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Steve Jobs slams Adobe Flash as unfit for modern era - Page 4

post #121 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

You're forgetting . . . He admits that they keep a tight lock on the platform, but this is the web he's talking about. Despite what people think, you don't have to be totally for open technology everywhere.

H.264 isn't exactly open, and Apple helped create it...what do you think will happen once they begin charging for royalties again? Apple is attempting to control how content is shared/distributed; if Flash dies, it benefits them, they want to be the MS of web content, just Google wants to the MS of web portals.

Competition is good, but blindly supporting one company over another is bad. None of these companies are your friends, there's money at stake, that's what they all want.

I have no problem with Flash; HW acceleration works great on my PC, while HTML5 videos may eventually catch on, it's not ready yet, and there's nothing standard or open about H.264, not to mention that there is no GPU acceleration for it yet in a browser. So you still need a beefy CPU in order to have something like HTML5 YT vids playback smoothly at full-screen. I'll have no problem with H.264/HTML5, once it actually matures and becomes viable, and supports GPU acceleration, but in the meantime, Flash is current and working now.

And Adobe just released a beta of Flash that supports the GPU's of some of the newer Nvidia GPU's in Safari and FF. After less than a week of the H.264 GPU API's being available...who was being lazy? Not Adobe, give them an inch, and they'll take it.

SJ sounds a whiny kid, and I wish he would just STFU already.
post #122 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

Apple had to release the kernel as open source. They stole it from FreeBSD!

You can't steal something that's free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

Apple only embraces open source when it benefits them. They are truly the most proprietary company on the face of the planet.

You aren't even being logically consistent in adjacent sentences, let alone with other posts where you claim "Steve Jobs is an egomaniac and a control freak who can't stand the thought of using truly "open" and "free" standards."
  • If they're using them, then Steve can stand them.
  • If they're using them, then they can hardly be the most proprietary company on the face of the planet.
Please stop with the false hyperbole.

Further, you still haven't addressed your completely false claim earlier than HTML5 included H.264 in the spec, and that Steve Jobs was therefore a liar. Steve might be a liar, but certainly not for that reason, because it's complete rubbish.

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post #123 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

[SIZE="2"]Apple had to release the kernel as open source. They stole it from FreeBSD!

You can't steel something that's given away lipshitz!

Read the BSD license. It's not the GPL!

Apple is under no obligation to return anything to the BSD community!

KRR
post #124 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

You believe Flash is open? Really?

Android... Think before you type....


Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

You think any of the Flash phones are going to have anything approaching acceptable battery life for a phone? Really?

Yes... Really...
post #125 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Love all these pro Adobe new members here all of a sudden. Isn't the Adobe coffee break over yet?

You're delusional if you think I support Adobe. I just enjoy pointing out the irony of Steve Jobs calling Flash a closed standard when every aspect of the entire Apple ecosystem is closed, proprietary, and anti-competitive. You can't develop iPhone applications without using XCode. You can't sell your app for the iPhone unless it's approved by der Führer Jobs himself. You can only use iTunes to transfer your media onto an iPod, iPad, or iPhone. You can't have Flash on your iPad. You can't have an HDMI port or Blu-Ray player on your Mac. It seems Mr. Jobs loves dishing out punishment and his followers are some seriously brainwashed masochists!
post #126 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Bad form Steve. Part of your new job as "the man" is that once you've gone on a head kicking mission you can't turn back. You're not the "good guy" anymore, nor can you ever be again.

Just go back to making good products and leave the commentary to those with some credibility.

Who better to comment on why there is no Flash on iDevices than the CEO of that company?
post #127 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

You're delusional if you think I support Adobe. I just enjoy pointing out the irony of Steve Jobs calling Flash a closed standard when every aspect of the entire Apple ecosystem is closed, proprietary, and anti-competitive. You can't develop iPhone applications without using XCode. You can't sell your app for the iPhone unless it's approved by der Führer Jobs himself. You can only use iTunes to transfer your media onto an iPod, iPad, or iPhone. You can't have Flash on your iPad. You can't have an HDMI port or Blu-Ray player on your Mac. It seems Mr. Jobs loves dishing out punishment and his followers are some seriously brainwashed masochists!

Let me try this:



Yeah, feels good! Getting kinda dizzy tho...all my thoughts have gotten messed up...
post #128 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Exaggerate much? Flat out lie.

It's not a lie, Flash is a hog. In my testing of the same exact video files on YouTube Flash 10.1 RC2 still uses 3x to 6x as much processing as the HMTL5 option, depending on the video resolution.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3682/a...s-x-we-test-it
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post #129 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Bad form Steve. Part of your new job as "the man" is that once you've gone on a head kicking mission you can't turn back. You're not the "good guy" anymore, nor can you ever be again.

Just go back to making good products and leave the commentary to those with some credibility.

I think the guy who's always right gets the "credibility."

When Steve Jobs sneezes, the rest of the industry grabs a Kleenex.

That might change in the future, but for now, Steve gets to decide where the rest of us are going. That's what happens when you're in a leadership position.
post #130 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

Apple had to release the kernel as open source. They stole it from FreeBSD!

Nice token open source reference. Here's the truth:

"With the release of Mac OS X for x86 processors, Apple has chosen to not release source to key components of the OS, such as the kernel and all drivers. This means Darwin/x86 is dead in the water, Darwin/ppc has many closed source components and is a deprecated architecture. One has to wonder why Apple even bothers to release non-GPL'd source at all, if it is unwilling to cooperate with external developers to increase their return on investment and accept external bug fixes and features. Even worse, one has to wonder why people would want to donate their time to such a fruitless and pointless cause. "

http://www.synack.net/~bbraun/writing/oshistory.html



Apple only embraces open source when it benefits them. They are truly the most proprietary company on the face of the planet.

Apple failing to understand open source

http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2...rstand_op.html

Using and then contributing to open source software isn't stealing (FreeBSD). That's what it's there for. I liked your initial posts on this topic, but your flailing around a bit.
post #131 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

You believe Flash is open? Really?


You think any of the Flash phones are going to have anything approaching acceptable battery life for a phone? Really?

A few 3 minute news videos per day will do nothing appreciable to battery life.
post #132 of 348
But, without flash it will never be a complete web browsing experience.

Point proven when apples video showed flash elements when 'using' the ipad to browse the web.

It's not being pro flash it's about being pro apple and not wanting someone else to over-take. For John B. I am referring to Android here.
post #133 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fearing View Post

Not sure what you base your claims on. Just your minds dull rumblings when you awake each afternoon? It's a nice collection of completely unsubstantiated guesses. But I like your ability to vent while offering no usefulness.

I'm sorry but I always get a good laugh from his posts. Sometimes I wonder if he really believes the stuff he writes. If he does, that makes them that much funnier.

He reminds me of that one guy on every job that's a fanatical conspiracy theorist. Crazy as a bat, and you just can't seem to get enough of their amazing stories.
post #134 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by bytor View Post

Hmmmm...

Which iPhone is he using where there is 10 hours of video playing?

Why the German Beer Garden Express iPhone 4, of course!

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post #135 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

You're delusional if you think I support Adobe. I just enjoy pointing out the irony of Steve Jobs calling Flash a closed standard when every aspect of the entire Apple ecosystem is closed, proprietary, and anti-competitive. You can't develop iPhone applications without using XCode. You can't sell your app for the iPhone unless it's approved by der Führer Jobs himself. You can only use iTunes to transfer your media onto an iPod, iPad, or iPhone. You can't have Flash on your iPad. You can't have an HDMI port or Blu-Ray player on your Mac. It seems Mr. Jobs loves dishing out punishment and his followers are some seriously brainwashed masochists!

There is nothing wrong with being a closed system if its a good system. Steve isn't trying to claim iPod/iPhone/iPad/etc is OPEN. He actually said the opposite. But the WEB is a different story. Flash is a proprietary plugin, no matter how widely used in the web it is, its still "closed". Adobe owns and controls all aspects of Flash development. Apple is saying that the WEB should be open.

Flash != Open
iPhone OS != Open
BUT
HTML5/CSS/Javascript == Open
Adobe wants everyone to use their proprietary flash to instead of HTML5/CSS/Javascript.
Apple wants everyone to use HTML5/CSS/Javascript

When it comes to the Web, Jobs is right.
post #136 of 348
I like living in the Adobe fantasy world where every mobile device but Apple's runs Flash fine with no degradation of battery life and excellent performance. It's obviously trivially easy to do, since Adobe has had the technology ready to go since the beginning of '09 I mean mid '09 I mean late '09 I mean early '10 I mean mid '10 I mean late '10.

Come on, Apple, get with the program!
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post #137 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

I just enjoy pointing out the irony of Steve Jobs calling Flash a closed standard when every aspect of the entire Apple ecosystem is closed, proprietary, and anti-competitive. You can't develop iPhone applications without using XCode.

You can write iPhone apps completely in HTML5. There are even a few special tags (optional) you can use on your page to get the same kind of fancy transitions as a full on Objective C app has.

So Apple gives you two dev kits for the iPhone in effect, and one of them is fully open. Remember when the iPhone first came out, the HTML apps were the only kind you could do!
post #138 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's not a lie, Flash is a hog. In my testing of the same exact video files on YouTube Flash 10.1 RC2 still uses 3x to 6x as much processing as the HMTL5 option, depending on the video resolution.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3682/a...s-x-we-test-it

The lie is a blank Flash document uses 120%. Even my most complex Flash apps start out at maybe 50% on launch and run at a sustained 20%. I can make HTML5 canvas tag use a sustained 77% on a quad core Mac Pro. I have a stupid test page that I wrote just to see if I could max it out. I was able to bring the machine to a crawl using a really bad javascript loop but the browser is smart enough to stop the script and open an alert box. But with just piling on canvas tags (6) and animating them, HTML5 becomes very CPU intensive just like Flash.

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post #139 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

You're delusional if you think I support Adobe. I just enjoy pointing out the irony of Steve Jobs calling Flash a closed standard when every aspect of the entire Apple ecosystem is closed, proprietary, and anti-competitive. You can't develop iPhone applications without using XCode. You can't sell your app for the iPhone unless it's approved by der Führer Jobs himself. You can only use iTunes to transfer your media onto an iPod, iPad, or iPhone. You can't have Flash on your iPad. You can't have an HDMI port or Blu-Ray player on your Mac. It seems Mr. Jobs loves dishing out punishment and his followers are some seriously brainwashed masochists!

Yep, you've made it clear that you don't understand the differences among things like "closed" and "proprietary" and "free", or things like "platforms", "operating systems", and "the web", so it's not surprising that many things would strike you as ironic. Being massively clueless will do that.
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post #140 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I like living in the Adobe fantasy world where every mobile device but Apple's runs Flash fine with no degradation of battery life and excellent performance. It's obviously trivially easy to do, since Adobe has had the technology ready to go since the beginning of '09 I mean mid '09 I mean late '09 I mean early '10 I mean mid '10 I mean late '10.

Come on, Apple, get with the program!

In the future. Not right now. I work at a digital agency we're developing on both Android and Iphone. Which means for an ongoing comparison. Iphone still leads in my opinion but the gap is really closing.

Web browsing on Android is solidly improving. The UX is getting to a par with Apple, and now they offer the choice of drag and drop of files, usable flash (I say usable because windows mobile included it but it didn't matter because it wasn't usable). Basically within 12 months all of the strengths and none of the weaknesses. This can be spotted and addressed if Apple want to.
post #141 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

You're delusional if you think I support Adobe. I just enjoy pointing out the irony of Steve Jobs calling Flash a closed standard when every aspect of the entire Apple ecosystem is closed, proprietary, and anti-competitive. You can't develop iPhone applications without using XCode. You can't sell your app for the iPhone unless it's approved by der Führer Jobs himself. You can only use iTunes to transfer your media onto an iPod, iPad, or iPhone. You can't have Flash on your iPad. You can't have an HDMI port or Blu-Ray player on your Mac. It seems Mr. Jobs loves dishing out punishment and his followers are some seriously brainwashed masochists!

There's truth in this, and it's a truth that Apple users have to like or lump. But the web is a different story.

Apple's ecosystem, Apple controls it.
No party should have as much influence over the web as Adobe does right now. The stance that Apple is taking had helped to revise that power, whether that was their ultimate intention or not.

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post #142 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

Nobody but geeks will even know the letter exists. This is hardly national news.

It's on FoxNews and guardian.co.uk already. Not to mention several tech sites. Which people do read. Not just geeks.
post #143 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes-99 View Post

It's going too far for a U turn. I'd really hoped this would get sorted... As the spec of handsets gets better and better they're far more able to run flash easily. There was an argument for what Steve is saying but every day that passes makes it less relevant.

Quote:
My business partner has an HTC desire (ugly handset) but the browsing on it includes flash, and it's absolutely great.

It has Flash Lite 4, not Flash. Being able to see Flash ads and play a very, very small selection of games designed for Flash Lite is NOT running Flash. This is the problem and proof that Adobe has been lethargic on their Flash monopoly. Apple and MS are the saviours getting Adobe to actually do something about Flash. If not for Silverlight and the iPhone Flash would be even farther behind than it is now.

Quote:
This is history repeating. Apple are going to go down a closed path while someone else develops a parallel open path and they will overtake eventually. Apple innovate, but the control that leads to that innovation will eventually lead to them being surpassed.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, but now you're just blatantly lying. Apple is going down an open path by supporting open web standards. They even developed a browser engine that would be effective for mobiles while offering a rich browser experience. Adobe's Flash is proprietary and closed. Being developed to run on all platforms does NOT make it open.

Quote:
It's only going to take one really nice Android handset with drag and drop and flash integration and huge swathes will move over because they are copying all of the strengths but leaving out the draw backs. I've seen it and used it and Android in itself is actually really good and getting better.

Playing video over Flash is not "leaving out the drawbacks". Just wait until Flash 10.1 finally comes around. Even the Nexus One with its 1GHz processor and 512MB RAM will not be able to play a 480p video from Hulu. Just check out the Joojoo or a netbook which is on a much more capable Atom processor to see how much of a resource hog it is. Once it finally does playback without stuttering you then have power issues. You can test this yourself with YouTube under HTML5 and Flash on a notebook.

Question: If this is all Apple's fault and Flash has been around and available since before the iPhone then why is that Flash is STILL not yet released for the OPEN Android that was well known before the iPhone was officially announced. Seems to me, that even if Apple agreed to allow Flash 10.1 on the iPhone the FACT that it's still not on Android means that Adobe is playing a lot of catch up. That is even before you take into consideration just how bad Flash is for Mac OS X.
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post #144 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes-99 View Post

But, without flash it will never be a complete web browsing experience.

This "complete" stuff is extremely subjective, and is the last refuge of the defeated.

If you're talking surfing porn on your mobile device, then yes, you're potential orgasm will be incomplete or severely impacted. It might be a rather floppy situation.

Otherwise, it all depends on the sites you visit. Many of the major sites have moved or are moving to HTML5, YouTube among them. Everyone is getting in line (perhaps apart from BangBros., YouJ*zz, and M*lfslist, etc.) to make their content iPad friendly. The web-browsing experience for all is about to get pretty damn complete. So why be without Apple-device goodness when everyone's moving in Apple's direction?

You're either on the Apple train or you're doing it wrong. Developers move in whatever direction the big dollar-signs are. Right now, and for the foreseeable future, it's all in Apple's direction.
post #145 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

"While Adobe's Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system."

Wow, that's rich! One proprietary dinosaur of a company bad-mouthing another. Apple is just as proprietary as Adobe, if not more so. Nice try, Steve!

That's the best answer you could come up with?!?!?

There are a hell of a lot of valid points in Jobs' letter, which you ignore. Instead, you just want to be snarky?

Thompson
post #146 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I disagree with this.

Apple doesn't need to tell developers how to write apps. Let the USERS decide the winners and losers as far as apps on the iPhone goes. If developers use inferior tools and produce inferior apps, compared to apps written with proper tools leveraging all the APIs, they will be rejected by users. This is how it ought to be IMO.

Photoshop is unique in that it has no competitors and has been allowed by Adobe to languish on the Mac platform. I don't think that'll happen with the iPhone because the app environment is too competitive. How many iPhone apps have no competitor?

Telling developers how to write their apps just pisses them off. It may have the undesired effect of driving them to other platforms.

There is no evidence of that at all. In fact, it appears to be the other way around.

As for Mac developers, we love it. Apples SDKs are a god-send. Follow the guidelines, use the provide tools and let your creative bent be the final judge.

If it weren't for Apple's directions, the App store would not be so successful. Sure, not every app is to everybody's liking, but if the developer doesn't make the cream come to the top, somebody else will.

Why allow inferior tools? Why allow unproven APIs? Same reason why the millions of PC apps aren't worth shit. Not that some Mac apps aren't equally bad, it is just a fact that the more loose the controls are there are the more bad the PC apps are. The majority of them don't work on the latest Window's OS. And worse they bring with them a degree of insecurity, and the consequences of which Apple or those of us who understand it, will not accept.
post #147 of 348
Awesome and dead on!
I should send Steve Jobs the link in my signature.
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post #148 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

You're delusional if you think I support Adobe. I just enjoy pointing out the irony of Steve Jobs calling Flash a closed standard when every aspect of the entire Apple ecosystem is closed, proprietary, and anti-competitive. You can't develop iPhone applications without using XCode. You can't sell your app for the iPhone unless it's approved by der Führer Jobs himself. You can only use iTunes to transfer your media onto an iPod, iPad, or iPhone. You can't have Flash on your iPad. You can't have an HDMI port or Blu-Ray player on your Mac. It seems Mr. Jobs loves dishing out punishment and his followers are some seriously brainwashed masochists!

There are DVI to HDMI cables. It's compatible you know that?
You can have a blu-ray burner in your MacPro if you want to.
Who wants a blu ray player in his computer. Blu-ray is COPYRIGHT/DRM disaster.

Have you actually used OSX before?
It runs ADOBE software too you know. Oh ofcourse. Any software company has to ask Steve if they can write software for OSX.
Any company can write software for MacOS.
You can't say the complete ECOSYSTEM is closed.

You talk a lot of trash. And lies. Exact prototype of someone who never used an OSX system before.
post #149 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Yep, you've made it clear that you don't understand the differences among things like "closed" and "proprietary" and "free", or things like "platforms", "operating systems", and "the web", so it's not surprising that many things would strike you as ironic. Being massively clueless will do that.

Kind of ironic, that.
post #150 of 348
nvm.. wasting my time.
post #151 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

No party should have as much influence over the web as Adobe does right now. The stance that Apple is taking had helped to revise that power, whether that was their ultimate intention or not.

The web is Apple's main competitor to iPhone apps. Also Google depends on people staying on the web. One conspiracy theory might go that Apple knows that Flash makes the web passable, so they are trying to kill it, to lower the quality of the web, weakening competition with iPhone apps, and in general getting people off the web and in to apps (iAd!) to disrupt Google's ad revenue/plans.
post #152 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazinlwfl View Post

There is nothing wrong with being a closed system if its a good system. Steve isn't trying to claim iPod/iPhone/iPad/etc is OPEN. He actually said the opposite. But the WEB is a different story. Flash is a proprietary plugin, no matter how widely used in the web it is, its still "closed". Adobe owns and controls all aspects of Flash development. Apple is saying that the WEB should be open.

Flash != Open
iPhone OS != Open
BUT
HTML5/CSS/Javascript == Open
Adobe wants everyone to use their proprietary flash to instead of HTML5/CSS/Javascript.
Apple wants everyone to use HTML5/CSS/Javascript

When it comes to the Web, Jobs is right.

If Steve Jobs believes in a truly "open" web, he shouldn't be supportive of a proprietary video codec like H.264. MPEG LA, of which Apple is a member, owns patents regarding the implementation of said codec and has the right to charge royalties for its use. The reason Steve Jobs used the term "HTML5" instead of "H.264" is because he can get away with claiming HTML5 is open (which it is), even though Apple's implementation includes the use of the H.264 codec for video playback. Since stating H.264 is "open" is patently false, he uses misdirection by saying HTML5 instead. If you fail to understand this, you're a victim of the reality distortion field.

Put simply, you cannot use HTML/CSS/JavaScript to playback video on the web without a codec like Ogg or H.264. Steve Jobs knows this and purposely sidestepped it.
post #153 of 348
@ solipsism

Fair enough, reasoned and valid points. Especially about flash lite. I accept defeat.

The only point I'm trying to make is that Android has stated they will be including full flash (I think in 2.2?) and the pace that the specs of handsets have been increasing in my opinion it will not be an issue in the future, and I had hoped for the possibility of a U turn in the future, this is looking less and less likely.
post #154 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes-99 View Post

Android... Think before you type....

Android itself may be open, but there *are* no Flash players for the various mutations of Android smartphones.

Even if there were, neither the $699 Flash CS5 development environment nor the Flash player are open sourced. Anything that has to be licensed from Adobe is, by definition, "not open".

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes-99 View Post

Yes... Really...

I'm still waiting to see any shipping version of mobile Flash... Until then it's all pretend stuff made up by the Adobe "evangelists". Come back when we can all run benchmarks against an actual deliverable of a mobile Flash player on a mobile platform.

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post #155 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

... If you're talking surfing porn on your mobile device, then yes, you're potential orgasm will be incomplete or severely impacted. It might be a rather floppy situation. ...

Oh, the porn sites are definitely going to switch to HTML5/H.264.

If there's any industry that doesn't care about the technology as long as they make money, it's porn, and sticking with Flash is not what's going to make them the most money.
post #156 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The lie is a blank Flash document uses 120%. Even my most complex Flash apps start out at maybe 50% on launch and run at a sustained 20%. I can make HTML5 canvas tag use a sustained 77% on a quad core Mac Pro. I have a stupid test page that I wrote just to see if I could max it out. I was able to bring the machine to a crawl using a really bad javascript loop but the browser is smart enough to stop the script and open an alert box. But with just piling on canvas tags (6) and animating them, HTML5 becomes very CPU intensive just like Flash.

I've had "simple" Flash sites run my processors to max, and therefore my fans and temps up.

I will agree that Canvas being a processor hog and Canvas ads will likely be a bitch to block once that becomes a standard for browsers. Maybe one day Canvas will be offloaded to the GPU and HW accelerated, but for doing interactive animations Flash will be the de facto standard for many years to come simply by virtue of the creation tools.

That is one aspect of this issue. It's not an all or nothing attack against Flash. HMTL5 offers many things that much better than Flash on any platform. The most notable are the video and audio tags. The other end of this issue is the resources Flash needs, which Jobs addressed. It's just not a good plugin for a pocketable device.
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post #157 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

The web is Apple's main competitor to iPhone apps. Also Google depends on people staying on the web. One conspiracy theory might go that Apple knows that Flash makes the web passable, so they are trying to kill it, to lower the quality of the web, weakening competition with iPhone apps, and in general getting people off the web to disrupt Google's add revenue/plans.

Apple are trying to kill the internet? Wow, that's a new one on me. You'll know it's happened when they take the i out of iMac

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post #158 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by bytor View Post

Hmmmm...

Which iPhone is he using where there is 10 hours of video playing?

My hunch is that Apple has, on the iPhones in their labs, the ability to run apps in isolation (i.e. without any other things going on). And I mean more than just turning off Bluetooth, or 3G, or toggling down brightness, etc, which anybody could do. I mean significantly shutdown other parts of the iPhone system so that they can directly compare codecs (for example) without a bunch of other cruft going on to confuse the answers. In other words, a controlled experiment, rather than an "as used" experiment. Both types of experiments have their uses, obviously.

Maybe Jobs was quoting results from a controlled experiment.

Thompson
post #159 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

The web is Apple's main competitor to iPhone apps. Also Google depends on people staying on the web. One conspiracy theory might go that Apple knows that Flash makes the web passable, so they are trying to kill it, to lower the quality of the web, weakening competition with iPhone apps, and in general getting people off the web to disrupt Google's add revenue/plans.

No one would ever argue that Flash makes the web passable. Flash on the web has or had its place, but at best it made some parts of the web more usable. Other, more open and better performing alternatives are now available.

I also don't agree with the assertion that the web is a competitor to iPhone apps. Web apps will never be able to integrate with the OS as well as native apps, so that isn't really a concern. If Apple were worried about web apps in general, they wouldn't be promoting tools like HTML5. I don't think Google really cares what the medium for their ads is, so long as the ads get served. iAd is definitely a shot at Google ad revenue, but that is a separate issue.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
Reply
post #160 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

I'm pretty surprised he felt compelled to write this letter. If Adobe Flash is going to circle the drain, let it. If not, so what? Adobe makes products that complement the Mac, why call them out?

Because there is a great deal of angst in the community, including the user community, that wants to know WHY Apple has made this choice. To many, it doesn't seem right, fair, or reasonable. My kids want to know why they can't play on their "Poptropica" accounts. (I still need to check whether there's an App for that, Doh!) And my wife misses her favorite online Mahjong game. (None of the other implementations we can find measure up somehow.)

This letter serves as the beginning of answering the questions that are floating around. I certainly appreciate the decision more now, and I wasn't even that much against it to begin with.

Thompson
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