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Apple strikes back at Adobe, says Flash is 'closed and proprietary' - Page 2

post #41 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I think you guys are both just making arbitrary distinctions that don't mean very much. Also, the implication that Steve Jobs or Apple agrees with these distinctions is wrong.

The iPad is most definitely a computer in the technical sense and colloquially, it's a computer to most people who use/buy it.

We may both be right. Most people who buy computers don't need/use all the capabilities that it has. They just want to do email and look at stuff (web pages, facebook, pictures, and movies. Apple has created a new class of device for that. Okay, call it a computer colloquially if you want, but they are doing very little computation. By your definition maybe even the iPhone is a computer. And that's okay, but it stretches the term computer too far. We need new words that make descriptive distinctions between all the computer-like devices out there now.

For those who produce (as opposed to consume) things, a computer that can easily create content is essential. Ask anyone who has tried to build a Keynote presentation from scratch on an iPad. Very difficult. Same thing with editing media. Heck, even sharing a document and printing are not not easy.

I will get an iPad (probably v2). And it will take the place of my iPhone for some things, and my laptop for others. But not everything for both. It's not a computer, it's a tablet or slate.
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post #42 of 282
Wow! How hostile you people are. If only you really new what Adobe was really offering and how superior it's development environment is to Apple's. You know it doesn't just do advertisements and games. That's just the crappy stuff that any idiot could make with Flash. I work for an top notch automaker developing in Flash. You want to know what we use Flash for? We develop interactive training material that shows technicians how cars work and how to fix them. We have been developing an ongoing curriculum for the past five years. We have won numerous awards for our animations, interactivity, and artwork.

So what does Flash do for us? Not only is it a platform that allows us to create animations that show the innards of a car, but it is used to test the technician, keep track of their scores, grade them and submit their stats to a database that the corporation uses to track their technicians progress and skills.

We also wrote a side app the track the hours and cost of the development of each training module that we develop.

The modules are designed to be fully translatable.

To get the same thing out of objective-c, HTML5, CSS, and/or Javascript would be unfeasible. First of all, there's no animation timeline that can be used to create the animation. There's no Tweening, There aren't any filters, and so in order to create an entire animation would require making it into a MP4 format. The result?? A massively huge file that only those with fast broadband could view. Javascript could animate through code, but it still would be missing many of the key aspects required to create shape tweens, and filters.

So, why is HTML5 so superior? It's not. If you knew anything about Flash, you would know that HTML5 is still HTML. It might play videos, but it's not good for much else. Supplement it with Javascript, and you still don't have superiority over flash. It's just not ready for that level of work.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of Open Source, and maybe Adobe will open source all of Flash (FYI... Part of Flash is open source).

Why they ever catch up to Flash? As long as Flash is being aggressively pushed by I Adobe, I don't see that happening.

Apple's latest move is just spiteful. You weren't going to get Flash, but you would have gotten apps developed in the innovative Flash environment, which I believe would mean better quality Apps with cool transitions and effects. The app would have been Native.... And I do mean Native. Early tests showed that it was also fast.

The stability? That generally comes down to the developer. How well the program the app and how much time they put into debugging. Objective-C programming can be butchered just as badly as any other programming language. It really doesn't matter what language a program is written in. As long as it's written well.

My point? You have no idea what you are missing. But I guess it doesn't matter does it. If you don't know what your missing, then you don't miss it do you?!

Adobe's Position - Write software in Flash and deploy it on multiple platforms at the sametime so that everyone can enjoy and benefit.

Apple's Position - We'll have none of that. We're too good for that.

Good luck with that position.
post #43 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Wizard View Post

I find that a very funny statement coming from Apple. Didnt they just squelch a company for selling hardware with Apple OS on them. They also have no open market for software developers within the IPhone only what they approve of. Pot calling the Kettle black I would say...

Nothing funny. If i was a junky (and i was long time ago) my critics on you being junky would not really matter as we are the same. That is the thing that is wrong in Adobes comments.

P.S. would not it be a huge cash saver for adobe to adopt flash to mac os? i know nothing...
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post #44 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Jobs & Co refer to the iPad as a mobile device. It's not a computer. It's a tablet built primarily for consumption of media.

Thompson

Lets see....It has a processor, it has RAM, it has storage, it has inputs, and outputs to a typical computer screen, it runs the same programs that can be found on computers, You write the programs with the same language that you write computer programs with....Sounds like a computer to me. It's only a matter of time before someone puts Linux on it.....Not a computer? You can call cake by any name you want, but it's still cake.
post #45 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

We may both be right. Most people who buy computers don't need/use as the capabilities that it has. They just want to do email and look at stuff (web pages, facebook, pictures, and movies. Apple has created a new class of device for that. Okay, call it a computer colloquially if you want, but they are doing very little computation. By your definition maybe even the iPhone is a computer. And that's okay, but it stretches the term computer too far. We need new words that make descriptive distinctions between all the computer-like devices out there now.

For those who produce (as opposed to consume) things, a computer that can easily create content is essential. Ask anyone who has tried to build a Keynote presentation from scratch on an iPad. Very difficult. Same thing with editing media. Heck, even sharing a document and printing are not not easy.

I will get an iPad (probably v2). And it will take the place of my iPhone for some things, and my laptop for others. But not everything for both. It's not a computer, it's a tablet or slate.

A smartphone IS a computer........ A Smartphone is a combination of a Palm top computer and a phone....... In the same sense, an iTouch is a computer too. All it is is a palmtop computer that is marketed as a video/audio device.
post #46 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Yep....Fanboy responses...Love how they get so irrational. It's one heck of a coping mechanisim to help look past possible shortcomings or flaws....I'll just have a glass of water please.

Oh, and you're not? Read your own brown nosing Adobe post.
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post #47 of 282
I love Apple's products as much as the next fanboy, but it's "the pot calling the kettle black" here. Both Apple and Adobe have closed systems. For the most part, companies want open systems, not consumers. I think Flash will be fine on Android in the Enterprise.

Just imagine Steve saying "Today Apple is announcing our new iPhone 4G AND other hardware partners to produce iPhone OS compatible devices including HTC." Meanwhile, the HTC lawsuit is dropped and has guaranteed revenue from Apple for a year.
post #48 of 282
Quote:
meh, adobe dosn't need apple. They have over 90% of the computers in the world using flash. They must be doing something right. Besides, there are many things you can do with flash that you won't be able to do with html 5.

yet!!!
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post #49 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Paragraphs are your friend.

Aww come on now I read through several of your posts that did not contain paragraphs. Your writing style looks like one line paragraphs. Paragraphs are usually around 4 sentances.
post #50 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by blullama View Post

Adobe's Position - Write software in Flash and deploy it on multiple platforms at the sametime so that everyone can enjoy and benefit.

Apple's Position - We'll have none of that. We're too good for that.

Good luck with that position.

Interesting post, but too bad you didn't put as much effort into articulating the reasons behind Apple's position instead of just drawing a mustache on it.
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post #51 of 282
The more Apple slags on Adobe, the worse it is for Adobe. I'm kinda beginning to feel sorry for them now.
post #52 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Meh, Adobe dosn't need Apple. They have over 90% of the computers in the world using Flash. They must be doing something right.

Yes they are doing something right on the desktops. But they do not have 90% of mobile devices. They have 0% of "real" flash mobile. This is why they are in panic mode and making unthoughtful comments.

Flash lite is a joke ... and the phones i've seen that claim to have flash 9 and 10 do not work on sites I went to.

Can someone demonstrate to me that their phone with flash 9 and 10 work on flash websites? We already know flash lite does not work. I've been open minded and tried to find an answer to this, but so far no dice.

I love flash for desktop and use flash in 100% of website i've developed. The sad fact is that I have to have a static image show up when flash is not available on the phones to avoid the dreaded white boxes.

The question is what do i do when html5 comes out full bore in IE? I would never consider html 5 in browser markets current state. IE owns the browser business and will dictate the technologies we employ (unfortunately). html5 doesn't work with IE8 and under!
post #53 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

A smartphone IS a computer........ A Smartphone is a combination of a Palm top computer and a phone....... In the same sense, an iTouch is a computer too. All it is is a palmtop computer that is marketed as a video/audio device.

You seem to want to be right very badly. Okay, you're right. Now go away.
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post #54 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Adobe had better pray that there is never an iPhone on Verizon because the Droid is the only reason why Android has any market share.

Not true. Apple has been annoying enough lately that I might switch to the Droid next time I upgrade. I'm an adult and I don't need Steve Jobs telling me what apps I can and can not load onto my device, or what apps I can and cannot develop. Apple's approach is good for the timid and the elderly. It's like the Jitterbug of smart phones.
post #55 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

This will be taken care of next year is presume.

Tim Cook (I believe) all but said that there are only 3 areas where the iPhone has single carrier exclusity (Spain, US and another country).

Belgium.
post #56 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

"We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk" - Steve Jobs

Price of an iPad - $499

Not feeding this troll would be a good thing.

On the article, I do find it funny that apple has an issue with a closed platform, the iPhone/iPad API's os's are as closed as you can get, with the approval aspect. I am OK with it, but would not be throwing stones.
post #57 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

Not true. Apple has been annoying enough lately that I might switch to the Droid next time I upgrade. I'm an adult and I don't need Steve Jobs telling me what apps I can and can not load onto my device, or what apps I can and cannot develop. Apple's approach is good for the timid and the elderly. It's like the Jitterbug of smart phones.

Funny how everyone wants to do the jitterbug, isn't it?
post #58 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_Wizard View Post

I find that a very funny statement coming from Apple. Didnt they just squelch a company for selling hardware with Apple OS on them. They also have no open market for software developers within the IPhone only what they approve of. Pot calling the Kettle black I would say...

There are plenty of other opportunities for developers to write software, if they don't like the rules, don't play the game.
post #59 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Oh, and you're not? Read your own brown nosing Adobe post.

I am far from a fanboy. Fanboy's typically spout off made up, or 3rd party information they they read from another person posting without confirming it. I don't see legtimatly defending a product from critisism as a Fanboy action. Fanboys say whatever they can if it is true or not, and write rationalizing statements to defend flaws and shortcomings in what they are defending.
I am merly stating what is fact that you CAN verify with some easy Google searches for those who are capable. I am sorry Apple feels the way they do, and I am even more sorry that some people are sheepish enough to agree with everything Apple does. Apple is walking on YOUR rights. They are taking away YOUR ability to choose. With Apple's devices in a controlled jail, they control content. Then control what you have have to consume content. They control how you will consume that content.
I know there are Apple users out there who are decent peace loving people who have a good head on their shoulders, but there are also ones out there who do not. If you truly dislike the product on your own, and not because Apple dosn't like it fine. But if you all of a suddent have a problem now that Apple has made headlines about it, I don't have the time of day for you. I would prefer someone real, and not a senseless follower...
post #60 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by blullama View Post


Apple's latest move is just spiteful. You weren't going to get Flash, but you would have gotten apps developed in the innovative Flash environment, which I believe would mean better quality Apps with cool transitions and effects. The app would have been Native.... And I do mean Native. Early tests showed that it was also fast.

The stability? That generally comes down to the developer. How well the program the app and how much time they put into debugging. Objective-C programming can be butchered just as badly as any other programming language. It really doesn't matter what language a program is written in. As long as it's written well.

My point? You have no idea what you are missing. But I guess it doesn't matter does it. If you don't know what your missing, then you don't miss it do you?!

Adobe's Position - Write software in Flash and deploy it on multiple platforms at the sametime so that everyone can enjoy and benefit.

Apple's Position - We'll have none of that. We're too good for that.

Good luck with that position.

Apple's not railing against Flash in its entirety. Flash is and will continue to be a rich development and playback environment for Apple notebook and desktop platforms. What it "isn't" going to be is the ideal runtime for mobile environments.
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post #61 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woode View Post

Where are the usual Flash apologists now that Adobe has caved?

Adobe stopped paying them...
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post #62 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantz View Post

Belgium.

Germany.
post #63 of 282
whats the problem with flash? It might not be perfect, but it's everywhere on the web and i don't see anyone paying royalties to use it?...why not just support it already? It would just make the iphone/ipad a better device...
post #64 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Lets see....It has a processor, it has RAM, it has storage, it has inputs, and outputs to a typical computer screen, it runs the same programs that can be found on computers, You write the programs with the same language that you write computer programs with....Sounds like a computer to me. It's only a matter of time before someone puts Linux on it.....Not a computer? You can call cake by any name you want, but it's still cake.

You really don't get it do you?
By your definition the iPhone is also a computer, but then so is a Sony Playstation or an XBox or a Wii.

It is a computer in the sense it has some of the same components, but is purpose is defined by its USE, not by what it is made from.

Once you understand the difference between an iPad and the device that have come before it, you will probably have grown up.
post #65 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Aww come on now I read through several of your posts that did not contain paragraphs. Your writing style looks like one line paragraphs. Paragraphs are usually around 4 sentances.

Sentences.

paragraph |ˈparəgrɑːf|
noun
a distinct section of a piece of writing, usually dealing with a single theme and indicated by a new line, indentation, or numbering.
post #66 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Jobs & Co refer to the iPad as a mobile device. It's not a computer. It's a tablet built primarily for consumption of media.

Thompson

The iPad: It is not a computer; it is magical.

Why worry about redefining words to meet Apple marketingspeak? What's the point?
post #67 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Aww come on now I read through several of your posts that did not contain paragraphs. Your writing style looks like one line paragraphs. Paragraphs are usually around 4 sentances.

LOL ..what can I can say druble. I love the spacebar.

Oop there I go doing it again. You know the part the bugs me is that Apple probably wouldn't have rejected Flash on Apple mobile devices had Adobe spent the energy to evangelize Cocoa as an API via updating their own Mac apps. Instead they clung to Carbon because that was in "their" best interest and finally Apple had to kill it via refusing to do a Carbon 64-bit version.

Adobe never scratched Apple's back and thusly, turnabout being fair play, Apple's not going to scratch Adobe's.
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post #68 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by blullama View Post

Wow! How hostile you people are. If only you really new what Adobe was really offering and how superior it's development environment is to Apple's. You know it doesn't just do advertisements and games. That's just the crappy stuff that any idiot could make with Flash. I work for an top notch automaker developing in Flash. You want to know what we use Flash for? We develop interactive training material that shows technicians how cars work and how to fix them. We have been developing an ongoing curriculum for the past five years. We have won numerous awards for our animations, interactivity, and artwork...blah blah blah blah blah

So you do something that most people don't do. Big deal. You don't represent the majority of what Flash is known for. I am sure there are other programs like yours out there, but it's a minor share. Bottom line, Apple is moving on, Adobe is moving on and you will always be left behind until your company decides it's time to do something new with different development tools. Hostile indeed.
post #69 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_dog View Post


so...what are some good alternatives to photoshop, illustrator and indesign? and, please don't say quark.


On a Mac, your choices are extremely limited.
post #70 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

You seem to want to be right very badly. Okay, you're right. Now go away.

I choose to be informed about a topic before I open my mouth so I can avoid saying things that might make me look silly to the ones who are informed. Sorry that it must be a huge crime for someone like me to provide clarification to a topic I am informed on, to help others so they do not read false information and take it to heart as truth. There is too much of that these days in news comments... If people did not make mistakes, they would never learn anything. Should I not try to teach a fellow human right when they make a mistake?
post #71 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

I am far from a fanboy. Fanboy's typically spout off made up, or 3rd party information they they read from another person posting without confirming it. I don't see legtimatly defending a product from critisism as a Fanboy action. Fanboys say whatever they can if it is true or not, and write rationalizing statements to defend flaws and shortcomings in what they are defending.
I am merly stating what is fact that you CAN verify with some easy Google searches for those who are capable. I am sorry Apple feels the way they do, and I am even more sorry that some people are sheepish enough to agree with everything Apple does. Apple is walking on YOUR rights. They are taking away YOUR ability to choose. With Apple's devices in a controlled jail, they control content. Then control what you have have to consume content. They control how you will consume that content.
I know there are Apple users out there who are decent peace loving people who have a good head on their shoulders, but there are also ones out there who do not. If you truly dislike the product on your own, and not because Apple dosn't like it fine. But if you all of a suddent have a problem now that Apple has made headlines about it, I don't have the time of day for you. I would prefer someone real, and not a senseless follower...

Apple are NOT walking on YOUR rights.

Are you forced to buy an iPhone? No.
Are there other smart phones on the market? Yes
Can you buy them? Yes
Do you have a free mind? Yes (in your case not so sure).
Can you chose to not use an Apple device and still live a happy life? Yes

If you don't like the Apple device or the way it is controlled, then I have some simple advice - DON"T BUY AN IPHONE. How hard was that?

You have no RIGHTS to have an Apple device that is designed and made just for you.
You have no RIGHTS to even purchase one, if they don't want to sell you one.

Get a grip and move on.....
post #72 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

We need new words that make descriptive distinctions between all the computer-like devices out there now.

.


Fine. And until then, is it OK to call the iPad a computer? Given that it IS a computer?
post #73 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

I choose to be informed about a topic before I open my mouth so I can avoid saying things that might make me look silly to the ones who are informed. Sorry that it must be a huge crime for someone like me to provide clarification to a topic I am informed on, to help others so they do not read false information and take it to heart as truth. There is too much of that these days in news comments... If people did not make mistakes, they would never learn anything. Should I not try to teach a fellow human right when they make a mistake?

Honest answer, no, keep your mouth closed, give us a break.
post #74 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

On a Mac, your choices are extremely limited.

Hell on a PC your choices are extremely limited.

When Adobe conquered Macromedia's Xres and Live Picture it pretty much chilled the market for high end photo creation/manipulation tools.

The only think we have now are smaller apps that can do a subset of Photoshop for a much better price.
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post #75 of 282
I am merly stating what is fact that you CAN verify with some easy Google searches for those who are capable.
  • Because everything you read on the internet is true, right?

Apple is walking on YOUR rights. They are taking away YOUR ability to choose.
  • No, they aren't. You have every right to choose another platform/product

If you truly dislike the product on your own, and not because Apple dosn't like it fine.
  • Which is why I have had Click-to-Flash installed from its beginning and never looked back, Flash sucks no matter what Apple says
post #76 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The more Apple slags on Adobe, the worse it is for Adobe. I'm kinda beginning to feel sorry for them now.

Why is it worse for Adobe? Do you really think Apple's feud is on Joe Lunchbox's radar?

Only geeks know about this stuff. All the Regular Consumers only know that the iPad doesn't play web video.
post #77 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

You seem to want to be right very badly. Okay, you're right. Now go away.

What a cop out. He IS right. And you are wrong.

Don't talk about his emotions. Stick to the facts.

The iPad is a computer.
post #78 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Aww come on now I read through several of your posts that did not contain paragraphs. Your writing style looks like one line paragraphs. Paragraphs are usually around 4 sentances.

In my home land we say that shortness is talent's sister
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post #79 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

"We don't know how to make a $500 computer that's not a piece of junk" - Steve Jobs

Price of an iPad - $499

He’s talking about netbooks. The iPad isn’t a netbook.
post #80 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Apple's not railing against Flash in its entirety. Flash is and will continue to be a rich development and playback environment for Apple notebook and desktop platforms.

Wrong. Steve has railed against Flash on the desktop. Specifically mentioning how Macs often crash when surfing the internet.
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