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HP to acquire Palm for $1.2 Billion - Page 2

post #41 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:00pm
I, as a Pre owner, am happy that Palm (who will operate as a separate company) is getting the financial backing it needs to make a better product. I love webOS. It's elegant and sleek. I would like to see better hardware for it to run on an a tablet is one of the things that HP wants to do with webOS. They absolutely want to keep it and span it across multiple mobile platforms... so, yeah, reason enough to be excited.

I refuse to get an iPhone as long as it's on AT/T and having an iPod Touch gives me the iPhoneOS experience and I still like webOS better...
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post #42 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Over on Precentral.net, they are already crowing about how Palm can now copy the iPhone with impunity due to patents and cash. They are also drooling over the WebOS, iPad knock-off. Go check them out and see what the Palm community has devolved into.

Palm said Apple wouldn't be able to walk in and get it right. But that's exactly what Apple did - they walked in, no, they stormed onto the scene. Now Palm is fledging and their OS looks more like Apple's than any other vendor on the market. That's irony for your ass. It says to me that Palm feels that the only way to compete is to copy the guys in Cupertino.

Everybody has a touchscreen phone now. Guess who we can thank for that.
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post #43 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

I wonder if hp will really be committed to webos. If they come out with winmo7 phones, then we will know the answer is "no".

My guess is that they do come out with a windows phone.

My guess is that they come out with Windows, Android and WebOS phones.

Dell is a similar company. They just announced a flagship windows phone and 4 android phones aimed at various market segments.
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post #44 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:02pm
I think this is a brilliant move on HP's part.

The future is mobile computing (smart phones & tablets).

I think they are most interested in acquiring WEBos as the first step in 1. distancing themselves from MS and 2. creating an 'eco-system' a la Apple.

It may take years and to be quite honest won't work, but at least it's better than just 'slapping' together something like MS or Dell would do. In other words taking a 'longterm' approach as opposed to selling short term sh*t!

But I agree HP is not the innovator Apple is...but then again you don't have to be if you can buy a company like Palm and infuse it with capital.
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post #45 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:04pm
Quote:
WebOS based device? When they're releasing a Tablet running Windows? Are they suddenly going to play both sides of the street now? That's a risky job, even for a whore.


What is wrong with targeting various market segments? ISTM to be riskier to put all your eggs in one basket.
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post #46 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:07pm
Funny turn... after HP buying 3COM, everything is back to where it starts...

Aside from HP's grossly inept management and their lack of value they express towards their employees, it could be interesting to watch.
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post #47 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

HP's idea of innovation:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/19/h...-the-wild-meh/

Doesn't look too good for Palm.

Maybe that "meh" was the reason they bought Palm.

I still think WebOS is by far the *second* best mobile OS out there, but it probably doesn't have a chance against Android now unless Apple's lawsuits with HTC hold it back somewhat.

It would be funny if Microsoft bought HP now.

Then all *three* of the companies that led the field for mobile devices at one time or another but squandered the lead due to bad management decisions and poor design choices would be in the same camp.
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post #48 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by webpoet73 View Post

I, as a Pre owner, am happy that Palm (who will operate as a separate company) is getting the financial backing it needs to make a better product.

Problem is that this simply isn't how HP operates. Slash and Burn is really more their mentality. Look at what they have done to EDS and other, smaller acquisitions. HP is only after profit, and if Palm can't deliver then they will chop it to hell.

Now, if HP had vision, they could really do some interesting things with Palm. That, however, is not in line with "letting them operate as a separate company." They need to integrate Palm thoughts and ideas into their existing products and visions... but it won't happen as one might hope.
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post #49 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

Problem is that this simply isn't how HP operates. Slash and Burn is really more their mentality. Look at what they have done to EDS and other, smaller acquisitions. HP is only after profit, and if Palm can't deliver then they will chop it to hell.

Now, if HP had vision, they could really do some interesting things with Palm. That, however, is not in line with "letting them operate as a separate company." They need to integrate Palm thoughts and ideas into their existing products and visions... but it won't happen as one might hope.

Well, separate "business unit" within HP. I know it's all rosey now. One cannot predict the future. No matter how smart we might think we are. I am hopeful for the future and will adapt accordingly, but I am not abandoning my Pre until the ship has completely sunk. This deal gives it more life than it had prior to the deal.
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post #50 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post


But I agree HP is not the innovator Apple is...but then again you don't have to be if you can buy a company like Palm and infuse it with capital.

Remember years ago when we thought the Razor was all that and a bag of chips. Now Apple has changed how we think about phones. The Razor wasn't revolutionary, yet it's one of the most successful mobile devices in history. My point is, in today's market, because of think tanks like Apple et al, you HAVE to be an innovator. If not, you'll end up like Palm - "Po, Broke, and Disgusted."
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post #51 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

...snip...

On paper, you may be right about HP and Palm and their chances, but the first thing that popped into my head was "HP, where technology goes to die."

HP has a history of squandering IP (in my opinion), and a corporate culture that's almost poisonous to innovation.

I don't know...this time could be different! HP could merge Palm into their iPAQ lineup they acquired with the purchase of Compaq...oh wait, never mind!

In the end, this helps Apple. HP could've gone with using Android or Windows 7 Phone Series.
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post #52 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Remember years ago when we thought the Razor was all that and a bag of chips. Now Apple has changed how we think about phones. The Razor wasn't revolutionary, yet it's one of the most successful mobile devices in history. My point is, in today's market, because of think tanks like Apple et al, you HAVE to be an innovator. If not, you'll end up like Palm - "Po, Broke, and Disgusted."

Agreed...but there are two basic business philosophies...1. be like Apple and innovate or 2. be like Walmart, Coca-Cola, Dell, McDonald's, Budweiser, GM, MS and sell 'crap' products and hope you sell a lot!

Palm was at one time an 'innovator' as was HP (think printers here) but HP has definitely turned into a #2 type company and as you say maybe it's too late for Palm, as well.

Ps. Yes, I do remember coveting the razr...another example of owning a market so to speak and not continuing to innovate. Again, Apple has owned the MP3 market for years and look at the new and improved iPod Models that come out every year-amazing!
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post #53 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macslut View Post

I don't know...this time could be different! HP could merge Palm into their iPAQ lineup they acquired with the purchase of Compaq...oh wait, never mind!

In the end, this helps Apple. HP could've gone with using Android or Windows 7 Phone Series.

I think HP, Dell, Sony and the rest of the PC manufacturers have been hurt immeasurably by MS's missteps and clumsy implementation of their OS's.

This is HP attempting to get more into consumer mobile computing without having to carry a dog like MS's clunky buggy OS's.


BTW: Dell really missed the boat on this one!
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post #54 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:36pm
Let's see:
According to Value Line
Palm had 167,593,000 shares outstanding and Elevation Partners owned about 33.1%,
so E.P. owned about 55,473,283 shares. At $5.70 per share, E.P. will get $316,197,713
for their Palm shares. According to Wikipedia, E.P. invested $425 million in Palm.
Does someone have better figures, or did Elevation Partners just take a big haircut?
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post #55 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

Don´t forget Flash support too!


In my opinion Mac users are a bit upset, they were looking for a open Mac tablet with decent storage so they can tweak on it and innovate.

I'm not upset with the iPad and I think most Mac users are not. Each person has their own little dreams about what it might have been like, but that's natural. The sales show that a lot of people are not too upset.

Now, why can't HP blend with Palm and make a better hardware setup to put Palm OS on and sell a great HP phone too? I didn't think about the slate right away, but it does sound like a big step forward for HP if they run with that.
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post #56 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Let's see:
According to Value Line
Palm had 167,593,000 shares outstanding and Elevation Partners owned about 33.1%,
so E.P. owned about 55,473,283 shares. At $5.70 per share, E.P. will get $316,197,713
for their Palm shares. According to Wikipedia, E.P. invested $425 million in Palm.
Does someone have better figures, or did Elevation Partners just take a big haircut?

Actually, Elevation Partners took a haircut when the stock slid from $17 to under $5.

HP's offer means that they'll only lose 25% of their initial investment instead of 35%.
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post #57 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3goldens View Post

They deserve each other! They'll both be out of business within 5 years!

Funny, but I doubt it.
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post #58 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Actually, Elevation Partners took a haircut when the stock slid from $17 to under $5.

HP's offer means that they'll only lose 25% of their initial investment instead of 35%.

Yeah. Well at least Bono has Bill Gates' and Warren Buffett's shoulders to cry on.
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post #59 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by daving313 View Post

It's funny that certain niche message boards for certain fans tend to have the same quick to the punch attitude about things. Reading the Appleinsider comments here I see we have a bunch of MBA's and Strategy consultants who already know this is doomed before a single share has been bought.

HP is a $120 billion dollar company. Palm has a ton of IP and engineering talent. This is a very, very smart move for HP. They are paying straight cash.

Let's not hate before even a single device is even realized to the public. I sense some fear among those die-hard iPhone OS folks... An open tablet from HP with webOS with TRUE multi-tasking...? Wow.

I agree, it too early to hate/slate (get it?) but any MBA (who are mostly knuckleheads) will tell you the odds are against this deal like most others of its ilk. It may be a day for imaginations to run wild and think of the possible upside but tomorrow and every day after that is reality which is more likely to prove that Palm/HP will have cultural problems, spend ages integrating roadmaps, lose key staff, find the market moving underneath them, HP will run out of patience slightly too soon, etc.
Imagination is cool but reality is real...
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post #60 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

I agree, it too early to hate/slate (get it?) but any MBA (who are mostly knuckleheads) will tell you the odds are against this deal like most others of its ilk. It may be a day for imaginations to run wild and think of the possible upside but tomorrow and every day after that is reality which is more likely to prove that Palm/HP will have cultural problems, spend ages integrating roadmaps, lose key staff, find the market moving underneath them, HP will run out of patience slightly too soon, etc.
Imagination is cool but reality is real...

Agreed! Never work for a family business and never work for a corporation!
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post #61 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I imagine you're right.

WebOS based device? When they're releasing a Tablet running Windows? Are they suddenly going to play both sides of the street now? That's a risky job, even for a whore.

HP is not a Whore!!!!

It is a Brothel, catering to all tastes and all markets, straight, gay, fetish, and all points in between. This is like opening up a whole new wing (or reopening the closed iPaq wing).
Not even the highest class call girl gets to be worth $120Bn... or have I pushed your offhand metaphor too far ;-)
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post #62 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed! Never work for a family business and never work for a corporation!

Does that just leave yourself (and don't employ your kids/parents/cousins)
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post #63 of 118
4/28/10 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

Does that just leave yourself (and don't employ your kids/parents/cousins)

Kind of. I meant don't work for a business that is owned by a different family than yours. But, it's probably a good idea not to do either one!
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post #64 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I think HP, Dell, Sony and the rest of the PC manufacturers have been hurt immeasurably by MS's missteps and clumsy implementation of their OS's.

This is HP attempting to get more into consumer mobile computing without having to carry a dog like MS's clunky buggy OS's.


BTW: Dell really missed the boat on this one!

Dell has committed hard to Android and WinPh7 - still vapor but a sexy looking roadmap:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/22/d...ore-a-roundup/

Palm will end up costing HP way more than the purchase price (which was probably worth it for patents and debt writeoffs) and take their eye off the ball while Google and MS invest heavily in their platforms... and Apple continues to print money, much to the disgust of the little band of geeks on all the blogs...
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post #65 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:00pm
i was hoping htc would buy them :/

Ah well. Guess HP wants to get into the phone market in a big way. I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do with Palm.
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post #66 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

I agree, it too early to hate/slate (get it?) but any MBA (who are mostly knuckleheads) will tell you the odds are against this deal like most others of its ilk. It may be a day for imaginations to run wild and think of the possible upside but tomorrow and every day after that is reality which is more likely to prove that Palm/HP will have cultural problems, spend ages integrating roadmaps, lose key staff, find the market moving underneath them, HP will run out of patience slightly too soon, etc.
Imagination is cool but reality is real...

That gives pause for thought.
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post #67 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by daving313 View Post

It's funny that certain niche message boards for certain fans tend to have the same quick to the punch attitude about things. Reading the Appleinsider comments here I see we have a bunch of MBA's and Strategy consultants who already know this is doomed before a single share has been bought.

HP is a $120 billion dollar company. Palm has a ton of IP and engineering talent. This is a very, very smart move for HP. They are paying straight cash.

Let's not hate before even a single device is even realized to the public. I sense some fear among those die-hard iPhone OS folks... An open tablet from HP with webOS with TRUE multi-tasking...? Wow.

Nothing will come of it.
HP is no more capable of making this work than Palm was. Palm was barely able to put together a touch based OS and HP is even less so (that's why they bought Palm!) Worse, neither company understands user experience in the least.
I'd say its a billion dollars wasted.
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post #68 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capnbob View Post

Dell has committed hard to Android and WinPh7 - still vapor but a sexy looking roadmap:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/22/d...ore-a-roundup/

Palm will end up costing HP way more than the purchase price (which was probably worth it for patents and debt writeoffs) and take their eye off the ball while Google and MS invest heavily in their platforms... and Apple continues to print money, much to the disgust of the little band of geeks on all the blogs...

I don't know what to think of the dell phones yet lol. I like them, but I prefer a keyboard that slid out from the side instead of the bottom.

Did you see the WP7 office demo? It's definitely a step up
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post #69 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Ps. Yes, I do remember coveting the razr...another example of owning a market so to speak and not continuing to innovate. Again, Apple has owned the MP3 market for years and look at the new and improved iPod Models that come out every year-amazing!

Yes! My first MP3 player was a Panasonic, I only bought it 'cause it was dirt cheap. And my experience with it was horrible(I was also a Windows user at this time). I ended up returning it and getting another worthless MP3 player - only to return it that very same day.

Finally, I decided to get Apple's iPod classic. I was hesitant mainly because it was $300 - I kept thinking it's pretty stupid to pay that kind of money for a device that only plays music. I bought it and immediately fell in love with it. I hadn't owned any Apple products prior, so I wasn't aware of the impact software could make.

I was so impressed with the software and the overall user experience that I traded in my HP for an iMac. Wow! This was in '06, and I haven't looked back. Since, I've purchased another iMac, a Macbook Air, a Macbook, a 17" Macbook Pro, each generation of iPhones, an AppleTV, and more recently, two iPads.

I'm completely satisfied, and I'd like to thank Panasonic. If they cared about innovation and user satisfaction the way Apple does, I'd still be using a PC.
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post #70 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post

Over on Precentral.net, they are already crowing about how Palm can now copy the iPhone with impunity due to patents and cash. They are also drooling over the WebOS, iPad knock-off. Go check them out and see what the Palm community has devolved into.

C'mon give them their fantasy... it must be nice to crow about something for a change...
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post #71 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

iconic? Are you serious? This never ending chase for sensationalism is destroying the meaning of perfectly good words. Iconic my foot!

(smirk!)
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post #72 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

i was hoping htc would buy them :/

Ah well. Guess HP wants to get into the phone market in a big way. I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do with Palm.

The HTC version of this would have been problematic in different ways... HTC make great hardware and have invested in an Android UI tweak but it hardly gives them the skills to manage a full OS platform. It assumes a merger of near equals which is even harder to make work.

HTC does very well with Android (and did with WinMob) and has no need for WebOS. Maybe they would have bought a patent shield (but probably not) but working with GOOG and MS is perfect for them. They may have their patent shield now from MS for much less. Palm would have been a millstone around their necks. Most desire for this merger came from Palm fans bemoaning the crappy Pre hardware and thinking that HTC could save them.
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post #73 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

I think this is a brilliant move on HP's part.

The future is mobile computing (smart phones & tablets).

I think they are most interested in acquiring WEBos as the first step in 1. distancing themselves from MS and 2. creating an 'eco-system' a la Apple.

It may take years and to be quite honest won't work, but at least it's better than just 'slapping' together something like MS or Dell would do. In other words taking a 'longterm' approach as opposed to selling short term sh*t!

But I agree HP is not the innovator Apple is...but then again you don't have to be if you can buy a company like Palm and infuse it with capital.

Brilliant or not (probably not) there is no way HP can "distance" themselves from MS. That is insane. Whether WinPh7 is a success or not, HP will not ignore it. They are a HW maker that use other peoples' OSs and that will not change because they had a minor flutter on an also-ran. HP are smarter than that. MS already have a better ecosystem (through Zune/XBL) without having a released product. Does HP really want to get into the same moneypit strategies as MS, I doubt it.
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post #74 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed...but there are two basic business philosophies...1. be like Apple and innovate or 2. be like Walmart, Coca-Cola, Dell, McDonald's, Budweiser, GM, MS and sell 'crap' products and hope you sell a lot!

That is a very narrow definition of innovation. Apple's have all been very public (AppleII, Mac OS, DTP, All-in-One's, iPod, iTunes, Apple Stores, iPhone, AppStore) but those other companies are all successful for a reason, and not for the superficial description you state.

Coke - innovation in marketing (they invented modern Santa Clause!), distribution, manufacturing.
Walmart - supply chain, marketing (roll-backs), China sourcing
McD's - supply chain (Golden West), franchising, real-estate management, global menu replication/discipline
Dell - BTO, online sales
Bud - not sure - they got bought by Belgians...

Innovation is happening everywhere (nice and nasty forms) and generally drives success if you do it right. Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't there.
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post #75 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:29pm
Mmmm...

Reminds me of The HP Compaq merger. My parents investment portfolio held rather large positions on both stocks-- and they both went down!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #76 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I'm a Mac user, and perhaps I'm in the minority, but I care nothing about flash. In fact, click2flash was a godsend. The idea of an HP slate running WebOS sounds fantastic as opposed to running Windows.

To be honest, that's why I never owned a netbook - because they came pre-installed with Windows.

I have to agree with you. I am an Apple fan through and through. But WebOS is a very good OS. It might work really well on the HP Slate.

But I'm getting my iPad on Friday!!! SO no slate for me... But I do like the idea.
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post #77 of 118
4/28/10 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

The HP Slate sounds more tempting with WebOS, in my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yes it does! That is the first thing I thought of. Might be the first really good competitor to the iPad.

Exactly!

I can see Apple, Google, and HPalm competing for the mind (and wallet) share for the tablet marketplace... as that marketplace evolves to outnumber (not replace) computers as we know them today.

I think HPalm could be up to the task... Google would need to get into the hardware business!

That leave these as potential major tablet players:

Apple-- Hardware, OS, Apps and ecosystem advantages (they are already doing it!).

Google-- Software, OS, Apps and limited ecosystem (must acquire tablet mfgr)

HPalm-- Hardware, + Palm OS, Apps and limited ecosystem (must catalyze HP & Palm)

MSFT & others-- too little, too unfocused, too late!


I see Apple as having a tremendous marketing advantage as well as a proven track record (quality, support, style, usability, etc).


.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #78 of 118
4/28/10 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Actually, Elevation Partners took a haircut when the stock slid from $17 to under $5.

HP's offer means that they'll only lose 25% of their initial investment instead of 35%.

a haircut is better than a scalping!

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #79 of 118
4/28/10 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

a haircut is better than a scalping!

.

This would make a great sig... Thanks for the chuckle.
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post #80 of 118
4/28/10 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

Don´t forget Flash support too!


In my opinion Mac users are a bit upset, they were looking for a open Mac tablet with decent storage so they can tweak on it and innovate.

Mac users are laughing their asses off about HP pissing away a billion on this purchase.
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