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Arizona = Arian Zone - Page 9

post #321 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Federal Government Sues to block Arizona law. Because why though?

Why? Votes. Simple as that.

Crooked Obama's Justice Dept. is using federal "supremacy" clause against Arizona, not even contesting whether or not Arizona's law is discriminatory. That's right - lawsuit makes no claim of discrimination! Obama doesn't care whether border is secure but he does care about Arizona's hispanic constituency in next vote cycle. This issue has a good chance of backfiring on the White House, as any Constitutional lawyer (not Obama) knows that in order to succeed on federal supremacy claim the Fed musty have acted on border enforcement and it has not! Arizona can win suit by claiming inaction from fed as a states right priority.
post #322 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxParrish View Post

I think it is fairly obvious. Obama and the democrats constituency is the dependency class. The more that are dependent, the greater the number of votes. Now that a large part of the poor are immigrants, its important to keep that class pumped up in size. Hence, open borders.

Let's face it, amnesty is a potential ten million votes. And like the proverbial story that "Lenin said the capitalists will sell us the rope to hang them with", looks to be true.

That would be true if they weren't already counting any of them that vote anyhow.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #323 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Why? Votes. Simple as that.

Crooked Obama's Justice Dept. is using federal "supremacy" clause against Arizona, not even contesting whether or not Arizona's law is discriminatory. That's right - lawsuit makes no claim of discrimination! Obama doesn't care whether border is secure but he does care about Arizona's hispanic constituency in next vote cycle. This issue has a good chance of backfiring on the White House, as any Constitutional lawyer (not Obama) knows that in order to succeed on federal supremacy claim the Fed musty have acted on border enforcement and it has not! Arizona can win suit by claiming inaction from fed as a states right priority.

Quote:
Crooked Obama's Justice Dept

Jesus! Are you sure you aren't Moe from Texas?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #324 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Crime rates in Arizona at lowest point in decades. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS), the violent crime rate in Arizona was lower in 2006, 2007, and 2008 -- the most recent year from which data are available -- than any year since 1983. The property crime rate in Arizona was lower in 2006, 2007, and 2008 than any year since 1968. In addition, in Arizona, the violent crime rate dropped from 577.9 per 100,000 population in 1998 to 447 per 100,000 population in 2008; the property crime rate dropped from 5,997 to 4,291 during the same period. During the same decade, Arizona's undocumented immigrant population grew rapidly. The Arizona Republic reported: "Between January 2000 and January 2008, Arizona's undocumented population grew 70 percent, according to the DHS [Department of Homeland Security] report. Nationally, it grew 37 percent."

So much for the crime rate argument. Illegal immigration seems to be bring crime rates down. 70% increase of illegals in AZ brought down their crime rate. THIS SAVES A LOT OF TAXPAYER $$$!!
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post #325 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

So much for the crime rate argument. Illegal immigration seems to be bring crime rates down. 70% increase of illegals in AZ brought down their crime rate. THIS SAVES A LOT OF TAXPAYER $$$!!

Maybe the word "illegal" is beyond your comprehension? Illegal alien immigrants that ignore US immigration law will likely ignore other US laws as well...

btw... CRIME VICTIMS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS
post #326 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Illegal alien immigrants that ignore US immigration law will likely ignore other US laws as well...

This is not necessarily so. Is there reliable evidence of this?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #327 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

This is not necessarily so. Is there reliable evidence of this?

I'd like to know also.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #328 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

This is not necessarily so. Is there reliable evidence of this?

Links here, here, and here advance hard evidence on the dark side of illegal aliens and their threat to Americans along the border...Among the findings:

"In addition, violent crime and drug distribution and possession is also prevalent among illegal aliens. Over 25% of today's federal prison population are illegal aliens. In some areas of the country, 12% of felonies, 25% of burglaries and 34% of thefts are committed by illegal aliens."

The open borders lobby ignores this evidence....
post #329 of 374
How much of that is associated with drugs and cartels? End the war on drugs and you cut out that crime.

How much of that is associated with poverty? End the war on the poor and you cut out many of those crimes.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #330 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

How much of that is associated with drugs and cartels? End the war on drugs and you cut out that crime.

I think we'd definitely need to find a way to break the numbers down with this in mind. There are two reasons, one is what you've said here...basically an ineffective and questionable "war on drugs" (tell me this...why is that every time the federal government declares war on something we seem to actually get more of it?) The second reason is that the people who are involved with the drug business are already directly and purposely involved with crime and will use criminal activities in their business.

The real question is what is the probability of the average Mexican who is illegally crossing the border simply to try and find a better life (i.e., the only real "crime" they are committing is illegally crossing the border)...what is the probability that they will commit other violent or property crimes (or any other crimes for that matter)?

In fairness I plan to dig into Camp David's links when I have bit more time to digest and analyze them.

P.S. A quick scan of this information suggests that a substantial portion of the crime is drug-traffificking-related or related to the strong desire but difficulty of getting into the country and thus the willingness to get in illegally (e.g., human trafficking and identity theft).

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #331 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

In fairness I plan to dig into Camp David's links when I have bit more time to digest and analyze them.

In addition to this evidence take a hard look at Arizona border towns and how they are coping with the onslaught of illegal aliens and crime. On the news the other night was a story on homeowners in Tucson, Arizona having to chain their cars to their homes to prevent growing auto theft! Issues like these drove the state to pass the laws they did. And their overwhelming support nationally.
post #332 of 374
David, I feel like you are one of those terrible doctors who only cares about treating symptoms and doesn't bother trying to get to the root of the issue. You don't solve anything just by patching up the byproducts of some underlying problem.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #333 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

So much for the crime rate argument. Illegal immigration seems to be bring crime rates down. 70% increase of illegals in AZ brought down their crime rate. THIS SAVES A LOT OF TAXPAYER $$$!!

Silly, acts aren't crimes unless you declare them to be crimes. Every person over the border illegally has committed a crime by breaking the law yet there is no reporting, no enforcement and no punishment. By that definition alone, there is a chronic and high level of law breaking.

Stop buying into propaganda.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #334 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Silly, acts aren't crimes unless you declare them to be crimes. Every person over the border illegally has committed a crime by breaking the law yet there is no reporting, no enforcement and no punishment. By that definition alone, there is a chronic and high level of law breaking.

Stop buying into propaganda.

If you would read the quoted article, it only refers to property and violent crime but your ignorance is expected and reliable.

And now some lines for you:
___|
________|
__________________|
__________|
_______|
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post #335 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

If you would read the quoted article, it only refers to property and violent crime but your ignorance is expected and reliable.

Bulb alighting over head moment for Wormhole: By legal definition an illegal alien is already a criminal, having willing broken US immigration law.
post #336 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Bulb alighting over head moment for Wormhole: By legal definition an illegal alien is already a criminal, having willing broken US immigration law.

This is true but tautological.

The real question that should be examined though is whether people who immigrate legally or illegally have some higher propensity to commit other crimes like violent or property crimes and investigation into the reasons for these (a substantial portion of the crimes committed appear to be related to both drug trafficking and/or just coming into the country illegally). This analysis might cause us to rethink the difficulty that is present in the current immigration policies and laws in coming into the country legally and consider whether these policies and laws are counter-productive or not.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #337 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Bulb alighting over head moment for Wormhole: By legal definition an illegal alien is already a criminal, having willing broken US immigration law.

Bulb very dim over Camp David head. READ THE QUOTE.

property and violent crime has victims who are private citizens. If these crime rates go down there are less damages to private citizens. Illegal immigration IS NOT MENTIONED IN THIS STATISTIC and the victims are not private citizens but HMM who is the victim, the Feds, the Taxpayer (obviously not).

People who come to this country after they have received an education as in learning how to READ are costing the US less than it's own citizens.
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post #338 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

This analysis might cause us to rethink the difficulty that is present in the current immigration policies and laws in coming into the country legally and consider whether these policies and laws are counter-productive or not.

OMG I agree with MJ1870.

The stats show that the IIs (illegal Immigrants) are helping to reduce crime. If we apply strict logic we should deport US citizens instead.
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post #339 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

The stats show that the IIs (illegal Immigrants) are helping to reduce crime.

Illegal immigrants (illegal aliens) have already committed and are guilty of the crime of flaunting US immigration laws....
post #340 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Illegal immigrants (illegal aliens) have already committed and are guilty of the crime of flaunting US immigration laws....

And the circular logic continues. \

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #341 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Illegal immigrants (illegal aliens) have already committed and are guilty of the crime of flaunting US immigration laws....

So they're automatically guilty of everything else. I see......
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #342 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Illegal immigrants (illegal aliens) have already committed and are guilty of the crime of flaunting US immigration laws....

and the victim is ... ?
and why ... ?
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post #343 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

and the victim is ...

CRIME VICTIMS OF ILLEGAL ALIENS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

and why ... ?

Obama's lax immigration stance is to court Hispanic voters.‎
post #344 of 374
And now, suddenly, this administration is concerned with the constitutionality of laws:

Quote:
"I understand, first off, the frustration of the people of Arizona and the concerns that they have with regard to the amount of illegal immigration that occurs," Holder told Schieffer. "But the solution that the Arizona legislature came up with is inconsistent with our federal Constitution."


Quote:
The debate over the immigration law has largely fallen along partisan lines, but Holder said it was "not true at all" that the lawsuit was politically motivated.

"The basis for this was a legal determination by those of us at the Justice Department that the law was inconsistent with the Constitution," he said.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #345 of 374
The question of the crime rate of immigrants, legal and illegal, is not easy to assess. On the other hand, it is easy to assess the crime rate of minority groups, some of whom are largely populated with first, second, and third generation immigration.

For example, Asians contribute less to crime than others, including Whites. On the other end are hispanics, who do contribute to much higher crime rates. Logically then, one ought to be guarded about hispanic immigration, because they are much more likely to become criminals.

Regarding the criminality of first generation immmigration, the statistics are only suggestive, not conclusive. However one ought to note that the Homeland Security Department, as a part of their Secure Communities program, estimated that 20 percent of those incarcerated (at all levels of government), are foreign born (only 12 or 13 percen to the US is foreign born). And the Fentress Corporation in its study of 8.2 million inmate record in jails and prisons found 22 percent (2004) were foreign born.

In a study conducted by the panelists and authors (linked below) they found that "in four of the six counties where we had good 287(g) data and possibly five, really, it does appear that the illegal immigrants make up a much larger fraction of the jail population than they do the overall population of adults in that community. ...Maricopa County, it appears that 22 percent of felons were found to be illegal immigrants and illegals seem to be only about 10 percent of that county’s adult population. In another example, in Lake County, Illinois, illegals are 19 percent of jail inmates, but only 6 percent of the local adult population."

http://cis.org/Transcripts/ImmigrationAndCrimePanel

Also one should note that the evidence of criminality may be understated:

Quote:
•From 1998 to 2007, 816,000 criminal aliens were removed from the United States because of a criminal charge or conviction. This is equal to about one-fifth of the nation’s total jail and prison population. These figures do not include those removed for the lesser offense of living or working in the country illegally. The removal and deportation of large numbers of criminal aliens may reduce immigrant incarceration rates because many will not return and re-offend, as is the case with many native-born criminals.

http://cis.org/ImmigrantCrime

But as I said, we can measure crime rates among minority groups, and among minority groups whose presence in America is due to immigration (rather than slavery) Latinos rank highest. That alone suggests that we should be wary and restrictive of this group.
post #346 of 374
Thread Starter 

PLeas, oh. please read.
My question was:
Who is the victim of the crime of "illegal immigration" or "visa overstay" or all the other crimes related to immigration which are not property, drug related or violent crimes.
And the answer is?

Or stfu
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post #347 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

PLeas, oh. please read.
My question was:
Who is the victim of the crime of "illegal immigration" or "visa overstay" or all the other crimes related to immigration which are not property, drug related or violent crimes.
And the answer is?

Or stfu

Whenever an illegal uses free county health services, or federally funded primary care centers, or false ID's using other's social security numbers, or free public education for their kids, or free government housing...etc. WE ARE.

And whenever immigration brings in a population that does not create substantial surplus wealth but create unpaid for externalities (crime, pollution, etc.) then WE pay. We are the victims, and we have a right to take off our yoke of support and toss them out.
post #348 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

PLeas, oh. please read.
My question was:
Who is the victim of the crime of "illegal immigration" or "visa overstay" or all the other crimes related to immigration which are not property, drug related or violent crimes.
And the answer is?

Or stfu

No one has to convince you against your will by proving some arbitrary level of damages that you will dismiss and ignore anyway.

They've already broken the law. That isn't enough for you. There is clearly some cost and harm. That isn't good enough for you.

Come back for a serious discussion that doesn't involve covering your ears and telling people to STFU while flipping them the bird. Until then back under the bridge for you.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #349 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

No one has to convince you against your will by proving some arbitrary level of damages that you will dismiss and ignore anyway.

They've already broken the law. That isn't enough for you. There is clearly some cost and harm. That isn't good enough for you.

Come back for a serious discussion that doesn't involve covering your ears and telling people to STFU while flipping them the bird. Until then back under the bridge for you.

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #350 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

They've already broken the law. That isn't enough for you. There is clearly some cost and harm. That isn't good enough for you.

Ever drove faster than the speed limit, Trumptman?
You have clearly broken the law, it would be enough for me to deport you.

However, knowing your endless Hypocrisy, you will be more than happy to get your soc sec payments which we now know 1.7 Billion $ came from illegal immigrants who worked on fake soc sec # and paid into the pot and will never receive benefits.

Let me draw some lines for you:

_
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post #351 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Ever drove faster than the speed limit, Trumptman?
You have clearly broken the law, it would be enough for me to deport you.

However, knowing your endless Hypocrisy, you will be more than happy to get your soc sec payments which we now know 1.7 Billion $ came from illegal immigrants who worked on fake soc sec # and paid into the pot and will never receive benefits.

Let me draw some lines for you:

_

Except for the fact that he is a citizen of the United States and cannot be deported. Your argument is ridiculous.

And yes, if an illegal immigrant were to break the law by speeding and were pulled over for that primary offense, they could be asked to see their papers and be deported for being found to not be legal residents.

As far as Social Security is concerned, if the system is not bankrupt, I would love to get my money back that I was forced to pay in all these years. I paid it in for retirement benefits, so yes, I am entitled to get it back. As are you, Trumptman, SDW2001 and any other citizens who paid into it. What I am (should) NOT (be) entitled to, is to take more out of it than I put in.

Some Lines for you...
Code:


I \\|~|/
X__|~|__
|__|~|__|
O /|~|\\
Y. |~|
E. |~|
.. ---
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #352 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I \\|~|/
X__|~|__
|__|~|__|
O /|~|\\
Y. |~|
E. |~|

I never asked to have lines drawn for me, you must confuse me with a complete idiot.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #353 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

I never asked to have lines drawn for me, you must confuse me with a complete idiot.

I am not confused at all, are you? Consider it a free gift...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #354 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Who is the victim of the crime of "illegal immigration" or "visa overstay" or all the other crimes related to immigration which are not property, drug related or violent crimes.

You clearly didn't read the answers provided for you. Please do.

To restate, the victims of illegal immigration are every American citizen. We are victimized by long hospital wait time (due to demands on medical profession made by illegal immigrants). We are victimized by increased operational costs on local, state, and federal government services (due to demands on government made by illegal immigrants). We are victimized by loss of entry level jobs (illegally taken by illegal immigrants). We are victimized by increases in crime (made by illegal immigrants not following our law). Lastly, other U.S. immigrants who lawfully immigrate to this country and stand in all INS lines and properly comply with INS regulations/documentation are victimized by illegal immigrants who ignore the legal immigration process and skirt the regulations.
post #355 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

You clearly didn't read the answers provided for you. Please do.

To restate, the victims of illegal immigration are every American citizen. We are victimized by long hospital wait time (due to demands on medical profession made by illegal immigrants). We are victimized by increased operational costs on local, state, and federal government services (due to demands on government made by illegal immigrants). We are victimized by loss of entry level jobs (illegally taken by illegal immigrants). We are victimized by increases in crime (made by illegal immigrants not following our law). Lastly, other U.S. immigrants who lawfully immigrate to this country and stand in all INS lines and properly comply with INS regulations/documentation are victimized by illegal immigrants who ignore the legal immigration process and skirt the regulations.

Yeah it causes horrible pain to pay so little for groceries and child care and truck drivers and harvest workers. Terrible.

INS what's that? (Maybe you haven't it under that rock of yours, but we had a president named Bush ....)

Loss of entry level jobs?
CA has a program that invites US citizens to come and take jobs that are usually filled by illegal immigrants. After 6 month they have 4 US citizens working.
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post #356 of 374
Thread Starter 
Immigration.
McCain, Democratic Sen. Edward Kennedy and President George W. Bush were the prime movers of comprehensive immigration reform in 2006. But Kennedy died, Bush left office and McCain has become a hard-liner as he fights a primary challenge from the right. The 2006 bill strengthened border security but also laid out a path to earned citizenship for some 12 million illegal immigrants already in the country. Obama said in a speech this month that "under the pressures of partisanship and election-year politics, many of the 11 Republican senators who voted for reform in the past have now backed away from their previous support."
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post #357 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Ever drove faster than the speed limit, Trumptman?
You have clearly broken the law, it would be enough for me to deport you.

However, knowing your endless Hypocrisy, you will be more than happy to get your soc sec payments which we now know 1.7 Billion $ came from illegal immigrants who worked on fake soc sec # and paid into the pot and will never receive benefits.

Let me draw some lines for you:

_

I have driven faster than the speed limit and would take whatever consequences and repercussions related to that if ticketed and determined to be guilty.

Speaking of hypocrisy, what would happen if I broke the law to such a degree in Mexico or Canada? I wonder how lenient the authorities would be there.

Also Social Security took in $805 BILLION dollars last year. The amount contributed by illegal immigrants via identity theft (a crime that certainly has victims) is a pittance in comparison. Your claim of positive benefits is sort of like declaring that the child molester made the kids dinner before s(he) did their crime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

You clearly didn't read the answers provided for you. Please do.

To restate, the victims of illegal immigration are every American citizen. We are victimized by long hospital wait time (due to demands on medical profession made by illegal immigrants). We are victimized by increased operational costs on local, state, and federal government services (due to demands on government made by illegal immigrants). We are victimized by loss of entry level jobs (illegally taken by illegal immigrants). We are victimized by increases in crime (made by illegal immigrants not following our law). Lastly, other U.S. immigrants who lawfully immigrate to this country and stand in all INS lines and properly comply with INS regulations/documentation are victimized by illegal immigrants who ignore the legal immigration process and skirt the regulations.

Exactly but again we are talking about a guy who declares there is no recession because his organic farm is making more money than ever. Clearly he is so profane because he is worried that we will export his workforce and he will then be forced to pay higher wages to Americans and take money out of his own pocket to do so.

The motives are pretty clear here. The exploiters are against the rule of law.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #358 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

As far as Social Security is concerned, if the system is not bankrupt, I would love to get my money back that I was forced to pay in all these years. I paid it in for retirement benefits, so yes, I am entitled to get it back. As are you, Trumptman, SDW2001 and any other citizens who paid into it. What I am (should) NOT (be) entitled to, is to take more out of it than I put in.

You actually are not entitled to any of it. That wasn't the purpose of social security. It wasn't a retirement fund. It was and still is old age insurance.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #359 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You actually are not entitled to any of it.

I'm not entirely sure about this.

I'll admit I don't know the precise legal definitions here, and I'm more than willing to believe that the federal government has setup something where nothing whatsoever is guaranteed to anyone but more than willingly let everyone believe it is. All of that said, I've heard that one of the reasons they can't cut SS benefits or do any kind of "means testing" to eliminate people who are easily able to survive without it is exactly because such a move would violate the basic (entitlement) "contract" between the federal government and the tax payers. Now, granted, no contract with the government is worth the paper it's printed on, but I do recall this being the reasoning for the inability to cut SS in any way.

BTW, there seems to be something like this for Medicare and other welfare or social programs that makes them basically non-discretionary in the budget as well. Which is part of why we appear to be kinda fucked. The total amount of discretionary spending in the budget is around $800 billion! That includes the entire defense budget. Which means, right now, if you could cut all of the discretionary spending (including one of the federal government's constitutionally duties...defense...as opposed to all of the other crap it does) to zero, you'd still be in deficit to the tune of around $700 billion to $1 trillion. And those non-discretionary...errr...obligations will keep going up, not down.

Ouch.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #360 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

You actually are not entitled to any of it. That wasn't the purpose of social security. It wasn't a retirement fund. It was and still is old age insurance.

It is more than Old age insurance now, and to claim anything else is to close your eyes to reality...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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