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Adobe abandons development of Flash-to-iPhone porting software

post #1 of 166
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A change in Apple's developer agreement has caused Adobe to halt development of technology that allows Flash applications to be ported natively to the iPhone and iPad, though it will still be included in the forthcoming Creative Suite 5.

Writing on his blog, Mike Chambers, project manager for Adobe Flash, revealed this week that his company is not planning additional investments in the software feature. Chambers noted that Adobe complied with Apple's licensing terms during the development cycle of Flash CS5.

"However, as developers for the iPhone have learned, if you want to develop for the iPhone you have to be prepared for Apple to reject or restrict your development at anytime, and for seemingly any reason," he wrote.

Chambers suggested that Apple's changes to the developer agreement were meant to specifically target Adobe and developers who might port software from Flash to the iPhone.

"It is our belief that Apple will enforce those terms as they apply to content created with Flash CS5," he wrote. "Developers should be prepared for Apple to remove existing content and applications (100+ on the store today) created with Flash CS5 from the iTunes store."

He also said that he does not believe the development of the iPhone packager included in CS5 was a waste of time for Adobe, as it proved that there isn't a technical reason Flash cannot run on the iPhone. He also argued that it proved developers can create content that performs well and is interesting for the iPhone through Flash.

The knowledge and experience gamed from the iPhone compiler, Chambers said, aided in the development of Flash Player 10.1 and Adobe AIR 2.0 for other mobile operating systems. He specifically named Google's Android platform -- along with the Motorola Droid, Nexus One, and forthcoming Android-based tablets -- as an alternative. "Fortunately, the iPhone isn't the only game in town," he said.

Weeks ago, when Apple introduced the forthcoming iPhone OS 4, the company also added a clause to the developer license agreement that specifically prohibits the development of applications using "an intermediary translation or compatibility or layer tool." That addition means software originally written for Adobe's Flash, Sun's Java, or Microsoft's Silverlight/Mono and ported to Apple's iPhone OS would be against the terms of its developer agreement. The iPhone OS powers the iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.

The changes inspired a considerable amount of debate, with one Adobe supporter suggesting Apple timed the announcement to hurt sales of CS5.

Apple co-founder Steve Jobs himself got into the discussion earlier this month, when he allegedly responded an e-mail from a developer who was upset over the changes to the developer agreement. Jobs argued that "intermediate layers between the platform and the developer ultimately produces sub-standard apps and hinders the progress of the platform."

Even before the change was revealed, Apple has been under fire for its iPhone developer agreement for some time. In March, the Electronic Frontier Foundation posted the agreement in its entirety, and criticized the Cupertino, Calif., company for terms that it feels stifle innovation. It accused the iPhone maker of partaking in actions akin to a "jealous and arbitrary feudal lord."
post #2 of 166
Well this wasn't unexpected.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Even before the change was revealed, Apple has been under fire for its iPhone developer agreement for some time. In March, the Electronic Frontier Foundation posted the agreement in its entirety, and criticized the Cupertino, Calif., company for terms that it feels stifle innovation. It accused the iPhone maker of partaking in actions akin to a "jealous and arbitrary feudal lord."

It's all baloney at this point. Apple's numbers tell the tale.
post #3 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Jobs argued that "intermediate layers between the platform and the developer ultimately produces sub-standard apps and hinders the progress of the platform."

People familiar with Apple's history will give much value to this statement.
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post #4 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Well this wasn't unexpected.

It's all baloney at this point. Apple's numbers tell the tale.

The EFF sometimes has some good points on issues, but, unfortunately, their zeal sometimes interferes with their reason, and they have trouble recognizing which are real issues and which are not.

I guess Adobe realized that they weren't going to have any success with a lawsuit, though.
post #5 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A change in Apple's developer agreement has caused Adobe to halt development of technology will allow Flash applications to be ported natively to the iPhone and iPad, though it will still be included in the forthcoming Creative Suite 5.

Writing on his blog, Mike Chambers, project manager for Adobe Flash, revealed this week that his company is not planning additional investments in the software feature. Chambers noted that Adobe complied with Apple's licensing terms during the development cycle of Flash CS5.

"However, as developers for the iPhone have learned, if you want to develop for the iPhone you have to be prepared for Apple to reject or restrict your development at anytime, and for seemingly any reason," he wrote.

Chambers suggested that Apple's changes to the developer agreement were meant to specifically target Adobe and developers who might port software from Flash to the iPhone.

"It is our belief that Apple will enforce those terms as they apply to content created with Flash CS5," he wrote. "Developers should be prepared for Apple to remove existing content and applications (100+ on the store today) created with Flash CS5 from the iTunes store."

He also said that he does not believe the development of the iPhone packager included in CS5 was a waste of time for Adobe, as it proved that there isn't a technical reason Flash cannot run on the iPhone. He also argued that it proved developers can create content that performs well and is interesting for the iPhone through Flash.

The knowledge and experience gamed from the iPhone compiler, Chambers said, aided in the development of Flash Player 10.1 and Adobe AIR 2.0 for other mobile operating systems. He specifically named Google's Android platform -- along with the Motorola Droid, Nexus One, and forthcoming Android-based tablets -- as an alternative. "Fortunately, the iPhone isn't the only game in town," he said.

Weeks ago, when Apple introduced the forthcoming iPhone OS 4, the company also added a clause to the developer license agreement that specifically prohibits the development of applications using "an intermediary translation or compatibility or layer tool." That addition means software originally written for Adobe's Flash, Sun's Java, or Microsoft's Silverlight/Mono and ported to Apple's iPhone OS would be against the terms of its developer agreement. The iPhone OS powers the iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad.

The changes inspired a considerable amount of debate, with one Adobe supporter suggesting Apple timed the announcement to hurt sales of CS5.

Apple co-founder Steve Jobs himself got into the discussion earlier this month, when he allegedly responded an e-mail from a developer who was upset over the changes to the developer agreement. Jobs argued that "intermediate layers between the platform and the developer ultimately produces sub-standard apps and hinders the progress of the platform."

Even before the change was revealed, Apple has been under fire for its iPhone developer agreement for some time. In March, the Electronic Frontier Foundation posted the agreement in its entirety, and criticized the Cupertino, Calif., company for terms that it feels stifle innovation. It accused the iPhone maker of partaking in actions akin to a "jealous and arbitrary feudal lord."

With all the problems Graphic Designers had with the Snow Leopard vs Adobe products when we all upgraded was an eye opener for me. Total crashes of Adobe products and this was after they (Adobe) said that their products weere compatible. HOGWASH.

Now my Illustrator version (CS3) will not work with SL and Adobe will not upgrade their product.

I am moving on no more dollars for Adobe products/upgrades.

Flash is dead!
post #6 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by gt1948 View Post

With all the problems Graphic Designers had with the Snow Leopard vs Adobe products when we all upgraded was an eye opener for me. Total crashes of Adobe products and this was after they (Adobe) said that their products weere compatible. HOGWASH.

Now my Illustrator version (CS3) will not work with SL and Adobe will not upgrade their product.

I am moving on… no more dollars for Adobe products/upgrades.

Flash is dead!

This has been one of the big arguments against Adobe all along. No regard for Mac users.

So just dump them. Apple and the rest of us are moving on. The more Adobe and old shiftless-Shantanu drag their feet with Mac products, the more incentive there is for other more enterprising developers to come up with alternatives (and the more incentive for Apple to move some of its $40 billion to help them.)
post #7 of 166
In HTML5 we trust! So in Adobe's opinion Flash isn't so essential...............

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Giovanni B. Saccone
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post #8 of 166
All this looks fishy and foolish, why not talk with Apple?
They are not fool to believe that Apple would have embarked on their game, to me this was planned to pitch Flash developers/publishers against Apple (Blackmail pure and simple), forcing Apple to bow.

I think this was the plan B, thought in advance.
post #9 of 166
Adobe should have focused more on Apple's Mac instead of foolishly waiting for the platform to die and then, when it didn't drop dead as they hoped, treating Mac users as second-class citizens while pimping inferior Windows PCs.


Android and the rest of the me-too also-rans are perfect for Adobe.
post #10 of 166
In my personal experience - Flash Player content on the web has been responsible for probably half the times I have a browser crash - or runaway CPU usage.

If Adobe spent the time and effort to make it behave well instead of whining about how pervasive it happens to be then maybe they would have a case to make.
post #11 of 166
Well, considering Adobe has options out there via HTML5, its their own business if they want to use their products on the soon to be inferior competitors to the iPad
post #12 of 166
I, for one, enjoying reading the comments afterwards where everyone is drooling over his post.
post #13 of 166
If Adobe management would show some business acumen, rather than pouting and throwing a hissy-fit...

They would realize that this is a tremendous opportunity for them:

-- currently 85 million (est. 100 million by year end) Apple Mobile Devices that will never run full Flash.
-- currently 0 (est. ? by year end) other Mobile Devices that may or may not run Full Flash
-- many Flash apps won't run properly in a Touch environment (no mouseover)
-- general dissatisfaction among end users with Flash on any computer (resource hog, unstable, security risk, intrusive ads, non-blockable, etc.).


There's one helluvan' opportunity here to provide a better solution and sell the tools and services to implement it.

Who better than Adobe?


Adobe seems to be stuck on "Flash is the answer!"

They should focus on what is the question?

.
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

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post #14 of 166
I think the most telling thing is Adobe trying to stall / block development of HTML5, they really need to change the way the 'board' works and the input they have as far as the standards / project go.
post #15 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Well this wasn't unexpected.




It's all baloney at this point. Apple's numbers tell the tale.

McDonalds is doing pretty good too. Delicious food good for everyone I guess, right?
post #16 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

McDonalds is doing pretty good too. Delicious food good for everyone I guess, right?

Once you actually *qualify* the numbers (which some of us have done a long time ago) you'll see how absurd your statement is.
post #17 of 166
Finally Adobe gets it. Apple does not want Flash on its iPhone platform. Period. Why all the attempts to get around Apple's declaration? Did they just think Apple was kidding? Jobs has too much of a mean streak to ever back down on a pledge.
post #18 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

McDonalds is doing pretty good too. Delicious food good for everyone I guess, right?

Say what you like, I enjoy an occasional McDonalds hamburger!
post #19 of 166
Ah, now this is the Adobe that we all know and love. NOT!
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post #20 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Finally Adobe gets it. Apple does not want Flash on its iPhone platform. Period. Why all the attempts to get around Apple's declaration? Did they just think Apple was kidding? Jobs has too much of a mean streak to ever back down on a pledge.

I don't think they "get it" at all. I think Adobe is well on its way to becoming a cautionary tale, studied in business school.
post #21 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

McDonalds is doing pretty good too. Delicious food good for everyone I guess, right?

Great analogy. On account of how Apple is also in the lowest common denominator junk business, sold for a few dollars a pop from 30,000 stores, to people with metabolic cravings.
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post #22 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

McDonalds is doing pretty good too. Delicious food good for everyone I guess, right?

Nope it isn't but there are lots of alternatives to McDonalds. Or because its very popular should they be forced to have a vegan menu, kosher menu, low carb menu or other items not of their choice on the Menu?

That's exactly the issue with Apple, they sold you a device they made no promises of what if would do beyond what was available at the time of purchase. You don't like their choices buy a phone that suits your purpose.

There are Android Phones, Linux phones, Symbian phones, Palm phones (supposedly better O/S but crappy hardware/marketing), Samsung (whatever they plan to call their smartphone OS), coming soon Windows 7 phones. So pick one that meets your needs and move on.

All the rants seem to act like Apple is going to control all communications in the universe, its just a stupid smart phone (or tablet).
I mean Google is much more in a position to control information/communications (internet content, office apps, storage, search, advertising,phones, fiber networks, their own O/S, possible now semiconductors, and even talk of them buying into wireless (sprint?) ) from end-to-end then Apple.
post #23 of 166
If Apple were to allow Flash on the iPhone, nobody would ever download a game from the App Store ever again. Launch the Flash app, navigate to a Flash-based game, and never have to buy a game again.

So, in theory, you would only need one app to play a thousand games instead of download a thousand games from the App Store.

Seems like a pretty smart decision if you run a company who happens to want to turn a profit for its shareholders.
post #24 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Android and the rest of the me-too also-rans are perfect for Adobe.

Seemingly, Android is perfect for rapidly increasing numbers of end users as well.
post #25 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

If Apple were to allow Flash on the iPhone, nobody would ever download a game from the App Store ever again. Launch the Flash app, navigate to a Flash-based game, and never have to buy a game again.

So, in theory, you would only need one app to play a thousand games instead of download a thousand games from the App Store.

Seems like a pretty smart decision if you run a company who happens to want to turn a profit for its shareholders.

Right, that makes sense. No one buys PC games anymore, since Flash was first released. Adobe shut down the whole PC game industry!
post #26 of 166
What's 'Flash?'
post #27 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

If Adobe management would show some business acumen, rather than pouting and throwing a hissy-fit...

They would realize that this is a tremendous opportunity for them:

-- currently 85 million (est. 100 million by year end) Apple Mobile Devices that will never run full Flash.
-- currently 0 (est. ? by year end) other Mobile Devices that may or may not run Full Flash
-- many Flash apps won't run properly in a Touch environment (no mouseover)
-- general dissatisfaction among end users with Flash on any computer (resource hog, unstable, security risk, intrusive ads, non-blockable, etc.).


There's one helluvan' opportunity here to provide a better solution and sell the tools and services to implement it.

Who better than Adobe?


Adobe seems to be stuck on "Flash is the answer!"

They should focus on what is the question?

.

Can you answer?
Yes I can,
but what would be the answer to the answer,
man?
post #28 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Once you actually *qualify* the numbers (which some of us have done a long time ago) you'll see how absurd your statement is.

Billions and billions Served by the App Store. But the quality?

ISTM that comparisons to McDonalds are apt. The consumer market is the sweet spot.
post #29 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

On account of how Apple is also in the lowest common denominator junk business, sold for a few dollars a pop

You just described the App Store.
post #30 of 166
very good post. I think Adobe has fallen into a money for nothing long term plan. (actually I'd love to know if they have ANY plans at all for the future other than to bring Flash to toasters). How many 'updates' they can release and charge big money for, and that's about it. a Future of upgrades for $600. And in return these 'upgrades' bring VERY little to the table. I can never quite figure out why Adobe thinks I need to update these tools every 13 months or whatever. By moving panels around or including a new export option....and yet the software, as has been pointed out has gotten glitchier and slower and more crapalicious. I started using Adobe products a long time ago. And there was a time when an upgrade or update or a new version brought plenty of geeky goodness. Now you are lucky if the damn stuff installs in under 3 hours and runs.
Sad.

PS. Maybe it is the Flash dev folks who have helped goof up Adobe's ability to focus? When everyone thought Flash was the only way to do any multimedia and 1 million bad design shops popped up overnight to supply the market with this -gunk- Adobe realized they had suckers on line. No reason to work hard with their other tools when the Flash Corps. are basically an open wallet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

If Adobe management would show some business acumen, rather than pouting and throwing a hissy-fit...

They would realize that this is a tremendous opportunity for them:

-- currently 85 million (est. 100 million by year end) Apple Mobile Devices that will never run full Flash.
-- currently 0 (est. ? by year end) other Mobile Devices that may or may not run Full Flash
-- many Flash apps won't run properly in a Touch environment (no mouseover)
-- general dissatisfaction among end users with Flash on any computer (resource hog, unstable, security risk, intrusive ads, non-blockable, etc.).


There's one helluvan' opportunity here to provide a better solution and sell the tools and services to implement it.

Who better than Adobe?


Adobe seems to be stuck on "Flash is the answer!"

They should focus on what is the question?

.
post #31 of 166
This issue of Flash always makes me see 'red' and if you want to know a company that I would love to drive a bulldozer through, then it is adobe. Someone talked about Adobe could not sue Apple, will all us mac customers should sue Adobe for its lousy, quick, cheap, fixes it calls software, it has tried to sell Mac community in last 10 years, hoping that OS would die and everyone would port to windows based PCs.

Adobe and your evangelist can go shove your empty promises were the sun does not shine. I will stick with iPhone/Mac product, if only NOT to have to deal with Adobe's apparent saviour to us all 'FLASH'

Help kill Adobe's Flash. Join YouTube's HTML5 beta and on Vimeo just click the "Switch to HTML5 player" link below any video. http://www.youtube.com/html5
post #32 of 166
Yeah, because so many other mobile software platforms are better...and doing better right? And people prefer them, right? For Gawds sake, is it impossible to see clearly the success Apple has had and WHY they have had it? It's not tough to see. If you want to write an App and get it in front of 80 million people, without sending it on trucks to sit on Best Buy shelves, release to the Apple App store. If you don't want to, don't. But don't complain that the store doesn't work or is ineffective or it's all bad software.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

You just described the App Store.
post #33 of 166
Flash is just a single multimedia choice in a world of multimedia choices. And it is long in the tooth. I can't see why Flash folks are so sure it is the savior to the world of technology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Right, that makes sense. No one buys PC games anymore, since Flash was first released. Adobe shut down the whole PC game industry!
post #34 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

If Apple were to allow Flash on the iPhone, nobody would ever download a game from the App Store ever again. Launch the Flash app, navigate to a Flash-based game, and never have to buy a game again.

So, in theory, you would only need one app to play a thousand games instead of download a thousand games from the App Store.

Seems like a pretty smart decision if you run a company who happens to want to turn a profit for its shareholders.

This is a very good, and probably accurate post. However, I think Apple's motives are more complicated. First, Flash has long been a source of security problems. If the scenario you suggested was to happen, we'd all open our iPod Touches, iPhones, and iPads to security concerns instead of the scrutinized safe haven that is the App Store. Second, Flash is slow, unreliable, and downright buggy. Adobe has simply become the new Microsoft. Their quality is not as good as it was, and each upgrade isn't all that spectacular over the previous version, however they still charge a king's ransom for each new release.
post #35 of 166
How about that Jobs was doing what is best for Apple and for it's customers? Do I have a mean streak because I don't use flash on my website?

No one, not one single developer can say that Flash is a well developed, stable and growing part of mobile computing. If it was there would be no discussion.

And if consumers REALLY want Flash, Apple products will fail, like they are doing now...right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Right, that makes sense. No one buys PC games anymore, since Flash was first released. Adobe shut down the whole PC game industry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I don't think they "get it" at all. I think Adobe is well on its way to becoming a cautionary tale, studied in business school.
post #36 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

No one buys PC games anymore, since Flash was first released. Adobe shut down the whole PC game industry!

Ummmm, no! What has ruined the PC gaming market is Microsoft's entry into the game console market: The XBox and XBox 360. Consoles have always been around, but the current crop of high powered consoles combined with 1080P HDTV's and Microsoft's ignoring of PC gaming to foster the XBox has all but ruined the PC gaming market.
post #37 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleZilla View Post

What's 'Flash?'

I don't know what all the fuss is about.



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post #38 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

Ummmm, no! What has ruined the PC gaming market is Microsoft's entry into the game console market: The XBox and XBox 360. Consoles have always been around, but the current crop of high powered consoles combined with 1080P HDTV's and Microsoft's ignoring of PC gaming to foster the XBox has all but ruined the PC gaming market.

Well, I was being sarcastic -- i.e., Flash did not stop people from buying non-Flash games on platforms where Flash is available, nor, were it available on iPhone OS, would it there.
post #39 of 166
Hey Adobe, while you're at it... please consider abandoning the Flash platform too. You've done a pretty good job crippling it already. Not much of a step to simply pull the plug on it.
post #40 of 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerWilco View Post

All the rants seem to act like Apple is going to control all communications in the universe, its just a stupid smart phone (or tablet).
I mean Google is much more in a position to control information/communications (internet content, office apps, storage, search, advertising,phones, fiber networks, their own O/S, possible now semiconductors, and even talk of them buying into wireless (sprint?) ) from end-to-end then Apple.

Well said - I love Apple hardware and software... but if it does not suit, it is good for the consumer as there are other choices here. The problem is that as soon as you pick up an iPad the mindshare takes right over... Resisting that and having another platform instead becomes a difficult choice indeed...
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