had been smashed into pieces, and then proceeded to tell us that not only was Apple to blame for it, but we also had to replace it with a brand new 15" MacBook Pro (she had a 15" PowerBook) and recover all the data and preinstall all her lost programs. We when we confronted her with the fact her computer had no AppleCare on it, that even if it had been covered by AppleCare; 1) AppleCare wouldn't cover accidental damage, and 2) any AppleCare she could have purchased for it would have expired four months prior. She became belligerent and started a diatribe about how Apple had "cheated" her, and it was ridiculous, and she was going to sue us personally and Apple ... blah. blah, blah.

Her view might seem melodramatic, but it is rather evocative of a common trend of customer who bring their devices in for repair -- the attitude that someone bad happened to their device that isn't covered under warranty, but Apple should still be required to fix it for free. And we're talking about some pretty spectacular and comprehensive damage in some cases. I found that car analogies tended to work quite well in getting the point across. I told this woman, "Could you buy a new car from a dealer, drive it for three years and four months, then get in an accident and take it back to the dealer and damand that they fix it for free?" Then she started going off on how cars have insurance and that AppleCare is like insurance, so it should be covered. Of course, then I had to point out that car insurance is specifically designed for covering accidents whereas AppleCare was simply an extension (not indefinite) of the factory warranty. "It's not like you can buy an iMac, walk out the door, then smash it on the sidewalk, walk back in, and say 'I'd like to have to repaired for free.'" "Why not?" she said. "Because accidental damage is not covered by AppleCare." She insightfully responded, "so if I intentionally damage my computer I AM covered!" "No," I said "if you intentionally damage your computer you're an idiot."

THESE are the type of people that cause Apple to take these actions, and they are far more common than you might believe. It was far more refreshing, and I was more inclined to help the ones that would at least tell the truth -- sometimes though the damage was so extensive there wasn't any way to help them.

If you go in and say, "Look, I know this isn't covered, but I was using my iPod and I dropped it, and now the touch interface doesn't work anymore." 9 times out of 10 the genius will try everything they can think of to fix it (within what they're allowed to do). If you come in and say "I bought this last week and now the touch screen doesn't work anymore, and you better fix it for free (even though you know you dropped it" the genius will only do as much as is required, and send you on your way with your broken iPod.

Usually, people who do or have stupid things happen to their things will find some way to blame it all on someone else no matter how much it was their own fault. I can remember;

1) The lady who tried to convince me her soft plastic cover for her solid aluminum MacBook Pro had caused the uniform 15 degree bend down the center of her computer.

2) The man who told me his iPod Touch was defective because the sides of the device did not respond to input.

3) The person who dropped their 24" iMac when they got home, and smashed the screen into oblivion - yet somehow it was Apple's fault.

4) The lady who accused me of breaking her computer when I opened it in front of her and the logic board was covered in milk ... "I didn't do that," she said "YOU did!"

5) The man who peeled back to sides to his aluminum PowerBook because he couldn't figure out how to replace the hard drive, and demanded Apple fix the damage, and replace the casing.

I could go on all day ...
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
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post #75 of 177
Damn. should have sued apple when my iPhone cocked up.
post #76 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by easy288 View Post

Deny warranty repairs = bigger profits.

I would like someone to test this indicator in a bathroom after a long hot shower.

It would fail, but then it should as the phone will have been outside the humidity limits quoted by Apple. It would prove nothing!
post #77 of 177
I bet this problem is prevalent in the US where you go from an air conditioned environment to the warm humid atmosphere outside such as in Florida. It is a bit like taking a can of coke out of the fridge - condensation will form inside and out.
Wll I have my G5 so I am off to get a life; apart from this post...
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Wll I have my G5 so I am off to get a life; apart from this post...
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post #78 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevejr View Post

Talk about having your corn flakes pissed on.. How do you know any of this? Have you ever tested the sensors in a lab setting or have any sort of independent proof? It's not hard to imagine someone using their phone in a locker room or another humid environment and having their sensors go off. You shouldn't be so nasty if you don't have evidence to back up your claims.

And if the sensors did go off in that situation then Apple would be within their rights to refuse to repair it - AS IT WILL HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE THE LIMITS OF HUMIDITY SPECIFIED FOR THE DEVICE!!!
post #79 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

FWIW, I've heard reports of them being activated by being taken out of heavy AC and into a humid outdoors. Or by being used in the gym, while exercising.

And in those situation IF the phone passed through the limits specified by Apple for humidity then they would go off, correctly!
post #80 of 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post

agree with your comments, If you act like a jerk, you get treated like a jerk. Btw I changed my iPhone 6 times during the warranty period, due faulty batteries twice and to be honest my fault twice, since dropped the iPhone, but it did not cause enough damage to show on indicators, but software went loopy. The other 2 times, we could not work out what was the issue, but syncing was not working. Anyway my point is I know my store manager very well now and we have a laugh and joke about it all the time. He checked the indicators, but always got me a new replacement phone without even a discussion.

Now I am being offered a 3GS at discount rate to upgrade my phone by store manager, not a routine discount, beleive me.

So you committed fraud! Shame on you.
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