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Confirmed next-gen Apple iPhone seen in person, disassembled - Page 10

post #361 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

WTF? Four links that don't have anything to do with a lack of cease and desist letters? That do not, in anyway explain the lack of photos showing it turned onbefore the subsequent letter (not a C&D) was sent?

Did you read the post you replied to before posting 4 links to the same letter, which was unrelated to either of the two questions asked?

Hey, Tulkas, how've you been?

mjohn68 thinks these aren't actual images of an actual iPhone:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjohn68 View Post

If these are actual images of an actual iPhone, then why don't we see it turned on?
If they were real wouldn't Apple be issuing Cease and desist letters to these sites that posted the pics?

The four links showed him that the "actual images of an actual iPhone" are real enough that Apple Senior VP and General Counsel Bruce Sewell asked for the actual device back.

The C&D isn't going to happen because you basically can't get that genie back into the bottle.

FWIW, my guess is that Brian Lam, Jason Chen and Nick Denton are going to wish they got a C&D from Apple Legal. My guess is that what's going to go down is going to be a bit more serious than a C&D letter.

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post #362 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Hey, Tulkas, how've you been?

mjohn68 thinks these aren't actual images of an actual iPhone:

Maybe. What he asked in his post, that you replied to was:

If these are actual images of an actual iPhone, then why don't we see it turned on?
If they were real wouldn't Apple be issuing Cease and desist letters to these sites that posted the pics?



Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

The four links showed him that the "actual images of an actual iPhone" are real enough that Apple Senior VP and General Counsel Bruce Sewell asked for the actual device back.

yes they do. Which wasn't what he asked, in the post you replied to. Hence my question if you read the post to which you replied.


Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

The C&D isn't going to happen because you basically can't get that genie back into the bottle.

FWIW, my guess is that Brian Lam, Jason Chen and Nick Denton are going to wish they got a C&D from Apple Legal. My guess is that what's going to go down is going to be a bit more serious than a C&D letter.

C&D will help if they have additional information that is yet unpublished. Also, when other sites have in the past released photos of leaked Apple products, hell, even just descriptions, Apple has sent C&D letters to have the info removed and launched lawsuits to enforce them. Useless, yes, just a historic precedent nonetheless.

You are right, they might wish for the C&D. I mean, making a boat load of cash on the extra hits, having the value of their site go up because of high interests stories like this (sort of like why MacRumors, AI became so popular). Yep, lots of regrets.

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post #363 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

WTF? Four links that don't have anything to do with a lack of cease and desist letters? That do not, in anyway explain the lack of photos showing it turned onbefore the subsequent letter (not a C&D) was sent?

They said the software on the device was killed remotely, likely on connecting to a network for the first time - prototype devices have those types of controls in case a unit goes missing. They weren't able to put other software onto it. They could only get it to boot into recovery mode, which is not worth photographing really.
post #364 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

They said the software on the device was killed remotely, likely on connecting to a network for the first time - prototype devices have those types of controls in case a unit goes missing. They weren't able to put other software onto it. They could only get it to boot into recovery mode, which is not worth photographing really.

I know. mjohn68 asked why Apple didn't issue C&D and why there were no photos of it turned on. I just thought the answer was irrelevant to those questions.

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post #365 of 395
C&D isn't the be-all-end-all. That's hardly the only legal avenue available to Apple, esp. with every other blog storing their own copies of pictures of the device.

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post #366 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Am I really the only one that thinks that the ONLY break in the frame edge could be for an IR transceiver? I'd at least like a rational answer as to why Apple would never include one in the iPhone

Solip, there are TWO breaks in the frame edge, not one. The other is on the lower left hand side.
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post #367 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

Solip, there are TWO breaks in the frame edge, not one. The other is on the lower left hand side.

It really only looked like one to me with the other being points for the backing. With a mic, headphone jack, silent button and volume buttons on that side, plus the fact that Apple has never done a user-replacemable battery on any iDevice, and now not even on Mac notebooks, it seems that a user replaceable battery is the most unlikely thing to expect. Not to mention that battery was not protected in the way a user-replacable battery should be.
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post #368 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It really only looked like one to me with the other being points for the backing. With a mic, headphone jack, silent button and volume buttons on that side, plus the fact that Apple has never done a user-replacemable battery on any iDevice, and now not even on Mac notebooks, it seems that a user replaceable battery is the most unlikely thing to expect. Not to mention that battery was not protected in the way a user-replacable battery should be.

I'm not arguing with the suggestion that break on top might be for an IR transceiver. I hope it is - it would certainly be a useful hardware addition.

Likewise I'm not suggesting that the existence of 2 breaks in any way means that the unit will be user "openable". In fact I think that's highly unlikely.

Just making sure that we get our facts right :-)
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post #369 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

...and they can release them in measured/calculated intervals to ensure that the buzz keeps its momentum.

Just like you called it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

Yes, that's all I'm saying. 'that photo isn't any sort of proof'.

Gizmodo reported "multiple" Apple labeled components. If they can see em, they can shoot em.

Have you gotten enough proof yet?
post #370 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

Just like you called it.


Have you gotten enough proof yet?

Turns out they couldn't shoot some of the parts, as getting to them would mean breaking it and they did not want to risk that.

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post #371 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It really only looked like one to me with the other being points for the backing. With a mic, headphone jack, silent button and volume buttons on that side, plus the fact that Apple has never done a user-replacemable battery on any iDevice, and now not even on Mac notebooks, it seems that a user replaceable battery is the most unlikely thing to expect. Not to mention that battery was not protected in the way a user-replacable battery should be.

Their last articles state that it is no way user accessible (the battery). The users would have to get by a pile of screws and disconnections to get to it. Guess that clears that up.

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post #372 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Their last articles state that it is no way user accessible (the battery). The users would have to get by a pile of screws and disconnections to get to it. Guess that clears that up.

It was clear before that. The battery had not shell to make it user replaceable and everything about the break point locations indicated that it could't be a door. And that is before you consider Apple's long standing reasons for not offering a user-replacable battery and the direction they are moving with their notebooks.

I think some people are going to continue to expect it year after year.
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post #373 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcode View Post

People are really playing up the possibility of a leak - keep in mind:
  1. If you so much as send a txt msg to a friend about an unreleased product while working at Apple - you're fired.
  2. If you leave your work station without covering up the secret hardware you're working on, with the secret black blanket - you're fired (some projects are to be worked on, only while under the blanket, never to be exposed to the eyes of another employee).
  3. If you go through a secured door without swiping your card (ride along on someone else's swipe) - you're fired.
  4. If you refused to relinquish all your digital belongings, including private cell phone, laptop, email credentials, etc - when suspected of sending a txt about an unreleased product - you're fired!

Not to mention, functional prototypes of unreleased devices are kept in the level 4 security, R&D section of the Apple campus. You cannot take anything inside the level 4 doors - no usb drives, no cell phones, no laptops - nothing. If you require information or data, you send it electronically through approved channels so that it can monitored. You cannot exit level 4 with anything other than the clothes you brought in, having to pass through metal detectors and empty ones pockets.

Top-level executives are given restricted access to only the sectors required to effectively do their job - if your job doesn't entail top-level R&D, you'll never see the secured R&D sector - period.

Do you honestly believe that a prototype device got out from under the secret blanket, out of the secured doors, through the metal detectors and security tag detectors (yes, Apple is known to add security tags to prototype hardware), through 3 more levels of security, off the campus and then in a simple bit of drunken stupidity, was left unattended for even a split second?!?

Not just improbable - so improbable that it borders on impossible. When was the last time a completed, operational Apple product was leaked (all hardware and software together)? If I recall correctly, it was never.

Indeed, if it's actually an Apple device, it was planted. If it's not, it sure did get everyone talking - what can be said for sure is, it's certainly not the top-secret device that will be making waves this June.

I've worked in government facilities that have more security than that. And they have the legal powers to do a lot more than fire you. Yet, facilities like that have lost information that's far more vital than an iPhone prototype.

Unless you are absolutely intimately aware of how Apple handles field testing, you can't be 100% sure that the devices never leave the campus (thus opening them up to greater risk of loss or theft). And if the UK SIS (or MI6 from the old days) can leave Top Secret files on Al Qaeda and Iraq in a briefcase on the London Tube, I am willing to accept that it's in the realm of possibility for an Apple engineer who was allowed to take the prototype off campus for a defined period of real-world testing, to lose it on a night out on the town.

I don't know if it's an intentional leak or not. All I am saying is that nobody can say definitively one way or another.
post #374 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

I've worked in government facilities that have more security than that. And they have the legal powers to do a lot more than fire you. Yet, facilities like that have lost information that's far more vital than an iPhone prototype.

Unless you are absolutely intimately aware of how Apple handles field testing, you can't be 100% sure that the devices never leave the campus (thus opening them up to greater risk of loss or theft). And if the UK SIS (or MI6 from the old days) can leave Top Secret files on Al Qaeda and Iraq in a briefcase on the London Tube, I am willing to accept that it's in the realm of possibility for an Apple engineer who was allowed to take the prototype off campus for a defined period of real-world testing, to lose it on a night out on the town.

I don't know if it's an intentional leak or not. All I am saying is that nobody can say definitively one way or another.

You have to wonder about these people that believe 1) Apple security is perfect and could never fail and 2) unreleased Apple products never leave their facilities.

How exactly to these people think the devices are field tested? Do the think Apple has magic pixie dust that makes lab testing qualify as field testing?

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post #375 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

You have to wonder about these people that believe 1) Apple security is perfect and could never fail and 2) unreleased Apple products never leave their facilities.

How exactly to these people think the devices are field tested? Do the think Apple has magic pixie dust that makes lab testing qualify as field testing?

The fact of the matter is that Apple has been very sucessful.. (up 'till now) ..in keeping its releases secret until the moment of release.

That is hugely difficult and requires a massive effort on the part of a lot of people.

What is surprising is not that this leak has happened, but rather that is has never happened before.

C.
post #376 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

The fact of the matter is that Apple has been very sucessful.. (up 'till now) ..in keeping its releases secret until the moment of release.

That is hugely difficult and requires a massive effort on the part of a lot of people.

What is surprising is not that this leak has happened, but rather that is has never happened before.

C.

Apple probably has the best security of any company in the world. Likely competitive to government facilities. Leaks happen from government facilities too. But, Apple products, especially the iPhone, requires testing outside of their facilities. Once it outside, mistakes can happen.

I am not surprised it hasn't happened before, but it had to happen sometime. Apple is staffed with people and people make mistakes. I am surprised at people who think it couldn't happen to Apple, simply because it is Apple.

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post #377 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Apple probably has the best security of any company in the world. Likely competitive to government facilities. Leaks happen from government facilities too. But, Apple products, especially the iPhone, requires testing outside of their facilities. Once it outside, mistakes can happen.

I am not surprised it hasn't happened before, but it had to happen sometime. Apple is staffed with people and people make mistakes. I am surprised at people who think it couldn't happen to Apple, simply because it is Apple.

I'm surprised that they let these phones out like that at all. I would have expected them to be on day trips with at least two people so that corporate espionage would be less likely. After this they might start doing that and put in in a case that is handcuffed to your wrist.
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post #378 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm surprised that they let these phones out like that at all. I would have expected them to be on day trips with at least two people so that corporate espionage would be less likely. After this they might start doing that and put in in a case that is handcuffed to your wrist.

Even the 1st gen, one of the most protected products in their history had to be let out. They even had to give AT&T access to multiple units to test across the country and in different environments, for months of testing prior to launch.

To field test it in real world conditions requires certain constraints to be removed.

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post #379 of 395
It's too bad iFixit, iSuppli or anandtech didn't get in on the teardown. I'd love to know more about this device. Anyway, there's always July....
post #380 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Even the 1st gen, one of the most protected products in their history had to be let out. They even had to give AT&T access to multiple units to test across the country and in different environments, for months of testing prior to launch.

To field test it in real world conditions requires certain constraints to be removed.

Why does AT&T need to get these phones to test? Apple can test to see if their phones are working properly or not. They might have asked for AT&T's help because they had no prior experience in cellular technology at the time, but I can't image them just giving AT&T a bunch of phones and hoping they don't into the enemy's hands, though we are talking about 6 months between announcement and release so there isn't much that needs to be hidden, while this new phone still hasn't been announced.

I'm pretty sure there will be a policy change coming out of this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

It's too bad iFixit, iSuppli or anandtech didn't get in on the teardown. I'd love to know more about this device. Anyway, there's always July....

I'm quite surprised iSuppli hasn't already made claims to the BOM cost of the HW based on Gizmodo's photos.

I don't think AnandTech would have been so sleezy as to buy the device or tear it apart. If they had found it I think they would have returned it and asked that they could get free Apple products ahead of time in the future for testing purposes, like other tech writers get. That would have been a better long term solution, IMO.

iFixit would have done crazy things to it and would have detailed the teardown in a pleasant, systematic way, not the Swedish Chef feel you get from looking at Giz's photos.
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post #381 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm surprised that they let these phones out like that at all. I would have expected them to be on day trips with at least two people so that corporate espionage would be less likely. After this they might start doing that and put in in a case that is handcuffed to your wrist.

Maybe they wanted to see what drunk 27 year old engineers would do with it on their birthday?

Jokes aside. Even if you are Apple you have to trust your people. In my line of work, I have carried highly classified documents internationally. It's nerve-wracking to have a spend days holding on to highly classified stuff. Do you not eat out, or grab a beer at all while you have that on you? I would hope that I would not be as careless as this fellow with such property. But having been in a similar situation, I do sympathize with him. We are all human. We all make mistakes.
post #382 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Why does AT&T need to get these phones to test? Apple can test to see if their phones are working properly or not. They might have asked for AT&T's help because they had no prior experience in cellular technology at the time, but I can't image them just giving AT&T a bunch of phones and hoping they don't into the enemy's hands, though we are talking about 6 months between announcement and release so there isn't much that needs to be hidden, while this new phone still hasn't been announced.

I'm pretty sure there will be a policy change coming out of this.

AT&T and every major carrier has to field test the phones and devices they will be selling on their network. Apple probably wouldn't be given a choice in the matter, though they could undoubtably use their clout to influence or control how that testing is carried out. Before the original iPhone was released, Apple didn't have this same clout, so if AT&T had to have the units for testing, then Apple wasn't in a position to refuse. AT&T VP of something or the other stated at launch of the original iphone that they had been field testing units in all manner of locations for 'months' before launch. So, I guess at least 2 months.

At this point in time, AT&T probably still requires test devices before launch, but Apple probably has much more ability to control how, where, when and by whom. Doesn't eliminate AT&T's need to test them, but they are no longer in the driver seat for things like this.

One policy change almost certain: no drinking while testing.

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post #383 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

AT&T and every major carrier has to field test the phones and devices they will be selling on their network. Apple probably wouldn't be given a choice in the matter, though they could undoubtably use their clout to influence or control how that testing is carried out. Before the original iPhone was released, Apple didn't have this same clout, so if AT&T had to have the units for testing, then Apple wasn't in a position to refuse. AT&T VP of something or the other stated at launch of the original iphone that they had been field testing units in all manner of locations for 'months' before launch. So, I guess at least 2 months.

At this point in time, AT&T probably still requires test devices before launch, but Apple probably has much more ability to control how, where, when and by whom. Doesn't eliminate AT&T's need to test them, but they are no longer in the driver seat for things like this.

One policy change almost certain: no drinking while testing.

I'm going to need some sort of proof of this. I just can't imagine AT&T employees are sitting on dozens of next generation iPhones that are being used all over the country before Apple has officially announced them.
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post #384 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm going to need some sort of proof of this. I just can't imagine AT&T employees are sitting on dozens of next generation iPhones that are being used all over the country before Apple has officially announced them.

USAToday article from the launch of the original. I suppose it isn't really proof, but likely as close as we are going to get without video and sworn statements.

From the article, AT&T had 200 field testers using them for 10 weeks (admittedly, it was before launch but well after the announcement)

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post #385 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

USAToday article from the launch of the original. I suppose it isn't really proof, but likely as close as we are going to get without video and sworn statements.

From the article, AT&T had 200 field testers using them for 10 weeks (admittedly, it was before launch but well after the announcement)

Apple's first phone and that would have been 3.5 months after the announcement, assuming the field testers used it right up until the launch date. If AT&T gets them before an official announcement I doubt it would be free floating. Just look at how the iPad was locked down with a few select publishers even after the announcement.

I just listened to an audio conversation between Andy Ihnatko, Dan Benjamin and MacGruber about the incident. One of them stated that they believe that Apple's policy is to take it out for a few hours to do specific tests, not to just use as your regular phone for days or weeks on end. They also stated that they thing the engineer isn't in much trouble, that it was an "honest" mistake, but this could be Apple holding off any decisions (like suing Gizmodo) until after they make an announcement because to fire the mention the device at this point would just validate the stories. Best to ignore it publicly while working to make sure this doesn't happen again.
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post #386 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple's first phone and that would have been 3.5 months after the announcement, assuming the field testers used it right up until the launch date. If AT&T gets them before an official announcement I doubt it would be free floating. Just look at how the iPad was locked down with a few select publishers even after the announcement.

The original iPhone was announced months before launch (6 or 7?). Since then, they haven't given as large a lead between announcement and launch of the new hardware.

The iPad is a different beast. Yes, the 3G version would have to be certified by the carriers, but then with those models being delayed they do have some extra weeks. Maybe that even explains part of the delay with the 3G version...they withheld units from AT&T for longer, so as to better keep it a secret before the common announcement. Once it was announced, AT&T would then have the weeks the needed to test the 3G version.

With most Apple products, Apple and Apple alone decides who gets what and when (other than the FCC, I guess). With the carrier supported devices, they cannot make these decisions alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I just listened to an audio conversation between Andy Ihnatko, Dan Benjamin and MacGruber about the incident. One of them stated that they believe that Apple's policy is to take it out for a few hours to do specific tests, not to just use as your regular phone for days or weeks on end. They also stated that they thing the engineer isn't in much trouble, that it was an "honest" mistake, but this could be Apple holding off any decisions (like suing Gizmodo) until after they make an announcement because to fire the mention the device at this point would just validate the stories. Best to ignore it publicly while working to make sure this doesn't happen again.

So, he broke protocol, lost a prototype as a result and it is a honest mistake? I think their assumptions about why Apple is being so quite and 'nice' about it are fair.

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post #387 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

I'm not arguing with the suggestion that break on top might be for an IR transceiver. I hope it is - it would certainly be a useful hardware addition.

Likewise I'm not suggesting that the existence of 2 breaks in any way means that the unit will be user "openable". In fact I think that's highly unlikely.

My theory is that the breaks in the casing are filled with rubber and serve as shock-absorbers in case of the phone being dropped.

This case has zero plastic. Just rigid metal and rigid glass. Dropping it would be painful.
The addition of some compressible material in the shell would absorb the energy of a fall onto a hard surface.

Thats my theory anyhow!

C.
post #388 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

My theory is that the breaks in the casing are filled with rubber and serve as shock-absorbers in case of the phone being dropped.

This case has zero plastic. Just rigid metal and rigid glass. Dropping it would be painful.
The addition of some compressible material in the shell would absorb the energy of a fall onto a hard surface.

Thats my theory anyhow!

C.

I agree... those slits are positioned perfectly for shock absorption. By having 3 slits, every corner of the phone is protected from that. If the aluminum frame was solid it would have the effect of compressing when dropped, which would push on the glass. There also appears to be a rubber border going around the edges of the glass.

Another reason is thermal expansion. I'll bet that thing can heat up. Aluminum expands 2x as much as steel at any given temperature.

With hardware packed that tight, thermal expansion could be an issue.
post #389 of 395
OK, in another post I said I hated this design but now that I'm seeing it in this post side-by-side with the 3GS and from different angles, it's growing on me.

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iPod, iPad, iPad2, iPad 3, iPad Mini, iPhone, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, AppleTV (1,2 & 3), 13" MacBook Pro, 24" Cinema Display, Time Capsule, 21.5" iMac (Mid 2011)

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post #390 of 395
I don't care what it looks like, if it doesn't play Blu-Ray, I'm not buying it. All the phones made by PC companies do (eMachines, HP, Dell, Alienware, etc.).
post #391 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin View Post

I don't care what it looks like, if it doesn't play Blu-Ray, I'm not buying it. All the phones made by PC companies do (eMachines, HP, Dell, Alienware, etc.).

+1
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #392 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

It's too bad iFixit, iSuppli or anandtech didn't get in on the teardown. I'd love to know more about this device. Anyway, there's always July....

Some eagle-eyed poster on another forum spotted this...
I made a jpeg of the important bits.

The Gizmodo teardown does reveal an external sticker on the main board.
There's a number on it that is almost identical to the number on the A4 chip in an iPad teardown.

This is the best evidence to date, suggesting that the iPhone has something like the A4 in it.

C.
post #393 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post

I tend to agree. The number of people entrusted with one of these, let alone entrusted to take one off the Apple campus likely numbers in the single digits. Double digits tops.

And it's not like these folks don't understand or appreciate the significance of what they're carrying around. In other words, the chances of it legitimately being forgotten somewhere are next to nil.

I think this is a plant by Apple to soothe the savage beast of the media horde, ws analysts, etc.

Totally agree this is another strange twist in the saga of Apple deliberate leaks, though don't think to "sooth" is their intention! They've sent the tech media into a frenzy and the story has been big in mainstream news too. Something about the new design seems very un-Apple though. Despite it being thinner, the squarish design actually makes it look fatter and less sexy. I wouldn't be surprised if the final case more closely mirrors the previous units. There's simply no way Jobs or Ive would approve of a design with gaps and breaks in the surface like the Gizmodo phone has.

Also gotta hand it to Gizmodo for making the big-time!!! Not bad for an Aussie tech site!
post #394 of 395
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

Totally agree this is another strange twist in the saga of Apple deliberate leaks, though don't think to "sooth" is their intention! They've sent the tech media into a frenzy and the story has been big in mainstream news too. Something about the new design seems very un-Apple though. Despite it being thinner, the squarish design actually makes it look fatter and less sexy. I wouldn't be surprised if the final case more closely mirrors the previous units. There's simply no way Jobs or Ive would approve of a design with gaps and breaks in the surface like the Gizmodo phone has.

Apple planning this seems like a foolish move in every way.

However, while I don't agree with your conclusion I will point out that Steve Job, back in 2007, had postive things to say about Gizmodo: http://valleywag.gawker.com/tech/cro...log-264860.php

Quote:
Also gotta hand it to Gizmodo for making the big-time!!! Not bad for an Aussie tech site!

I think Gizmodo Australia started years after the original site.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #395 of 395
Its quite obvious that APPLE enjoys playing this marketing game with us as much as we enjoy reading this stuff. GO APPLE, IT's a marketing game that gets more attention than anything else
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