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LG Innotek may supply 5MP camera for Apple's fourth-gen iPhone

post #1 of 40
Thread Starter 
LG Innotek will serve as the supplier of 5-megapixel camera sensors for Apple's next-generation iPhone due to ship this spring, according to a report out of the Far East.

The Chosun reported Wednesday that the Korea-based electronics component maker began "producing the sophisticated cameras at its plant in Gumi this month and will mass produce them starting in the second half of this year."

The report contradicts one from Taiwanese rumor publication DigiTimes issued this past December, in which it said that OmniVision, the supplier of CMOS image sensors for the current iPhone, expected to see demand for its sensors in iPhones grow exponentially -- as high as 45 million -- after it secured a deal to supply a 5-megapixel camera for the next-generation iPhone.

In addition to the camera upgrade from 3.2 megapixels to 5.0 megapixels, this year's iPhone model is also expect to gain a camera flash. People familiar with the matter first revealed such plans to AppleInsider back in January, explaining that Apple had been shopping around for LED camera flash components and may have settled on Philips' LUXEON LED camera flash technology.

Since then, there has been substantial supporting evidence supporting those claims, such as the presence of camera flash functions in Apple's pre-release builds of iPhone Software 4.0, which were also first revealed by AppleInsider.



Apple's fourth-generation iPhone, which was undressed in its entirety this month after one of the company's baseband engineers lost a prototype model that was found, then sold to and exploited by Gizmodo, is also expected to ship with a front-facing video camera that will work with a mobile version of Apple's iChat video conferencing software set to debut at the same time.
post #2 of 40
'May'?

Wow. Overwhelmed. OK.
post #3 of 40
Give me that and 720p video and it's probably enough to replace most people's point and shoots.
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post #4 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

'May'?

Wow. Overwhelmed. OK.

Does that mean you are aware of the quality of these camera modules?
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post #5 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Give me that and 720p video and it's probably enough to replace most people's point and shoots.

No optical zoom, no image stabization, far inferior sensor size... Yeah, I think I'll stick with my iPhone, P&S, and D-SLR. They all have their place.
post #6 of 40
I guess 5MP is the next logical step for the iPhone camera as Apple's never been at the forefront of the phone MP race. As long as the quality is high I suppose that's fine for now.

Hey what's the SOTA for front facing/chat cams these days? We thinking 1.3MP for the front camera? Less? More?

Interested as I assume the front camera will find its way into the iPad rev B...
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post #7 of 40
Look like both my wish lists gonna come true: multi-tasking & 5mp camera. No need for Point&Shoot for me again. When I wanna be serious then I would just use my DSLR, but most of the time I guess this new iPhone should be fine.
post #8 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post

I guess 5MP is the next logical step for the iPhone camera as Apple's never been at the forefront of the phone MP race. As long as the quality is high I suppose that's fine for now.

Hey what's the SOTA for front facing/chat cams these days? We thinking 1.3MP for the front camera? Less? More?

I think the iSight camera in Macs and LED ACD is still only 0.3Mpx, which seems sufficient for a phone's processor and RAM and guaranteed to be wireless. This is really seems like a novelty feature anyway so I don't think they have to set any records in this area, especially when they clearly aren't trying to do it with their main camera's megapixel count.
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post #9 of 40
The problem of course is that these high MP cell phone cameras often leave a lot to be desired. Frankly though I have little use for the camera on my iPhone.

Speaking of which Apple could go a long way to improving the iPhones camera by adding an advanced mode. Give us control over exposure and other parameters so we can compose decent shots.

In any event here is hoping for a real improvement inquality which ought to be possible given the rapid pace of innovation. The other thing I'm wondering about is does the vendor change reflect a falling out with the current vendor over the bungled Touch launch? I'm left with the impression that the last minute Touch changes really pissed off management at Apple.

Dave
post #10 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Give me that and 720p video and it's probably enough to replace most people's point and shoots.

Same MP != quality. And good lord, the quality in ANY camera phone is probably never going to be a point and shoot simply because of the size of the sensor. And a point and shoot will never be better than a DSLR for the same reason.

Let's just acknowledge that camera phones are great because you can carry them everywhere and leave it at that.
post #11 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The problem of course is that these high MP cell phone cameras often leave a lot to be desired. Frankly though I have little use for the camera on my iPhone.

Speaking of which Apple could go a long way to improving the iPhones camera by adding an advanced mode. Give us control over exposure and other parameters so we can compose decent shots.

In any event here is hoping for a real improvement inquality which ought to be possible given the rapid pace of innovation. The other thing I'm wondering about is does the vendor change reflect a falling out with the current vendor over the bungled Touch launch? I'm left with the impression that the last minute Touch changes really pissed off management at Apple.

Dave

Any user who wants stuff like that should and will never be satisfied with what a cameraphone-sized sensor will produce. -_-
post #12 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Any user who wants stuff like that should and will never be satisfied with what a cameraphone-sized sensor will produce. -_-

As they say, "the best camera is the one you have on you."

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post #13 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Same MP != quality. And good lord, the quality in ANY camera phone is probably never going to be a point and shoot simply because of the size of the sensor. And a point and shoot will never be better than a DSLR for the same reason.

Let's just acknowledge that camera phones are great because you can carry them everywhere and leave it at that.

Never say never. Nokia just put a sensor that is 30% bigger than a P&S one in the N8. 12MP in their case is a little bit of overkill, but still the example pictures are pretty good as is the 720P video. Plus it has a real Xenon flash, not a lame LED one.

I think Apple still has a way to go to catch up on the cutting edge.

Front facing camera are usually VGA at most. The 3GPP specs for 3G support circuit switched video calls since Release 99 and it has been possible to make video calls in Europe since early 2000's. So nearly all 3G phones in Europe have front facing camera and almost no-one uses them. Still, it has been extremely funny to read articles in CNet, etc. over the years where the clueless American reviewer was thinking that the front camera was for checking your makeup or taking pictures of yourself .
post #14 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Same MP != quality. And good lord, the quality in ANY camera phone is probably never going to be a point and shoot simply because of the size of the sensor. .

Never say never.

For unretouched photos from the development version of a phone that has a sensor roughly 30% bigger (1/1.83" vs. 1/2.5") than most point-and-shoots with 12 Mpix and Carl-Zeiss optics,720p video capture and HDMI out:

http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/...-n8-untouched/

SE is rumoured to do the same soon. The Koreans will copy quickly (Samsung already has 12Mpix but with a smaller sensor).

But those are only features that nobody wants

Regs, Jarkko
post #15 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodyfanning View Post

Front facing camera are usually VGA at most. The 3GPP specs for 3G support circuit switched video calls since Release 99 and it has been possible to make video calls in Europe since early 2000's. So nearly all 3G phones in Europe have front facing camera and almost no-one uses them...

I'm from Europe, never seen a phone with front facing camera. Maybe some camera's introduced a few months ago have this feature.

Anyway it isn't the most important factor that you have a front facing camera (it is of course a necessity); you must actually be able to do something with it.
And I have never seen an easy to use application like iChat on a mobile phone.
Also, communication must be using the internet (IP) protocol and "3GPP specs for 3G support circuit switched video calls" doesn't sound like that.

J
post #16 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjnjn View Post

I'm from Europe, never seen a phone with front facing camera. Maybe some camera's introduced a few months ago have this feature.

Anyway it isn't the most important factor that you have a front facing camera (it is of course a necessity); you must actually be able to do something with it.
And I have never seen an easy to use application like iChat on a mobile phone.
Also, communication must be using the internet (IP) protocol and "3GPP specs for 3G support circuit switched video calls" doesn't sound like that.

J

Actually most do have them and have had them for years and years. They're just pretty tiny so you may have missed them. On mine it looks more like a pinhole than a camera.

What do you mean "it must use IP"? Why would it? Your current voice calls aren't are they?

Not easy? To make a two-way video call, all you have to do is select your contact and select "make video call" instead of "make a voice call". Usually you have to go via "options" or something as it's not the default mode of making a call but it's not difficult. As jfanning pointed out: it's been available for at least 7 years , easy to use, but who on earth would want to watch a talking head when on a call? The masses in Europe and Asia have so far said "no need".

Sure Apple marketing can change that. And maybe iChat on the iPhone will bring something dramatically new (my imagination doesn't stretch that far). One of the issues against video calls is you need a headset to keep the call private. Also the receiver needs to be in a place/situation capable of either using speakerphone or headset. If you're not on headset or speakerphone, you're sending a picture of your sexy ear. Kind of limits the usability of the feature.

Regs, Jarkko
post #17 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Never say never.

For unretouched photos from the development version of a phone that has a sensor roughly 30% bigger (1/1.83" vs. 1/2.5") than most point-and-shoots with 12 Mpix and Carl-Zeiss optics,720p video capture and HDMI out:

http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/...-n8-untouched/

SE is rumoured to do the same soon. The Koreans will copy quickly (Samsung already has 12Mpix but with a smaller sensor).

But those are only features that nobody wants

Regs, Jarkko

I have a few reservations-questions after reading the article.
1) How come no low light photos, the author even ignores peoples questions about how it does in low light and fast moving pics.
2) If it outputs to jpeg how much noise will we see introduced, if exported in some native raw format, how exactly does one take more than 1 or 2 pictures without eating up every last bit of on board memory, maxing out cpu cycles and not flatlining the battery?
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post #18 of 40
Wow....so they're close to release if they're giving info like that.
post #19 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

I have a few reservations-questions after reading the article.
1) How come no low light photos, the author even ignores peoples questions about how it does in low light and fast moving pics.
2) If it outputs to jpeg how much noise will we see introduced, if exported in some native raw format, how exactly does one take more than 1 or 2 pictures without eating up every last bit of on board memory, maxing out cpu cycles and not flatlining the battery?

About low light: Could be that they are not satisfied with the results yet or that they haven't taken any "official" night shots yet. You don't often see low light samples even in camera vendor's publicity example shots.

For the rest, we'll have to wait until the phone is in the hands of reviewers and/or more pictures are released.

Naturally pictures in bright sunlight are easy to make. But at least in those conditions it seems to offer similar performance to your standard P&S. For fast moving pics, someone rumoured that the sensor is 1/1000s capable.

I doubt you'll see raw on this thing. You don't really see it on most P&Ss either.

This was just a convenient example of "never say never" to the "phone sensor sizes will never be as good as what we get even on P&Ss" argument. Not to be viewed as a "look, this is better than 5Mpix on iPhone HD". A 5 Mpix sensor can give out better results than a 12 Mpix one. We'll have to wait for reviews to find out.

Regs, Jarkko
post #20 of 40
Why is it whenever we see an improved camera some clever cloggs has to remind us that megapixels doesn't always mean quality and go into the whole pre amble bullshit about how it doesn't really compare to a real digi cam or SLR.

We know that but for the odd pic (which is the purpose or a camera phone) it does improve it somewhat. Get over it.
post #21 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

As jfanning pointed out:

Not me, same surname, different person.
post #22 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Not me, same surname, different person.

My bad. Apologies for the mistaken identity.

Regs, Jarkko
post #23 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjnjn View Post

I'm from Europe, never seen a phone with front facing camera.

Then open your eyes... If you really are "from Europe"...

Almost ALL consumer 3G phones for the non-US GSM markets have had front cameras and native videocalling capability for the last SEVEN years.

As has been mentioned, all it takes to make a video call is to dial someone's number and press video call. It does not go over an IP connection, and no iChat-alike appliations needed, it's native and built in. Almost all European networks have supported this for the best part of ten years. Try finding a consumer 3G handset without a front camera in those regions.

I'm in the UK and have been getting 100 free videocall minutes a month with my contract for the last five years. Apart from pissing around for the novelty factor, I've never used them, and nor has anyone else I know.

This is one tech flop that nobody ever cared about and would've been best staying in the movies along with cyber VR and furiously bleeping magic image enhancing mainframes with huge green fonts.
post #24 of 40
The SonyEricsson Satio has been out for quite some time now.

Usual poor performing Symbian OS.

What's with the screen limitation to 640 x360 (x480 in the N810 tablet) pixel maximum?

Winmo, Android, iPhone OS (iPad) and others easily surpass this limitation.

Symbian finally seems to be getting transparency, one of those small things taken for granted in the first iPhone had almost three years ago.

The three homescreens came from Android 1.6 and Samsung's feature phone OS.

It's still not enough Nokia is doomed to selling cheap, feature stripped smartphone's to the lowest common denominator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Never say never.

For unretouched photos from the development version of a phone that has a sensor roughly 30% bigger (1/1.83" vs. 1/2.5") than most point-and-shoots with 12 Mpix and Carl-Zeiss optics,720p video capture and HDMI out:

http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/...-n8-untouched/

SE is rumoured to do the same soon. The Koreans will copy quickly (Samsung already has 12Mpix but with a smaller sensor).

But those are only features that nobody wants

Regs, Jarkko
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post #25 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

My bad. Apologies for the mistaken identity.

Regs, Jarkko

No problem at all.
post #26 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The SonyEricsson Satio has been out for quite some time now.

You must have missing the part about the N8 have the largest sensor size in a mobile phone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

What's with the screen limitation to 640 x360 (x480 in the N810 tablet) pixel maximum?

Winmo, Android, iPhone OS (iPad) and others easily surpass this limitation.

Wait, you are comparing the screen resolution of the N8 to the iPad? Ok, while we are at it, what is up with the screen limitation of the iPhone 320x480.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Symbian finally seems to be getting transparency, one of those small things taken for granted in the first iPhone had almost three years ago.

It is a pretty brave, or a fairly stupid, man that compares the current feature set of Symbian to the original iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The three homescreens came from Android 1.6 and Samsung's feature phone OS.

And your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

It's still not enough Nokia is doomed to selling cheap, feature stripped smartphone's to the lowest common denominator.

So when you walk past a Toyota dealer, so you laugh at them for selling the Yaris, or Corolla? Or when you are cleaning the shelves in K-Mart do you have a little cry about the stuff they sell?
post #27 of 40
Nokia 6700, E65, 2730, just a few 3G phones without this most underwhelming of features, Networks don't even bother including video calls in the features any more after several failed attempts at building up some hype.

My first attempt ended up with a very poor quality, low frame rate view of my fathers ear, he's a bit of a luddite and didn't quite get it.

Haven't really used it since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ectoplasmosis View Post

Then open your eyes... If you really are "from Europe"...

Almost ALL consumer 3G phones for the non-US GSM markets have had front cameras and native videocalling capability for the last SEVEN years.

As has been mentioned, all it takes to make a video call is to dial someone's number and press video call. It does not go over an IP connection, and no iChat-alike appliations needed, it's native and built in. Almost all European networks have supported this for the best part of ten years. Try finding a consumer 3G handset without a front camera in those regions.

I'm in the UK and have been getting 100 free videocall minutes a month with my contract for the last five years. Apart from pissing around for the novelty factor, I've never used them, and nor has anyone else I know.

This is one tech flop that nobody ever cared about and would've been best staying in the movies along with cyber VR and furiously bleeping magic image enhancing mainframes with huge green fonts.
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post #28 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

The SonyEricsson Satio has been out for quite some time now.
(... remaining irrelevant rant deleted)

Please actually read what was written. Like I said before, I used the N8 as an example of a phone with a sensor size larger than on an average P&S to counter a specific argument. It's useless to get into a feature war in general, there are no winners.

Feature wars are especially useless when very few people know all features of all devices. Someone will always come back and bite you proving you're wrong just like you proved that not all 3G phones have front facing cameras. Still a very large number do especially if it's a higher spec phone.

If you want to talk about multiple homescreens, tell me when did the first Maemo and/or Symbian with different homescreens come to market? Well before Android. I've had one in my pocket for two years and I don't know when the first ones were shipped. The N900 has several screens. Does Ã*Phone. It's still a pointless fact in view of built-in cameras on phones (the topic at hand).

Regs, Jarkko
post #29 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by ectoplasmosis View Post

Then open your eyes... If you really are "from Europe"...

Almost ALL consumer 3G phones for the non-US GSM markets have had front cameras and native videocalling capability for the last SEVEN years.

What? Are you telling me that my NOKIA 6300 right next to me has a front facing camera even though it doesn't?
post #30 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokken View Post

What? Are you telling me that my NOKIA 6300 right next to me has a front facing camera even though it doesn't?

Naturally it doesn't as it's a 2G only phone... Videocalls are a 3G feature as mentioned before. But there are low-cost 3G phones without as well.

Regs, Jarkko
post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Does that mean you are aware of the quality of these camera modules?

No I am not. I was just commenting on the tentative nature of the headline (which now has been changed, apparently).

Why, does that mean you are? If so, please tell us?
post #32 of 40
imo phone should go for super high MP to compensate for the lack of a zoom. Its pretty amazing how you can zoom in 12MP pics and still have plenty of details.

a 12MP digital zoom will be the same has a 5MP camera with a 3x optical zoom.
post #33 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

No I am not. I was just commenting on the tentative nature of the headline (which now has been changed, apparently).

Why, does that mean you are? If so, please tell us?

Not at all. I was sincerely hoping you had some insights you could share.


Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

imo phone should go for super high MP to compensate for the lack of a zoom. Its pretty amazing how you can zoom in 12MP pics and still have plenty of details.

a 12MP digital zoom will be the same has a 5MP camera with a 3x optical zoom.

How about a good sensor and qality pics at a given resolution instead of just a excessively high image sizes that are shitty.
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post #34 of 40
Yes, but are iPod touch users going to get an equally effective camera? There are a lot of us who don't want or can't justify AT&T's pricey plan who'd like a productivity device with a decent camera. If nothing else, create a high-end iPod touch with both a camera and GPS.
post #35 of 40
Apple finally looks like catching up with my Samsung Jet S8000, which was released last July.

Now I just wish Samsung would catch up with Apples OS
post #36 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokken View Post

What? Are you telling me that my NOKIA 6300 right next to me has a front facing camera even though it doesn't?

Yes, as it's a 2G phone.

Of course 3G handsets without videocalling capability exist, however they are few and far between and are mostly corporate environment-oriented or budget models restricted to pre-paid bundles. I also used to own an oddity called the Nokia 6630 that, aside from being styled after a pregnant Anne Widdecombe, supported videocalling but had no front camera.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

Yes, but are iPod touch users going to get an equally effective camera? There are a lot of us who don't want or can't justify AT&T's pricey plan who'd like a productivity device with a decent camera. If nothing else, create a high-end iPod touch with both a camera and GPS.

What's to stop you buying a SIM-free/pre-paid iPhone? Don't know about the US but in the UK one can buy any model of iPhone on several different carriers outright without a contract for a reasonably justifiable price, and get a year's free "unlimited" data to boot.

.
post #37 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

imo phone should go for super high MP to compensate for the lack of a zoom. Its pretty amazing how you can zoom in 12MP pics and still have plenty of details.

a 12MP digital zoom will be the same has a 5MP camera with a 3x optical zoom.

Not at all. You obviously don't understand how digital cameras work.

Each pixel in a 12 MP array is smaller than the pixels in a 5 MP array - if everything else is equal. That degrades the low light capability and increases the noise (exponentially, IIRC).

Given the quality of the lenses in most cell phones, anything above about 3-5 MP is going to reduce the quality of the image, not improve it.

Read the reviews when each version of the iPHone came out. They universally said something like "while the resolution of this iPhone is lower than the competition, the pictures taken by the iPhone are at least as good as anything out there - and better than most).

You're doing exactly what everyone attacking Apple is doing. They pick their one pet specification and assume that if Apple simply increases that one item, the product will be better. Unfortunately, in the real world where there are tradeoffs, that's not the case.
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post #38 of 40
Honestly, I'm more interested in quality than megapixels.
post #39 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

The problem of course is that these high MP cell phone cameras often leave a lot to be desired. Frankly though I have little use for the camera on my iPhone.

Speaking of which Apple could go a long way to improving the iPhones camera by adding an advanced mode. Give us control over exposure and other parameters so we can compose decent shots.

In any event here is hoping for a real improvement inquality which ought to be possible given the rapid pace of innovation. The other thing I'm wondering about is does the vendor change reflect a falling out with the current vendor over the bungled Touch launch? I'm left with the impression that the last minute Touch changes really pissed off management at Apple.

Dave

I use my 3G camera a lot. I've gotten a lot of use out of it. What I find is that in good light and without motion, the pictures look good. Add motion (even move the camera too soon after shooting) or low light and forget it.

I don't need DSLR quality images. I need decent consumer quality...something that can replace a separate consumer grade digital camera and perhaps even take the place of my miniDV camera (the first one being the priority).

Right now, whatever camera it has will be a huge improvement. People that don't have 3Gs or original iPhones tend to forget: There's no zoom or video recording whatsoever, and we still are at 2 MP.

So excited to upgrade!
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post #40 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Networks don't even bother including video calls in the features any more after several failed attempts at building up some hype.

But they are still available for use
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