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Steve Jobs slams Adobe Flash as unfit for modern era - Page 7

post #241 of 348
I think I agree with Steve's entire letter except for this part:

"Mac OS X has been shipping for almost 10 years now, Adobe just adopted it fully (Cocoa) two weeks ago"

When Steve first announced Carbon and Cocoa he said that Carbon was going to be where most software would be written initially. Go look up that expo on YouTube. He made it very clear. In fact weren't Apple's iApps just rewritten for Cocoa last year in Snow Leopard?!? It seems like I started hearing about third party apps being rewritten for Cocoa about 2-3 years ago. Steve's 10 year time frame seems grossly exaggerated. I am pretty sure that Lightroom has always been Cocoa and that came out several years ago.
post #242 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I never said Apple DON"T provide good development tools.

I said that's ALL that is necessary to ensure their adoption. No need for SDK restrictions, arm twisting and guns pointed at people's heads.

And some tools that are restricted by Apple's new SDK agreement are capable of producing good iPhone apps. Case in point, Now Playing. Consistently regarded as the best movie app on the iPhone. Apparently in was developed using tools that are forbidden by the SDK agreement.

How is that a 'good' thing for the platform?

Steve articulated very well why Apple needs to become the sole provider of the SDKs (i.e. the development tools) for the iPhone platform (and OS X too, for that matter). I gave a particular example of it. If that's not enough to sink in, then I don't know what will.

That's all I'll say on this aspect of the topic.

Thompson
post #243 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

You should read the replies in this thread.

Now developers aren't vowing to leave in mass but its pretty obvious that there's a lot of discomfort associated with the new SDK agreement.

I really believe that users are smart enough to figure out the good apps from the bad. IMO, when you have a robust platform like the iPhone/iPad currently enjoys these restrictions seem unnecessary. I can understand Apple's concerns but they are fighting an imaginary enemy. The iPhone platform enjoys success that the Mac never had. Apple just needs to create the best possible tools they can and the developers will use them. They aren't stupid either.

Did you actually read the link you supplied. I tried but I didn't see anyone that was actually ever a Mac developer. Well there was one who was upset that his 3-day effort was turned down. Most weren't even developers, were PCrs, didn't have the hardware necessary to even start or just plain ignorant of what was involved or required.
post #244 of 348
And do-it-yourself home gardens fall short of the mass production of today's chemically altered farms, but that doesn't mean that a few of us still like to do things the old fashioned way and grow our own fresh produce. If it works, don't fix it. Just because something is "NEW" or "POPULAR" doesn't make it right for everyone.

"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing its best night and day to make you everybody else, means to fight the hardest battle which any human being can fight, and never stop fighting." E.E. Cummings
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post #245 of 348
Steve Jobs talking about "Open Standards" is just a load of rhetoric. Neither Apple nor Adobe is an "open" company, but both have elements of an open platform in their closed business model - Adobe in the fact that it's not platform specific, and there's no "big brother" watching what you do with their product a la Apple, while Apple supports a few open standards (but not in the realm of Audio. In that area, they only support their own proprietary format + mp3s.)

Incidentally, Flash isn't competing with HTML5, since that's just a markup language. It's actually competing with h264. But, since that's an "old" codec, Steve is highlighting HTML5, since that's the "future", at least that's what he wants us to believe. I remember when XHTML2.0 was the future?

By denying Flash, Apple is eliminating the possibility of people writing apps in flash, and then porting them to both the iPhone and Android. Jobs knows that the strongest selling point of the iPhone is the app store, and he wants to protect it's exclusivity. Instead, he strategically makes it more difficult to write for both platforms at the same time.

I think the real kicker in Steve's essay is that he's implying the PC era is in the past, while the mobile era is the future... I guess that's why Apple has been shafting the professional end of the market with slow and toned down MacbookPro and MacPro updates... Slowly fazing out of computers and putting the emphasis on consumer electronics, I guess...
post #246 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Steve Jobs talking about "Open Standards" is just a load of rhetoric. ...

While on the other hand, this is factual prose? Seriously?

Almost everything you say here is either wrong or wildly exaggerated and you are taking Steve Jobs to task for his "rhetoric"???? Yikes!
post #247 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

I think the real kicker in Steve's essay is that he's implying the PC era is in the past, while the mobile era is the future... I guess that's why Apple has been shafting the professional end of the market with slow and toned down MacbookPro and MacPro updates... Slowly fazing out of computers and putting the emphasis on consumer electronics, I guess...

He's made no secret of where he thinks the market is going, both before and after he rejoined Apple. It is, after all, Apple inc. now and instead of Apple Computers.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #248 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

Did you actually read the link you supplied. I tried but I didn't see anyone that was actually ever a Mac developer. Well there was one who was upset that his 3-day effort was turned down. Most weren't even developers, were PCrs, didn't have the hardware necessary to even start or just plain ignorant of what was involved or required.

Yeah, have you ever heard of Now Playing? Pocket Flicks?

The developer is Metasyntactic. He posted numerous times in the thread.

Shamyl Zakariya, Brad Oliver, fitten, Ian Wood are all developers as well (or claim to be and I have no reason to believe otherwise).

Did you read the thread?
post #249 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

"While Adobe's Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system."

Wow, that's rich! One proprietary dinosaur of a company bad-mouthing another. Apple is just as proprietary as Adobe, if not more so. Nice try, Steve!


"Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open"
post #250 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Steve articulated very well why Apple needs to become the sole provider of the SDKs (i.e. the development tools) for the iPhone platform (and OS X too, for that matter). I gave a particular example of it. If that's not enough to sink in, then I don't know what will.

If you accept Steve's word as the gospel then fine.

I think there is room for other reasonable opinions on this matter.
post #251 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Steve Jobs talking about "Open Standards" is just a load of rhetoric. Neither Apple nor Adobe is an "open" company, but both have elements of an open platform in their closed business model - Adobe in the fact that it's not platform specific, and there's no "big brother" watching what you do with their product a la Apple, while Apple supports a few open standards (but not in the realm of Audio. In that area, they only support their own proprietary format + mp3s.)

Incidentally, Flash isn't competing with HTML5, since that's just a markup language. It's actually competing with h264. But, since that's an "old" codec, Steve is highlighting HTML5, since that's the "future", at least that's what he wants us to believe. I remember when XHTML2.0 was the future?

By denying Flash, Apple is eliminating the possibility of people writing apps in flash, and then porting them to both the iPhone and Android. Jobs knows that the strongest selling point of the iPhone is the app store, and he wants to protect it's exclusivity. Instead, he strategically makes it more difficult to write for both platforms at the same time.

I think the real kicker in Steve's essay is that he's implying the PC era is in the past, while the mobile era is the future... I guess that's why Apple has been shafting the professional end of the market with slow and toned down MacbookPro and MacPro updates... Slowly fazing out of computers and putting the emphasis on consumer electronics, I guess...

I think everything you stated is incorrect.
  • Mp3 isn't open
  • You didn't mention AAC, WAV, WMA or AIFF that are in iTunes and not owned by Apple. Only ALAC is.
  • H.264 is not "old" is the best codec available and still ramping up in usage
  • Flash isn't competing with H.264 because Flash also can use H.264. Flash for video is competing with HTML5's video tag.
  • Apple isn't denying Flash as noted by Macs being shipped with Flash and even creating an API that seems specifically geared for Adobe to make use of with H.264 decoding in Flash v10.1
  • Apple is also not allowing Flash apps turned iPhone app using CS5, which does make these Flash apps and therefore does make Apple money so the App Store strangelhold argument doesn't make sense.
  • Apple has created JS frameworks to make webpages look and feel like an iPhone app so, again, the argument that it's all about the App Store strangelhold argument doesn't make sense.
  • Writing for both platforms has never worked out and Jobs arguments against it are mirrored by the many comments stated well before this letter.
  • Because one arm of a business is more sucessful does not mean that the other arms are being cut off. Mac sales are at an all time high and Apple has made many innovations to make the Mac the best choice for my needs.
  • Even the idea that Macs are being fazed out is beyond silly when Apple reportedly makes more profit from PC sales than any other PC vendor by far.
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post #252 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

I'm pretty surprised he felt compelled to write this letter. If Adobe Flash is going to circle the drain, let it. If not, so what? Adobe makes products that complement the Mac, why call them out?

How about because Adobe and most of the rest of the tech world has been criticizing Apple with no reply or defense (until now)?
post #253 of 348
I might be a bit late to the party in this thread, but allow me to succinctly summarize this love letter to Adobe:

Steve: "Flash, not so magical."

post #254 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Steve Jobs talking about "Open Standards" is just a load of rhetoric. Neither Apple nor Adobe is an "open" company,

Where did he say Apple is an open company. He said he wants the internet to be open.

Quote:
Incidentally, Flash isn't competing with HTML5, since that's just a markup language. It's actually competing with h264. But, since that's an "old" codec,

Flash isn't competing with H.264, Flash uses H.264. Flash is competing with HTML5, which also uses H.264.

How do you figure H.264 is old, its only been in wide use for the past five years or so.

Quote:
By denying Flash, Apple is eliminating the possibility of people writing apps in flash, and then porting them to both the iPhone and Android. Jobs knows that the strongest selling point of the iPhone is the app store, and he wants to protect it's exclusivity. Instead, he strategically makes it more difficult to write for both platforms at the same time.

He clearly explained why he did not like cross platform ports. It had nothing to do with protecting App Store dominance. Apple has done nothing to stop developers from developing apps for both iPhone and Android.

Quote:
I think the real kicker in Steve's essay is that he's implying the PC era is in the past, while the mobile era is the future...

Sales of mobile devices dwarf sales of PC's. When a new market is growing and an old market is shrinking. You generally would say the new market is the future.
post #255 of 348
Can someone please tell Stevie that h.264 is just as proprietary as flash?
post #256 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post


Perhaps, but Steve Jobs claiming H.264 is "open" is an absolute falsehood. It is nothing of the sort. That's why Firefox and Opera are not adopting it.


"H.264 is neither free nor open-source. If...you want to use H.264 to serve HTML5 video in your browser, you need to pay MPEG LA, the owners of the codec, a $5 million licensing fee. This has raised some eyebrows by the likes of Mozilla Firefox, who want HTML5s video compression standard to be the free, open-source Ogg Theora. Their argument, summarized, is its foolish to build the next decades internet video standards upon the back of a licensed codec when theres a free alternative that works nearly as well."

http://www.cultofmac.com/h-264-will-...ugh-2016/28982

"nearly as well"

Weak!

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post #257 of 348
Oops, couldn't pass up a response on this one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

If you accept Steve's word as the gospel then fine.

As I said, I have lived it through experience with third party development tools (CodeWarrior) getting in the way of smooth platform transitions. I'm not blindly accepting anything, especially as gospel. Now you are just being snarky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I think there is room for other reasonable opinions on this matter.

You have yet to demonstrate that you even understand the actual issue with third party SDKs and how paralyzing they can be to platform momentum. So your opinion is of questionable authority.

Thompson
post #258 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

If you accept Steve's word as the gospel then fine.

You make it sound like the everyone's position was formed because of this letter when the Steve's comments are just reinforcing what most of us have been saying about Flash since 2007.
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post #259 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Well, OK, I suppose I jumped the gun on that one. (Although I still have my doubts.) In any case...

The HP Slate is not even shipping. Detail specs are not verifiable. How can it be used in a present tense argument? How can it be used in ANY argument outside of speculation?

Thompson

Currently release date appears to be June, so it is most likely already being produced in advance of release. I'd say it is out of the prototype phase. Specs have been previously leaked from a presentation HP gave internally.

http://www.devicemag.com/2010/04/06/...e-date-leaked/

I never said it could be used in a present tense, I was just trying to correct your statement about it's expected battery life. Given that a lot of devices seem to give 80% of the rated lifetime, that would mean 4-5 hours.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

I think the real kicker in Steve's essay is that he's implying the PC era is in the past, while the mobile era is the future... I guess that's why Apple has been shafting the professional end of the market with slow and toned down MacbookPro and MacPro updates... Slowly fazing out of computers and putting the emphasis on consumer electronics, I guess...

How are MBPs not "mobile"? The laptop market has been exploding for a few years now, the notebook market has been slowing down, smartphone sales continue to climb, the iPad and a bunch of other new tablet devices are all out this year. I don't see how anyone could not agree that we're moving toward more mobility in our computing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You make it sound like the everyone's position was formed because of this letter when the Steve's comments are just reinforcing what most of us have been saying about Flash since 2007.

Only 2007? Flash has been awful for a lot longer than that Directly related to the iPhone sure 2007 works.
post #260 of 348
I would like everyone to read Adobe's CEO response to this:
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/04/...ith-adobe-ceo/

While Steve is confident in his company, this guy just sounds arrogant. There is a difference.
post #261 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Only 2007? Flash has been awful for a lot longer than that Directly related to the iPhone sure 2007 works.

In regards to it being a resource hog and crash prone, sure, but I was focusing on why it shouldn't be on a pocketable ARM-based device with very limited performance and battery life, which seems to be the focus on Steve's letter.
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post #262 of 348
What if Adobe rewrote Flash to use hardware acceleration, doubled the battery life and added touch support. Would Apple approve of Flash then?
post #263 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Yeah, have you ever heard of Now Playing? Pocket Flicks?

The developer is Metasyntactic. He posted numerous times in the thread. [I read all of them. He has a issue from the beginning. Anybody that continues to defy the SDK as much as he does and gets a couple of dozen rejections because of it just doesn't get it.]

Shamyl Zakariya, Brad Oliver, fitten, Ian Wood are all developers as well (or claim to be and I have no reason to believe otherwise). [Better check again]

Did you read the thread?

In all of that, there is no indication of a mass migration to other platforms. You want to play hardball, why the hell should anybody have to use softball rules just because you can't run the extra distance between bases.
post #264 of 348
Zero hope for some people.

Spell reality out in black and white and they still prefer to believe tosh.
post #265 of 348
I've had ClickToFlash installed for quite a while now, and I see that most of the time the only thing I seem to be missing are the numerous ads on the majority of sites.

As to the Adobe CEO's response, I find some of his comments disingenuous - finding Job's comments "amusing" and not really addressing Steve's comments. How, exactly, is Flash not closed? I have to buy a program for hundreds of dollars from Adobe to work with it. I can use any text editor for HTML. Remember we are discussing issues/languages with the web.
post #266 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKWalsh4 View Post

I would like everyone to read Adobe's CEO response to this:
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/04/...ith-adobe-ceo/

While Steve is confident in his company, this guy just sounds arrogant. There is a difference.

This was my favorite comment:

Quote:
Speaking about Mr. Jobs's assertion that Adobe is the No. 1 cause of Mac crashes, Mr. Narayan says if Adobe crashes Apple, that actually has something "to do with the Apple operating system."

I'd like to hear him explain the logic behind that reply
post #267 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onhka View Post

In all of that, there is no indication of a mass migration to other platforms.

Nice straw man.

Do you remember what I said in post 178?

Let me refresh your memory: ":Now developers aren't vowing to leave in mass but its pretty obvious that there's a lot of discomfort associated with the new SDK agreement."

The discomfort and ill feelings that the new SDK agreement is real. It may amount to nothing. But it is unnecessary, IMO. It doesn't ensure that iPhone apps are 'good'. It only makes it difficult for developers to port apps to other platforms and takes a tools away from them.
post #268 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Nice straw man.

Do you remember what I said in post 178?

Let me refresh your memory: ":Now developers aren't vowing to leave in mass but its pretty obvious that there's a lot of discomfort associated with the new SDK agreement."

The discomfort and ill feelings that the new SDK agreement is real. It may amount to nothing. But it is unnecessary, IMO. It doesn't ensure that iPhone apps are 'good'. It only makes it difficult for developers to port apps to other platforms and takes a tools away from them.

I think most of the "discomfort" is with developers who planned to avoid developing in Objective-C. They're uncomfortable because their plans to ride the iPhone gravy train are in confusion.
post #269 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You make it sound like the everyone's position was formed because of this letter when the Steve's comments are just reinforcing what most of us have been saying about Flash since 2007.

I've no gripe with keeping Flash off the iPhone.

I simply contend that the new SDK agreement, limiting the way apps are developed, is wrong. Some tools which are used to develop good iPhone apps are excluded which may lead to some good apps being rejected.
post #270 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Currently release date appears to be June, so it is most likely already being produced in advance of release. I'd say it is out of the prototype phase. Specs have been previously leaked from a presentation HP gave internally.

http://www.devicemag.com/2010/04/06/...e-date-leaked/

I never said it could be used in a present tense, I was just trying to correct your statement about it's expected battery life. Given that a lot of devices seem to give 80% of the rated lifetime, that would mean 4-5 hours.

As far as I'm concerned, if a ship date hasn't been at least publicly confirmed, then it's still in the realm of "speculation" and "could be". Heck, even your first paragraph above was caveated with "appears to be", "most likely", and "I'd say". These qualitative assertions of probability may be good enough for YOU, but I've seen too many slipping ship dates in the tech world - not to mention unexpected plug pulls - to put much credence in this kind of data. FWIW, I'm similarly skeptical of "leaks", "rumors", and "specs" related to unannounced Apple products as well. That even includes the Gizmodo "iPhone prototype"... although I must confess that the circumstances surrounding that particular story are far more compelling than your standard Apple scoop. :-)

Bottom line: whatever scarce info you can currently point to about the HP Slate doesn't really go very far in terms of proving the point that I was responding to, namely that Flash works just fine on the HP Slate without draining its battery. We really don't know that. There are plenty of existing devices that we can test on though. So why bother appealing to a "leak"?

Thompson
post #271 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I've no gripe with keeping Flash off the iPhone.

I simply contend that the new SDK agreement, limiting the way apps are developed, is wrong. Some tools which are used to develop good iPhone apps are excluded which may lead to some good apps being rejected.

The reasons for not requiring devs to use Xcode makes sense. Apple has been done this road before and has lost considerably because of it. While it short term it may seem bad the long term is good for consumers.
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post #272 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Bottom line: whatever scarce info you can currently point to about the HP Slate doesn't really go very far in terms of proving the point that I was responding to, namely that Flash works just fine on the HP Slate without draining its battery. We really don't know that. There are plenty of existing devices that we can test on though. So why bother appealing to a "leak"?

With a device that doesn't exist you can make whatever claim you like and no one can refute it.
post #273 of 348
This is a really poorly written title.

The letter published by Steve Jobs looked fine to me. He laid out some decent arguments for not using flash.

I did not see him "slam: Adobe.

Maybe you should publish this article under a different title?

JDS
post #274 of 348
I am a web designer, emphasis on "designer" not programmer. I have used Flash, but not any more. it is a pain to keep up with the Flash Player changes and support people on older computers that don't have the latest Flash Player and/or can't even run it. I have been hired many times to convert Flash websites to html/CSS sites (and well before this all came to a head, before the iPhone was even released) This is because Flash embedded content cannot be searched by search engines and all of my clients want good SEO results.

The little bit of Flash I had left in my sites that were videos and slideshows have all been replaced using Javascript and html5, my video is either embedded YouTube or html5 with a Flash fallback for browsers not ready for html5.

It took a little time, but it was pretty painless and I don't have to mess with the Flash Player which I think is complete junk, ALWAYS have hated it and now I am pretty much free of it!! (BTW I still use the Flash program for animation but export as a .mov file not a .swf file) So, if I can do it and I am not even a programmer, it can't be that hard to switch if needed. All of the big media sites have and I am sure this trend will continue. It is not going to take five years for html5 to catch on as some people say, Microsoft even said they will support it, so it will be faster than you think.

My clients don't care what technology I use to make their sites, they want them to work period. They want them to work with SEO techniques AND on the iPad et all. Html5 and javascript (which BTW, works already in current html standards) addresses both issues with no problem, the ONLY thing that IS a problem IS FLASH. Well, not on my websites, not any more.

And I do agree it is Adobe's Flash that is proprietary! How can it not be? I have heard there are other programs to make Flash files, but I personally don't know what they are (at least not for the Mac platform) or how well they run. How much is the upgrade for the current CS5??? Quite a bit, and they put more Flash into Indesign of all things! No thanks, I just finally started using CS4, not going to pay any more right now thank you very much.
post #275 of 348
Damn right Steve.

Frankly, I don't give a shit about flash one way or the other, I just want functional, streamlined and less crash happy versions of the Creative Suite. I know we are all upset about having to switch over video players, but come on Adobe! Use your head!

Throw a great and intuitive HTML5 building section into dreamweaver OR 'flash' and market the shit outta it. The 'improvements' in photoshop, indesign and illustrator have been so modest over the last three iterations that you MUST have some time on your hands. Speaking of which, why not give me full 64 bit support across the line while you are at it? Turns out that InDesign slows down a bit when you have a 100+ page document, text formatting STILL can't be simply copied and pasted from Illustrator to InDesign, etc. There is SO MUCH WORK to be done on your flagship products, so its not like there's nothing for you to do when flash exits the picture. Don't worry, you won't be bored! Thanks Adoples!
post #276 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

You have yet to demonstrate that you even understand the actual issue with third party SDKs and how paralyzing they can be to platform momentum. So your opinion is of questionable authority.

What I do understand is that fine iPhone apps will no longer be in compliance with Apple's SDK.

Then they may not exist on the iPhone platform.

But I guess we can count on you to write new ones to replace them. Right?

After all you're rilly, rilly knowledgeable and your 'opinion' is the one that matters most. Right?
post #277 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Wow, dude, way to carry the standard for Flash! I'm sure Lee Brimelow is brimming with pride.

You forgot about all the tools to autogenerate Flash banner ads.

For the record, we all think Flash still sucks. And nobody cares that you are Flash's biggest fan. Just sayin'...

I'm not a fan. It sucks. It just sucks less than anything else out there, including your attempt at posting flame bait.
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post #278 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

You believe Flash is open? Really?


You think any of the Flash phones are going to have anything approaching acceptable battery life for a phone? Really?

my iphone gets horrible battery life. Whatever you're attempting to imply, it's failing.
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post #279 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

What I do understand is that fine iPhone apps will no longer be in compliance with Apple's SDK.

According to Adobe's CEO, about 100 out of 200,000. You are being overly dramatic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Then they may not exist on the iPhone platform.

If they really are that good, they'll be back. The AppStore is the biggest game in town. Now you are being naive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

But I guess we can count on you to write new ones to replace them. Right?

If the apps are really that good, then there is a market for them, and the developer will rewrite them using the Apple supported SDK. Because it really is that simple to use. Suggesting that I write them is just you being snarky again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

After all you're rilly, rilly knowledgeable and your 'opinion' is the one that matters most. Right?

More than YOURS, apparently. You still aren't speaking from any knowledge. Look at the three first sentences I responded to:

(1) overly dramatic
(2) naive
(3) snarky

When you really want to score in this debate, bring your "A" game.

Thompson
post #280 of 348
This may have already been said but, at first glance the two most important complaints of Adobe's Flash is it is not modern and a resource hog...

...but I see it as Jobs has spent his life 'corralling' incompetant programmers from producing substandard software, apps, interfaces, etc.

All one has to do and pickup any camera, smart phone, cable box, digital picture frame, flat screen TV, stand alone GPS unit or any electronic device not made by Apple and 'navigate' through their crappy, clunky and clumsy SW. It's Sh*te.

Stevo does not want his Apple platform infected with inferior code! Simple as that!
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