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Authorities waiting to analyze data seized in iPhone prototype case - Page 5

post #161 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I haven't even a whisper that Apple reported it as lost (or stolen), even after it was missing for weeks or even that they had been in touch with the PD. If this whole story hadn't broken, would they have since contacted the police? Had it been dropped in the Lost and Found bin at the local PD the day after it was lost, it might have been sitting in the bin for the last 6 weeks. 42 days. Half way to the 90 day requirement.

Police departments probably don't do a whole lot of investigation regarding lost property that is turned in. If the finder had turned in the phone shortly after finding it, it might have gone in a bin as just another lost phone, the police would have made their public notice that no one reads. Who knows if Apple would ever reported it lost or inquired at the PD...it seems they didn't after 3 weeks of it being missing. This is what a truly honest finder would have done. I believe that finder in this case was unscrupulous. He likely realized that even if it all worked out well for him by turning it in and becoming its owner after 90 days, that would have essentially been in the time frame that it has generally been assumed the new iPhone would be announced or released. He could ebay it at that point, legally, but the value would have dropped substantially. Depending on how far away from the launch it was, he could have legally sold it to Giz for a substantial amount.

I didn't being up the whole 90 limit to give anyone a pass or to argue how they might covered themselves legally. It was simply someone asked how long a person has to turn in lost property after finding it (a day, a week, a month)? There is no specified time. I brought up the 90 day limit, as it is the only time limit specified in the civil lost property statutes. It hasn't even been 90 days since it was lost, so it isn't like this could be used to defend anyone. Simple a part of the discussion on the statutes involved.

I can't agree with that. Apparently Apple showed up at this guys apartment before the police did. It's very likely that they did a quiet search before getting the police involved so as to attempt to keep the publicity down. I wouldn't be surprised if they offered some money at first. That's usually how this works. Once they knew it was going public before they could find it, they would be forced to go to the police.

The fact that they didn't do so right away means nothing in a case like this.
post #162 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Why don't you test that. Call AppleCare and tell them you found an iPhone and see what happens? But I suppose that by now they may be more responsive in light of what has happened. Still, and interesting bit of research.

You're doubting it, so YOU should make that call. Of course, right now, with all this going on, they have likely had a number of pranks.
post #163 of 182
Tomorrow, I'm going to an Apple store here in NYC to get my 3G iPad. I'll ask about reporting a lost piece of Apple goods such as an iPhone that has a serial number, and must be registered with Apple before it works, to see how they will respond. I would ask the manager, but they will be too busy. I'll ask him when we have our next Mac User Group meeting there.
post #164 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I can't agree with that. Apparently Apple showed up at this guys apartment before the police did. It's very likely that they did a quiet search before getting the police involved so as to attempt to keep the publicity down. I wouldn't be surprised if they offered some money at first. That's usually how this works. Once they knew it was going public before they could find it, they would be forced to go to the police.

The fact that they didn't do so right away means nothing in a case like this.

They may have shown up at the finders residence the same day or day before the police searched Chen's place (the fact that Apple showed up at all to search a private residence is sort of scary/weird), we don't really know when.

But it isn't that they didn't check with the PD right away. They didn't for at least 3 weeks. If they wanted to keep it a secret, they could have just had Gray report a lost phone, no mention of it being an Apple prototype. Not really relevant anyway. Finder didn't turn it in and Apple didn't report a lost phone. Lots of ways to play what-if, but it doesn't really mean anything as to what actually occurred and the ramifications.

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post #165 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

Tomorrow, I'm going to an Apple store here in NYC to get my 3G iPad. I'll ask about reporting a lost piece of Apple goods

-> How to report lost or stolen Apple product?

"Last Modified: August 05, 2008
Article: HT2526
Old Article: 300066

Summary
How to report lost or stolen Apple product?

Apple does not have a formal flagging process for reporting stolen property. If you have lost or found an Apple product, please contact your local law enforcement agency to report it."

If you find an Apple product, you can call AppleCare and give them the serial number and they will forward your contact info to the last registered owner but Apple will not give you any info of the owner.

In this case, AppleCare would look it up and see the serial number was not valid and likely either simply make a note of it in some database or tell them it's not a "real" Apple product.
I guess if you kept insisting it was something "different" but you are sure it is an Apple product, they may pass it on to a supervisor.
post #166 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

They may have shown up at the finders residence the same day or day before the police searched Chen's place (the fact that Apple showed up at all to search a private residence is sort of scary/weird), we don't really know when.

But it isn't that they didn't check with the PD right away. They didn't for at least 3 weeks. If they wanted to keep it a secret, they could have just had Gray report a lost phone, no mention of it being an Apple prototype. Not really relevant anyway. Finder didn't turn it in and Apple didn't report a lost phone. Lots of ways to play what-if, but it doesn't really mean anything as to what actually occurred and the ramifications.

There are no ramifications. We don't even know how long it was before he reported it. They guy who had it wasn't clear as to how long he had it before it was locked.

But it doesn't matter anyway. They obviously did an investigation first, as would be expected.
post #167 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

-> How to report lost or stolen Apple product?

"Last Modified: August 05, 2008
Article: HT2526
Old Article: 300066

Summary
How to report lost or stolen Apple product?

Apple does not have a formal flagging process for reporting stolen property. If you have lost or found an Apple product, please contact your local law enforcement agency to report it."

If you find an Apple product, you can call AppleCare and give them the serial number and they will forward your contact info to the last registered owner but Apple will not give you any info of the owner.

In this case, AppleCare would look it up and see the serial number was not valid and likely either simply make a note of it in some database or tell them it's not a "real" Apple product.
I guess if you kept insisting it was something "different" but you are sure it is an Apple product, they may pass it on to a supervisor.

hat's Applecare. But this guy said they gave him a trouble number or something to that effect. I see no reason to dispute that. Apple must have a legal policy in place. They don't want thousands of people expecting them to find the owners of lost property. That doesn't mean they wouldn't do it if you came in with it. As I said, I'll ask tomorrow.
post #168 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

There are no ramifications. We don't even know how long it was before he reported it. They guy who had it wasn't clear as to how long he had it before it was locked.

But it doesn't matter anyway. They obviously did an investigation first, as would be expected.

The Giz story said the phone was deactivated by the morning after he found it. Apple may have done an investigation immediately, but it must have been mainly internal, if they didn't check with the PD for any lost items.

By ramifications, I meant ramifications of what actually occurred, i.e. him selling it to giz and the subsequent story, theft report and search warrant.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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post #169 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

-> How to report lost or stolen Apple product?

"Last Modified: August 05, 2008
Article: HT2526
Old Article: 300066

Summary
How to report lost or stolen Apple product?

Apple does not have a formal flagging process for reporting stolen property. If you have lost or found an Apple product, please contact your local law enforcement agency to report it."

In light of these recent events they should add the following:

"If you find a potential Apple product, please DO NOT sell it to a tech website, or we will come after you"

In other news, this may be the quickest way to get on Apple campus and maybe meet El Jobso
post #170 of 182
I've been away from the computer for several hours, and now see several interesting articles about this on DaringFireball.

Apparently this guy, now identified as Brian J. Hogan, never contacted Apple as he said he did originally, when he was still anonymous. Now he says that a friend OFFERED to call. What a mess. Scroll down a bit for the articles:

http://daringfireball.net/
post #171 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've been away from the computer for several hours, and now see several interesting articles about this on DaringFireball.

Apparently this guy, now identified as Brian J. Hogan, never contacted Apple as he said he did originally, when he was still anonymous. Now he says that a friend OFFERED to call. What a mess. Scroll down a bit for the articles:

http://daringfireball.net/

I stated before that I believed the Gizmodo story was lacking in some key elements. This is just the first.

The interesting thing will be when they check phone logs to see if the 'finder' had been in contact with Gizmodo before he went into the bar. I'm betting that they had - and that this wasn't a case of simply finding a phone someone dropped. I think that Powell was targeted.
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #172 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I can't agree with that. Apparently Apple showed up at this guys apartment before the police did. It's very likely that they did a quiet search before getting the police involved so as to attempt to keep the publicity down. [snip]

From what I've been reading, the finder's roommate turned the Apple representatives away, being that they're (the people at the apartment) are under no obligation to allow them in to search even if they do represent a large corporation.

They were probably there to imply a "just give it to us and we'll let the whole thing go quietly", but it's still creepy and weird.
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post #173 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I stated before that I believed the Gizmodo story was lacking in some key elements. This is just the first.

The interesting thing will be when they check phone logs to see if the 'finder' had been in contact with Gizmodo before he went into the bar. I'm betting that they had - and that this wasn't a case of simply finding a phone someone dropped. I think that Powell was targeted.

I still don't believe the targeting bit.
post #174 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

From what I've been reading, the finder's roommate turned the Apple representatives away, being that they're (the people at the apartment) are under no obligation to allow them in to search even if they do represent a large corporation.

They were probably there to imply a "just give it to us and we'll let the whole thing go quietly", but it's still creepy and weird.

I don't blame them for doing their own checks first. That's what security and detective agencies are for.
post #175 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't blame them for doing their own checks first. That's what security and detective agencies are for.

I would fully expect them to do their own investigation and information gathering. But, showing up and asking to search a private residence gets into an area I don't like. Imagine some investigators from a corporation showing up at your door and asking to have a look around. At that point it starts to get a bit creepy. When the Hon Hai/Foxconn employee committed suicide a while back, part of what the company was being looked at for was the search of Sun's home. They should have left attempted home searches to the police.

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post #176 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I would fully expect them to do their own investigation and information gathering. But, showing up and asking to search a private residence gets into an area I don't like. Imagine some investigators from a corporation showing up at your door and asking to have a look around. At that point it starts to get a bit creepy. When the Hon Hai/Foxconn employee committed suicide a while back, part of what the company was being looked at for was the search of Sun's home. They should have left attempted home searches to the police.

I don't mind them asking. I can always say no. You can bet that if I did agree, I would have them sign a paper that I would write very carefully.

Of course, if I were guilty, and had the evidence there, I wouldn't let them enter. Then gain, I wouldn't be doing something like this in the first place.
post #177 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I don't mind them asking. I can always say no. You can bet that if I did agree, I would have them sign a paper that I would write very carefully.

Of course, if I were guilty, and had the evidence there, I wouldn't let them enter. Then gain, I wouldn't be doing something like this in the first place.

oh hell, if you had done something like this and you did have evidence laying around, probably the best thing you could do would be to let them in. What better way to taint any evidence they find than by having the victim be the investigator?

But in the more likely case that you had nothing to do with anything but you weren't home. Maybe your 18 year old daughter or nephew was housesitting or you had a roommate. If the housesitter/roommate let them in to rummage through my home, I would have a major problem with that. And they story that we have so far says that the roommate was home and they asked him for permission to enter and search.

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...sometimes it's both
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...sometimes it's both
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post #178 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

oh hell, if you had done something like this and you did have evidence laying around, probably the best thing you could do would be to let them in. What better way to taint any evidence they find than by having the victim be the investigator?

That's taking a big chance. It's likely they know the law pretty well.

Quote:
But in the more likely case that you had nothing to do with anything but you weren't home. Maybe your 18 year old daughter or nephew was housesitting or you had a roommate. If the housesitter/roommate let them in to rummage through my home, I would have a major problem with that. And they story that we have so far says that the roommate was home and they asked him for permission to enter and search.

Well, my daughter was always told to never let anyone in the house unless they were expected, or friends of ours. Even at 18, when she's home, she wouldn't do it. If they were police with a warrant, then it would be different. But she wouldn't let someone from the gas company, or from any other company in. I told her that even if they ask to use the bathroom, to say that she was told to say no for her own safety.

We do let our mailman in though, as he's sort of a friend. But she wouldn't.
post #179 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's taking a big chance. It's likely they know the law pretty well.

It is taking a big chance, yet they asked anyway. What good could have come of it for them? The story was already out. Them, just searching, would make anything found on the premises then or later questionable at trial.

Edit: also, they might be very convincing to a young adult, with claims of them investigating a possible crime, even without a warrant.

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post #180 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

It is taking a big chance, yet they asked anyway. What good could have come of it for them? The story was already out. Them, just searching, would make anything found on the premises then or later questionable at trial.

Edit: also, they might be very convincing to a young adult, with claims of them investigating a possible crime, even without a warrant.

There's nothing against asking. If they hadn't yet gone to the police, they wouldn't be impeding an investigation, so it wouldn't matter. They just wanted to get the phone back.

When I was 18, I wouldn't be fooled by that. Maybe some would, but my own daughter wouldn't.
post #181 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

There's nothing against asking. If they hadn't yet gone to the police, they wouldn't be impeding an investigation, so it wouldn't matter. They just wanted to get the phone back.

When I was 18, I wouldn't be fooled by that. Maybe some would, but my own daughter wouldn't.

I am not sure if they had gone to the police formally yet, but the wired story claimed that it was after the Gizmodo story broke that they showed up at his house. They knew it was no longer there, so they weren't looking for the phone. They may already have had it returned by then. If then, they were searching for evidence for a criminal or civil case, that has got to be a problem once it went to trial.

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post #182 of 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

I am not sure if they had gone to the police formally yet, but the wired story claimed that it was after the Gizmodo story broke that they showed up at his house. They knew it was no longer there, so they weren't looking for the phone. They may already have had it returned by then. If then, they were searching for evidence for a criminal or civil case, that has got to be a problem once it went to trial.

I don't know. We don't know where the phone was at any particular date in time. Apple could have thought that he might have been given the phone back. Who knew the details of the deal at that point? Who knows it now? It's speculation still, as to the details. What would be the point of searching for something that's not there? What other evidence could possibly have been there?

They didn't have it back by then. That's clear. It was returned later, according to Gizmodo's time frame. Apple didn't know they had it until, at least, the Engadget article came out. And why would they have known who took it until after? While it was thought that this guy had called Apple, he clearly lied about that, so they didn't have any info on him early on.
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