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Apple asks for iPhone prototype back, Gizmodo could face UTSA lawsuit - Page 3

post #81 of 363
4/20/10 at 4:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormj View Post


Honestly, though, given all of the blowback against Apple going on lately, I wonder if they don't decide from a PR perspective to go soft here, still the precedent... oy....

And what "blowback" is going on against Apple exactly? The same "blowback" that trolls and tech wannabes are constantly spewing? The whining of the spectards? The threats of self-important developers?
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post #82 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormj View Post


Honestly, though, given all of the blowback against Apple going on lately, I wonder if they don't decide from a PR perspective to go soft here, still the precedent... oy....

What blowback?
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post #83 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:10am
Gizmodo was always 3rd-rate journalism at best.
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post #84 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

California Penal Code Section 485
One who finds lost property under circumstances which give him knowledge of or means of inquiry as to the true owner, and who appropriates such property to his own use, or to the use of another person not entitled thereto, without first making reasonable and just efforts to find the owner and to restore the property to him, is guilty of theft.

IANAL, but I believe over $400 is a felony and as such this would qualify, same goes with receiving stolen goods.

So, if the person that found the phone called Apple to try to find out where to return it, received a call ticket for his inquiry and never heard back, it sounds like he make a reasonable attempt. Going public with it was probably the best way to get someone from Apple to call him back.

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post #85 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:24am
You know Apple really believes this is a stolen phone, can you imagine what the employee (whose name we do not speak) said to his boss:

"I was minding my own business, eating Wiener Schnitzel and a Coke. I had just finished updating my Facebook, laid my iphone next to my plate when these two dudes just sat down at my table. They started talking about how how they love German food. We talked for about 10 minutes and they got up and left. When I got up to pay my bill I realized my iPhone test unit had been stolen. ... No I wasn't drinking, are you serious?"
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post #86 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soskok View Post

So if i simply try to call someone to restore lost property but get no answer that makes an effort? where is an effort in making a call????????

P.S. people start forgetting times when no mobile phones were around...no so long ago...

Well, trying to make a call and making that call are very different, unless you are challenged to the point of being unable to actually make the call.

he made the call. he made multiple calls. Apple noted his calls and never replied.

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post #87 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by OC4Theo View Post

Nobody left the phone on the bar stool. Nobody found a lost/forgotten phone. This phone was clearly stolen.
If you find something that doesn't belong to you, it is your duty to return it to the rightful owner.

If Gizmodo claims the phone was lost, whoever found and sold it to these idiots, knew who the phone belong to. At least he/she knew who to contact to sell it, therefore he/she has good knowledge of what it is or who it belong to. Therefore it is a crime to sell what does not belong to you, without contacting the rightful owner. If the THIEF can locate Gizmodo, he/she can locate Apple. There is no innocence here. This is a willful and malicious act.

Apple should sue them for at least $100 million, technically shutting them down. I can't believe these idiots are so stupid to do this kind of thing.

Well, then it is a good thing he and Apple have records of him attempting to return it. Pretty sure he doesn't have Steve Jobs personal phone number, so calling Apple and asking to return it is probably the next best 'reasonable' attempt.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #88 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

The law is very simple.

1. The person who found the device is not the owner of the device. He should have handed the device into the bar or to the police. Instead he decided to sell the device, which was not his. This is theft. Selling something that you do not own, knowing it belongs to someone else.

2. Gizmodo knew these facts. So they knew the devices (be it real of fake), did not belong to the person selling it. Therefore they purchased stolen goods. Even if they did not know the fact, they knew that the person selling the device was not the owner of the device.

3. Having purchased the device they then made no attempt to return the device to its owner. Instead they decided to pull it appear to see if it was a real Apple device, when they discovered it was, they should then have contacted Apple, but no they decide to use the stolen device to drive up their site traffic. In the process revealing trade secrets.

Quite a dishonest and unprofessional way to act if you ask me.
Greed seems to have overruled common decency.

The person who found the device should be prosecuted for selling stolen property (after all he did not hand it in to the police).

Gizmodo should also be prosecuted for receiving stolen property and for trade secret issues.

You forget step 1a...he called Apple to inform them and find out tho whom he could return it. If the rightful owner denies ownership or refuses to let him know where to send it, he has made his reasonable attempt to return it.

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post #89 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:29am
The guy (Brian Lam) addressed in the letter has the best email ever...BLAM!!!! @gizmodo.com. I dunno..the whole thing feels a little staged.
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post #90 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:29am
Seems the sane thing for Giz to do is to just give it back as requested. They got their story, they made news, etc. It's done.

Why *wouldn't* Gizmodo return the phone?
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post #91 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

One call does not count as making effort to return the device.
For all you know they could have hung up the call before the person had chance to answer!
If they had proof of a number of calls, plus a police incident number showing they had reported the find to the police . Perhaps even a call to Apple as this person clearly knew what he was dealing with here, else why sell to Gizmodo for £5k. How long did he try before he sold the device.

A court would want more 'effort' than one failed phone call.

It wasn't a failed call. He got through to Apple and informed them of the situation. Apple issued him a call ticket and never got back to him. if you inform the rightful owner, do yuo still have to inform the police?

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post #92 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:33am
[QUOTE=fishstick_kitty;1615959]The guy (Brian Lam) addressed in the letter has the best email ever...BLAM!!!! @gizmodo.com



http://marathon.bungie.org/story/blam.html

The old Marathon manuals have the word Blam! in the end credits as well. There's quite a history to that word, starting with the Marathon series and going all the way into Halo. It used to be very cloak-and-dagger stuff around Bungie.
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post #93 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Seems the sane thing for Giz to do is to just give it back as requested. They got their story, they made news, etc. It's done.

Why *wouldn't* Gizmodo return the phone?

They say they are going to now that Apple has formally informed them it is theirs and requested its return.

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post #94 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

It wasn't a failed call. He got through to Apple and informed them of the situation. Apple issued him a call ticket and never got back to him. if you inform the rightful owner, do yuo still have to inform the police?

No. I find it hard to believe this guy went through those steps though. I hope he has proof of his "good deed."
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post #95 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:37am
I'm not fussy on this design.

The sharp edges are going to wear holes in my pocket a lot faster than the smooth edges and sculpted back that we have now. I can't see this being as comfortable to hold or carry around either. If this is the real deal, I guess I'll have to buy a case with smoother edges.

I'm hoping that it is a rejected prototype.

B
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post #96 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rychencop View Post

No. I find it hard to believe this guy went through those steps though. I hope he has proof of his "good deed."

if he doesn't he is screwed. If he told Giz that he contacted Apple and was ignored and left it to them to get it back to Apple (which it seems that have been successful at) then he is still screwed (if he never made the calls) but Giz is probably off the hook.

I love how so many people are saying Giz is guilty of something. But no charge they have have described fits in any real way. Hell, the first question to answer is how they hell would they have known it was an Apple device? Thousands of people on the internet looking at the pics and description and many people were sure it was a chinese knockoff, a fake, whatever, but not an Apple device. Then there is the attempts by the person that found it to contact Apple. Then there is Giz in record publishing that if Apple claims it, then will return it immediately. Giz was obviously playing it close to the line, as they mentioned they checked with their legal team before going forward with this, but I haven't seen one reasonable description of a charge of theft or receiving stolen good that fits the situation...but I guess the lawyers will sort that out.

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post #97 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

if he doesn't he is screwed. If he told Giz that he contacted Apple and was ignored and left it to them to get it back to Apple (which it seems that have been successful at) then he is still screwed (if he never made the calls) but Giz is probably off the hook.

I love how so many people are saying Giz is guilty of something. But no charge they have have described fits in any real way. Hell, the first question to answer is how they hell would they have known it was an Apple device? Thousands of people on the internet looking at the pics and description and many people were sure it was a chinese knockoff, a fake, whatever, but not an Apple device. Then there is the attempts by the person that found it to contact Apple. Then there is Giz in record publishing that if Apple claims it, then will return it immediately. Giz was obviously playing it close to the line, as they mentioned they checked with their legal team before going forward with this, but I haven't seen one reasonable description of a charge of theft or receiving stolen good that fits the situation...but I guess the lawyers will sort that out.

yea...this is on the shoulders of the guy who "found" it more than Giz for revealing it. now Giz could find itself in a civil suit since they knew what it was and this guy was in no way affiliated with Apple. it seems Apple simply wants it back and they are embarrassed that an idiot lost it in a bar.
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post #98 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

You forget step 1a...he called Apple to inform them and find out tho whom he could return it. If the rightful owner denies ownership or refuses to let him know where to send it, he has made his reasonable attempt to return it.

Firstly, how many people lose their iPhone's, iPod,s etc.?

Does a person who has found such a lost item ever call the manufacturer who made the product?

If the finder did call Apple did he make clear that the iPhone he had in his possession was not a production unit. i.e., it had none of the features of the iPhone's retailed version?

What prompted the finder to contact Gizmodo rather than hand it straight in to the police?

If Gizmodo believed this to be genuine prototype, then why did they not tell the finder or return the item to Apple themselves, or report the matter to the police? Gizmodo cannot plead ignorance as they would have known it was clearly not a retail item.

The finder may not have known how to contact higher officials at Apple, but Gizmodo certainly would.
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post #99 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:51am
I'm not sure about the law in California, but where I am you don't have to break down a door and knock someone over the head to steal something. Picking up something and keeping it, when you know it is not yours, is enough. Selling it, or buying it, just adds to the charges. Again, I'm no legal expert, but I have been involved in a case like this when someone "found" something of mine and sold it to a pawn shop. The law was clear, turn it in to the police or back to the rightful owner immediately, or its stolen.

I wish Gizmodo luck on this one, should Apple decide to go after them. Taking the thing apart and posting pics probably was not the smartest move on their part. It'll be interesting to see where other companies line up on this one - if anyone else says anything publicly or if they just sit on the sidelines. No doubt there are some companies that would like an example to be made.

And I doubt Apple will get much backlash. There will be some rants no doubt, but they'll mostly be confined to boards like this and fringe publications. I doubt CNN or Fox News would take Apple to task for this, so few people will ever hear about it.
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post #100 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Well, then it is a good thing he and Apple have records of him attempting to return it. Pretty sure he doesn't have Steve Jobs personal phone number, so calling Apple and asking to return it is probably the next best 'reasonable' attempt.

One thing though. Why didn't he leave the phone at the bar for someone to reclaim? Did Apple engineer even attempt to reclaim it?

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post #101 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvmb99 View Post

I doubt CNN or Fox News would take Apple to task for this, so few people will ever hear about it.

You were saying?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/te...0/10083480.stm

It's all over the UK news.
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post #102 of 363
4/20/10 at 5:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodshotrollin'red View Post

Firstly, how many people lose their iPhone's, iPod,s etc.?

Does a person who has found such a lost item ever call the manufacturer who made the product?

If the finder did call Apple did he make clear that the iPhone he had in his possession was not a production unit. i.e., it had none of the features of the iPhone's retailed version?

What prompted the finder to contact Gizmodo rather than hand it straight in to the police?

If Gizmodo believed this to be genuine prototype, then why did they not tell the finder or return the item to Apple themselves, or report the matter to the police? Gizmodo cannot plead ignorance as they would have known it was clearly not a retail item.

The finder may not have known how to contact higher officials at Apple, but Gizmodo certainly would.

From the Giz story, the person realized it was not a production unit and so called Apple directly and informed of this fact. Maybe he though Apple would pay him a reward.

Why did he contact Giz? Maybe he felt that with their contacts in the tech industry, they would be better able to get resolution through Apple.

When Giz had it, as is obvious, they could not confirm it was an Apple owned device. They could assume it was, but as has been stated, thousands of people on the internet thought it was a fake (and therefore not Apple's property). Once Giz opened it up and confirmed to their satisfaction that it was an Apple device, who is to say they didn't contact Apple and published their findings at the same time? Hell, their story itself should have been enough to inform Apple. In some jurisdictions, on finding lost property, my understanding is that you can publish a note in a newspaper or other publication with the details and that is considered notification.

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post #103 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

One thing though. Why didn't he leave the phone at the bar for someone to reclaim? Did Apple engineer even attempt to reclaim it?

Maybe he was drunk? That is what he should have done, but is that a legal requirement? I remember when I worked at a department store in highschool, we had a lost and found at the receptionists desks. The girls that worked the desk at night used to go through the box and just take what they liked. Giving it to a employee at the bar might absolve him, but it wouldn't necessarily be the wise move, in terms of getting it back to Apple.

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post #104 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvmb99 View Post

I'm not sure about the law in California, but where I am you don't have to break down a door and knock someone over the head to steal something. Picking up something and keeping it, when you know it is not yours, is enough. Selling it, or buying it, just adds to the charges. Again, I'm no legal expert, but I have been involved in a case like this when someone "found" something of mine and sold it to a pawn shop. The law was clear, turn it in to the police or back to the rightful owner immediately, or its stolen.

I wish Gizmodo luck on this one, should Apple decide to go after them. Taking the thing apart and posting pics probably was not the smartest move on their part. It'll be interesting to see where other companies line up on this one - if anyone else says anything publicly or if they just sit on the sidelines. No doubt there are some companies that would like an example to be made.

And I doubt Apple will get much backlash. There will be some rants no doubt, but they'll mostly be confined to boards like this and fringe publications. I doubt CNN or Fox News would take Apple to task for this, so few people will ever hear about it.

Did the person that found your stuff call you and did you ignore them before he sold it?

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post #105 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rychencop View Post

yea...this is on the shoulders of the guy who "found" it more than Giz for revealing it. now Giz could find itself in a civil suit since they knew what it was and this guy was in no way affiliated with Apple. it seems Apple simply wants it back and they are embarrassed that an idiot lost it in a bar.

Giz didn't know what it was until the opened it up. It was just as likely a chinese knockoff as an Apple device. Once they opened it, we don't know what steps that did or did not take to inform Apple. We know they took their findings and published them and stated they would return it to Apple upon request. They now have that request.

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post #106 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Maybe he was drunk? That is what he should have done, but is that a legal requirement? I remember when I worked at a department store in highschool, we had a lost and found at the receptionists desks. The girls that worked the desk at night used to go through the box and just take what they liked. Giving it to a employee at the bar might absolve him, but it wouldn't necessarily be the wise move, in terms of getting it back to Apple.

Every time I lost something at some place I got it back by going to that place so I think it's the best move. His motive is suspicious. Also I'd like to know does he work at the bar, and that poor Apple engineer even tried to go back to reclaim it the next day?

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post #107 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodshotrollin'red View Post

You were saying?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/hi/te...0/10083480.stm

It's all over the UK news.



This does not seem to be taking Apple to task. I didn't say that the story wouldn't make the news, just that the major news sites would likely not blast Apple for going after these guys.
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post #108 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:14am
I'm sure Gizmodo will give it back. They basically molested the phone on live TV, what use is it now?
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post #109 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

From the Giz story...

Well, I haven't been to the Gizmodo site to read the full story. I wouldn't want their trash in my cache.

How far is Infinity Loop/Apple campus from this bar? He couldn't pay them a visit and drop it off at the reception?

And if he was too indifferent to take it to Apple he could always have dropped it in at his nearest police station or Apple store.

Stop making up excuses for these people.
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post #110 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:17am
Can someone clarify some things for me.

1. It was found at a bar in US?
2. Why was it found by a Japanese Tech Reporter?
4. Is it possible that the device was "left" there on purpose by someone who knew a Japanese reporter would be on hand?
5. Is it possible that the person who left it was not an engineer, but someone who the engineer knew who was paid by the japanese reporter to "borrow without asking" for say $3,000?
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post #111 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Every time I lost something at some place I got it back by going to that place so I think it's the best move. His motive is suspicious. Also I'd like to know does he work at the bar, and that poor Apple engineer even tried to go back to reclaim it the next day?

You are lucky. I have lost stuff and returned to where I left it and have never had any luck in retrieving the items. Either the items were turned in and the walked or were never turned in and the person never made an attempt to find me, the owner.

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post #112 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Did the person that found your stuff call you and did you ignore them before he sold it?

They said they did, actually. Among other excuses. However, it made no difference, I didn't say that they could keep it, so they were guilty.

What is a reasonable attempt? Unless the finder is specifically told that it was now theirs, my suspicion is that the law will come down on the side of the owner. At least I hope it will, otherwise anyone who wants to steal anything can give me or you or whoever owns the item a phone call, claim no answer or some other such nonsense, and be off. Hey, phone records will show that they tried, right?

Enough letters for Apple's legal council are out there, it would not be hard to find them. I suspect a phone call to the right place would be acted on quickly. Or maybe not, and Apple will soon be looking for new council. Or, maybe the conspiracy is right, and Apple planned this all along..... We'll soon see. Maybe.
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post #113 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:18am
When I developed firmware for cell phones (for several years), I regularly used prototypes for testing. Final "plastic" was always quite different from the prototypes and always a tightly guarded secret (because phones are a fashion accessory, too). Chances are that this iPhone is a good predictor how the actual phone will look but that the final product will not look exactly like it.
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post #114 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Giz didn't know what it was until the opened it up. It was just as likely a chinese knockoff as an Apple device. Once they opened it, we don't know what steps that did or did not take to inform Apple. We know they took their findings and published them and stated they would return it to Apple upon request. They now have that request.

it doesn't matter. it was NOT their property to open up. you can't find something on the streets and assume it's yours until the owner asks for it back. and you damn sure can't open it up.
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post #115 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

There is no "improper means" . It was not "stolen". Some dumbass took it out in public and left it on a bar stool and left the premises. It was not taken from his bag, it was not acquired on Apple's property. It was not even discovered to be a prototype upon finding....

In the first place, this is just Gizmodo's story, it isn't necessarily true. Secondly, the device would be "stolen" the minute the person who found it didn't give it back to Apple when they easily could have, but instead sold it to Brian Lam.
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post #116 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:22am
Oh, COME ON for the love of God --

If YOU (any one of you) found a next-gen Apple prototype sitting on a bar. And no one... no one... no one... came back for it, you would do WHAT, exactly? Keep it? Certainly. Show it off? Probably. Make some money giving the scoop to Gizmodo/AI? Not out of the question.

Way to demonize.

The most interesting post in this thread so far is that one above, regarding whether or not the device was PLANTED on the bar.
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post #117 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Giz didn't know what it was until the opened it up. It was just as likely a chinese knockoff as an Apple device. Once they opened it, we don't know what steps that did or did not take to inform Apple. We know they took their findings and published them and stated they would return it to Apple upon request. They now have that request.

I think this is a real stretch.

Judging by the story Gizmodo itself published, the person who found it on the bar stool realised it was an Apple prototype (or should have based on their description of the device), the night it was found. They also knew the name of he person at Apple it belonged to. According to Gizmodo, this was "weeks" before they got it, and according to everyone else, Gizmodo had it for a week before they opened it up. So we are talking a two to three week period where everyone, including the guy who found it, are sure at least amongst themselves, that they have an Apple prototype in hand.


We're not dealing with geniuses here. It's Gizmodo after all.
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post #118 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:25am
Giving it to the bartender is a stupid idea. The bartender has no more legal right to the device than the finder.

Gizmodo purchased a weird device that might have been a prototype iPhone or might have been some elaborate fake. How could Gizmodo know that it was "real" (whatever "real" means) without Apple contacting them and confirming it?

There is not a snowball's chance in hell that Apple could prove in a court of law that Gizmodo knew it was purchasing a legit Apple prototype, especially knowing that Apple had ignored attempts to return it.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #119 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotScott View Post

The most interesting post in this thread so far is that one above, regarding whether or not the device was PLANTED on the bar.

I'm convinced there was no bar involved - it is just a fictitious story for the release of the photos. This is all a PR stunt by Apple and Gawker.
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post #120 of 363
4/20/10 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bloodshotrollin'red View Post

Well, I haven't been to the Gizmodo site to read the full story. I wouldn't want their trash in my cache.

How far is Infinity Loop/Apple campus from this bar? He couldn't pay them a visit and drop it off at the reception?

And if he was too indifferent to take it to Apple he could always have dropped it in at his nearest police station or Apple store.

Stop making up excuses for these people.

No excuses, he made the calls. You might prefer that he make additional or different efforts, but then that is your opinion. I would have preferred that he took a bus to Infinite Loop and tried to get through the security to Steve office directly, but that probably wouldn't happen.

Why should he waste his day heading over there? That's why we have phones. Great form of communication. If he had gone to the campus and the receptionist ignored him, you would still say that was just an excuse.

What you think he should have done, what you want him to done are different things than what he was required to do. Did he do enough to meet those requirements? I don't know. But it isn't making excuses to state that he did make an reasonable effort. You can always find excuses to say it wasn't enough.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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