or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Arizona = Arian Zone
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Arizona = Arian Zone - Page 3

post #81 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post


There is always a thought behind every post, and saying otherwise is simply trying to demean the person who posted. Meet the person where they are coming from, and try to understand what they are posting and why they are snarky, snide or otherwise. You won't always end up agreeing or liking them more, but at least you would have made an effort instead of lowering the conversation value further...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #82 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

There is always a thought behind every post, and saying otherwise is simply trying to demean the person who posted. Meet the person where they are coming from, and try to understand what they are posting and why they are snarky, snide or otherwise. You won't always end up agreeing or liking them more, but at least you would have made an effort instead of lowering the conversation value further...

I disagree...I often post without thinking about it and I'm 100% sure with all the knee-jerkers on here that I'm not alone.

As I've said before; I'm all for upping the conversation level but that requires that your partner in the enterprise is capable of doing it. Often it is not the case on certain issues - but then we all have our particular blind spots where we can't be reasonable I suppose.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #83 of 374
Keep wondering because Noah is being nice and pointing you at the fact that Wormhole is endorsing genocide and that is to what I was referring. No one need keep pointing you in the right direction if you could simply stop jumping to bad conclusions and making accusations related to them.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #84 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Keep wondering because Noah is being nice and pointing you at the fact that Wormhole is endorsing genocide and that is to what I was referring. No one need keep pointing you in the right direction if you could simply stop jumping to bad conclusions and making accusations related to them.

You see Wormhole was not endorsing genocide and as you two say he is (what is it with you two btw? Which one is the ventriloquist? I can't work it out) then two things ar epossible and two things only:

1) You know this and are lying

2) You do not know this and you face certain significant challenges in the area of comprehension

EITHER one of these - and they are the only two possibilities - disqualifies either of you from being talked to as an equal.

Of course I do believe in you - I believe you can raise your game and I shall keep trying to help you do it. Seriously, I am here for you when you do but until then it would be an egregious insult to those of any political stripe who do not suffer these limitations if anyone were to treat you as their equal.

The answer is simple: stop lying or start learning. We're here to help and we all believe you can do it...we're looking forward to the day when we can argue over the FACTS. Come on...join us over here...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #85 of 374
It is very strange that you ask someone to "step up (their) game" while dwelling so little on the topic and so much on this claimed introspection you have into everyone. Please see that since you have no special understanding of anyone here that all your conclusions about their claimed motives are just a big waste of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

You see Wormhole was not endorsing genocide and as you two say he is

Yes he is and the sig is a direct quote and a direct link. Spin it away if you want. I need not convince you to convince the majority or the reasonable.


Quote:
(what is it with you two btw? Which one is the ventriloquist? I can't work it out) then two things ar epossible and two things only:

1) You know this and are lying

2) You do not know this and you face certain significant challenges in the area of comprehension

EITHER one of these - and they are the only two possibilities - disqualifies either of you from being talked to as an equal.

Of course I do believe in you - I believe you can raise your game and I shall keep trying to help you do it. Seriously, I am here for you when you do but until then it would be an egregious insult to those of any political stripe who do not suffer these limitations if anyone were to treat you as their equal.

The answer is simple: stop lying or start learning. We're here to help and we all believe you can do it...we're looking forward to the day when we can argue over the FACTS. Come on...join us over here...

This is all a waste of time. Conclusions based on nonsense often are though but I hope you enjoyed exercising your fingers.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #86 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

It is very strange that you ask someone to "step up (their) game" while dwelling so little on the topic and so much on this claimed introspection you have into everyone. Please see that since you have no special understanding of anyone here that all your conclusions about their claimed motives are just a big waste of time.



Yes he is and the sig is a direct quote and a direct link. Spin it away if you want. I need not convince you to convince the majority or the reasonable.




This is all a waste of time. Conclusions based on nonsense often are though but I hope you enjoyed exercising your fingers.

I am totally endorsing genocide and
wir werden mit den Rupublikanern anfangen!!
Jawohl. Wir gedulden keine Geistig Minderbemittelten in unserer Rasse.

_______
_________________
_______
_____
yes I want oil genocide.
Reply
yes I want oil genocide.
Reply
post #87 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I disagree...I often post without thinking about it and I'm 100% sure with all the knee-jerkers on here that I'm not alone.

As I've said before; I'm all for upping the conversation level but that requires that your partner in the enterprise is capable of doing it. Often it is not the case on certain issues - but then we all have our particular blind spots where we can't be reasonable I suppose.

Even when you post "without thinking" there was a thought behind it. Perhaps not fully considered, but there was a thought. In fact, it may even be a better insight into you due to the fact that you may have let your filters down a bit and exposed what you really think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Keep wondering because Noah is being nice and pointing you at the fact that Wormhole is endorsing genocide and that is to what I was referring. No one need keep pointing you in the right direction if you could simply stop jumping to bad conclusions and making accusations related to them.

Well, not exactly, I was being nice, but Wormhole was not on my mind at the time. His post on Genocide was poorly constructed sarcasm that he has refused to temper or refute, and otherwise it does not interest me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

You see Wormhole was not endorsing genocide and as you two say he is (what is it with you two btw? Which one is the ventriloquist? I can't work it out) then two things ar epossible and two things only:

1) You know this and are lying

2) You do not know this and you face certain significant challenges in the area of comprehension

EITHER one of these - and they are the only two possibilities - disqualifies either of you from being talked to as an equal.

Of course I do believe in you - I believe you can raise your game and I shall keep trying to help you do it. Seriously, I am here for you when you do but until then it would be an egregious insult to those of any political stripe who do not suffer these limitations if anyone were to treat you as their equal.

The answer is simple: stop lying or start learning. We're here to help and we all believe you can do it...we're looking forward to the day when we can argue over the FACTS. Come on...join us over here...

No ventriloquism here, it is called reading comprehension. And when there is a question, rather than jumping to conclusion, flying off the handle and otherwise making a fool of myself, I ask direct questions or try to clarify the position. Read my posts, a LOT of them are simply that. I have done it with your posts many times. However, when I do not get the same courtesy in response it makes me less willing to make the effort going forward. If I am going to disagree with someone, I want to ensure that I know for sure what the position is that I disagree with.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #88 of 374
Quote:
His post on Genocide was poorly constructed sarcasm that he has refused to temper or refute, and otherwise it does not interest me.

Case in point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

I am totally endorsing genocide and
wir werden mit den Rupublikaners anfangen!!
Jawohl. Wir gedulden keine Geistig Minderbemittelten in unserer Rasse.

_______
_________________
_______
_____
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #89 of 374
Not sure if this has been posted yet:

Quote:
Mexico acknowledges migrant abuse, pledges changes

One of the main issues, Amnesty says, is that migrants fear they will be deported if they complain to Mexican authorities about abuses.

At present, Article 67 of Mexico's Population Law says, "Authorities, whether federal, state or municipal ... are required to demand that foreigners prove their legal presence in the country, before attending to any issues."

The Interior Department said the government has taken some steps to combat abuses and Mexico's legislature is working to repeal Article 67 "so that no one can deny or restrict foreigners' access to justice and human rights, whatever their migratory status."

The Amnesty report said one female migrant told researchers that Mexican federal police had forced her group off a train and stolen their belongings. Forced to walk, she said, she was subsequently attacked by a gang and raped.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
Reply
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
Reply
post #90 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Case in point...

Don't tell me something escaped you?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #91 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Don't tell me something escaped you?

Nope, he still manages to use very poor taste in his sarcasm and does not care to temper it. Nothing escaped me at all. You?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #92 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Nope, he still manages to use very poor taste in his sarcasm and does not care to temper it. Nothing escaped me at all. You?

But if memory serves correctly trumpy did it also.

Quote:
Oh I'm pretty sure that bullets would be much cheaper. Think about the reduction in land use and also the shrinking carbon footprint. Also think about all the future offspring they won't have if you do this.

Your sig addresses what you think is the best solution for this matter. Hell you could turn them into fertilizer and still call the food organic on your farm.

But you think this one's funny. I see.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #93 of 374
Here's something that is very funny. Take the federal law language which is controlled by our Democratic Congress and President Barack Obama. This language obviously reflects caring and concern for others cultures and of course diversity! Take that language and write it into state law in a Republican led state with a Repubican governor and now it is racist, and hateful!

Better still let's do the following.......

Take a group of mostly the same ethnic group and have them be dissatisfied with the actions their government is taking with regard to passing a law. Have them protest and perhaps, proven or unproven have a few incidences occur across the country involving some broken windows or a couple phone threats, not even limited to one political party. Let's also say a few of these protesters have signs or sayings linking the leader passing the law with Nazism.

If you call this issue health care, the ethnic group as anglo, and the leader is Barack Obama, then the people are racist, hateful, violent and extremist.

Take a group of mostly the same ethnic group and have them be dissatisfied with the actions their government is taking with regard to passing a law. Have them protest and perhaps, proven or unproven have a few incidences occur across the country involving some broken windows or a couple phone threats, not even limited to one political party. Let's also say a few of these protesters have signs or sayings linking the leader passing the law with Nazism.

If you call this issue immigration, the ethnic group as Latino, and the leader is Jan Brewer, then the people are ..............

Should be the same shouldn't it? Only it isn't. Now of course it is the opposite.

How convenient and how ironic!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #94 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

But if memory serves correctly trumpy did it also.

So that makes it ok? I have not played any favorites here.But you are free to cry about it if you like.

Quote:
But you think this one's funny. I see.

Yeah, that is why I said it was funny and lol'd and said it was funny and lol'd and said it was funny and lol'd. Right?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #95 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Here's something that is very funny. Take the federal law language which is controlled by our Democratic Congress and President Barack Obama. This language obviously reflects caring and concern for others cultures and of course diversity! Take that language and write it into state law in a Republican led state with a Repubican governor and now it is racist, and hateful!

You are on to something here... Whatever baracky and democrats do on the federal level is just peachy keen; whatever republicans do on the state level is just awful... that's the meme being pushed. So what happened in Arizona? Over the last two decades neither democrats [nor republicans] helped the state control the illegal immigrant problem. Arizonians took the matter in hand and decided to control its own borders with new laws that toughened enforcement. Baracky and the democrats led teh charge in painting the state as racist.
post #96 of 374
Please don't use the name Baracky. I keep seeing a bad TV series called "Baracky and the Troll Patrol" and I imagine it making millions. It doesn't need ratings, just the good intentions of the series pilot would be enough to earn the money.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #97 of 374
Didn't feel like starting a whole new thread. And this seemed most relevant to this thread.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #98 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Didn't feel like starting a whole new thread. And this seemed most relevant to this thread.

This is exactly the sort of thing that is going to make people turn into 'terrorists'.

The more ordinary people that are terrorized by these Nazis - and they are just ordinary people that are coming under attack, not the 'terrorists' - the more they will see that the agenda is not to 'protect' them but to enslave them.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #99 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

So that makes it ok? I have not played any favorites here.But you are free to cry about it if you like.



Yeah, that is why I said it was funny and lol'd and said it was funny and lol'd and said it was funny and lol'd. Right?

It couldn't be a case of PPD could it? I mean you only pointed out one side.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #100 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

This is exactly the sort of thing that is going to make people turn into 'terrorists'.

The more ordinary people that are terrorized by these Nazis - and they are just ordinary people that are coming under attack, not the 'terrorists' - the more they will see that the agenda is not to 'protect' them but to enslave them.

Mexico must be creating loads of terrorists then because not only do you get checked and searched at the border, they have checkpoints at certain points within the border zone where you can get checked as well. They do on the California side as well. The difference of course is that guys on the California aren't part of the country's armed forces and carrying M-16's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It couldn't be a case of PPD could it? I mean you only pointed out one side.

You should stop making yourself look ridiculous. I coined the phrase intent game because I got tired of just saying ad-hominem circumstantial over and over. However the fallacy does exist and isn't just made up nonsense.

Quote:
Ad hominem circumstantial points out that someone is in circumstances such that he is disposed to take a particular position. Ad hominem circumstantial constitutes an attack on the bias of a source. This is fallacious because a disposition to make a certain argument does not make the argument false; this overlaps with the genetic fallacy (an argument that a claim is incorrect due to its source).

Your little coined phrase is simply made up nonsense and in fact in declaring someone is simply wrong because they are suffering from PPD, aka are wrong BECAUSE they are a partisan Republican, you are in fact engaging in said ad-hom. So I'll let this one slide but will report all future instances. Making up an insult because you don't like people using short hand for the very valid ad-hom in which you demonstrate you are engaging, isn't cool and in this case is also against the forum rules.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #101 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Mexico must be creating loads of terrorists then because not only do you get checked and searched at the border, they have checkpoints at certain points within the border zone where you can get checked as well. They do on the California side as well. The difference of course is that guys on the California aren't part of the country's armed forces and carrying M-16's.

Well, according to the Stasi on that vid Canada see 1000 terrorists a year at that border alone...
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #102 of 374
Somewhat related story today... sad for state... A group of California students who dared to wear the American flag on Cinco de Mayo learned a hard lesson about the corruption of citizenship and sovereignty this week. They were sent home for their show of U.S. patriotism at school =>

Morgan Hill Students Stir Cinco De Mayo Controversy
http://www.ktvu.com/news/23470391/detail.html
MORGAN HILL, Calif. -- Five students at a South Bay high school stirred up some controversy Wednesday for wearing t-shirts depicting red, white and blue American flags on Cinco de Mayo. School officials at Live Oak High in Morgan Hill told the students they had to go home if they wouldnt turn the shirts inside out.
post #103 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

It couldn't be a case of PPD could it? I mean you only pointed out one side.

PPD appears to be your rallying cry for yourself. However, you would be wrong. I have called both sides out on these points when needed by my estimation. Your PPD syndrome seems to be something that you suffer more from than anyone you try to pin it on at this point as you clearly only call out "the other side" on anything. I even went back and reviewed some of the posts you made during your blackout period and found that you were attacking me when I had not said anything to you or concerning you. Clearly a man who abides by his own principles.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #104 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Well, according to the Stasi on that vid Canada see 1000 terrorists a year at that border alone...

Clearly he is right. They drill for oil in Canada and thus, it is a terrorist breeding ground.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #105 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Clearly he is right. They drill for oil in Canada and thus, it is a terrorist breeding ground.

I'm not surprised...at this rate I'm rapidly being bred as one myself....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #106 of 374
two thirds in Arizona support the new law.Arizona has a large hispanic population. Are all those hispanics racist too?


All figures come from the U.S. Census Bureau Report issued in June 2004

The Census Bureau defines ancestry as a person's ethnic origin, racial heritage, descent, or "roots," which may reflect their place of birth, place of birth of parents or ancestors, and ethnic identities that have evolved within the United States.




Arizona 2000 population of Arizona: 5,130,632 (2000 census)
Rank\tAncestry\t% of Population
1.\tMexican\t18
2.\tGerman\t15.6
3.\tEnglish\t10.4
4.\tIrish\t10.2
5.\tAmerican Indian\t6.1
Notes: Because of sampling error, the estimates in this table may not be significantly different from one another or from other ancestries not listed in this table.

People who reported two ancestries were included once in each category. Some groups correspond to groups identified separately in the race and Hispanic origin questions. The race item provides the primary source of data for White, Black, American Indian, Alaska Native, Asian groups, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander groups. The Hispanic-origin question is the primary identifier for Mexican, Puerto Rican, Cuban, and other Hispanic groups.

Source: U.S. Census Bureau, 1990 Census and Census 2000 special tabulations.
post #107 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

PPD appears to be your rallying cry for yourself. However, you would be wrong. I have called both sides out on these points when needed by my estimation. Your PPD syndrome seems to be something that you suffer more from than anyone you try to pin it on at this point as you clearly only call out "the other side" on anything. I even went back and reviewed some of the posts you made during your blackout period and found that you were attacking me when I had not said anything to you or concerning you. Clearly a man who abides by his own principles.

uh huh.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #108 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

You are aware that this applies to everyone. A Driver's License will not be enough to identify yourself as US citizen. Not even a social security card. This means if you do not carry a passport or a birth certificate you may be detained until you can produce evidence of your citizenship or legal immigration status. In reality it will hurt US citizens more than immigrants. A green card is no bigger than a driver's license how ever a passport or your birth certificate is not as easy to carry around.

Ever hear of a social security number? Easy to memorize. Police can put it in their computer to verify citizenship.
post #109 of 374
Holder Admits to Not Reading Arizona's Immigration Law Despite Criticizing It

I doubt he's the only critic of the bill who hasn't even read it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #110 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Holder Admits to Not Reading Arizona's Immigration Law Despite Criticizing It

I doubt he's the only critic of the bill who hasn't even read it.

True, but in fairness to AG Holder, he's never read the U.S. Constitution either... Andy McCarthy makes the case that Holder is profiling Arizonans:

"He hasn’t read the Arizona immigration law, even though reading the law is the basic duty of any lawyer (let alone the U.S. Attorney General) who is called on to assess a legal situation. Thus, he hasn’t got reasonable suspicion that Arizonans are violating the Constitution, even though reasonable suspicion is the basic investigative standard we expect law-enforcement to satisfy before officials harass Americans with stepped up scrutiny…"

http://corner.nationalreview.com/pos...UzNmVhMDVkM2I=
post #111 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Ever hear of a social security number? Easy to memorize. Police can put it in their computer to verify citizenship.

And now the news:
A person does not have to be a US citizen to have a US social security number.
yes I want oil genocide.
Reply
yes I want oil genocide.
Reply
post #112 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

And now the news:
A person does not have to be a US citizen to have a US social security number.

http://ssa.gov/pubs/10096.html

But you do have to be a legal immigrant to get one.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #113 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

http://ssa.gov/pubs/10096.html

But you do have to be a legal immigrant to get one.

Noah,

Your reference doesn't quite agree with you.

You need to have work authorization in order to get an SSN. You can get work authorization without being an immigrant. You can also be an illegal immigrant with a valid SSN and no work authorization (someone who over stays their work authorization). There are also other exceptions that allow non-citizens to get an SSN (for instance, a surviving spouse/child may be entitled to state benefits and require an SSN to be able to receive them).
post #114 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilt View Post

Noah,

Your reference doesn't quite agree with you.

You need to have work authorization in order to get an SSN. You can get work authorization without being an immigrant. You can also be an illegal immigrant with a valid SSN and no work authorization (someone who over stays their work authorization). There are also other exceptions that allow non-citizens to get an SSN (for instance, a surviving spouse/child may be entitled to state benefits and require an SSN to be able to receive them).

Just because it is possible to illegally get a SSN or keep it does not mean that there are not ways for those illegal numbers to be marked as such. If one was to overstay their work authorization for example the number could be marked as invalid or expired in the system. You cannot get a number legally, and in the system without going through legal channels.

Also, if you are getting hung up on the word immigrant, don't. The important word is legal.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #115 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Also, if you are getting hung up on the word immigrant, don't. The important word is legal.

Really?
yes I want oil genocide.
Reply
yes I want oil genocide.
Reply
post #116 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

And now the news:
A person does not have to be a US citizen to have a US social security number.

If they have a SS #, chances are they are here legally anyway. All a US citizen has to do to prove to the police they are legal, is provide their SS #, should they not happen to be carrying any other ID card.
post #117 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

If they have a SS #, chances are they are here legally anyway. All a US citizen has to do to prove to the police they are legal, is provide their SS #, should they not happen to be carrying any other ID card.

I don't believe the police can obtain legal status based on SSN. There are a lot of restrictions on the use of the numbers. There is also a large fraud problem.

http://www.justice.gov/opcl/privstat.htm

"(b) Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it."

Even Homeland Security (where the immigration status would be located) has restriction on the use of the numbers.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/p...ide_2007-2.pdf

Noah, I never posted anything about legality of an SSN. I was just trying to show that the use of an SSN for determining legal status is quite problematic.
post #118 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilt View Post

I don't believe the police can obtain legal status based on SSN. There are a lot of restrictions on the use of the numbers. There is also a large fraud problem.

http://www.justice.gov/opcl/privstat.htm

"(b) Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it."

Even Homeland Security (where the immigration status would be located) has restriction on the use of the numbers.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/p...ide_2007-2.pdf

Noah, I never posted anything about legality of an SSN. I was just trying to show that the use of an SSN for determining legal status is quite problematic.

Of course someone can refuse to give a police officer their SS#. They can also be held indefinitely until their identity is verified. The scenario posed was what if one does not carry any form of ID. In such a case, said person would gladly give the officer their SS#, in order to be on their way, unless, of course, they are here illegally.
post #119 of 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilt View Post

I don't believe the police can obtain legal status based on SSN. There are a lot of restrictions on the use of the numbers. There is also a large fraud problem.

http://www.justice.gov/opcl/privstat.htm

"(b) Any Federal, State or local government agency which requests an individual to disclose his social security account number shall inform that individual whether that disclosure is mandatory or voluntary, by what statutory or other authority such number is solicited, and what uses will be made of it."

Even Homeland Security (where the immigration status would be located) has restriction on the use of the numbers.

http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/p...ide_2007-2.pdf

Noah, I never posted anything about legality of an SSN. I was just trying to show that the use of an SSN for determining legal status is quite problematic.

I agree that there is not a good system in place now to use the SSN for identification. Fraud in the Soc Sec system is a huge issue that the government should be more actively combating. However, that system is already in place and would be, I believe, a good starting place for such a system.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #120 of 374
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Of course someone can refuse to give a police officer their SS#. They can also be held indefinitely until their identity is verified. The scenario posed was what if one does not carry any form of ID. In such a case, said person would gladly give the officer their SS#, in order to be on their way, unless, of course, they are here illegally.

Typing a name into their cruiser computer and immediately seeing if the person had a driver's license or any other official photo ID would be too hard, I understand.
SS# is much better because it has no picture or fingerprints associated with it and if a person simply by luck makes one up that exists he can just go... it could be yours, stevegmu??? WTF.
yes I want oil genocide.
Reply
yes I want oil genocide.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Arizona = Arian Zone