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Arizona = Arian Zone - Page 10

post #361 of 374
7/12/10 at 2:41pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Social security has always and continues to be pay as you go. Now, the Republicans made fun of Al Gore and his lockbox but that would have helped social security's future immensely. In fact, that lockbox was the fiscally conservative route. Silly Republicans. If only the social security surpluses weren't spent as part of the general budget...

But anyway, it was designed to be and still is a year to year program. Every working adult pays into it and those who are old enough, sick enough, and/or poor enough to qualify gets benefits.

It was designed as insurance. It still is insurance. To claim anything otherwise is ridonkulous. Just because the Republicans in their zeal to privatize and deregulate everything have tried to reframe social security as something more than insurance doesn't actually make it so.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #362 of 374
7/12/10 at 2:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

It is more than Old age insurance now, and to claim anything else is to close your eyes to reality...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Social security has always and continues to be pay as you go. Now, the Republicans made fun of Al Gore and his lockbox but that would have helped social security's future immensely. In fact, that lockbox was the fiscally conservative route. Silly Republicans. If only the social security surpluses weren't spent as part of the general budget...

But anyway, it was designed to be and still is a year to year program. Every working adult pays into it and those who are old enough, sick enough, and/or poor enough to qualify gets benefits.

It was designed as insurance. It still is insurance. To claim anything otherwise is ridonkulous. Just because the Republicans in their zeal to privatize and deregulate everything have tried to reframe social security as something more than insurance doesn't actually make it so.

BR's right. SS is nothing more than a welfare program for the elderly. All the trust fund and lock box nonsense is just attempts to obscure this point because some time soon (like say a couple decades ago) we won't be able to pay out to everyone. The "means testing" of it will simply raise the limit on income that can be taxed for it and people will be thrown off of it if it is declared they don't need it and then it will be revealed as just a gigantic elderly welfare program and support for it will finally fall dramatically. The claim that it is some sort of retirement account or that you've saved something is the biggest lie politicians and the government has ever spread or even allowed to be misrepresented or misconstrued.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #363 of 374
7/12/10 at 3:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The exploiters are against the rule of law.

No I do not follow Republican traditions.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #364 of 374
7/12/10 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The motives are pretty clear here. The exploiters are against the rule of law.

By "exploiters" I assume you are including Barack Hussein Obama since his Justice Department's lawsuit against the state of Arizona costs its citizens needed funds in legal defense against a job Obama's government is suppose to do (secure the border). BHO exploits US citizens.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Social security has always and continues to be pay as you go...

Wrong. Social Security was originally designed as a set-aside payment plan, all the funds of which were to be set aside until needed in a private government account. Congress types couldn't help themselves and they borrowed funds from this account that drained the principal.
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post #365 of 374
7/12/10 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

No I do not follow Republican traditions.

Sounds like Seg's wonderful reasoning paraphrased as, 'Left wingers who engage in said action aren't left wingers but instead have temporarily become right wingers until they forgo such action and thus return to being left wing.'

I note you conveniently forgot to state that you don't hire illegal immigrants for your workforce and that you pay wages high enough to ensure a legal American workforce and likewise a workforce that isn't being exploited.

Put up or shut up, especially since the motives for why you support illegal immigration are so clear.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #366 of 374
7/12/10 at 4:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

By "exploiters" I assume you are including Barack Hussein Obama since his Justice Department's lawsuit against the state of Arizona costs its citizens needed funds in legal defense against a job Obama's government is suppose to do (secure the border). BHO exploits US citizens.

No I prefer to call BHO and his ilk looters.

Quote:
Wrong. Social Security was originally designed as a set-aside payment plan, all the funds of which were to be set aside until needed in a private government account. Congress types couldn't help themselves and they borrowed funds from this account that drained the principal.

A debt to yourself is self-canceling. In legalese you might be right but in true spirit, BR is right. Social Security/government reasoning could make you a billionaire tomorrow if you would just write a check to yourself. Good luck trying to cash it though.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #367 of 374
7/12/10 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

No I prefer to call BHO and his ilk looters.



A debt to yourself is self-canceling. In legalese you might be right but in true spirit, BR is right. Social Security/government reasoning could make you a billionaire tomorrow if you would just write a check to yourself. Good luck trying to cash it though.

I actually went and read up on it aftger BR's post to ensure that I better understood it. It was not pay as you go to begin with. But it is now. However, it is not just for the elderly, that is false. You can get social security if you are disabled and for other reasons...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #368 of 374
7/12/10 at 5:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

A debt to yourself is self-canceling. In legalese you might be right but in true spirit, BR is right. Social Security/government reasoning could make you a billionaire tomorrow if you would just write a check to yourself. Good luck trying to cash it though.

You're missing the point here... social security is not a debt to yourself but a legal contract between citizen taxpayers and the government. In theory you should only get out of Social Security what you pay in (your debt to yourself) but that is not what what happens in practice. For example, millions of men/women who paid into Social Security for decades yet died before turning 65 have lost every cent paid into the system; as I mentioned government borrowed against the Social Security principal endangering the system. Lastly, more people are withdrawing from Social Security than are paying into the system. Moreover, the government keeps raising the retirement age, thus nullifying the original Social Security contract.
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post #369 of 374
7/12/10 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Immigration.
... The 2006 bill strengthened border security but also laid out a path to earned citizenship for some 12 million illegal immigrants already in the country. Obama said in a speech this month that "under the pressures of partisanship and election-year politics, many of the 11 Republican senators who voted for reform in the past have now backed away from their previous support."

I am not sure what the purpose of your post was, but we might as well correct a few errors. The number of illegal aliens in the US is at least 18 million, perhaps as many as 24 million. The figure you quoted came from the 2000 census, which only counted those people who admitted they were illegal. Bear Stearns did a later report, using statistical sampling. It's estimate was around 24 million. And since 500,000 a year has been thought to immigrate illegally beteen 2000 and 2006, you can see how unrealistic the 12 or 13 million figures are.

Also, the 2006 bill provided just minimal improvements in border security, relegating the border fence to a loophole ridden, unspecified future date. It also permitted chain migration to continue for many more years, vastly increased legal immigration, and provided "super amnesty" - not only forgiveness for violating the law BUT the reward of getting to keep their ill-gotten gains (i.e. they got to stay).

And yes, many in the GOP and some in the Democratic party are getting the message - and are finally starting to fear the voter backlash.
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post #370 of 374
7/13/10 at 8:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

You're missing the point here... social security is not a debt to yourself but a legal contract between citizen taxpayers and the government. In theory you should only get out of Social Security what you pay in (your debt to yourself) but that is not what what happens in practice. For example, millions of men/women who paid into Social Security for decades yet died before turning 65 have lost every cent paid into the system; as I mentioned government borrowed against the Social Security principal endangering the system. Lastly, more people are withdrawing from Social Security than are paying into the system. Moreover, the government keeps raising the retirement age, thus nullifying the original Social Security contract.

I'm not missing the point. I never claimed Social Security was a debt to oneself as in one person. I simply noted that the government as an entity owing money to itself doesn't have a real asset. There is no Social Security principle because it is merely an accounting gimmick.

The analogy was you writing a check to yourself and declaring you had an asset. You don't nor does the government with Social Security.

But also back on the thread topic, isn't it interesting that certain members of the agrarian community don't want their sources of cheap and exploitable labor taken away?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #371 of 374
7/13/10 at 9:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


But also back on the thread topic, isn't it interesting that certain members of the agrarian community don't want their sources of cheap and exploitable labor taken away?

These members are called Republicans.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #372 of 374
7/13/10 at 9:47am
So the Democrats are the ones who want both cheap, exploitable labor and genocide. Thanks for fixing the confusion.

Why would anyone support the importation of what amounts to slave labor?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #373 of 374
9/2/10 at 12:09pm
AZ asks for 3,000 National Guard troops along border, gets 30

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #374 of 374
9/9/10 at 12:57pm
Appeals court blocks Pa. town's immigration law

Quote:
The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia said that Hazleton's Illegal Immigration Relief Act usurped the federal government's exclusive power to regulate immigration.

So what recourse do the states have when the federal government refuses to properly regulate immigration?

The time, money, and energy the federal government is spending on suing its own people for trying to protect themselves from the results of its neglect would be better spent enforcing immigration law.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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