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Apple's iPad camera adapter supports USB audio, keyboards - Page 3

post #81 of 107
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Originally Posted by Damn_Its_Hot View Post

My daughter saw my post and said I was out of date - happens to the best of us I guess.

Peace. Keep on truckin!

P.S. Would it have been to oldster to say "what a rush man"?

far out dude !!

this is a game changer
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post #82 of 107
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Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Bitchin'!

bad
dude bad !!

any ludes around ??
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post #83 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

I'm hoping Apple comes out with either a compact version of GarageBand or Logic (Logic Lite anyone?) for ipad and a MIDI adapter. Can you imagine Apple's version of either a control surface, or a sheet music app with built-in syth functions. Would be great.

Yes, a garageband mobile (just for recording and easy midi-editing, only using simple effects.. ) together with a usb-interface would actually make me sell my macbook. I'd do the major editing on the MacPro but all "on the field"-recording on the iPad.. that would be great. Ahh, one can always dream ;D
post #84 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by psychobass213 View Post

Somebody needs to test out a USB audio interface! I kind of doubt it will work because of drivers etc, but if I had some way to get an Xlr mic signal into this thing I would be in heaven. I do on location recordings often and I usually need only 1 mic for voiceovers, if I could ditch the laptop and just take my iPad, a small interface, mic and stand, it would make my life so much easier.

I'm with ya in this one. A good USB mic would be great (with a headphone out for latency issues) would be ideal.
There is a workaround though. The Blue Mikey 2 being released in summer has a line in port. Concievably you could use a small portable mixer and take the line out from that into the Mikey.
Just an idea.
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post #85 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by swnsn View Post

RAWs will be downloaded to the ipad. if the raw format isn't supported then it will still be available to your computer upon sync, just not viewable.

How are we supposed to know which raw formats are and are not supported? I've read that .NEF raw files are supported, but when i tried emailing myself one taken with a D5000 all the ipad displays is a tiny thumbnail in the middle of the screen.
post #86 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory Bauer View Post

How are we supposed to know which raw formats are and are not supported? I've read that .NEF raw files are supported, but when i tried emailing myself one taken with a D5000 all the ipad displays is a tiny thumbnail in the middle of the screen.

Maybe emailing them aren't supported, just storing them so they can be uploaded to iPhoto or other photo apps.

I brought my camera and MBP to an Apple Store today and was going to spend the $30 for the accessory to run every possible test I could think of, but they still didn't have any in stock. I even checked Radio Shack, also in the mall, and they didn't have any USB couplers in stock. I get brownie points for trying, right?
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post #87 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) What you're suggesting with pre-amps and MIDI is not even close to the primary intention for this device and will only be used by a very small fraction of those buying iPads.

2) The iPad isn't a regular computer.

3) The iPad isn't designed to be a replacement for your laptop or they would not have required syncing to iTunes before you can use the thing.

4) The iPad does allow USB signaling, what it doesn't have is a big ass USB-A port. Why you think this is necessary to make it useful is illogical.

5) Adapters aren't pricey. I've already pointed out a coupler "for these pre-amps and MIDIs" that is only $1.80 (actually it's only $1.13 on Monoprice).

6) How do you think DJs who use iPods use them? They buy a cheap adapter or they buy a machine with an iPod Dock Connector built-in. The latter being the most common.

7) Your argument is the same as when Apple removed the serial and parallel port in favour of USB, expect people actually had a plethora of accessories back then that required those cables and couldn't be resolved by very few that need them with a $1.13 coupler.

8) If the iPad has an "inny" then the device has to have to an "outy" (ie: it's a dock for the iPad) or they use a cable to connect (ie: so why not the cable that came with the iPad).

9) You doubt there would be a problem with fitting a USB port to the iPad but you haven't supplied any specs to show that the USB-A port which is about 2x the height of the iPod Dock Connector could fit well on the edge of the iPad without causing a problem. Note that 30-pin connector is designed for a snug fit with two hooks on the edges. You can't use USB-B (which is even thicker), micro-USB or mini-USB because you'd then need an adapter.


It's backwards thinking to say that Apple couldn't put a USB port on the iPad because there isn't the room. Just because it wasn't designed to accommodate one doesn't mean it couldn't have been, or shouldn't. I'm a fanboi, but to not have made a space concession the size of a pea in one corner to have one is, to me, giving the critics valid ammo.

I have a Wacom Intuous tablet that would make a fine casing size for a tablet, and it has two ports.
post #88 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by boomhowler View Post

Yes, a garageband mobile (just for recording and easy midi-editing, only using simple effects.. ) together with a usb-interface would actually make me sell my macbook. I'd do the major editing on the MacPro but all "on the field"-recording on the iPad.. that would be great. Ahh, one can always dream ;D

I don't do audio recording at other than a very, very amateur level, so I may be wrong, but isn't decent audio recording fairly CPU intensive - particular wrt latency?

If so, I just can't see the iPad doing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

It's backwards thinking to say that Apple couldn't put a USB port on the iPad because there isn't the room. Just because it wasn't designed to accommodate one doesn't mean it couldn't have been, or shouldn't. I'm a fanboi, but to not have made a space concession the size of a pea in one corner to have one is, to me, giving the critics valid ammo.

I have a Wacom Intuous tablet that would make a fine casing size for a tablet, and it has two ports.

Once again, you just don't get it. There are tradeoffs to any engineering design. Apple decided to include only those items that are needed for this 'media consumption device'. As soon as you start arbitrarily adding ports, where do you stop? Maybe someone needs 2 USB ports. Or 3. Someone else wants an SD slot. Then, you get the people with CF cameras who want a CF slot. Or why not a parallel port - since some printers still require that. We have some electronic equipment that requires a serial port, so better include that, too. Pretty soon, you've doubled the weight, cut the battery life in half, and reduced the structural rigidity by 60%.

It's not that it would have been impossible to include a USB port - a mini USB port doesn't take much space. It's just that the tradeoffs aren't worth it. What is the average iPad user going to do that requires USB? Absolutely nothing - it was designed to make use of WiFi for everything.

Hard Disks? Not needed - iPad has no user-accessible file system
Printers - use WiFi
Cameras - use WiFi or Camera connection kit
video out - cable available
Audio in/out - mic/headphone jack
videocam - will plug into 30 pin port when available

Then there's the added problem. If you put a USB port in, people start plugging in everything in sight - and wonder why it doesn't work. 99% of the time, they'd blame it on the iPad. It's not meant to be a full blown computer.
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post #89 of 107
edit: Pipped by jragosta.
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post #90 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by ranum View Post

Bump for an answer.

I wouldn't bank on it, but you never know.

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My wife won't use an iPad if the only data connection is wireless. (Don't ask. Please.)

If your first name is Marcus it's probably because she has listened to you too much over the years
post #91 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Can you point us to a site that backs this up? According to Apple the "iPad and the Camera Connection Kit support standard photo formats, including JPEG and RAW.". Using the word "support " in reference to the iPad for RAW would be false advertising if it did not, in fact, support RAW, but only JPEG. And the fact that it asks you to delete the images afterwards makes for a very bad experience if uses think the iPad now stores the original photos.

Fair enough, but even if it copies the RAW file over to the iPad I'd wager it is still displaying the embedded JPEG vs. interpreting and rendering the RAW file.
post #92 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Fair enough, but even if it copies the RAW file over to the iPad I'd wager it is still displaying the embedded JPEG vs. interpreting and rendering the RAW file.

That is what I'd expect, too. Which is fine. The only way this is a problem for consumers is if they loose the original RAW file when they delete the contents of the memory card.

Now, will it copy AVIs and other video formats? I tried to run this through its paces yesterday but they didn't have any in stock.

With APIs allowing access to the 30-pin connector there is no reason why a 3rd-party, like any of these camera companies, can't make an app for the iPad for their devices.
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post #93 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The only thing I can think of is the USB cable that comes with iPad is limited in functionality, but since it's already used for power and for syncing everything should be working already. These FAQ, as well as Apple's site, llead me to believe it should be possible.
http://obamapacman.com/2010/04/apple...ook-video-faq/

There is more to it than that. The iPad probably only acts as a device. The camera kit dongle obviously allows it to act as a host so that it can connect to devices (such as cameras). There is obviously more in the brick than a simple pass-through - and if a simple cable would have cut it, why wouldn't they just have shipped one?
post #94 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

There is more to it than that. The iPad probably only acts as a device. The camera kit dongle obviously allows it to act as a host so that it can connect to devices (such as cameras). There is obviously more in the brick than a simple pass-through - and if a simple cable would have cut it, why wouldn't they just have shipped one?

I haven't seen any evidence of that. What is different about the way USB signaling works on the iPod/iPhone/iPad USB cable than on the camere accessory kit?

Note that Apple sells a lot of extra cables that aren't included with machines that are merely passthrough cables that only change the port shape and pins.
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post #95 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I haven't seen any evidence of that. What is different about the way USB signaling works on the iPod/iPhone/iPad USB cable than on the camere accessory kit?

Something is different. I can attest to that, since I have tried the direct connection method and found that it doesn't work.
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post #96 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlandd View Post

It's backwards thinking to say that Apple couldn't put a USB port on the iPad because there isn't the room. Just because it wasn't designed to accommodate one doesn't mean it couldn't have been, or shouldn't.

But they did accommodate - there is the adaptor for those that really need it.

Quote:
I'm a fanboi, but to not have made a space concession the size of a pea in one corner to have one is, to me, giving the critics valid ammo.

How do you know the space concession is the size of a pea? Obviously it isn't or the camera adaptor would be smaller (because we know that Apple is known for making things unnecessarily large).

Aside from the physical space of the USB port, there are electronics that go with it.

It's like every other "feature" that Apple left off. There is a minority that wants it, it otherwise detracts from the device, so the "tyranny of the minority" will not dictate the overall design of the device and they left it off. They did provide the camera adaptor, which seems to have far more functionality that just hooking up to cameras.

Quote:
I have a Wacom Intuous tablet that would make a fine casing size for a tablet, and it has two ports.

And it's not battery powered, nor a general purpose computing device. Nor do it's edges taper down like the iPad - and it's a significant design feature that contributes to the overall attractiveness of the device.
post #97 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I haven't seen any evidence of that.

Go read the USB spec. For starters, host devices have to have a CPU

Now granted, the iPad has a CPU, but it's highly doubtful that the electronics in the iPad that do USB over the dock connector know how to do anything other than be a device.

I thought someone took apart the original iPod camera connector and determined there was more in there than a simple pass through?

Hmm, I might take mine iPod camera connector apart since I doubt I will ever use it again. And no, it doesn't work with the iPad (yes, I tried )
post #98 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Note that Apple sells a lot of extra cables that aren't included with machines that are merely passthrough cables that only change the port shape and pins.

I think you just proved my point - if it was as simple as a cable, they would have just sold such a cable since they do sell other passthrough cables.

Again, what are you implying here? That Apple is up to no good? I have yet to see them do something that didn't have a legitimate reason and I doubt they would start on an iPad USB port connector.
post #99 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Fair enough, but even if it copies the RAW file over to the iPad I'd wager it is still displaying the embedded JPEG vs. interpreting and rendering the RAW file.

I hope it works the same way as iPhoto on desktop, which does store it as RAW. There is an icon at the bottom of the window that indicates that it is a RAW image.

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post #100 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I thought someone took apart the original iPod camera connector and determined there was more in there than a simple pass through?

Are my posts in this thread invisible or something? We already know that it's more than a simple pass through.
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post #101 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Millmoss View Post

Something is different. I can attest to that, since I have tried the direct connection method and found that it doesn't work.

You mentioned that yesterday, and I believe you, but I don't believe that it means you have to buy Apple's accessory simply because there is a limitation that we don't yet understand.

Is it a limitation of the supplied cable or is there s a chip in the camera kit accessories? If the latter, can this be easily copied and sold for cheap by sites like Monoprice?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Go read the USB spec. For starters, host devices have to have a CPU

Now granted, the iPad has a CPU, but it's highly doubtful that the electronics in the iPad that do USB over the dock connector know how to do anything other than be a device.

I thought someone took apart the original iPod camera connector and determined there was more in there than a simple pass through?

Hmm, I might take mine iPod camera connector apart since I doubt I will ever use it again. And no, it doesn't work with the iPad (yes, I tried )

I'm not going to read the USB spec. It will answer absolutely no question I have about importing images and video onto the iPad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I think you just proved my point - if it was as simple as a cable, they would have just sold such a cable since they do sell other passthrough cables.

Again, what are you implying here? That Apple is up to no good? I have yet to see them do something that didn't have a legitimate reason and I doubt they would start on an iPad USB port connector.

Apple selling a cable to connect to other cameras with various cables attachments and SD cards makes no sense. The setup they sell makes the most sense. These can go in your camera bag quite easily as they aren't much bigger than an SD card.

I'm implying that I don't know how the camera kit works and what its limitations are. As previously noted I've tried to figure it out but without having the accessory in hand it's simply not possible to run an iPad and cameras though all the necessary tests.
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post #102 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You mentioned that yesterday, and I believe you, but I don't believe that it means you have to buy Apple's accessory simply because there is a limitation that we don't yet understand.

Is it a limitation of the supplied cable or is there s a chip in the camera kit accessories? If the latter, can this be easily copied and sold for cheap by sites like Monoprice?

I don't know about that. Nobody does yet. I am only saying that the simple pass-through question should be answered. It's been tested and does not work. We also know that the iPod camera kit does not work on the iPad. So whatever Apple has done here, it's probably not standard and off-the-shelf.
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post #103 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I don't do audio recording at other than a very, very amateur level, so I may be wrong, but isn't decent audio recording fairly CPU intensive - particular wrt latency?

If so, I just can't see the iPad doing that.



Once again, you just don't get it. There are tradeoffs to any engineering design. Apple decided to include only those items that are needed for this 'media consumption device'. As soon as you start arbitrarily adding ports, where do you stop? Maybe someone needs 2 USB ports. Or 3. Someone else wants an SD slot. Then, you get the people with CF cameras who want a CF slot. Or why not a parallel port - since some printers still require that. We have some electronic equipment that requires a serial port, so better include that, too. Pretty soon, you've doubled the weight, cut the battery life in half, and reduced the structural rigidity by 60%.

It's not that it would have been impossible to include a USB port - a mini USB port doesn't take much space. It's just that the tradeoffs aren't worth it. What is the average iPad user going to do that requires USB? Absolutely nothing - it was designed to make use of WiFi for everything.

Hard Disks? Not needed - iPad has no user-accessible file system
Printers - use WiFi
Cameras - use WiFi or Camera connection kit
video out - cable available
Audio in/out - mic/headphone jack
videocam - will plug into 30 pin port when available

Then there's the added problem. If you put a USB port in, people start plugging in everything in sight - and wonder why it doesn't work. 99% of the time, they'd blame it on the iPad. It's not meant to be a full blown computer.



No, I get it. My points are mostly these two: I have a drawer full of Apple adapters that I now can't use for anything, some of them not very old. If Apple is going to have features accessible by another adapter they'd have created some better will by including it.

Secondly, yes, I'm aware of the literal difference between my Intuous and a tablet, but Apple's form-over-function struggle to create a cardboard thin MacBook Air only succeeded in showing they could do it. I just chuckle at the "We'll make it thinner!!!" cry from R & D. I've ued both Lenovo and Archos tablets and while the iPad interface and touch response is far superior, there wasn't anything about the others that required shaving anything off their dimensions before I'd consider them. The "paper thin or nothing" creed just rubs me as a misguided use of design talent, that's all.

The "where would all the port adding stop" argument is silly. They chose none. I would have liked one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

But they did accommodate - there is the adaptor for those that really need it.



How do you know the space concession is the size of a pea? Obviously it isn't or the camera adaptor would be smaller (because we know that Apple is known for making things unnecessarily large).

Aside from the physical space of the USB port, there are electronics that go with it.

It's like every other "feature" that Apple left off. There is a minority that wants it, it otherwise detracts from the device, so the "tyranny of the minority" will not dictate the overall design of the device and they left it off. They did provide the camera adaptor, which seems to have far more functionality that just hooking up to cameras.



And it's not battery powered, nor a general purpose computing device. Nor do it's edges taper down like the iPad - and it's a significant design feature that contributes to the overall attractiveness of the device.

BTW, my Intuous sure does have tapered edges, at least two : )

But I agree that Apple is merely saying "This is what it is" and making a niche product, and it's not defined by what it doesn't have.
post #104 of 107
Here is a little more information on the iPad's capabilities.

http://db.tidbits.com/article/11222
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post #105 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I hope it works the same way as iPhoto on desktop, which does store it as RAW. There is an icon at the bottom of the window that indicates that it is a RAW image.

Others have reported that it does store and sync the RAW back.
post #106 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple selling a cable to connect to other cameras with various cables attachments and SD cards makes no sense. The setup they sell makes the most sense. These can go in your camera bag quite easily as they aren't much bigger than an SD card.

OK, then I guess I totally misunderstood your earlier line of questioning and misunderstood an implication that the adaptor was somehow possibly superfluous. Because I certainly wasn't getting what I just quote from you in your earlier posts - but now that you have clarified, I think we are in violent agreement
post #107 of 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

OK, then I guess I totally misunderstood your earlier line of questioning and misunderstood an implication that the adaptor was somehow possibly superfluous. Because I certainly wasn't getting what I just quote from you in your earlier posts - but now that you have clarified, I think we are in violent agreement

As a general rule, if you disagree with me you're probably doing something wrong. Please don't take that seriously
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