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Arizona = Arian Zone

post #1 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:05am
Thread Starter 
Arizona Republicans have decided to take a page from Adolf Hitler's playbook and allow their police to use dubious markers to identify illegal immigrants. Polls show that 70% of the population wants this law.
The sponsor of the bill is a Republican Neo Nazi sympathizer and proudly poses for pics with known Arizona White Supremacy members sporting swastikas attached to US flags.
I love this. What's not to love about the Nazis?

How do you feel about it?

Should we pass similar laws for all states?

Why do Republicans all of a sudden love to expand government for the purpose of intruding into everyone's privacy?

CA Republican notes that immigrants can be identified by their clothes and shoes, he is truly presidential material.
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post #2 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Arizona Republicans have decided to take a page from Adolf Hitler's playbook and allow their police to use dubious markers to identify illegal immigrants. Polls show that 70% of the population wants this law.
The sponsor of the bill is a Republican Neo Nazi sympathizer and proudly poses for pics with known Arizona White Supremacy members sporting swastikas attached to US flags.
I love this. What's not to love about the Nazis?

How do you feel about it?

Should we pass similar laws for all states?

Why do Republicans all of a sudden love to expand government for the purpose of intruding into everyone's privacy?

CA Republican notes that immigrants can be identified by their clothes and shoes, he is truly presidential material.

Since you do not live in Arizona, you apparently have limited perspective on why they want this done. However, being an American citizen that believes that the US constitution and the standards it upholds should be taken seriously, I think it is refreshing to see someone actually taking the time the enforce our immigration laws. Racist, I know...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #3 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:18am
Illegal is not a race.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #4 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:20am
Some politician from Arizona said he could ID illegals by their clothes.


Oops. Just saw that was in the OP. Worth repeating, though as it is a good laugh.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #5 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Some politician from Arizona said he could ID illegals by their clothes.

Link?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #6 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:22am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Illegal is not a race.

You are aware that this applies to everyone. A Driver's License will not be enough to identify yourself as US citizen. Not even a social security card. This means if you do not carry a passport or a birth certificate you may be detained until you can produce evidence of your citizenship or legal immigration status. In reality it will hurt US citizens more than immigrants. A green card is no bigger than a driver's license how ever a passport or your birth certificate is not as easy to carry around.
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post #7 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:25am
All this bill does is give the state of Arizona more authority to enforce existing immigration laws that the federal government refuses to enforce.

If the federal government had done its duty, we would not be having this discussion and this bill would not be necessary.

As an Arizonan, I wholeheartedly support this bill. 70% of my fellow Arizonans agree with me. The support for this bill is bipartisan.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #8 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

You are aware that this applies to everyone. A Driver's License will not be enough to identify yourself as US citizen. Not even a social security card. This means if you do not carry a passport or a birth certificate you may be detained until you can produce evidence of your citizenship or legal immigration status. In reality it will hurt US citizens more than immigrants. A green card is no bigger than a driver's license how ever a passport or your birth certificate is not as easy to carry around.

Have you read the bill?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #9 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Link?

Brian Bilbray
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post #10 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:32am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Have you read the bill?

No I am unable to locate it. But I would appreciate a link to it.

However as an employer of immigrants and US born Latinos I know how people have to document their legal status by showing an H1 or a green card which I can verify. I assumed it is the same for Arizona.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #11 of 374
4/23/10 at 8:39am
Thread Starter 
Oh this is good
Looks like it's going to be very expensive for you, Jazzy.

Oh I forgot when it comes to purging people you don't like tax money is no object.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #12 of 374
4/23/10 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Oh this is good
Looks like it's going to be very expensive for you, Jazzy.

Oh I forgot when it comes to purging people you don't like tax money is no object.

Anyone else get tired of reading speculative news pieces with no sources and no information?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #13 of 374
4/23/10 at 9:54am
Just out of curiosity, when someone uses the phrase "kill the bill" are they suggesting the use of violence to achieve their goals?

Are the same people who are opposed to the heavy hand of government in this case also opposed to the heavy hand of government in other cases too?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #14 of 374
4/23/10 at 10:20am
Well, Barack Obama has chimed in because, well, he can't not:

Some of the more humorous and frightening statements:

Quote:
"Our failure to act responsible at the federal level will only open the door to irresponsibility by others. That includes, for example, the recent efforts in Arizona, which threaten to undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans, as well as the trust between police and their communities that is so crucial to keeping us safe,"

Quote:
"In fact, I've instructed members of my administration to closely monitor the situation and examine the civil rights and other implications of this legislation. But if we continue to fail to act at the federal level, we will continue to see misguided efforts opening up around the country."

That statement alone tells me more than I really wanted to know about Barack Obama.

\

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #15 of 374
4/23/10 at 10:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Anyone else get tired of reading speculative news pieces with no sources and no information?

I am totally tired of it!!!

No sources, no information?
San Francisco Chronicle speculative?
Source former police chief = no source?
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post #16 of 374
4/23/10 at 10:53am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


Are the same people who are opposed to the heavy hand of government in this case also opposed to the heavy hand of government in other cases too?

Are you?
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post #17 of 374
4/23/10 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Are you?

I believe so, yes. Are you?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #18 of 374
4/23/10 at 11:01am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I believe so, yes. Are you?

If you define the "heavy hand of government" the one that can put handcuffs on me, yes.
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post #19 of 374
4/23/10 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

If you define the "heavy hand of government" the one that can put handcuffs on me, yes.

Do you define the "heavy hand of government" to be only when they actually put the handcuffs on you or does it include the the threat or promise to ultimately doing so if you fail to comply with what it says?

Are the handcuffs literal only or could that include other means of restriction before the handcuffs are pulled out?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #20 of 374
4/23/10 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

I am totally tired of it!!!

No sources, no information?
San Francisco Chronicle speculative?
Source former police chief = no source?

What does the police chief say?

What actual numbers are there?

Honestly, it is sad to watch these folks play you guys like fine violins.

Here is what he said...."will have a catastrophic effect on policing and set back community policing efforts for decades."

This is a pure example of hyperbole. It contains no real information. It is no different than me noting it has been "an eternity since we have sene each other."

The next part is even worse....

Quote:
Some cops are warning the law would impede their efforts to fight violent crime because witnesses and victims will be reluctant to come forward for fear of being arrested as an undocumented immigrant. Other officers say removing illegal immigrants from the streets will reduce crime.

Some say this... others say the opposite. No names of course and no numbers.

When I teach kids about this I declare that I don't want any paragraphs in which "We did things with stuff. It was good and I liked it." There is no information actually given.

The last part is a quote with spin on it that contains a straw man. Again there is no information and the bill and what it does could easily be quoted but that wouldn't allow the spin and opinion to sit in place of it.

Quote:
The bill "essentially legislates racial profiling, putting police in the middle of the train tracks to face an onslaught of civil-rights violations lawsuits," said former Sacramento Police Chief Arturo Venegas. "No other law in the country allows citizens to sue a government agency for not arresting enough people."

It isn't hard at all to quote the bill. That quote reads as follow... essentually, strawman says person who is in no form or manner associated with the bill nor has any experience in Arizona who then also lapses into a generalization... no other bill ever....nightmare state.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #21 of 374
4/23/10 at 1:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Do you define the "heavy hand of government" to be only when they actually put the handcuffs on you or does it include the the threat or promise to ultimately doing so if you fail to comply with what it says?

Are the handcuffs literal only or could that include other means of restriction before the handcuffs are pulled out?

Cucumbers are undercover bananas.
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post #22 of 374
4/23/10 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Cucumbers are undercover bananas.

And the sky is not really "blue".
eye
bee
BEE
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bee
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post #23 of 374
4/23/10 at 3:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Arizona Republicans have decided to take a page from Adolf Hitler's playbook and allow their police to use dubious markers to identify illegal immigrants. Polls show that 70% of the population wants this law.
The sponsor of the bill is a Republican Neo Nazi sympathizer and proudly poses for pics with known Arizona White Supremacy members sporting swastikas attached to US flags.
I love this. What's not to love about the Nazis?

How do you feel about it?

Should we pass similar laws for all states?

Why do Republicans all of a sudden love to expand government for the purpose of intruding into everyone's privacy?

CA Republican notes that immigrants can be identified by their clothes and shoes, he is truly presidential material.

Catholic Bishop Maloney agrees with me, OH NO!!!
Global Warming must have the opposite affect on hell, it has frozen over.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #24 of 374
4/23/10 at 3:27pm
I guess when no one takes the troll bait, you've got to quote yourself.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #25 of 374
4/23/10 at 3:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I guess when no one takes the troll bait, you've got to quote yourself.

Exactly.

However if a catholic bishop says a Republican Legistlation has "NAZI" undertones.


That's frigging big dude.

Quote:
LOS ANGELES — The head of the nation's largest Roman Catholic archdiocese has condemned a proposed Arizona crackdown on illegal immigrants, saying it encourages people to turn on each other in Nazi- and Soviet-style repression.

BTW it was the federal governments inaction which forced them to take matters in their own hands. Obama is just not NAZI enough. But we are all about states rights.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #26 of 374
4/23/10 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Exactly.

However if a catholic bishop says a Republican Legistlation has "NAZI" undertones.


That's frigging big dude.



BTW it was the federal governments inaction which forced them to take matters in their own hands. Obama is just not NAZI enough. But we are all about states rights.

Wait...wait...wait... I could have sworn that when people were willing to stoop to claiming Obama's health care had Nazi undertones, that is was a sign they were going to murder and bomb places and people in violent rampages.

Now... it's "friggin big dude." Also why does this reasoning strike me as 12 year old cool kid reasoning?

Also, would you care to explain to me why a Catholic Bishop is an expert is law enforcement, borders, governing, Nazis, or pretty much anything outside of Catholicism?

I'm really looking for a reason to by into the hyperbole so help me out will ya? I mean if a Catholic Priest in California is going to declare that a law signed by a governor in Arizona reminds one of a German leader from 70 years ago, I need at least a few lines drawn for me.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #27 of 374
4/23/10 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Cucumbers are undercover bananas.

What adults do...if they don't wish to answer the question...they simply say something like: "I don't wish to answer the question." Or, if they don't wish to engage in reasoned discussion, they simply say: "I don't wish to have a reasoned discussion." But, alas, you have found a more succinct way to say that. For that you I give you credit.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #28 of 374
4/23/10 at 5:42pm
iran is farsi for aryan, gee who else thought of themselves this way??

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_...Farsi_language
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #29 of 374
4/23/10 at 6:16pm
The sooner they're legalized and vote Democratic, the better. It's that simple.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #30 of 374
4/24/10 at 12:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

iran is farsi for aryan, gee who else thought of themselves this way??

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_...Farsi_language

A little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing.

'Aryan' is the original name of the Indo-European people who populated the area encompassing India, Afghanistan and Iran from 2000 BC onwards - the names of these countries are all a derivation of the word.

So they don't actually 'think of themselves that way' but actually ARE that way.

A far more interesting - and ironic - issue is why the Nazis actually chose the name of a racial group they despised to signify their proposed master race.

But carry on....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #31 of 374
4/24/10 at 8:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Anyone else get tired of reading speculative news pieces with no sources and no information?

Do you mean like the notion by SDW ( and the Republicans ) that the SEC and Obama are in bed on the financial reform bill?

I'm surprised you didn't get after him for that. That one was pure speculation with no source. PPD.

Fair's fair.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #32 of 374
4/24/10 at 2:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I need at least a few lines drawn for me.

Here you go, you finally found your problem.
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post #33 of 374
4/24/10 at 4:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Do you mean like the notion by SDW ( and the Republicans ) that the SEC and Obama are in bed on the financial reform bill?

I'm surprised you didn't get after him for that. That one was pure speculation with no source. PPD.

Fair's fair.

Actually you need to adjust your comprehension. In case you hadn't noticed, SDW is not a news broadcaster. He, just like you or I, are allowed to speculate on here as much as we want. I simply complained about how much of the news sucks in terms of not delivering content.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #34 of 374
4/24/10 at 5:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Actually you need to adjust your comprehension. In case you hadn't noticed, SDW is not a news broadcaster. He, just like you or I, are allowed to speculate on here as much as we want. I simply complained about how much of the news sucks in terms of not delivering content.

It's the same idea. You're just trying to side step this. SDW isn't delivering content either.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #35 of 374
4/24/10 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It's the same idea. You're just trying to side step this. SDW isn't delivering content either.

It still doesn't matter. I can ignore SDW. SDW is not cluttering up the licensed airwaves. People are turning off the news because it doesn't deliver the news. If you want to turn of SDW, feel free to do so.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #36 of 374
4/24/10 at 6:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It still doesn't matter. I can ignore SDW. SDW is not cluttering up the licensed airwaves. People are turning off the news because it doesn't deliver the news. If you want to turn of SDW, feel free to do so.

People are turning off news that mentions the anger by the right. It's disgusting. All of the made up shit and excuses. Just because they lost the last election and there's a Democrat in the Whitehouse who's dangerous because he can get things done. They just can't stand that and it sticks in their collective craw.

You can turn off either trumpy. This is just an excuse. What's wrong with people here sighting outsiders speculating? It's the same thing as anyone speculating here. Your agreement with the subject is not a requirement.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #37 of 374
4/24/10 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Just because they lost the last election and there's a Democrat in the Whitehouse who's dangerous because he can get things done. They just can't stand that and it sticks in their collective craw.

It mazes how frequently you reveal your narrow and superficial comprehension of the circumstances. For you the only criticism of Barack Obama and the Democrats is a result of sour grapes. You seem to lack any ability or willingness to entertain the possibility that it has nothing or little to do with losing an election or, even if it did, that there might not be other perfectly valid reasons for being opposed to Barack Obama and the Democrats and the policies they are trying to implement. I view Barack Obama and the Democrats as dangerous not so much because they "can get things done" as much as because of the things they are trying to get done (as well as the things they aren't even trying to do.) I don't give a shit about the election. That is old news. I'm dealing with the here and now (and thinking about the future as well.)

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #38 of 374
4/26/10 at 8:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

That statement alone tells me more than I really wanted to know about Barack Obama.

\

Quote:
Bloomberg said that the "bill signed into law today could have a chilling effect on international business travel, investment, and tourism in that state, as many people from around the world may think twice before visiting Arizona and subjecting themselves to potential run-ins with the police."

Maybe Obama just wants to save "Arian Zone" from self inflicted pain due to loss of tourism and business travel. The new law is anti business.

I can't wait to see what happens when 450,000 illegals in AZ decide to a) leave or b) organize and march on Phoenix. Both scenarios are going to make for some great new stories and the collapse of the AZ economy.
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post #39 of 374
4/26/10 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Maybe Obama just wants to save "Arian Zone" from self inflicted pain due to loss of tourism and business travel. The new law is anti business.

No, actually it is not. It is anti illegal immigration. But the mental leap was fun for a second...

Quote:
I can't wait to see what happens when 450,000 illegals in AZ decide to a) leave or b) organize and march on Phoenix. Both scenarios are going to make for some great new stories and the collapse of the AZ economy.

Thank you for showing where your heart is, wishing for the collapse of an entire state due to the fact that they do not share your view on how the immigration issue should be dealt with.

But, if they do march on Phoenix it will make it much easier to load them up and ship them back to their countries of origin. Like turning oneself in to the authorities...

Personally, I am interested to see whether this actually does have an effect on illegal immigration and if the problem simply moves to another state. If that is the case, it should be implemented there as well. If it does lead to problems the enforcement should be revised so that the laws are still enforced, but in such a way that the actual citizens and those there legally are not severely impacted.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #40 of 374
4/26/10 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Maybe Obama just wants to save "Arian Zone" from self inflicted pain due to loss of tourism and business travel. The new law is anti business.

I can't wait to see what happens when 450,000 illegals in AZ decide to a) leave or b) organize and march on Phoenix. Both scenarios are going to make for some great new stories and the collapse of the AZ economy.

I'm sure Mexico itself has enjoyed the increases in tourism brought about by the massive lawlessness and drug cartels.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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