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9/11 - Page 3

post #81 of 92
[quote]To those of you who require this "evidence," you're not going to get it. That's kind of the whole idea of choosing to BELIEVE. I will probably never be able to give you an Exhibit A, B, or C that God absolutely exists. Honestly, there is none.<hr></blockquote>

I was raised Christian by my family, but it made less and less sense to me as I went thru my teens, and by the time I started in college I abandoned it...the whole big business/corporate/manipulative and controlling nature of "big religion" seemed so far removed from the teaching of Jesus Christ himself.

Also I now find it really tough to base my life and outlook on myth, legend, old wrtings and suppositions; it seems so much of a flimsy tighrope to walk upon. So I am skeptical about "deity"...I think I would gladly accept it if I had solid *proof* which was enough to pass my personal tests, but mere *belief* will never cut it for me. I kow many people who have had what they describe as *proof*. Maybe they are the lucky ones!
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #82 of 92
[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>

The brother who went into the WTC Tower 1 lobby was not a professional. When he first entered the lobby he heard then saw victims burning from the jet fuel right next to him. He decided not to film their suffering...in some ways the worst decision a professional could do. But he felt for them and didn't record their suffering.

Most professionals damn the torpedos and just shoot...with him that came later. It became so overwhelming he had no choice. Uh, I don't know where I am going with this but Scott H...it is a job...that's what they get paid to do. To record events as they happen. When they happen. Impartially.

"Someone had to be the messenger and I guess we were chosen for this..." the other brother said in the beginning of the documentary.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Pfft, his job can be carried out whichever way he wants. He's not your image of a documentary maker, but he is his own. His decision added to the documentary.

If everything was so simple, he shouldn't have been in the area at all. He was a burden to the firefighters. He didn't help any of the victims. He was just an extra body with a camera at the scene that Captain Pfeiffer had to fall on top of to protect. Imagine if Pfeiffer had died to save his life. I wonder if he would have added that to the documentary.

No, he's lucky he didn't have to come to such a decision.

If you say he has a job to do as a camera man, I can say he has a job to do as a decent human being...to put down his camera and help, or get out of the way.

Of course I don't really believe that, since his actions ended up creating something more powerful.
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post #83 of 92
[quote]His decision added to the documentary.<hr></blockquote>

Has anyone heard if CBS will be showing this documentary again in the near future?...I missed it on the 10th
Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a...
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post #84 of 92
[quote]Can't we just for now, until science comes to our rescue, drop our arrogance and admit that we just have no clue?<hr></blockquote>

I wasn't aware that I was speaking of anything but theory and thoughts. (As a matter of fact, I think I explicitly stated that I was stating neither belief nor non-belief. And yes, everything is recycled, it's been a long time since someone has had an original theory on religion.)

In my previous posts on god I was dealing with the idea of god in the predominant way Christian Americans deal with him. If you have any problem with the things I said, why not address them directly instead of chastising me for the exact same thing you went on to do?
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #85 of 92
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>

I wasn't aware that I was speaking of anything but theory and thoughts. (As a matter of fact, I think I explicitly stated that I was stating neither belief nor non-belief. And yes, everything is recycled, it's been a long time since someone has had an original theory on religion.)

In my previous posts on god I was dealing with the idea of god in the predominant way Christian Americans deal with him. If you have any problem with the things I said, why not address them directly instead of chastising me for the exact same thing you went on to do?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I was wondering where you were. Whew... i've had enough... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Ayn Rand... smarter than live people.
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Ayn Rand... smarter than live people.
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post #86 of 92
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>I actually don't begrudge these guys making money off the video. They put there ass on the line and got some footage the whole world should see.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Did any of you actually watch the show? Were you getting a sandwich durting the 10 or so times where they said that they had no idea that they were filming in many of the situations. In fact one said he was only pointing his light so that others could see and his camera just happened to be on and caught the amazing footage. Catching it all on tape was the last thing on their mind. Living was first. And finding the other brother.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #87 of 92
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>
If you say he has a job to do as a camera man, I can say he has a job to do as a decent human being...to put down his camera and help, or get out of the way.

Of course I don't really believe that, since his actions ended up creating something more powerful.</strong><hr></blockquote>

But, as a broadcaster, I can say that I don't have any desire to ever place myself in a situation that might put me in danger like that, or ask me to do my "job" instead of help people.

I've heard horror stories of these news photogs that go over to the middle east and have to hit the deck when bombs are going off around them -- and they keep taping.

I don't think so.

I would understand, when doing a documentary on a firefighting team, that something VERY bad could happen (especially after 9/11). I might do it, but at the same time I was doing my job (rolling tape on what I'm seeing), my other hand would be pulling people out of the area, doing whatever else I could do.

It's really a fine line. One which I really hope to never have to negotiate.
Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
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Living life in glorious 4G HD (with a 2GB data cap).
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post #88 of 92
&gt;There are no alcoholic atheists? No atheists who use drugs? Or committ crime? You can't really believe this so why the bullshit? What are you hiding? &lt;

sure, but they don't become all pious and preachy after they are 'healed'. They just shut the **** up and get on with their lives.......................
post #89 of 92
CosmoNut, if a person is truly able to help in this situation, then yes...he should help.

But let's take a specific example and go from there. Remember that doctor who went down to ground zero with his camcorder? ... the "I hope I live...I hope I live" and "can I get a toot off your respirator" guy?

Sure he was a doctor, but he was probably more of a menace to the rescue workers than an aid. In the end, his footage was probably more significant than anything else he offered that day.
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I can change my sig again!
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post #90 of 92
[quote]Originally posted by steve666:
<strong>&gt;There are no alcoholic atheists? No atheists who use drugs? Or committ crime? You can't really believe this so why the bullshit? What are you hiding? &lt;

sure, but they don't become all pious and preachy after they are 'healed'. They just shut the **** up and get on with their lives.......................</strong><hr></blockquote>

More bs. It is commonplace for ex-criminals, ex-drinkers, ex-drug users, hell, even ex-smokers to speak out against the things they used to do. You don't have to be a Christian to do this.
shooby doo, shooby doo
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shooby doo, shooby doo
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post #91 of 92
&gt;More bs. It is commonplace for ex-criminals, ex-drinkers, ex-drug users, hell, even ex-smokers to speak out against the things they used to do. You don't have to be a Christian to do this.&lt;

But they don't go on and on blathering about how they've been saved and that I was 'born again", as though they are all of a sudden saints. Give me a break. Better yet, give anyone who has to listen to that carp a break. I hate phony people..............
post #92 of 92
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>CosmoNut, if a person is truly able to help in this situation, then yes...he should help.

But let's take a specific example and go from there. Remember that doctor who went down to ground zero with his camcorder? ... the "I hope I live...I hope I live" and "can I get a toot off your respirator" guy?

Sure he was a doctor, but he was probably more of a menace to the rescue workers than an aid. In the end, his footage was probably more significant than anything else he offered that day.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Huh? Eugene, I read your other post too, and this one here just goes way out on a limb here...By the way, that "menacing" doctor spent weeks helping victims and also worked in the rescue and recovery in Ground Zero. Same as the filmers of 9|11.

If you were there...would you have done what you believe? I really think that you would be like me...and dropped the ****ing camera and head for the hills. No, that's not a cowardly act...that is self preservation. But these people (firemen, doctors, police and yeah, even documentarists - sp - ) will stick around to help and record these events. To me it would be too overwhelming to witness or participate in. Yes, I would run away! But I wasn't there...I don't know. The only rational thing I could do that day was give blood at my local hospital.

But thank humanity (not God) that some of us will be there to save us...not some fairy tale, old bearded cliche...the events that happened that day gave me clear evidence that the only good and evil personified on this Earth are us and us alone. Once the rest of the world wakes up to that fact then maybe some peace and understanding will occur. **** all religions.
I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
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I AM THE Royal Pain in the Ass.
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