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Steve Jobs slams Adobe Flash as unfit for modern era - Page 3

post #81 of 348
Quote:
"Most Flash websites will need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices. If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?"

Except those technologies can't do half of what Flash can and to develop with the canvas tag (which is not really open standards either) takes a zillion times longer to do even the simplest animation. Furthermore to deploy an HTML5 application is more difficult as it is not encapsulated like an swf. It has several bits an pieces, which in some cases, conflict with other parts of the Javascript on a page and is difficult to debug.

I totally agree that Flash is made for PC and not for mobile so no complaint about the lack of Flash there, just the criticism of Flash in general as serving no purpose in today's Internet, that I disagree with. Until there are better development tools for HTML5 and universal browser compatibility, it amounts to nothing more than dumbing down the web. Flash is a much more powerful application platform than javascript and your code can be encrypted so others cannot steal your work. Not so much with Javascript (is possible but trade secret)

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post #82 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post


The fees are only waived until 2016, where after sites serving H.264 internet video will have to pay MPEG LA $5 million. It is not "open" in any respect whatsoever. It is closed and proprietary, just like Flash. You're going from one closed standard in Flash to another in H.264. It's meaningless. And Steve Jobs is a liar. I am not an advocate of Flash or any other proprietary standard. Apple is Adobe is Microsoft, etc.

Oh and, Quadra 610...cute chart.

This one goes out to jobs:

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post #83 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

Keep buying into the lies. SHEEPLE!

Third party IDE's NOT from adobe include:
FlashDevelop
Eclipse with AIR / Flex SDK (Flex is open source and free)
swfmill
swish
SWFTool
haxe
etc...
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_F...rd-party_tools

And if you're talking about alternatives to flash player:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Flash#Playback

You don't need adobe to exist to keep flash rolling, they're just the main company behind the momentum of flash and for obvious reasons. They have the best creative suites and they sell like crazy because they are the best. AIR runs with webkit and HTML5 included. Flash is far less closed than Objective C. Flex is open source. AMF is open source. Eclipse is open source. I'd say Adobe is taking a seriously unjust pounding by a bunch of people who don't know crap about crap.

Wow, dude, way to carry the standard for Flash! I'm sure Lee Brimelow is brimming with pride.

You forgot about all the tools to autogenerate Flash banner ads.

For the record, we all think Flash still sucks. And nobody cares that you are Flash's biggest fan. Just sayin'...

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post #84 of 348
It's going too far for a U turn. I'd really hoped this would get sorted... As the spec of handsets gets better and better they're far more able to run flash easily. There was an argument for what Steve is saying but every day that passes makes it less relevant.

I have an iphone and Macbook along with many other apple products, so please don't think I'm just stirring.

My business partner has an HTC desire (ugly handset) but the browsing on it includes flash, and it's absolutely great.

This is history repeating. Apple are going to go down a closed path while someone else develops a parallel open path and they will overtake eventually. Apple innovate, but the control that leads to that innovation will eventually lead to them being surpassed.

It's only going to take one really nice Android handset with drag and drop and flash integration and huge swathes will move over because they are copying all of the strengths but leaving out the draw backs. I've seen it and used it and Android in itself is actually really good and getting better.

I'm still waiting for the new iphone before I choose though... Obviously
post #85 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

Please, kind Sir, tell me what I don't understand. I understand that Steve Jobs conveniently failed to mention that Apple will make money when a content provider pays the $5 million license fee since they hold patents on the technology. I understand that their "open" industry standard H.264 is just as closed and proprietary as Flash. I understand that Steve Jobs is an egomaniac and a control freak who can't stand the thought of using truly "open" and "free" standards.

False.
http://www.apple.com/opensource/

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post #86 of 348
As a professional designer who has used and relied upon to earn my living, a version of every computer Apple has made since 1985 (except the home oriented "performa" line) and almost every Adobe product for the same amount of time, I REALLY wish Jobs would stop taking such an antagonistic stance against Adobe. Without Adobe, there would have been no Mac as we know it. Without Apple, there would have been no Adobe as we know it.

We get it, Jobs doesn't like Flash. Push Adobe to improve it. Push them to improve their design products. But for Pete's sake, I wish he'd stop poking them in the eye so publicly every chance he gets. All that will do is put their professional design customers in the middle of an unnecessary beef.
post #87 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

And he admits as much. That was the point of his sixth point. It would be very dangerous for Apple to leave control of items like dev tools in the hands of third parties. They could be inferior to Apples, but their convenience might cause a good number of devs to use them. If that happened, whenever Apple rolled out new features and APIs, they could not count on developers taking advantage of them thereby hobbling the massive expenditures of R&D that the put into these new features. If Apple want the iPhone experience for all users to improve as they improve the platform, a dependancy on third party dev tools is extraneous at best. It would massively counter productive in general, for devs and for Apple.

I disagree with this.

Apple doesn't need to tell developers how to write apps. Let the USERS decide the winners and losers as far as apps on the iPhone goes. If developers use inferior tools and produce inferior apps, compared to apps written with proper tools leveraging all the APIs, they will be rejected by users. This is how it ought to be IMO.

Photoshop is unique in that it has no competitors and has been allowed by Adobe to languish on the Mac platform. I don't think that'll happen with the iPhone because the app environment is too competitive. How many iPhone apps have no competitor?

Telling developers how to write their apps just pisses them off. It may have the undesired effect of driving them to other platforms.
post #88 of 348
The biggest crowd to move away from Flash is the hyped people at communication and PR companies. People fully focused on design and publishing has gone down Adobe full throttle and has become heroes. Often also after the companies has paid dearly for education, software and time to get into the Flash game.

My company uses one of them. They are very clever, great designers and outstanding writers. However some of the rather hyped people there has introduced Flash without thinking. It's cool. Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, Acrobat and Flash. When I now ban them from flash they need to rethink totally. The flash guy is suddenly the anti-hero.

Tuff shit.
post #89 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

Please, kind Sir, tell me what I don't understand. I understand that Steve Jobs conveniently failed to mention that Apple will make money when a content provider pays the $5 million license fee since they hold patents on the technology. I understand that their "open" industry standard H.264 is just as closed and proprietary as Flash. I understand that Steve Jobs is an egomaniac and a control freak who can't stand the thought of using truly "open" and "free" standards.

As if we needed more proof of trolling. Creating a new account just to stir things up in a thread and spreading misinformation. Apple owns no H.264 patents, those are all owned by MPEG LA. How is Apple making money in 2016 (if it doesn't get extended or made completely free) on H.264? You haven't provided any evidence of this yet.
post #90 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes-99 View Post

This is history repeating. Apple are going to go down a closed path while someone else develops a parallel open path and they will overtake eventually. Apple innovate, but the control that leads to that innovation will eventually lead to them being surpassed.

You believe Flash is open? Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes-99 View Post

It's only going to take one really nice Android handset with drag and drop and flash integration and huge swathes will move over because they are copying all of the strengths but leaving out the draw backs. I've seen it and used it and Android in itself is actually really good and getting better.

You think any of the Flash phones are going to have anything approaching acceptable battery life for a phone? Really?

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post #91 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

Please, kind Sir, tell me what I don't understand.

Sure, I'd be happy to:

Quote:
I understand that Steve Jobs conveniently failed to mention that Apple will make money when a content provider pays the $5 million license fee since they hold patents on the technology.

That's just gibberish. I don't know if it's because you don't understand or don't care or what. But it's just gibberish. Wrong. False.

Quote:
I understand that their "open" industry standard H.264 is just as closed and proprietary as Flash.

Wrong again, since H.264 is in fact an open standard, the particulars of which are managed by the Motion Pictures Expert Group. It's technically not free, but it is for the next five years at least. In this instance you very clearly don't understand, as in have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote:
I understand that Steve Jobs is an egomaniac and a control freak who can't stand the thought of using truly "open" and "free" standards.

I think that's the only thing you actually have fixed in your brain, and the rest of your semi-incoherent ranting is simply in service to supporting this thesis. That doesn't make the semi-incoherent ranting true or convincing.

Quote:

Nothing you said was funny. I don't think you know what smileys are for. So that's zero for four. Thanks for playing.
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post #92 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes-99 View Post

... This is history repeating. Apple are going to go down a closed path while someone else develops a parallel open path and they will overtake eventually. ...

No, it's not history repeating in any way. First, your characterization of history as, "Apple are going to go down a closed path while someone else develops a parallel open path," is patently incorrect. Secondly, it's exactly the mistakes of history (the real history) that Apple are attempting to avoid here.
post #93 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

Please, kind Sir, tell me what I don't understand. I understand that Steve Jobs conveniently failed to mention that Apple will make money when a content provider pays the $5 million license fee since they hold patents on the technology. I understand that their "open" industry standard H.264 is just as closed and proprietary as Flash. I understand that Steve Jobs is an egomaniac and a control freak who can't stand the thought of using truly "open" and "free" standards.

The question still remains:
Where did SJ claim that H.264 was open-source to which you called him a liar? Even though, it is an open standard.

I'll be expecting an answer
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post #94 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by markb View Post

Isnt iTunes still Carbon based?

The difference, of course, is that iTunes uses between 0.1 and 10% CPU time, depending on what it's doing.

Flash uses up to 120% - just opening a page with no animation and no video.

Sometimes, results DO matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Except those technologies can't do half of what Flash can and to develop with the canvas tag

You (and others) keep saying that - and I keep asking for examples. What can Flash do that open standards can't do?

Before you answer, look at Jobs' Toy Story iAd demo to get an idea of what html 5 is capable of.

Now, what are these great features that REQUIRE Flash?
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post #95 of 348
But that's what I have been saying all along. if the market chooses devices with Flash because they offer Flash, than Flash and Adobe are a winner. If instead no one in mass really cares, than the ENTIRE Flash debate is about Flash developers worrying they have to learn something new.

As it stands their is no overwhelming compelling reason to NEED Flash. None. Zero.

But if it is a thing the market really wants, time will tell. For me, I can't imagine basing a buying decision on if Flash is supported or not. Their are dozens, maybe, hundreds of other issues of greater import.

The biggest concern for Android is the 50 different versions, on 50 different handsets and pads and what is supported when and where. That's their worry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes-99 View Post

It's going too far for a U turn. I'd really hoped this would get sorted... As the spec of handsets gets better and better they're far more able to run flash easily. There was an argument for what Steve is saying but every day that passes makes it less relevant.

I have an iphone and Macbook along with many other apple products, so please don't think I'm just stirring.

My business partner has an HTC desire (ugly handset) but the browsing on it includes flash, and it's absolutely great.

This is history repeating. Apple are going to go down a closed path while someone else develops a parallel open path and they will overtake eventually. Apple innovate, but the control that leads to that innovation will eventually lead to them being surpassed.

It's only going to take one really nice Android handset with drag and drop and flash integration and huge swathes will move over because they are copying all of the strengths but leaving out the draw backs. I've seen it and used it and Android in itself is actually really good and getting better.

I'm still waiting for the new iphone before I choose though... Obviously
post #96 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

"While Adobe's Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system."

Wow, that's rich! One proprietary dinosaur of a company bad-mouthing another. Apple is just as proprietary as Adobe, if not more so. Nice try, Steve!

The description given of flash fits the App Store perfectly.
post #97 of 348
The truth is Apple is going down a road of producing underpowered devices with less features with huge margins and is attempting to convert the entire web to fit their business model.

Steve Jobs published this letter (which just aired on CNBC right now) to keep the war going in the media spotlight as to generate attention for itś device and to get websites to make iPad versions.

Steve is attempting to break a potential gridlock, where customers wont buy iPads because they wont be able to access so many websites based on Flash and web site owners wont bother coding a iPad friendly version because the hit traffic from the iPad is not enough to warrant the change.

Apple fully intends to produce more low powered, high margin devices in the future (laptops) and thus in order to do this they intend to reduce the features of the web itself by leveraging their minority market share and raising media attention.

The fact that over the last year Apple has removed all but one MacBook and introduced a line of flimsy under featured and overpriced 1Ghz iPads is proof of their intentions.

So for Apple the web needs to get less and less capable, I wouldnt be surprised that next year this time Steve would get a hair ball about some other web standard that is ¨A CPU hog¨ and vows to kill it as well.


By the way, the HP Slate, which looks like a iPad, just a tiny bit thicker, happens to run Flash just fine.

So Steve decided to make his hardware thinner, with longer battery life, at the expense of Adobe.

Apple doesnt disclose it´s business plans, and changes up all the time, I´m not surprised it took Adobe 10 years to switch to Cocoa.
post #98 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm View Post

I couldn't have said it better myself. Seriously - I couldn't have.

In my opinion, this is a great PR move on Apple/Steve's part. He shifts attention away from iPhone 4.0 disaster, attempts to silent all of the "it doesn't have Flash" critics, and explains the "WHY" to non-technical folks. Bravo.

Nobody but geeks will even know the letter exists. This is hardly national news.
post #99 of 348
.

Edited by agl82 - 8/7/14 at 5:07am
post #100 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

As a professional designer who has used and relied upon to earn my living, a version of every computer Apple has made since 1985 (except the home oriented "performa" line) and almost every Adobe product for the same amount of time, I REALLY wish Jobs would stop taking such an antagonistic stance against Adobe. Without Adobe, there would have been no Mac as we know it. Without Apple, there would have been no Adobe as we know it.

We get it, Jobs doesn't like Flash. Push Adobe to improve it. Push them to improve their design products. But for Pete's sake, I wish he'd stop poking them in the eye so publicly every chance he gets. All that will do is put their professional design customers in the middle of an unnecessary beef.

I agree with your thoughts here. But, I think Jobs was pretty clear in acknowledging the shared history of the two companies. Also, while I would also like to see this stuff happen in private between the two companies, Adobe is not exactly keeping their thoughts on the matter behind a veil of secrecy. They are publicly shifting all blame on this to Apple. And while it is entirely Apple's decision, it isn't as though Adobe doesn't share some of the responsibility for the decision. They aren't exactly trumpeting that when they make public statements about Flash on the iPhone.

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post #101 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I disagree with this.

Apple doesn't need to tell developers how to write apps. Let the USERS decide the winners and losers as far as apps on the iPhone goes. If developers use inferior tools and produce inferior apps, compared to apps written with proper tools leveraging all the APIs, they will be rejected by users. This is how it ought to be IMO.

Photoshop is unique in that it has no competitors and has been allowed by Adobe to languish on the Mac platform. I don't think that'll happen with the iPhone because the app environment is too competitive. How many iPhone apps have no competitor?

Telling developers how to write their apps just pisses them off. It may have the undesired effect of driving them to other platforms.

Well, disagree if you like, but, letting just anyone decide what your platform will be isn't exactly a recipe for success. Just look at how successful Linux is on the desktop (or how crappy it is, although, it's a great server platform, mostly because the kernel is solid, a part of Linux that is tightly controlled) to see what design by committee produces.
post #102 of 348
Adobe started this war. WHY didn't they quietly work on this. Work with Apple at a high level. Why did they go public with the midget-evangelist-hit men who started throwing tantrums?

This is a SERIOUS corporate issue for Adobe and they have been totally clueless how to deal with this. You WORK with a company, especially when you are the smaller, weaker one.They seemed thrilled to go public and have a hissy fit like an upset 3 year old.

Adobe is responsible for this reply. They needed to chill. RIght now, what's wisest for them is to keep quiet and actually ship a decent Flash mobile product. But stop the war.

How can you say Apple shouldn't respond to what has amounted to months of antagonism from the Adobe and their minion (usually employed by Adobe).


Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

As a professional designer who has used and relied upon to earn my living, a version of every computer Apple has made since 1985 (except the home oriented "performa" line) and almost every Adobe product for the same amount of time, I REALLY wish Jobs would stop taking such an antagonistic stance against Adobe. Without Adobe, there would have been no Mac as we know it. Without Apple, there would have been no Adobe as we know it.

We get it, Jobs doesn't like Flash. Push Adobe to improve it. Push them to improve their design products. But for Pete's sake, I wish he'd stop poking them in the eye so publicly every chance he gets. All that will do is put their professional design customers in the middle of an unnecessary beef.
post #103 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by bytor View Post

Hmmmm...

Which iPhone is he using where there is 10 hours of video playing?

I suspect he meant iPad which can do that for sure as i did it. But I agree no iPhone I have including 3Gs can last that long.
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post #104 of 348
Not sure what you base your claims on. Just your minds dull rumblings when you awake each afternoon? It's a nice collection of completely unsubstantiated guesses. But I like your ability to vent while offering no usefulness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

The truth is Apple is going down a road of producing underpowered devices with less features with huge margins and is attempting to convert the entire web to fit their business model.

Steve Jobs published this letter (which just aired on CNBC right now) to keep the war going in the media spotlight as to generate attention for itś device and to get websites to make iPad versions.

Steve is attempting to break a potential gridlock, where customers wont buy iPads because they wont be able to access so many websites based on Flash and web site owners wont bother coding a iPad friendly version because the hit traffic from the iPad is not enough to warrant the change.

Apple fully intends to produce more low powered, high margin devices in the future (laptops) and thus in order to do this they intend to reduce the features of the web itself by leveraging their minority market share and raising media attention.

The fact that over the last year Apple has removed all but one MacBook and introduced a line of flimsy under featured and overpriced iPads is proof of their intentions.
post #105 of 348
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...-2010/appholes

The droid ad in the beginning my not be simply and act of random irony.
post #106 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

Apple had to release the kernel as open source. They stole it from FreeBSD!

Nice token open source reference. Here's the truth:

"With the release of Mac OS X for x86 processors, Apple has chosen to not release source to key components of the OS, such as the kernel and all drivers. This means Darwin/x86 is dead in the water, Darwin/ppc has many closed source components and is a deprecated architecture. One has to wonder why Apple even bothers to release non-GPL'd source at all, if it is unwilling to cooperate with external developers to increase their return on investment and accept external bug fixes and features. Even worse, one has to wonder why people would want to donate their time to such a fruitless and pointless cause. "

http://www.synack.net/~bbraun/writing/oshistory.html



Apple only embraces open source when it benefits them. They are truly the most proprietary company on the face of the planet.

Apple failing to understand open source

http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2...rstand_op.html

Love all these pro Adobe new members here all of a sudden. Isn't the Adobe coffee break over yet?
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post #107 of 348
Yea, your link to the alternative Flash Players was priceless. Apparently you didn't read it before you posted it. Even Stallman says that alternatives are not as good as Adobe's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

You don't need adobe to exist to keep flash rolling

Except you do. You didn't mention Flash Media Server. Anybody can put a flash file onto their website, but if you need to do heavy duty media serving (like YouTube or Vimeo), video conferencing or live streaming, you need Flash Media Server.
post #108 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

Nobody but geeks will even know the letter exists. This is hardly national news.

mmmm. I wouldn't be so sure. SJ is already established as the top CEO on Planet Earth so just maybe this will get commented on in the WSJ, NYT, CNN etc. ... be worth checking to see over the next few days.
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post #109 of 348
Bad form Steve. Part of your new job as "the man" is that once you've gone on a head kicking mission you can't turn back. You're not the "good guy" anymore, nor can you ever be again.

Just go back to making good products and leave the commentary to those with some credibility.
post #110 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I disagree with this.

Apple doesn't need to tell developers how to write apps. Let the USERS decide the winners and losers as far as apps on the iPhone goes. If developers use inferior tools and produce inferior apps, compared to apps written with proper tools leveraging all the APIs, they will be rejected by users. This is how it ought to be IMO.

Photoshop is unique in that it has no competitors and has been allowed by Adobe to languish on the Mac platform. I don't think that'll happen with the iPhone because the app environment is too competitive. How many iPhone apps have no competitor?

Telling developers how to write their apps just pisses them off. It may have the undesired effect of driving them to other platforms.

And in a perfect world, that would be the case. I totally agree with the ideal of letting the users decide what apps succeed. The tools shouldn't matter. Except that Apple has previously been the position of being dependent on third parties for the success of their platform and products. MS has held Office as a kludge over Apple for years. That means that MS has direct influence over the success of the Mac. Similarly, and perhaps more importantly, the development tools used by developers gives direct influence over the direction of the iPhone platform to third parties. Apple could create the perfect IDE and give it away for free. But if for reasons of convenience, habit or comfort, many devs instead choose to use an alternative product, then Apple would have to rely on those third parties to keep up with the API changes and feature additions. Modern mobile platforms are rapidly evolving and their success hinges on developers having access to and taking advantage of the platform as it evolves. A dependancy on third parties in this case means delayed adoption and showcasing of the platform as it evolves.

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post #111 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazinlwfl View Post

Still, what can you say about HTML5 and CSS and Javascript? Those are open, non-proprietary formats.

Flash is not "Open". Steve is right! He never said H.264 was open or free, he just said it was an industry Standard and Modern. If its a standard, and they support the playback of it, with no plugin required, then what is your problem?

Thank you! Was this guy even reading the article.
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post #112 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Flash uses up to 120% - just opening a page with no animation and no video.

Exaggerate much? Flat out lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Now, what are these great features that REQUIRE Flash?

Nothing requires Flash just as nothing requires HTML5- you won't die without having them. Flash is a luxury. I have offered examples of my own Flash applications in previous threads. There are numerous functions in Flash that have no corresponding equivalent in Javascript. Bottom line is that Flash development tools allow rapid app development where as Javascript offers nothing even close to my knowledge.

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post #113 of 348
Thank you for the letter. I hope we see more communication of this type and more of Apple's PR team. There is a lot of misinformation out there and I think Apple is better served when they communicate clearly.

I hope the media reads this and stops spreading lies.
post #114 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

Nobody but geeks will even know the letter exists. This is hardly national news.

BusinessWeek/Bloomberg http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-update1-.html

AP http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...qNrvgD9FCPK8O2

within an hour of posting on Apple.

Apple is the number 3 company in the U.S., a company that 100's of millions of people own either stock or product. Steve is the face of the company (Can you picture the CEO of Exxon? Does Ballmer show up on Time Magazine when WinPhone7 is released?

Geeks 'care' about this letter, however, 'everyone' in the U.S. will be exposed to the news about this letter.

Should it be national news. no (is the catfight between 2 companies a big deal, when AZ is effectively legislating racial profiling?, U.S. soldiers are dying in Afghanistan?, Tea Partiers are attracting racist and militarist elements, in the name of 'taking our country back' [from whom? the people whose majority vote elected the current congress and president?].

Is it natinal news. definitely.
post #115 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

You believe Flash is open? Really?


You think any of the Flash phones are going to have anything approaching acceptable battery life for a phone? Really?

Tell me about it man...these people are crazy
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post #116 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post


Perhaps, but Steve Jobs claiming H.264 is "open" is an absolute falsehood. It is nothing of the sort. That's why Firefox and Opera are not adopting it.


"H.264 is neither free nor open-source. If...you want to use H.264 to serve HTML5 video in your browser, you need to pay MPEG LA, the owners of the codec, a $5 million licensing fee. This has raised some eyebrows by the likes of Mozilla Firefox, who want HTML5s video compression standard to be the free, open-source Ogg Theora. Their argument, summarized, is its foolish to build the next decades internet video standards upon the back of a licensed codec when theres a free alternative that works nearly as well."

http://www.cultofmac.com/h-264-will-...ugh-2016/28982

Too bad Steve Jobs never said H.264 is "open". I guess you do not know how to read.
post #117 of 348
Consumers choose Apple because of the gorgeous hardware, interface, software/App synergy with said hardware, and the spit and polish of the unit as a whole, and not for some internet video spec.

Flash is way, way overrated, pushed mostly by tech-heads who are out of touch with the market.

Flash is just not a factor in buying decisions when it comes to Apple products.
post #118 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by agl82 View Post

You managed to reply to my comment without confronting its central thesis. Steve Jobs claims that Adobe's Flash technology is proprietary. This is a fact. Flash IS proprietary. However, Steve also claims that HTML5 (which includes H.264 for video playback) is an "open standard". His words:

"...we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open. Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards."


This is undeniably false. H.264 is a proprietary codec which must be licensed from MPEG LA. It is not "open" in any sense whatsoever. Steve Jobs is, therefore, a liar.

You will note that he did not include H.264 in your selective quote. H.264 is not a part of HTML5. HTML5 just supports it, as it supports many other standards, some of which are not open, but freely available. Even your lowly JPEG is a widely available standard that is not open. Same thing.
post #119 of 348
Personally, I think agl82 has gotten all the info on this topic that he can possibly get. If he doesn't a difference between open web standards and Adobe Flash at this point I doubt he never will.


So, back on topic, what is the reasoning behind this letter. The last letter Jobs scribed was to get the music labels to drop DRM. Remember the Warner CEO saying what a stupid idea it was just to go in with Amazon DRM free a couple months later?

There is an agenda here and it comes the day after Adobe has made some real changes to Flash for Mac OS X, and rather quickly too boot. What is the next move for Adobe and Apple?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Fearing View Post

And you are on a Mac forum - why?

That is just MacTripper trolling under a new alias.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #120 of 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

The difference, of course, is that iTunes uses between 0.1 and 10% CPU time, depending on what it's doing.

Flash uses up to 120% - just opening a page with no animation and no video.

Sometimes, results DO matter.

Except that this entire comment has nothing to do with what the poster asked. The question was essentionally, why does Jobs make a big deal about Adobe taking a decade to fully adopt cocoa, when Apple itself has not (a point Jobs' letter made an effort to separate from the performance/stability issue which it seems some people didn't notice, i.e. he asked about point 6 and you brought up point 3...huh?).

So, to ask again, why would Jobs bring up Adobe's slow adoption of Cocoa (separately from Flash's performance issues) as an issue, if Apple themselves still haven't fully adopted it for their apps. i.e Jobs says Adobe is the last major developer to go all Cocoa, but in fact the last major developer to do so is Apple itself.

See the difference?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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