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New Towers or a Memorial?

post #1 of 49
Thread Starter 
ABC News showed some of the ideas...some interesting and some totally idiotic. One was a tall building made of glass (???) with a spiral staircase (stupid). Another was two new towers with inside an 11 (911?) foot reflecting pool memorial (one good idea).

Some of the victim's families and loved ones want nothing but a memorial. No buildings at all. Reason being is that many have nothing...no urns, gravesites or headstones. They believe Ground Zero is holy ground and should stay that way.

What are other opinions here? I think that there should be a memorial but believe that rebuilding offices, homes and other buildings should be done too.
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post #2 of 49
I hate reflecting pools. Over done, everything has to be a freaking reflecting pool these days.

IMO it should be an office building of the most use. Towers, not towers what ever. Then a public plaza as a memorial. The kind of place where people would eat lunch everyday. It should be a real part of the city not some stand offish untouchable memorial deal.
post #3 of 49
BOTH. To do either a reconstruction of the Towers or a Memorial (without the other) would be really dumb IMO. They should rebuild the towers -- 100 stories each as far as I'm concerned -- more breath-taking than ever...and at their base should be a small park which includes a memorial of some kind.
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post #4 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs ™:
<strong>BOTH. To do either a reconstruction of the Towers or a Memorial (without the other) would be really dumb IMO. They should rebuild the towers -- 100 stories each as far as I'm concerned -- more breath-taking than ever...and at their base should be a small park which includes a memorial of some kind.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Wonderful idea.

I'll bet anyone $100 that there WILL be office space in the area no matter what. No one is going to give up all that space and not make money off of it. Sad but true.

Office space in NY is just too "valueable" to build a memorial alone.

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post #5 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by Moogs :
<strong>BOTH. To do either a reconstruction of the Towers or a Memorial (without the other) would be really dumb IMO. They should rebuild the towers -- 100 stories each as far as I'm concerned -- more breath-taking than ever...and at their base should be a small park which includes a memorial of some kind.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Great idea.
post #6 of 49
it's a tough situation. and the families of the victims aren't helping. I hate to say it and I hope you don't take it the wrong way but the families have been a little outrageous with their demands. it's either their way or nothing.


IMO, 2 state of the art towers should be built, maybe try to make them the biggest, but that's not as likely. 1 story greater than the old would be good. build them in the 2 corners of the square complex that the original towers were not in and make the 2 other corners where the towers were a memorial.
post #7 of 49
HEY! That's my idea that I posted some months back!
post #8 of 49
Personally, I think that it should remain a memorial and/or park. Sadly, however, it will likely just be turned into more office buildings. The land it too valuable for it too be left empty...
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post #9 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>HEY! That's my idea that I posted some months back!</strong><hr></blockquote>

sorry, didn't know that. great minds think alike


I'm sure we're not the only ones who have that thought though [quote]Personally, I think that it should remain a memorial and/or park. Sadly, however, it will likely just be turned into more office buildings. The land it too valuable for it too be left empty... <hr></blockquote>

and what good would having a 16 acre piece of grass in downtown manhatten do?

I think that would be the worst memorial
post #10 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by RyanTheGreat:
<strong>Personally, I think that it should remain a memorial and/or park. Sadly, however, it will likely just be turned into more office buildings. The land it too valuable for it too be left empty... </strong><hr></blockquote>

What good would a park do in the financial district?
post #11 of 49
It's time to take back the throne. I'd be in favor of building the world's tallest on that site. No memorial crap. That stuff can be shown in a small museum in the basement. The best memorial we could build would be another skyscraper in place of the old.
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post #12 of 49
I agree with Applenut...and Scott.

I'd like to see the towers built as high as safety and technology allows, to bring back the tallest building in the world title to the US again, if for not other reason.

At the base of the towers, erect a small stone plaque, perhaps with a statue of a Fireman, or soldier, or just a normal office worker. On the plaque, engrave something along the lines of:

On September 11, 2001, three thousand Americans died here by the doings of terrorism. They will be remembered forever.
*Registered March 1, 1999*
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post #13 of 49
They don't do high towers anymore. They were all the rage but it's too hard to get people up and down. You have to devote major space just the elevators.
post #14 of 49
[quote]They don't do high towers anymore. They were all the rage but it's too hard to get people up and down. You have to devote major space just the elevators.
<hr></blockquote>

Boo! They're so cool. Come on, 120 stories isn't asking much.
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post #15 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>They don't do high towers anymore. They were all the rage but it's too hard to get people up and down. You have to devote major space just the elevators.</strong><hr></blockquote>

you bring up a good point but the wrong reason. elevator problems aren't that big. there is actually a new technology using magnets that will allow elevators to actually change lanes and go at varying speeds and the computers that controlled them would be smart enough to make wait times almost nonexistant. its a few years away but so is building a new world trade center.

the big problem IMO would be renting space. I don't know how many would be willing to work on the top floors after this. Maybe I'm completely off but I think many would fear it
post #16 of 49
Yea I've seen that idea. Never seen a working system. In theory you would have some shafts as "up" only with maybe ten cars in there at a time. Then some others as "down" only. People are working on it but I don't know how far along they are.
post #17 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>Yea I've seen that idea. Never seen a working system. In theory you would have some shafts as "up" only with maybe ten cars in there at a time. Then some others as "down" only. People are working on it but I don't know how far along they are.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think the chinese have a small (working?) model for testing for the planning of the millenium tower. which btw is gonna be onee big ass tower if they ever do go through with it. I don't think its possible to build. It would use up so much resources
post #18 of 49
Rebuild the towers. Make them exactly the same (or better).
post #19 of 49
i think there should be a 160 story tall tower made only of stainless steel

not unlike the ifle tower yet looking like joined twins as it rose.

it would be called :

"ode to peace" or "ray of hope"

inside would completely open.

on the ground floor beneath it there would be a great lawn with a few walkways and few places to sit but not too many.


surrounding the tower would be 7 , 45 story tall office buildings.

the 7 office buildings would surround in such a way as to block out all city noise from the inner circle and great lawn from whence the structure rose.

it would be a quiet and peaceful sanctuary inside the city.

if you'd ever sat in the courtyard between the 2 trade centers you know the tranquil vibe that eminated from that place. it would recreate that, in a sense, while casting an eye toward the future and the great promise of human potential.

k
post #20 of 49
I don't think it should be over done. As I predicted before the process is going to be a total mess. The Fire and Police Departments are going to want center stage. Watch for heavy union influence. People who lost regular folks are going to be pushed aside. Look for "WTC memorial brought to you by North West Bell" It's going to be a total mess.
post #21 of 49
you need news buildings and a memorial.

The news buildings will have to be stronger and not only make into metals, you know steel is not good to resist to fire, because it bend and then it collapse.

The buildings should be different from a twin towers, the towers are gone, nothing could replace them. It would be not respectfull for the victims to make replica or it, it would mean that everything will be like it was before 9/11. Unfortunately, if live has to continue, things will be never like it was before 9/11 especially at New York.

The memorial has to be in ground zero, but he can be incorporate in the new buildings to symbolize the victims burren under millions of tons of steel and rock.
post #22 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>
the big problem IMO would be renting space. I don't know how many would be willing to work on the top floors after this. Maybe I'm completely off but I think many would fear it</strong><hr></blockquote>

You're not off. They would have a hard time giving away the space. And if someone did rent it, they'd have a world of trouble recruiting people to work there. The original towers were an economic white elephant for almost 30 years. They only just started to show a profit these last few years. I don't know how anything they build, if they build on the same scale, could ever turn a profit. That said, I still would like them to rebuild one tower only. It doesn't have to be the world's tallest but it should be as tall as the original towers were. Give it visual elements of the original buildings, perhaps in the use of materials and the spacing of the mullions, whatever.

Building one tower only would convey both a sense of overcoming and an acknowledgement of what was lost. It's too bad they had to tear down those segments of the curtain wall that were still standing after the collapse. Maybe they could also create a memorial that sculpturally evoked those ruins. Also, I think the sculpture would need to look as though it was covered in white ash. And the names of the victims could be etched, running in long lines up the "walls" of the sculpture.

[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
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post #23 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
<strong>

You're not off. They would have a hard time giving away the space. And if someone did rent it, they'd have a world of trouble recruiting people to work there. The original towers were an economic white elephant for almost 30 years. They only just started to show a profit these last few years. I don't know how anything they build, if they build on the same scale, could ever turn a profit. That said, I still would like them to rebuild one tower only. It doesn't have to be the world's tallest but it should be as tall as the original towers were. Give it visual elements of the original buildings, perhaps in the use of materials and the spacing of the mullions, whatever.

Building one tower only would convey both a sense of overcoming and an acknowledgement of what was lost. It's too bad they had to tear down those segments of the curtain wall that were still standing after the collapse. Maybe they could also create a memorial that sculpturally evoked those ruins. Also, I think the sculpture would need to look as though it was covered in white ash. And the names of the victims could be etched, running in long lines up the "walls" of the sculpture.

[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Making one great tower is a good idear, perhaps it can be surronded by some less high buildings, why not a circular building around it ?

There should be two memorials instead of one, a memorial for the dead people working in the twins at the level of ground zero and an another one on the top of the tower for the dead peoples who where in the planes (at the exception of the terrorist of course).

Anyway the memorial, have to be in a special place where everybody should go , but in a isolated and a dissumulated aera, where people working in the new buildings are not oblige to pass in front of the monument when they go to work. It will be to scary to work in a tower, if everyday of your life something remind you that you can be killed there.
post #24 of 49
Thread Starter 
Lots of good ideas here. I think there should be two towers again. Not as tall as the originals and with stronger, advanced security measures. There should be a prominent memorial too.

I think the fear of working in tall buildings is real...but hell, I don't hear any workers in other cities resigning to work in lower ones. Maybe in NYC right now, but in all things..it will subside.

Also, there will be a lot of bickering over whatever project (remember the firemen statue?). Everyone from City Councils, Real Estates, Victims, Corporations, Government, Unions, Firemen and Police...on and on. Plus NYC has their new "I'm away for the weekend" Mayor...

At the Pentagon, contruction is way ahead of schedule (supposed to be completed by Sept. 11 2002). They have a small hallway memorial within the area the plane had hit. Pretty fast work if you ask me. But of course it all went through military channels.

Let's hope in NYC they'll work out our differences and get things going in the right direction.
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post #25 of 49
Personally, I think the two new towers I spoke of earlier should be precisely one story shorter than the Sears Tower - that is, if 100 stories each isn't good enough.



By the way, glad to see some of you concur with my idea. I think there are two distinct parts to rebuilding and getting things back the way they should be. The emotional part and the show of strength / financial part. The park and memorial speak to the former, the two new towers speak to the latter. You need both to solve the problem of what should be done with the empty space.

It's not surprising either, that the victims' families are being bull-headed. It's hard to grieve and be reasonable at the same time...really hard. But in time many of them will come around. Don't forget too the majority of these people were from New York. New Yorkers are not exactly the easiest people to convince / get along with at times - they're bull-headed from the start.

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post #26 of 49
<a href="http://home.no.net/toretors/bilder/New%20World%20Trade%20Center_s.jpg" target="_blank">Press here</a>

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
post #27 of 49
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by eXistenZ:
<strong><a href="http://home.no.net/toretors/bilder/New%20World%20Trade%20Center_s.jpg" target="_blank">Press here</a> <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Even though that is satire...it's sickening. Thanks Norway for your idiotic contribution.
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post #28 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by eXistenZ:
<strong><a href="http://home.no.net/toretors/bilder/New%20World%20Trade%20Center_s.jpg" target="_blank">Press here</a>

<img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't find that funny at all.
post #29 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
It's too bad they had to tear down those segments of the curtain wall that were still standing after the collapse. Maybe they could also create a memorial that sculpturally evoked those ruins.<hr></blockquote>

I understand that these pieces have been saved...out at Fresh Kills where they spread the wreckage out to look one more time, they're saving pieces for a memorial. It's not clear that the wrecked facade which survived will be used, but I understand it's still an option.
post #30 of 49
I'm not into saving everything and turning it into a memorial. But then I have this idea. Take what's left of the structure and cut it up. Send parts if it to any city that wants to put it on display. Boston, Phily, Wash DC Chicago, SF, Detriot ....

I don't know why I think this would be good <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
post #31 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
I'm not into saving everything and turning it into a memorial. But then I have this idea. Take what's left of the structure and cut it up. Send parts if it to any city that wants to put it on display. Boston, Phily, Wash DC Chicago, SF, Detriot ....

I don't know why I think this would be good :confused: <hr></blockquote>

I dunno, something about this seems like it could be a good idea. The trick would be to not make it into a freaky circus thing.
post #32 of 49
I like the pillars of light thing they are doing now, clean it up, make it a park and keep the lights.
post #33 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by Timo:
<strong>

I dunno, something about this seems like it could be a good idea. The trick would be to not make it into a freaky circus thing.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yea. Chicago has a lot of public art that's just "there". They have room from a bit of the external structure somewhere in the city. Maybe kind of a reminder of how lucky we were not to get hit and that another city did. ...

I hate overdone though.
post #34 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by Timo:
<strong>
I understand that these pieces have been saved...out at Fresh Kills where they spread the wreckage out to look one more time, they're saving pieces for a memorial. It's not clear that the wrecked facade which survived will be used, but I understand it's still an option.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good. In the "plan" I'm thinking about the ruins would occupy the space of the unbuilt tower.
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post #35 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by HHogan:
<strong>I like the pillars of light thing they are doing now, clean it up, make it a park and keep the lights.</strong><hr></blockquote>

1.) apparantly it could potentiall cause bird migration problems if left on for good
2.) it costs a hell of a lot of money everyday to produce
3.) It's not really that impressive unless you're in manhatten or right near it. The original plans called for much brighter beams that would be viewable from most of the 5 bouroughs where there was a direct line of view. unfortunately they toned it down and I can't even see it from my house. I just see a very faint glow above the whitestone bridge
post #36 of 49
A little off topic, but thought I'd mention it. I take the subway to work everyday and the station I use is a big starting off point for tourists. It's in the B'way, Times Square area. Anyway, in the token booth there's a sign that says "Welcome to NYC, for Ground Zero take the N or the R to Rector St. etc."

I'm sure the sign is up there because the poor token clerk has been deluged by tourists asking for directions. I just find it a little strange how many people are making it a big part of their trip here to go down there. I dunno, I kind of understand the people who were either directly or peripherally affected by it, but seeing a subway car full of giddy high schoolers on their class trip going sits kind of funny.
post #37 of 49
This talk about building the tallest office building in the word brings up another point. The Petronas Towers are the two tallest office buildings in the world, but there's a catch...

They very last floor of the Petronas Tower is actually shorter than the Sears Tower's last floor, and was shorter than the WTC's last floor. The only reason why the Petronas Towers are listed as taller is a technicality involving what constitutes part of the building and what doesn't.

The two radio antennae on the the Sears Tower do not count. The radio antenna that was on the One World Trade Center also did not count. The 'spires' on the Petronas Tower do count...they are ornamental...and not antennae...
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post #38 of 49
[quote]Originally posted by Eugene:
<strong>This talk about building the tallest office building in the word brings up another point. The Petronas Towers are the two tallest office buildings in the world, but there's a catch...

They very last floor of the Petronas Tower is actually shorter than the Sears Tower's last floor, and was shorter than the WTC's last floor. The only reason why the Petronas Towers are listed as taller is a technicality involving what constitutes part of the building and what doesn't.

The two radio antennae on the the Sears Tower do not count. The radio antenna that was on the One World Trade Center also did not count. The 'spires' on the Petronas Tower do count...they are ornamental...and not antennae...</strong><hr></blockquote>

yes I've heard of this before. I still think the best way to build tall is to be honest. Just build a tall building with no ornamental spires or anything. It just says "**** you and your stupid ornaments." New York is supposed to be all about business, not ornaments.
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post #39 of 49
Don't get me started on those pussy Petronas Towers.
post #40 of 49
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:
<strong>Don't get me started on those pussy Petronas Towers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, lets not Pussy + Towers = Sexual Content?

...next?
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