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Arizona = Arian Zone - Page 7

post #241 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

and now Mexico is joining in on the lawsuit to declare Arizona's law unconstitutional....

The Arizona Law parallels Mexico's own law about treating aliens...besides who cares what Mexico thinks?
post #242 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quit pretending that you actually want to discuss the topic of any thread here. It makes you look even more foolish. If you wanted to talk about the topic, you would. You don't, so you don't. \

And right after I said that what are you doing by saying this?

Stay on topic.
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #243 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

The Arizona Law parallels Mexico's own law about treating aliens...besides who cares what Mexico thinks?

We should care about what all other countries think. We really can't afford to have such a parocial attitude in this day and age.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #244 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

We should care about what all other countries think. We really can't afford to have such a parocial attitude in this day and age.

Wrong. It is Mexico that is at fault here; their citizens at issue with this Arizona law. For Mexico to express an opinion on a law that Arizona citizens enacted to combat crime from Mexico's citizens is pompous at very least, the height of hypocrisy at any level. I urge you to investigate the harshness that Mexico itself applies on its own southern border and to its immigration, and those aliens it encounters and the Mexican federales that enforce it. For them to even question what Arizona does to control its border is beyond belief...
post #245 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Wrong. It is Mexico that is at fault here; their citizens at issue with this Arizona law. For Mexico to express an opinion on a law that Arizona citizens enacted to combat crime from Mexico's citizens is pompous at very least, the height of hypocrisy at any level. I urge you to investigate the harshness that Mexico itself applies on its own southern border and to its immigration, and those aliens it encounters and the Mexican federales that enforce it. For them to even question what Arizona does to control its border is beyond belief...

That's not really directly addressing the attitude you were expressing here.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #246 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Stay on topic.

Yes, dear.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #247 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

That's not really directly addressing the attitude you were expressing here.

Do you think how Mexico feels about this issue is in any way parallel to (in importance) how illegal immigration and its attendant crime affects Arizona citizens? Do let us know...
post #248 of 374
The government of Mexico stepping into the US legal fray is a little odd and it does seem rather presumptuous. It would also seem to be a bit impolitic, but I think it would be a fairly safe assumption they did it with the tacit, if not explicit approval of the Obama administration.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #249 of 374
Screw what you imagine his attitude to be Jimmac. This condescending bullshit is nonsense.

In Mexico they no only check your papers, they have the military check them at checkpoints at whenever they want and they are all in Hummers and carrying M16's while doing this. They don't bring along or summon an English translator if you have any trouble with the language. They pull over whoever they want for whatever reasoning they want.

My old Chevy pick-up gets stopped EVERY TIME. My friend who is a Mexican national teases me because clearly they are profiling me. She teases that no gringo would ever own a truck as old as mine (1991) and thus they think it must be full of drugs.

They do this at the border and they do it at a couple check points miles from the border. Mexico is given the right to be soverign on their own soil and protect their own people. The U.S. has the same right and if the federal government is forsaking their responsibility here, or holding it hostage to legislation as Sen. Kyl was told, then Arizona has the right to protect itself as well.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #250 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Screw what you imagine his attitude to be Jimmac. This condescending bullshit is nonsense.

In Mexico they no only check your papers, they have the military check them at checkpoints at whenever they want and they are all in Hummers and carrying M16's while doing this. They don't bring along or summon an English translator if you have any trouble with the language. They pull over whoever they want for whatever reasoning they want.

My old Chevy pick-up gets stopped EVERY TIME. My friend who is a Mexican national teases me because clearly they are profiling me. She teases that no gringo would ever own a truck as old as mine (1991) and thus they think it must be full of drugs.

They do this at the border and they do it at a couple check points miles from the border. Mexico is given the right to be soverign on their own soil and protect their own people. The U.S. has the same right and if the federal government is forsaking their responsibility here, or holding it hostage to legislation as Sen. Kyl was told, then Arizona has the right to protect itself as well.

Screw what you are trying to interpret here trumpy! The time for the US to be showing this attittude of " Who cares what other countries think " is over. We are a world power and if we want to stay that way we hve to work with those other countries.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #251 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Yes, dear.

That's a good little sweetie! By the way. What 's with all the personal endearments?

It seems like a subtle form of personal insult.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #252 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The time for the US to be showing this attittude of " Who cares what other countries think " is over.

Yes the Obama administration is clearly showing a more equitable and friendly attitude toward the sovereign countries of the world. Except when it isn't.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #253 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It seems like a subtle form of personal insult.

Yes, dear.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #254 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

We are a world power and if we want to stay that way we hve to work with those other countries.

What about the lives of U.S. citizens in Arizona, Texas, and New Mexico whose welfare and personal security are impacted here? Do they count anymore? Is "working with other countries" more important than the personal security of our citizens?
post #255 of 374

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #256 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Screw what you are trying to interpret here trumpy! The time for the US to be showing this attittude of " Who cares what other countries think " is over. We are a world power and if we want to stay that way we hve to work with those other countries.

If other countries think they ought to be sovereign on our soil instead of our own governments at various levels being sovereign then that is a thought we cannot accommodate and ought not do so regardless of claims about whoring ourselves out to be top dog.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

What about the lives of U.S. citizens in Arizona, Texas, and New Mexico whose welfare and personal security are impacted here? Do they count anymore? Is "working with other countries" more important than the personal security of our citizens?

Obviously they don't by that reasoning. If people need to die, have their property stolen or destroyed of if they don't desire to see their kids on drugs or their daughters raped, then that is just one of those lame past considerations that stand in the way of us being a world power by whoring out our land and citizens.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #257 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

trumpy when I was younger I got stopped by police that had no reason to stop me. I remember once an officer stopped me for a burnt out tailight. When he was behind me looking at it he forgot that my car was being reflected in the glossy paint on his. I said " Let me try it " and I was holding the brake down. The guy still claimed it wasn't working until I pointed out how I knew it was. He then said " There! Now I guess it's working. " He left right away after that.

This really happened in 1970's USA.



If you have a government ( even at the state level ) that operates this way I'm sure justice is difficult for the individual to come by.

The law has nothing to do with situations like that. It does nothing to encourage such situations. It doesn't make police racist or incompetent all of a sudden. Yes, abuse by law enforcement can happen and does happen. But it happens because of bad officers, the number of which does not increase because of the law.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #258 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by user23 View Post

Staying at my folks' home here in good old Mesa, AZ for a bit....Looks like Sheriff Joe (a blighter of a human if there ever was one) IS enforcing the law accordingly.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...TmXxAD9GA4CAO3

Seems that the initial investigation was for identity theft...

Quote:
The raids were part of a yearlong investigation into whether the operators of the two Sizzler locations broke a civil law by knowingly hiring illegal immigrants, Maricopa County Sheriff's Office Lt. Brian Lee said in a statement.

Apparently the law creates a time machine!
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post #259 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Screw what you are trying to interpret here trumpy! The time for the US to be showing this attittude of " Who cares what other countries think " is over. We are a world power and if we want to stay that way we hve to work with those other countries.

So...Mexico should have a say in US immigration law? But...we shouldn't have a say in, oh, Middle East politics--which directly affect our security?

Do explain.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #260 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

The Arizona Law parallels Mexico's own law about treating aliens...besides who cares what Mexico thinks?

Thank you for getting the point I was making, even if you did not see that i was making it. I care because the hypocrisy of what they are trying to accomplish is sickening. There is more at work here than simply looking to ease relations with our neighbors to the south. The question is, what is Mexico trying to accomplish?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #261 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So...Mexico should have a say in US immigration law? But...we shouldn't have a say in, oh, Middle East politics--which directly affect our security?

Do explain.

Here's my original statement :
Quote:
The time for the US to be showing this attittude of " Who cares what other countries think " is over. We are a world power and if we want to stay that way we hve to work with those other countries.

Tell me how yours directly relates to mine?

Do explain.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #262 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

An Economic Case for Immigration

For the record, I am conservative-libertarian, classical liberal, and Milton Friedman loving right-winger. However I am not an immigration enthusiast.

There are three kinds of legal (and illegal) immigration enthusiasts on the right.

The first are those who culturally identify with some group (e.g. the business community or latino's). They really don't care about the effects of immigration, or other groups, and are only concerned about their business or racial/tribal identity.

The second are neo-cons who recall their immigration roots (e.g. Jews and some Catholics of Weekly Standard) and romanticize its meaning to the American identity.

There is not a lot you can say to these types because they are not motivated by larger concerns and are often moved by mystical attachments.

The last type are the 'free market' libertarians - eg. CATO and Reason Mag. This kind of person ought to be reachable through evidence and reason (although they are often romantically inclined as well). Having idealized the market they mistakingly assume that immigration control is, therefore, contrary to our national well being.

They are very wrong. They confuse the well-being of a group of market participants WITH the well being of a subset of those participants. No doubt the well-being of immigrants and native borne is improved with unrestricted immigration (the whole) but the distribution of those gains and losses are such than many native borne lose while immigrants gain.

a) They do take jobs, particularly of the unskilled.
b) They do little for the economy of a per capita basis
c) They do depress wage rates in specific skill areas.
d) They do create externalities in crime, social services, pollution etc.

As the article points out Borjas is "the most established academic critic of immigration.", more accurately though he is the most distinguished of labor-immigration economists and the founder of econometric immigration studies. He opposes unrestricted immigration (as well as illegal immigration).

Until we have analysis that accounts for the distribution changes of income, as well as the major tax and externality effects from crime, pollution, and social expenditures then the tiny gains from immigration cannot be justified.

Finally, note that Borjas is not opposed to all immigration. Highly skilled and talented immigrants do create substantial surplus not fully recaptured by their wages. But then, the US immigration system is not merit based, and illegal immigration gets the least talented and skilled of immigrants.
post #263 of 374
Is this how Democrats take border security seriously?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...ntent=My+Yahoo

Border states should sue the federal government for not enforcing the borders like they are supposed to.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #264 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Is this how Democrats take border security seriously?

Rep. Stark frequently escapes his rubber room to issue a bit of insanity; hardly anyone takes him seriously... As soon as California realizes what illegals are costing them I expect Stark Raving Mad to be guest hosting Border Patrol II - Back In Business!
post #265 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

'Aryan' is the original name of the Indo-European people who populated the area encompassing India, Afghanistan and Iran from 2000 BC onwards - the names of these countries are all a derivation of the word.

OOT, but then, pfft. The AMT / AIT theories are a controversial subject to say the least. Here is a cut & paste from another post that contradicts this theory.

Quote:
The Aryan Invasion Theory (AIT) was a concoction of European colonial supremacists to prove their imagined racial superiority and to facilitate religious conversions. In the face of incontrovertible archaeological findings contrary to any invasion, the AIT has been morphed to the Aryan Migration Theory (AMT). Both the AIT and AMT are based on philology, conveniently theorized on speculation, without any scientific aegis, when the contrary could very well be true. On the other hand, archaeological and recent genetic evidence has actually discredited and debunked without any doubt both these supremacist and racist theories of any white skinned Aryan invasion or migration. To quote Dr. Arvind Sharma (McGill University), "this view (AMT) awaits confirmation by archeology especially because it has been challenged by the discovery of extensive sites in northwestern and western India". Cutting edge genetic research in recent years has without any doubt debunked the racist theory of any white skinned Aryan invasion or migration. For a list of genetic research that debunks the AIT and AMT readers may go to: http://bit.ly/cQD36U.

That link leads to a nature magazine article.
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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post #266 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Rep. Stark frequently escapes his rubber room to issue a bit of insanity; hardly anyone takes him seriously... As soon as California realizes what illegals are costing them I expect Stark Raving Mad to be guest hosting Border Patrol II - Back In Business!

The cost of illegals is just a drop in the bucket compared to the vast amount of waste in the military industrial complex. Also, I'd sure as hell hate to see what the prices of certain goods and services will be once illegals are driven out of the country.

god, guns, gays, and xenophobia. Anything to distract the people from the daily anal rape by our corporate overlords.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #267 of 374
I'm writing my manifesto against caricature and hyperbole based of BR's post from above.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #268 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I'm writing my manifesto against caricature and hyperbole based of BR's post from above.

______|
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___________________|
___________|
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Ahhh, this feels good.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #269 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

______|
___________|
___________________|
___________|
_________|

Ahhh, this feels good.

I suppose it depends on where you stuck it.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #270 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The cost of illegals is just a drop in the bucket compared to the vast amount of waste in the military industrial complex. Also, I'd sure as hell hate to see what the prices of certain goods and services will be once illegals are driven out of the country.

god, guns, gays, and xenophobia. Anything to distract the people from the daily anal rape by our corporate overlords.

So you wish to see those illegals continue to be exploited to keep the cost of said goods down by those "corporate overlords" you hate so much? Nice... \

No god, no guns, no boundaries, no rules...?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #271 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

... the vast amount of waste in the military industrial complex....

The 1960s called... they want their metaphor back...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

...Also, I'd sure as hell hate to see what the prices of certain goods and services will be once illegals are driven out of the country...

Who said anything about driving them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

...god, guns, gays, and xenophobia. Anything to distract the people from the daily anal rape by our corporate overlords.

Janeane Garofalo... is that you?
post #272 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So you wish to see those illegals continue to be exploited to keep the cost of said goods down by those "corporate overlords" you hate so much? Nice... \

No god, no guns, no boundaries, no rules...?

I'm all for paying people fair wages. I just don't think that the xenophobes quite understand what they are asking for.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #273 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm all for paying people fair wages. I just don't think that the xenophobes quite understand what they are asking for.

Maybe what the xenophobes are asking for are the jobs that condescending leftist asshats declared they wouldn't do but will gladly take in the wonderful land that Obama has created featuring chronic trillion dollar deficits, environmental spills, long term unemployment near double digits and the finger constantly being pointed at them of course for not fixing the reality that the utopians with their names and caricatures have wrought.

Maybe when we are all dead, bankrupt and the gulf is full of oil, they'll run out of names and blames.

Nah... I doubt it.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #274 of 374
Are you saying that the unemployed are seriously pissed that they can't go pick vegetables in a field?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #275 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Are you saying that the unemployed are seriously pissed that they can't go pick vegetables in a field?

Are you saying you spend so much time behind that screen that you buy into the ridiculous caricature that illegal immigrants can only grab a veggie off a plant?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #276 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Are you saying that the unemployed are seriously pissed that they can't go pick vegetables in a field?

Umm, yes, there are some that would be pissed about that. However, those are not the only jobs that immigrant workers do. Some services that I have seen utilized in the past year by people I work with:

House Painting
Lawn Care
Handyman services
Landscaping
Cleaning services

Not to mention the many other jobs that go to immigrant workers where they are not just a day labor type service. When you have over 20 million (is that figure right?) illegal immigrants in the US, they have a tendency to take the so-called "good" jobs along with the so-called "nobody wants to do them" jobs.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #277 of 374
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #278 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Umm, yes, there are some that would be pissed about that. However, those are not the only jobs that immigrant workers do. Some services that I have seen utilized in the past year by people I work with:

House Painting
Lawn Care
Handyman services
Landscaping
Cleaning services

Not to mention the many other jobs that go to immigrant workers where they are not just a day labor type service. When you have over 20 million (is that figure right?) illegal immigrants in the US, they have a tendency to take the so-called "good" jobs along with the so-called "nobody wants to do them" jobs.

Have the banks rehired all the people they fired when they were in crisis now that these banks are posting record profits again? I think not. Those are jobs we should be bitching about. But no, cry about illegals, god, guns, or gays enough and that's easily forgotten.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #279 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Have the banks rehired all the people they fired when they were in crisis now that these banks are posting record profits again? I think not. Those are jobs we should be bitching about. But no, cry about illegals, god, guns, or gays enough and that's easily forgotten.

Separate issue completely and a distraction from the point being made here. Neither one invalidates the other.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #280 of 374
If you were to list out all the problems that this country faces, I would put illegal immigration nowhere near the top. However, as the election season gets into full swing, those with tags of "R" next to their names will have everyone believe that illegal immigration is one of the most important issues, if not the single most important issue, we have. Some years it's "they're taking your guns!", others it's "those queers are killing the fabric of society!", and yet others it's "they want to burn your bibles!" This year it happens to be "They took our jobs! TOOK ER JERBS! DERKA DERBS!"

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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