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Apple strikes back at Adobe, says Flash is 'closed and proprietary' - Page 3

post #81 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

You really don't get it do you?
By your definition the iPhone is also a computer, but then so is a Sony Playstation or an XBox or a Wii.

It is a computer in the sense it has some of the same components, but is purpose is defined by its USE, not by what it is made from.

Once you understand the difference between an iPad and the device that have come before it, you will probably have grown up.

They are computers. Some computers are more limited then others. Some computers are purpose built. Apparently by your beliefs, a Server must not be a computer either because it dosn't have computer in the name? You can put Linux on all 3 gaming consols and they are full blown computers. You can also put linux on the iPhone and iTouch. Just because Steve Jobs does not call it a computer does not make it true. What is that GUI thing called on the iPhone or iTouch? Oh yeah, it's called an Operating System. What uses operating systems? Computers. What are computers good for? Internet, communications, games, video, audio. What are Playstations, XBox's, iPhones, iTouchs good for? you guessed it, the same thing computers are good for. I have worked several jobs in the IT field. I know a computer when I see one. Just because you want to be right without understanding what you are talking about does not make something true just because you believe it. ******
post #82 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyz001 View Post

whats the problem with flash? It might not be perfect, but it's everywhere on the web and i don't see anyone paying royalties to use it?...why not just support it already? It would just make the iphone/ipad a better device...



Adobe is lazy. Isn't that a good enough reason?
post #83 of 282
When has adobe enjoyed a 13$ rise of share price in a single hour? That is it

Adobe "is doomed"
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post #84 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonder View Post

Apple are NOT walking on YOUR rights.

Are you forced to buy an iPhone? No.
Are there other smart phones on the market? Yes
Can you buy them? Yes
Do you have a free mind? Yes (in your case not so sure).
Can you chose to not use an Apple device and still live a happy life? Yes

If you don't like the Apple device or the way it is controlled, then I have some simple advice - DON"T BUY AN IPHONE. How hard was that?

You have no RIGHTS to have an Apple device that is designed and made just for you.
You have no RIGHTS to even purchase one, if they don't want to sell you one.

Get a grip and move on.....

What Apple is doing can affect devices I use that are not Apple. If they succeeded in turning everyone against Adobe, and Flash dies all together, where was my choice based on what Apple is going right now. They started with their own users, and now they are expanding in to other peoples business. Apple tries to do things like sue people for using multitouch and then technologies that drive it, when other companies own those technologies and Apple dosn't even pay them for stealing the technology. Cisco owns the name iPhone by the way. Look it up. They turned their nose up to Cisco in the middle of negotiations and just stole it.
I can't read about a single product that is not Apple without someone coming in claiming Apple is better then everything. They tried to delay competetion from releasing products with false lawsuits. You are saying that I can choose something other than Apple and it wont affect me? No I don't have to have an Apple product to be affected by them and the people who respond to Apples beckon. What Apple is doing now could have an effect on the entire world. Apple is over stepping their bounds.
post #85 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

You seem to want to be right very badly. Okay, you're right. Now go away.

post #86 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

Not true. Apple has been annoying enough lately that I might switch to the Droid next time I upgrade. I'm an adult and I don't need Steve Jobs telling me what apps I can and can not load onto my device, or what apps I can and cannot develop. Apple's approach is good for the timid and the elderly. It's like the Jitterbug of smart phones.

You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon. The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.

I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken). From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?
post #87 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Apple's not railing against Flash in its entirety. Flash is and will continue to be a rich development and playback environment for Apple notebook and desktop platforms. What it "isn't" going to be is the ideal runtime for mobile environments.

I'm not so sure I can agree with this...

Imagine if you will some new snazzy web property being backed by big named VC firms and lots of rich and interesting content. A web site the likes of which have never been seen before. Now being a fly on the wall at the planning stage of the site... Is anyone going to even dare whisper the words .... 'hey we should use lots of flash it's really cool!'

Now, lets talk about ordinary run of the mill web site that may already use flash, do you think they will continue to utilize and/or implement MORE flash or find as many ways as possible to REDUCE flash?

Finally would you suggest the flash developer market will be expanding or retracting over the next few years?
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post #88 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by blullama View Post

Wow! How hostile you people are. If only you really new what Adobe was really offering and how superior it's development environment is to Apple's. You know it doesn't just do advertisements and games. That's just the crappy stuff that any idiot could make with Flash. I work for an top notch automaker developing in Flash. You want to know what we use Flash for? We develop interactive training material that shows technicians how cars work and how to fix them. We have been developing an ongoing curriculum for the past five years. We have won numerous awards for our animations, interactivity, and artwork.

[...]

To get the same thing out of objective-c, HTML5, CSS, and/or Javascript would be unfeasible. [...]

Just because you don't know how to do in outside of Flash, doesn't make it unfeasible in another development environment.
post #89 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Not feeding this troll would be a good thing.

On the article, I do find it funny that apple has an issue with a closed platform, the iPhone/iPad API's os's are as closed as you can get, with the approval aspect. I am OK with it, but would not be throwing stones.

You seem a little smarter then they typical users on here, so I will let you in on a secret. That little quote from Steve is what I like to call a profiler post. It can give insight to the people who respond. I would tend to give you a little more credibility based on your post and the caliber of response. Very mature and intelligent aside from calling me a troll, but I won't elaborate any further. Gotta use the Psychology education somehow ;P
post #90 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products

Android has a walled garden? Force users to use their products?

Do you have examples?
post #91 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

Wrong. Steve has railed against Flash on the desktop. Specifically mentioning how Macs often crash when surfing the internet.

That's true. My stability is markedly increased since installing Click2Flash.

Flash isn't going away but its best days may be behind it. 100 million Flashless devices will get advertiser attention.


Apple doesn't need to defeat Flash, they simple need to hobble it long enough for HTML5 proponents like SproutCore, Cappucino, Atlas, Jillion and others to close the gap enough.
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post #92 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon. The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.

I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken). From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?

Obviously, you don't know anything about Android or what Jailbroken means.

No, your Android phone doesn't need to be rooted or jailbroken in order to develop apps. You just change a setting on the phone to allow "apps from Unknown Sources." Then you can install any app whether it's one you develop or one from outside the market.

Jailbroken means that you remove the lock on the wireless carrier that the phone is locked down to. In Apple's case, that's AT&T.

The Nexus One, by the way, is only available through Google, and not through a wireless carrier. But, it currently only works with T-Mobile, which has a limited userbase in the first place. Google hasn't announced the availability of a Verizon version yet, but they promised it would come. So, considering they don't do any advertising and they haven't made it so that you can walk into a Wireless store and walk out with one, Nexus One is doing quite well.

So, stop spreading around lies.
post #93 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Hell on a PC your choices are extremely limited.

When Adobe conquered Macromedia's Xres and Live Picture it pretty much chilled the market for high end photo creation/manipulation tools.

The only think we have now are smaller apps that can do a subset of Photoshop for a much better price.

I don't think that your statement is valid beyond personal belief. Try installing and running any piece of hardware you want and see if it works. Hardware choice is a huge limitation. As far as software. The ratio of programs available on a Apple and a PC are staggering in the PC's favor. I just don't see any limitations. I can run any hardware and software I want, and there is way more of it available.
post #94 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

The only people calling it a computer are those criticizing it. It's a media consumption device with a few "computer-like" features built in. If you want an Apple computer that is a computer be prepared to pay $1K.

Well, it is technically a computer. It does have pretty much all hardware and software parts that do make a computer.
post #95 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon.

I don't think so. I think the Droid can go head-to-head with the iPhone. Its more configurable. Its notification system is better. It's got a physical keyboard. It is more 'internet aware' (i.e. it's better at syncing with the cloud. No need to dock the thing.) There's a lot to like about it. My wife loves her Droid, and scoffs at my wimpy girly iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.

I think the thing that hurt the Nexus One had everything to do with its distribution channel and very little to do with the quality of the device. I haven't played with one, but I have heard they are quite good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken).

Not a good analogy. By default Droid phones only let you install apps from the market, but if you want to side-load other apps, all you need to do is confirm the "Are you sure you want to do this?" dialog. Google supports side-loading apps, they just want to make sure you know what you're doing. There's a big difference between this and Apple's actively hostile attitude towards jailbreaking.

They also work with Flash, and have no issue with developers using whatever tools they deem appropriate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?

We will see. Apple's draconian developer agreement and their opaque and unfair approval process are turning a lot of developers off. I was originally interested in developing apps for the Apple ecosystem. Now, I see it as too risky. I could spend a year coding only to have the approval police send me packing. Over time in the area of apps, openness will win. This goes double for tablet devices.
post #96 of 282
My point? You have no idea what you are missing. But I guess it doesn't matter does it. If you don't know what your missing, then you don't miss it do you?!

Adobe's Position - Write software in Flash and deploy it on multiple platforms at the sametime so that everyone can enjoy and benefit.

Apple's Position - We'll have none of that. We're too good for that.

Good luck with that position.[/QUOTE]

iPhone os (Flash free iPhone + iPod touch + iPad +...)

Consumer satisfaction: sky high

Market penetration: going viral

Competition: copycat galore

Don't need no luck, ...make my own!
post #97 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

I don't think that your statement is valid beyond personal belief. Try installing and running any piece of hardware you want and see if it works. Hardware choice is a huge limitation. As far as software. The ratio of programs available on a Apple and a PC are staggering in the PC's favor. I just don't see any limitations. I can run any hardware and software I want, and there is way more of it available.

Your post is amazingly devoid of outstanding options in software. Pray tell what Photoshop competitors should I be looking for on a PC.

As always the PC market will have more software but a large portion of said software will be utter crap and would not cut muster in the Mac market where even shadetree developers are expected to deliver functional products in performance and UI.
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post #98 of 282
[QUOTE=graxspoo;1617642]I don't think so. I think the Droid can go head-to-head with the iPhone. Its more configurable. Its notification system is better. It's got a physical keyboard. It is more 'internet aware' (i.e. it's better at syncing with the cloud. No need to dock the thing.) There's a lot to like about it. My wife loves her Droid, and scoffs at my wimpy girly iPhone.

Don't forget the droid has better hardware! I love my WM6 phone, but when I upgrade again, I am going to droid. Microsoft is even jumping on the band wagon and locking things down, so I have to abandon them. I love what they are doing with the new phones, the WP7 phones will be amazing and possibly superior to the iPhone based on the leaked specs, but in the end I don't need someone looming overhead ready to tell me what I can and can't do.
post #99 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

That's true. My stability is markedly increased since installing Click2Flash.

Flash isn't going away but its best days may be behind it. 100 million Flashless devices will get advertiser attention.


Apple doesn't need to defeat Flash, they simple need to hobble it long enough for HTML5 proponents like SproutCore, Cappucino, Atlas, Jillion and others to close the gap enough.


Except now, advertisers have to advertise through iAd. How is that good for advertisers?

Just out of curiosity, maybe an Apple User could go to http://labs.adobe.com and download the release candidate for Flash 10.1 to see if the new version of Flash will have resolved the crashing issues... I don't doubt that after Apple jabbed at Adobe, that it may have gotten their attention. Though, I doubt that would be enough to satisfy Apple users.
post #100 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

Apple is walking on YOUR rights. They are taking away YOUR ability to choose. With Apple's devices in a controlled jail, they control content. Then control what you have have to consume content. They control how you will consume that content.

Wrong - You still have the right to not buy an Apple device. And why should Apple not be allowed to cotrol the content of their devices? That's like saying Ford should be forced to sell you a new Focus with a Dodge Nitro engine in it if that's what you wanted.

I for one am glad that Apple has "stuck to their guns" and remained exclusive. That's the main reason their computers keep running, and running, and running, and running, and running, and running, and..............for years. That is something a MicroSuck based machine will never do as long a you can put any p.o.s. software on it that you want to.
post #101 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

We will see. Apple's draconian developer agreement and their opaque and unfair approval process are turning a lot of developers off. I was originally interested in developing apps for the Apple ecosystem. Now, I see it as too risky. I could spend a year coding only to have the approval police send me packing. Over time in the area of apps, openness will win. This goes double for tablet devices.

Good

Those developers who are not focused on their craft and a bit renegade need to look elsewhere for a platform. Funny how many "potential" developers suddenly think they're the Gordon Gekko of mobile application development. Newsflash there are almost 200k apps on the app store. The mountain doesn't come to Mohammed.
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post #102 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Adobe's market cap is 18bil. Apple could buy them today and dissolve flash

Only if Apple and Adobe were only two strong companies in IT market.

I think that someone like MS could be much more interested than Apple. If nothing else, Apple already has Final Cut, Aperture, photo and video apps with iLife... while MS hasn't got pretty much anything related to photo, video and DTP creation. CS5 suite would perfectly fit in with their existing offerings.

As it is, considering market shares, MS is perfectly fine with independent Adobe, knowing that Adobe will develop software for Windows... but if Adobe would end up for sale, I think MS would fight for it 'till the last $ of their money - proprietary, OSX-only CS6 would be very unpleasant for them.
post #103 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by druble View Post

You seem a little smarter then they typical users on here, so I will let you in on a secret. That little quote from Steve is what I like to call a profiler post. It can give insight to the people who respond. I would tend to give you a little more credibility based on your post and the caliber of response. Very mature and intelligent aside from calling me a troll, but I won't elaborate any further. Gotta use the Psychology education somehow ;P

Hehe psychology, have a persecution complex?
Or maybe something to prove?

hehe
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post #104 of 282
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Originally Posted by blullama View Post

Except now, advertisers have to advertise through iAd. How is that good for advertisers?

Just out of curiosity, maybe an Apple User could go to http://labs.adobe.com and download the release candidate for Flash 10.1 to see if the new version of Flash will have resolved the crashing issues... I don't doubt that after Apple jabbed at Adobe, that it may have gotten their attention. Though, I doubt that would be enough to satisfy Apple users.

No...Adobe needs to offer a pound of flesh at this point. Outside of the publishing industry their reputation amongst Mac users is poor. Much like Microsoft, many Mac users today are actively looking to rid themselves of Adobe software.

I'm going with Aperture as soon as I get my Canon DSLR. Probably would never need Photoshop for my basic needs.

Flash is undoubtedly cool for some needs but the neglect that Adobe offered to Mac users isn't something that's going to be forgotten anytime soon.
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post #105 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Berp View Post

My point? You have no idea what you are missing. But I guess it doesn't matter does it. If you don't know what your missing, then you don't miss it do you?!

Adobe's Position - Write software in Flash and deploy it on multiple platforms at the sametime so that everyone can enjoy and benefit.

Apple's Position - We'll have none of that. We're too good for that.

Good luck with that position.

iPhone os (Flash free iPhone + iPod touch + iPad +...)

Consumer satisfaction: sky high

Market penetration: going viral

Competition: copycat galore

Don't need no luck, ...make my own![/QUOTE]

Copycats galore? The world does not revolve around Apple. It revolves around PC's. Name one single technology Apple has used that someone did not use before Apple. Even at their roots, the GUI that made Apple so famous was licensed from Xerox. Seems Apple copies others. They just have good marketing, thats all. Some people do try to copy Apple, but a lot of people are not trying to copy Apple. The sooner people realize that, we will stop seeing pointless comparisons of products to Apple products.
post #106 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

Android has a walled garden? Force users to use their products?

Do you have examples?

Android has a walled garden, but it's just a bigger playground than Apple's. Maybe you and I have different meanings for what is "open". Am I mistaken in that you need some kind of Google ID to use most, if not all, Android phones? How are they a walled garden? Well:

1. Private branches. There are multiple, private codelines available to selected partners (typically the OEM working on an Android project) on a need-to-know basis only. The private codelines are an estimated 6+ months ahead of the public SDK and therefore essential for an OEM to stay competitive. The main motivation for the public SDK and source code is to introduce the latest features (those stemming from private branches) into third party apps.

2.* Closed review process. All code reviewers work for Google, meaning that Google is the only authority that can accept or reject a code submission from the community. There is also a rampant NIH (not invented here) culture inside Google that assumes code written by Googlers is second to none. Ask anyone whos tried to contribute a patch to Android and you hear the same story: very few contributions get in and often no reason is offered on rejection.

3. Speed of evolution. Google innovates the Android platform at a speed thats unprecedented for the mobile industry, releasing 4 major updates (1.6* to 2.1) in 18 months. OEMs wanting to build on Android have no choice but to stay close to Google so as not to lose on new features/bug fixes released. The Nexus One, Motorola Droid, HTC G1 and other Experience handsets serve the purpose of innovation testbeds for Google.

4. Incomplete software. The public SDK source code is by no means sufficient to build a handset. Key building blocks missing are radio integration, international language packs, operator packs and of course Googles closed source apps like Market, Gmail and GTalk. There are a few custom ROM builders with a full Android stack like the Cyanogen distribution, but these use binaries that are not licensed for distribution in commercial handsets.

5. Gated developer community. Android Market is the exclusive distribution and discovery channel for the 40,000+ apps created by developers; and is available to phone manufacturers on separate agreement. This is one of the strongest control points as no OEM would dare produce a handset that doesnt tap into the Android Market (perhaps with the exception of DECT phones, picture frames, in-car terminals or other exotic uses of Android). However, one should acknowledge that Androids acceptance process for Market apps is liberal as it gets and the complete antithesis of the Apple vetting process for apps.

6. Anti-fragmentation agreement. Little is known about the anti-fragmentation agreement signed by OHA members but we understand its a commitment to not release handsets which are not CTS compliant.

7. Private roadmap. The visibility offered into Androids roadmap is pathetic. At the time of writing, the roadmap published publicly is a year out of date (Q1 2009). To get a sneak peak into the private roadmap you need Googles blessing.

8. Android trademark. Google holds the trademark to the Android name; as a manufacturer you can only leverage on the Android branding with approval from Google, much like how you need Suns approval to claim your handset is Java-powered.
post #107 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Just because you don't know how to do in outside of Flash, doesn't make it unfeasible in another development environment.

Didn't say that it couldn't be done. I said it's not feasible. A whole new environment would have to be written. One does not exist for your precious objective-c. The environment would have to catch up to the tweening and filter capabilities with Flash. Believe me, if someone wrote such an environment, it could make a killing.

Oh wait. Somebody already did. But Apple wants nothing to do with it. Sorry Apple users... you can't benefit. Maybe when your two year contract is up, you should switch to Android. Then you can play in the shinier, funner playground. Until then. Good luck on getting your app approved in the app store. Rejected? Sorry to hear that.
post #108 of 282
Ahhh... Adobe, how soon ye forgets it's past. Back in 1999/2000 Adobe tried to compete with Flash when it was owned by Macromedia. They even sued Macromedia over Flash's layout and tools. Adobe competed tooth and nail with Macromedia and lost on every front, with Flash and Dreamweaver vs. Adobe GoLive (remember that junk?) and Adobe Photoshop started losing ground to Macromedia Fireworks - especially with the web designer crowd. Now that Adobe has a MONOPOLY they want to play the victim "woe is me" role and try to make Apple look like the big bad evil guys.

It's funny (to me) I use Adobe products, but all the ones I use are the formerly Macromedia created / owned ones (Dreamweaver, Flash, Fireworks). I don't use the Adobe programs like Photoshop or Illustrator much anymore if at all.

Now they finally are up against a company that won't cower and crawl at mere sight of Adobe, a company they can't bully that has the resources, fans, users, money, lawyers, and power to fight them - Apple. Now, Adobe wants the public's sympathy. Go suck it Adobe, bunch of hypocrites. Go Apple, Go HTML5, and Go Open Source (like HTML5).
post #109 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Hell on a PC your choices are extremely limited.

When Adobe conquered Macromedia's Xres and Live Picture it pretty much chilled the market for high end photo creation/manipulation tools.

The only think we have now are smaller apps that can do a subset of Photoshop for a much better price.

Well, there is Corel... sort of...
post #110 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Good
Those developers who are not focused on their craft and a bit renegade need to look elsewhere for a platform. Funny how many "potential" developers suddenly think they're the Gordon Gekko of mobile application development. Newsflash there are almost 200k apps on the app store. The mountain doesn't come to Mohammed.

You know, the app store pretty much sucks IMO, and the reason is, there are too many apps, and most of them are not high quality. There are many thin wrappers around internet content, or other free content. There are many similarly named apps without good ways of distinguishing between them. How can you find anything? How do you know which is best?

Also, you can't try before you buy. I've bought many apps only to realize it doesn't do what I want. Is it worth going through the hassle of trying to get a refund for $2, no, but I'm left feeling burned. I see all these apps advertised in Apple ads, but I would never know they existed otherwise. I don't have hours to spend sifting through all these apps. Its a big mess.

And then, there's Apple's dumb rules that restrict what app developers can do. For example, I'd like an app that can stream media over m WiFi in my house so I don't need to sync it through iTunes. As far as I can tell, there are no apps that let you do this very basic function, and probably because Apple wants iTunes to be the alpha and omega of your media life.

And BTW, I'm focused on my craft, so up yours buddy.
post #111 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Your post is amazingly devoid of outstanding options in software. Pray tell what Photoshop competitors should I be looking for on a PC.

As always the PC market will have more software but a large portion of said software will be utter crap and would not cut muster in the Mac market where even shadetree developers are expected to deliver functional products in performance and UI.

Paint Shop Pro is great. ACDsee pro is great too. PhotoStudio is another fine example that is very similar to Photoshop in many ways.
post #112 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Well, there is Corel... sort of...

Yup, and you can get Corel for Mac also (not that I recommend it).
If you can live with X11, Gimp is free, and quite capable.
post #113 of 282
I have seen the power of html5 and i have developed alot of things on flash and have deployed flash 10.1 RC2 on my computer now.

as far as looking at a html5 vs flash standpoint, the cpu usage is about the same between them now, just have a long at this html5 demo: http://9elements.com/io/projects/html5/canvas/ .
the things is that flash is very cross-browser friendly, but html5 is still new. but when browsers like firefox are not upgrading to h264 codecs, it could become difficfult.

the way I see it, many web developers could enhance their websites using both html5 and flash together. but of course this wouldnt work if you were devloping for the iphone os. the only benifitial things i see about html5 now is that you dont need an extra plugin like flash. but thats about it.
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post #114 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzExige View Post

Hehe psychology, have a persecution complex?
Or maybe something to prove?

hehe

I like to understand people and personality. Thanks for your insight.
post #115 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by blullama View Post

Jailbroken means that you remove the lock on the wireless carrier that the phone is locked down to. In Apple's case, that's AT&T.

Wrong again. That is called an "unlock". Jailbreaking and unlocking are not the same thing. I'd go through the rest of your post but I'm typing on an iPhone and don't have all day for this.
post #116 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

Android has a walled garden, but it's just a bigger playground than Apple's. Maybe you and I have different meanings for what is "open". Am I mistaken in that you need some kind of Google ID to use most, if not all, Android phones? How are they a walled garden? Well [...]

Not to mention that the whole purpose of Android is to allow Google to collect personally identifiable information on users.
post #117 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

We may both be right. Most people who buy computers don't need/use all the capabilities that it has. They just want to do email and look at stuff (web pages, facebook, pictures, and movies. Apple has created a new class of device for that. Okay, call it a computer colloquially if you want, but they are doing very little computation. By your definition maybe even the iPhone is a computer. And that's okay, but it stretches the term computer too far. We need new words that make descriptive distinctions between all the computer-like devices out there now.

For those who produce (as opposed to consume) things, a computer that can easily create content is essential. Ask anyone who has tried to build a Keynote presentation from scratch on an iPad. Very difficult. Same thing with editing media. Heck, even sharing a document and printing are not not easy.

I will get an iPad (probably v2). And it will take the place of my iPhone for some things, and my laptop for others. But not everything for both. It's not a computer, it's a tablet or slate.

I get the distinction you were making and I somewhat agree. It just sounded like you were taking the idea of the iPad being only for media consumption a bit too far. Ironically, I think I probably have a bit of a problem with that characterisation because it's kind of true at the moment.

My disappointment with the iPad (even though I will get one anyway), is exactly that it's (so far) pretty poor for creating things. All I expected/hoped for before it was introduced was that I could write and possibly do a bit of drawing on it, and I was really disappointed that this is not really possible yet. It's technically possible, but only in the same vein as cruising the web was on a Pocket PC in 1995. It works, but it isn't really useable.

However, it's a new platform and I think over time, the iPad will become capable of taking over a large part of content creation even though we will still need desktops for the more complex creation tasks. I think the iPad could easily displace the laptop though as most people with laptops are not really into content creation in a big way and they mostly buy the laptop for it's portable characteristics.

The thing you said that I really agree with is the idea that the words we have right now are inadequate. iPads are not "real" computers in that they aren't desktops and have extremely limited content creation possibilities, but they are still computers of some kind. As I said, I'm buying the current one anyway, but in reality, I'm thinking the iPad I really want (one that you can write on etc.), won't be available until about 2013 or so.
post #118 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by blullama View Post

Wow! How hostile you people are. If only you really new what Adobe was really offering and how superior it's development environment is to Apple's. You know it doesn't just do advertisements and games.

I don't think that the question is if Flash is a useful tool. The question is will Adobe be able to update it immediately to support new APIs for iPhone.

By the way, i've seen some pretty amazing and interactive HTML5 lately.
post #119 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post

You know, the app store pretty much sucks IMO, and the reason is, there are too many apps, and most of them are not high quality. There are many thin wrappers around internet content, or other free content. There are many similarly named apps without good ways of distinguishing between them. How can you find anything? How do you know which is best?

Also, you can't try before you buy. I've bought many apps only to realize it doesn't do what I want. Is it worth going through the hassle of trying to get a refund for $2, no, but I'm left feeling burned. I see all these apps advertised in Apple ads, but I would never know they existed otherwise. I don't have hours to spend sifting through all these apps. Its a big mess.

And then, there's Apple's dumb rules that restrict what app developers can do. For example, I'd like an app that can stream media over m WiFi in my house so I don't need to sync it through iTunes. As far as I can tell, there are no apps that let you do this very basic function, and probably because Apple wants iTunes to be the alpha and omega of your media life.

And BTW, I'm focused on my craft, so up yours buddy.

I totally agree on the "try before you buy" Lite versions help but are not always offered. I think the whole 80/20 rule here applies (groan) 80 % of any store is going to be blah. I'm always looking for that cream. The top 20% that are worth the money.

I'd also like having an App Store Marketplace. Say I buy Omnifocus and find that it's just not working for me. I'd love to be able to transfer my license via iTunes to another user for store credit. We're talking about digital data here which almost by definition is portable. I don't think users should have to pour money into apps that become essentially worthless because there's no way to transfer them without exposing your Apple ID and Password.

There are many many many improvements that need to happen to online stores sooner rather than later. We are simply not leveraging digital data in a manner that's beneficial for developers and end users IMO.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
Reply
post #120 of 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

You are the rare case. The only reason Android has been successful so far is because the Droid is the only decent touchscreen device available for Verizon. The Nexus one, and others, have been flops in terms of sales.

I don't think it's a question of a walled-garden. Android has their own walled-garden forcing users to use their products. To get many of the apps on the Android store your device still needs to be rooted (jailbroken). From what I see now, and the foreseeable future, the App Store will continue to offer better apps. Android may be "more open" but what is it worth if the apps are of a lesser quality?

Application quality is relative. Even with smaller number available, you might find something for Android that does not exist on iPhone.

As example, I'm still missing Handy Shopper I used to run on Palm. I couldn't find equally versatile shopping list app for iPhone. Likewise, Documents To Go on Palm were better than iPhone's part.
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