Police investigating Gizmodo's iPhone prototype story - Page 8

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'Violating rights?' 'Thievery?' You now this how? Are you a lawyer with knowledge of facts of the case (and no ax to grind), or are you simply making an assertion? If the latter, stop. (I am not saying you'll be -- or, for that matter, I'll be -- proved wrong ultimately, but just making bland assertions again and again does nothing to make a case).

Stereotypes sure are fun. "The greatest generation" was a book by, I believe Tom Brokaw, about his fathers generation and their service in world war 2. A stereotype started back then was satirized by groundskeeper Willie in the Simpsons as "cheese eating surrender monkeys". I am quite certain that stereotype wasn't the truth of the matter, and I think the same of your comment (which was devoid of any satire).

You really think the DA or Apple want a headline from going after a media co?

Of course I am speculating... we all are based on what we have read. This will be for the courts to decide what rights were violated... if any.

I don't think they are ridiculous. If anything there are more people giving Gizmodo the benefit of the doubt than they deserve.

The reason for all the "hate" against Gizmodo is that they are all colossal jerks and have behaved like spoiled kids (with a potty mouth to boot), for years now. Also, whenever they performed one of their "hi-jinks" they usually got people defending them saying that they were basically good kids etc., so you can't say people haven't in general given them a break even when they didn't deserve it.

If someone with impeccable moral credentials makes a mistake like this (buying stolen goods, exposing trade secrets etc.), simply because they don't understand the law, and then apologises profusely, they probably wouldn't get into any trouble at all.

Gizmodo on the other hand has a horrible record morally speaking and they've done similar things in the past. They did this particular deed on purpose, in full knowledge of how wrong it was, and then thumbed their noses at everyone concerned. They were smug about it. They were mean about it. They blamed others for their own crimes. They covered up the identity of the original thief. They blamed the Apple employee who was the chief victim of the crime.

Ask any judge. The law is supposed to be blind, but if you dance around like an idiot thumbing your noses at the cops and generally acting like an a-hole, you are far more likely to get the book thrown at you than the guy respectfully standing up for what he believes.

industrial espionage is no joke in Silicon Valley. it is a very serious matter. prototypes in testing are extremely valuable and legitimate trade secrets.

Gawker/Giz's pose that it's all just a hype/game reflects so well the prevailing immaturity of much of the web. as if everything is a high school prank.

what, me busted?

yup.

DrBenway, Dr No, and BobDobbs are all the same person.

All perma-banned now.

a quote from the NYT article today ...

<Stephen Wagstaffe, San Mateo Countys chief deputy district attorney, explained that if there is any case that arises out of our office at this point the police have not submitted for prosecution. He added: We certainly know about what happened here in Redwood City regarding the missing iPhone, and we are the jurisdiction for any legal prosecutions that could come out of the episode.>

If he going to continue trolling would you please post the email addresses he's used to register. Really, I only need the very first one.

I don't think either worry about the headline of going after a media company. I did originally think Apple would rather not have a constant reminder of having an Apple ninja unmasked but I'm starting to have my doubts.

He'll probably finally go when his parents take him off restriction but we'll have to put up with his hissy fits till then.

With that much hostility and rancor I have to assume he never had decent parents... or he's just plain psycho and has killed them. I'm sure his computer time in the sanitarium will be over shortly.

If this was a petty theft from a mom & pop store on the corner, I'd agree. But it was hardly a petty theft and Apple is hardly a small mom & pop store. Apple is a huge corporation that pays BIG taxes. If they want something throughly investigated, I assure you, it will get investigated.

And, no, a criminal complaint wouldn't necessarily be made public. Particularly not until the investigation was complete.

Mark

I think a sanitarium is too good for him.

Absolutely! Gawker is the "National Enquirer" of the web. And the National Enquirer finds themselves in high-profile lawsuits on a regular basis.

How can so many of you be forgetting about Think Secret?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-9836575-2.html

Apple shut them down and I don't believe Apple would hesitate for a moment in going after Gawker. Gawker's founder, Nick Denton, smugly bragged about how they would use checkbook journalism to get a story. I expect Apple is going to use their substantially larger checkbook to get Gawker.

Mark

Here's one attorney's take on the situation. I came across the link to the article this afternoon, long after I had posted my armchair analysis earlier in this thread. I feel my thoughts are pretty much identical to what this attorney has to say about the situation.

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/04/23/deter...e-lost-iphone/

Yeah, she admits up front she isn't an attorney in California. But she researched California law and I'm pretty confident she has good legal understanding of the situation.

BTW, I wonder why Gawker Media isn't linking articles like that one on the Gizmodo website?

Mark

Lots of people have brought it up before. And, some of us have noted that ThinkSecret was a low-budget dorm-room operation by a couple of undergrads, and that perhaps Gawker/Gizmodo is a slightly different cup of tea.

Frankly, I had never really looked at Gizmodo (except randomly) until this story broke, and I have to say that they have a lot of very useful Mac/Apple-related info and insights on their site. I was pleasantly surprised. Other than for an all-too-common tongue-in-cheekiness (endemic to tech writers on the web, basically all trying to sound a macho to their fellow-geeks), I find nothing particularly odious about them.

In fact, the quality of many of their comments is far better than sites such as engadget.com or cnet.com. So is the quality of their writing. I must admit that I have concluded it is a site that I will go back to (not as regularly as AI, but perhaps more so than the others).

All of you are pissed that Giz ruined the surprise. They bought that phone not knowing if it truly was an iPhone. They didn't hide the fact that they had it. And promptly returned it when it was asked for. Pics of phones get leaked all the time. I saw pics of the Droid, Nexus One, and the EVO months before they were officially announced. No one screamed bloody murder then so what's the difference now? Stop being a bunch of babies.

BTW doesn't the name AppleInsider suggest that this website gets "inside" information on Apple related products and news. That's the reason we all visit this site or did initially. Now that the mother of all inside Apple news comes out you're all up in arms. You're all hypocrites

No. People are not pissed that Giz ruined the surprise. People are pissed at the way Giz acted and spoke. Giz and its owner seem to think that "journalism" is an excuse for criminal activity.

I learned not to take things that belong to others when I was in Kindergarden. Giz needs to go back to school to learn the basics of life in a civilized world.

Why do you think breaking the law is in the interest of consumers?

No thought....None whatsoever. Anyone should be allowed to do anything that they want.

You are awfully brassy throwing out glorious generalizations like that - and I suppose we will be treated to a round of raspberries from you and something on the order of "well you are were generalizing too, so there!" adolescent neener-neener stuff, or the like. You have only the un-corroborated claim from them that that was the case - like us you simply don't know. Those pics of the Droid, Nexus One and EVO weren't leaked they were released for viral publicity, which did them just worlds of good now didn't it? If you can't tell the difference, then you practice a level of ignorance or denial that is truly awe-inspiring and at odds with your previously claimed knowledge of the situation. Just stop. I'm actually embarrassed for you - and I don't embarrass easily. Everyone is entitled their own opinion, it's just reality that all opinions don't deserve the same regard or respect. This time, put your assumptions back in the oven for a while - and let them bake until they're DONE and not half-baked.

If I were to put the best face on this - and I am on record herein about my general disregard for Gizmodo as any sort of "news source", (after clear demonstrations of painfully arrested adolescence in a number of public venues about which they boasted gleefully without regret) - they are at BEST a vaguely "newsy" form of entertainment, with bits of helpful hints and other generally innocuous stuff. Not Pulitzer prize material. Not even the BOBs really, but they could be close to being in the running for that. Just occasionally amusing, generally snarky, and unabashedly attempting to be edgy and cool in the tech blog world. Certainly better than truly bad sources like Thurrott, Enderle and the ever grumpy Dvorak. BUt just because the pig stinks less than the other pigs doesn't make it a unicorn.

POINTS?? Seriously??? Get off the high horse dude. That is just so much crap I can't believe you actually took time to type it. NO ONE in here has forgotten they are consumers - nearly every contributor here has laid claim to that role repeatedly since I've throwing things into the mix here, so FAIL that statement entirely with gusto AND chips. Not one of us has come in here and claimed *dreamy distracted and disconnected voice* I AM APPLE! I LOVE MYSELF FOR ALL MY COOLNESS. I CAN DO NO WRONG!

FIne you don't like large companies - perhaps a latent anti-authority attitude. Maybe a touch of "they will be the first ones up against the wall when the revolution comes!" We get that but don't even throw stuff like that out here - some of Apple's most ardent critics (and some really insane people) are lurking here and aren't afraid to call them out. But you have to ignore that to make your statement.

Its this country of wussies thats embarrassing. This is how journalism is and will be. Get a story at all cost. We all visited their page. Its a cut throat business where do gooders rarely survive. Giz probably got more hurs this week than they do all year. So if leaked photos is good for Moto and HTC is good then why isn't leaked photos of the iPhone good for Apple? And yes they were leaked, it really doesn't matter who took and posted them.

I really wish some of you would listen to your nonsense. People steal/find things all the time. Beginning with Steve Jobs and the Xerox UI he stole. Oh yeah he compensated them just like we paid compensated the indians for Manhattan. We live in a stolen land, and had a president that stole 2 elections, Do you really think only Giz would've acted that way? Giz was probably the only one with the balls to investigate and it paid off. Nothing is gonna happen to them except not get invited to any Apple events. Big deal. There are still many tech companies that will have them.

Neither was a company called Psystar. Your point? Also here is New York's law on this matter (Section 155.00 Larceny):

Larceny includes a wrongful taking, obtaining or withholding of another's property, with the intent prescribed in subdivision one of this section, committed in any of the following ways:

(a) By conduct heretofore defined or known as common law larceny by trespassory taking, common law larceny by trick, embezzlement, or obtaining property by false pretenses;

(b) By acquiring lost property.

A person acquires lost property when he exercises control over property of another which he knows to have been lost or mislaid, or to have been delivered under a mistake as to the identity of the recipient or the nature or amount of the property, without taking reasonable measures to return such property to the owner.

Section 155.30 Grand Larceny in the fourth degree.
3. The property consists of secret scientific material;

Grand larceny in the fourth degree is a class E felony.

Fun times ahead

You're right. So what? It doesn't matter where they live. If they broke the law in CA, then they can be charged (and convicted if supported by evidence) in CA. Your argument is akin to robbing a bank in CA and then fleeing to NY and claiming that CA can't do anything about it.

Not to mention, of course, that if you use the NY argument, Gizmodo loses double because transporting stolen property across state lines makes it a FEDERAL crime.


It IS illegal in both states. The definition of theft in both NY and CA derives from American Common Law which further derives from British Common Law - and the definitions are nearly identical.

More importantly, your attempt to bring NY into it only hurt your client further. NY law is much clearer on what constitutes misappropriation of trade secrets:
http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...s-law-new-york

So not only did you get your client charged and convicted for purchase of stolen property, you just added on additional penalties for misappropriation of trade secrets. Congratulations.



http://law.onecle.com/new-york/penal...45_165.45.html

You're welcome.


One doesn't need to file a stolen property report for it to be a crime. If you're on vacation and the police catch someone breaking into your house and stealing your TV, they can be charged even though you hadn't filed a stolen property report. Same thing applies here (although I'm sure Apple will file a report if that's necessary to prosecute and if they choose to prosecute).

Don't worry - Apple's lawyers and San Mateo County's lawyers are undoubtedly far more skilled in the practice of the law than you are. They'll know the procedure.


I think there might be some truth to that. Gizmodo offered a large reward. Someone just happens to be hanging around a bar frequented by Apple employees. The person who 'finds' the phone just happens to think to call Gizmodo - not CBS or Time Magazine or The National Enquirer. Gizmodo - undoubtedly the first name in journalism that most people think of.


The entire thing stinks:
First, the claim that Apple has lost nothing is wrong. Apple maintains strict secrecy about their prototypes in order to avoid giving the competition a head start. That is worth millions of dollars. Want to bet that youre now going to see a dramatic increase in the number of phones with front facing cameras?
I love the claim that Gizmodo didnt know it was an Apple phone. Do you think they go around paying people $5,000 every time someone calls them and says I found a phone. Its not working now, but it looks kind of neat?
Then we get into the law. Under CA law (ever other state, for that matter), this clearly involves grand theft and receiving of stolen property. The law is crystal clear and both the finder and Gizmodo broke the law. Their attempt to contact Apple was laughably feeble. Do you really think that someone who has enough technical knowledge to have contacted Gizmodo as their first choice would have expected AppleCare to be able to get the phone back to its owner? How many times a day do you think iphones get lost. What do you expect AppleCare to do when you call and say I found a lost iPhone?
Under CA law, not to mention normal morality which applies not only to the finder, but to Gizmodo, they should have made a REAL attempt to get the phone back to Apple. They knew the owners name and facebook page. The owner called repeatedly that night and they refused to answer the phone. They never turned it over to the bar or to police. They never mailed it to Apple. They never called Apple HQ (which would have been about 20,000 times more logical than calling AppleCare).
Finally, the whole scenario suggests that the entire story is not out there yet. Are we to believe that Gizmodo offers a large reward for info on Apple products, then someone happens to be innocently hanging out in a bar frequented by Apple employees, then they find a prototype phone, and then the first person they think of calling is Gizmodo? Not CBS or the National Inquirer or Time Magazine or anyone else? Oh, yes Gizmodo is obviously the first thing people think of for national news.
The suggestiont that it is reasonable and ethical for Gizmodo to encourage theft of private property (by offering the reward in the first place) and then pay for stolen property all in the interests of journalism is reprehensible.

You are wrong to assume everyone here is "pissed" because the surprise was ruined. What people are passionate about is the questionable method by which Giz got the scoop.


Look up the concept of poetic license.


What Giz had was not the mother of all Apple news... hardly. Actually, their method of obtaining this news has eclipsed what you call the "mother of all Apple news."

Speaking of nonsense: if the guys at Giz are your heroes... I would hate to see the rest of your world view. Oh, I think I just did.

You may have had a point if you didn't use an example that wasn't stealing in any since of the word. How about Jobs lying to Woz about what a job paid? How about all the underhanded things companies have done over the years using other people's IP illegally knowing that, if caught, the punishment will be less than the cost of not using it?

I'm really surprised people are so worked up about this as it doesn't directly affect you. Both are businesses trying to make money the best way possible. So what if Apple sued them? So what if Giz loses? Giz is taking a chance and they thought it would pay out? It's not that big a deal to anyone but them.

I think people are worked up because some of us perceive a wrong to have been committed and react to this. Tragic is the day when all people (society) stand by and say nothing to an affront real or perceived.

Tragic is the day when all people (society) become enraged over something trivial, especially when based on limited data and without looking at the big picture.

Seriously! There are people that won't read Giz now, yet when Apple or Jobs was accused of a crime that meant nothing. Apple looks to be the victim here, but they are from being squeaky clean so all I'm reading is hypocrisy.

It's all business. Giz/Gawker contacted lawyers to see if and how they could handle it, then they had their accountants run the numbers to see if it would be worth their while. You don't think Apple and other companies that we pride do the exact same thing?

Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Business woman on plane: Are there a lot of these kinds of accidents?
Narrator: You wouldn't believe.
Business woman on plane: Which car company do you work for?
Narrator: A major one.

I'm a bit worked up about it because the attitudes and opinions of some of these Gizmodo defenders/Apple haters could be some of the same folks I'd have to serve on a jury panel with some day. Talk about an exercise in frustration! Trying to reach a consensus that's based upon THE LAW when someone on the panel insists on going with "finders keepers, losers weepers". This is why there should be an intelligence test required to serve on a jury panel.

Fortunately, I also believe that most of that crowd posting here are in grade school so, hopefully, it wouldn't really be an issue.

Mark

Nick Denton's (Gawker founder) twitter page was alive with activity about their iPhone scoop starting on Monday. He was tweeting like crazy. That is, right up until the criminal investigation was announced on Friday. No tweets and only two retweets since that time and neither of them had anything to do with the iPhone:

http://twitter.com/nicknotned

The cat still has Nick's tongue.

If he gets arrested, do you think they'll take his phone as part of the investigation? Might be some juicy stuff on there!

Mark

I don't think people have become "enraged" over this... seems more like people are just speaking their mind based on the available data.


I chose long ago to avoid that site as it added nothing to the quality of my life in any way whatsoever... in fact, I found the writing less than competent and simply annoying.


Others have said this, I'll repeat it: our reaction has nothing to do with Apple. Some of us believe a crime may have been committed and would speak out the same way regardless of the players involved. This just happens to be an Apple related forum, and this particular incident involves an Apple employee and Apple trade secret.

That is classic... in a profoundly disturbing sort of way!

Acted and spoke? Or the way they think?

It depends entirely upon the law in question.

IMO, the public's right to know facts usually trumps a private, profit-seeking motive to keep secrets.

And at this point, nobody has even been charged with breaking the law, except by a bunch of armchair lawyers. When the DA decides to indict, then maybe the charges will have some credibility. When the jury decides to convict, then "breaking the law" will be more than what it is now: Idle Speculation.