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Adobe CEO dismisses Steve Jobs' comments on Flash as a 'smokescreen' - Page 5

post #161 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

I would like to point out that the iPhone has been out for 3 years and there is STILL no released version of full mobile flash. Yes, 10.1 will be available at some point this year, but 3 years? It's no wonder that Apple has put restrictions on the use of middleware for app creation if a company as huge as Adobe take 3 years just to release a plugin. Imagine how long it would take them to implement SDK changes.

You forgot to mention that even when (if) 10.1 comes out, it requires an 800 MHz A8 processor - which is more than any current iPhone or 99% of the phones on the market can handle, so even after the vaunted 10.1 comes out, it STILL won't work on iPhones - no matter what Apple does.

Then, of course, there's the fact that 10.1 beta is reported to be very clunky, slow, and stutters badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Just in case anyone missed this on Engadjet re: JooJoo review, as it pertains to Flash in particular:

*******
But what about Flash?
This is supposed to be the big differentiator, right? The iPad killer!

In an interesting move, Fusion Garage coupled the Atom processor with NVIDIA's Ion graphics to aid in playing full screen Flash video (or for doing... something). Unfortunately, the software just isn't there yet. Currently the device is running Flash 10.1 beta 1, and won't have hardware-accelerated Flash video for a good while now (the timing is partly reliant on Adobe support, and is labelled as a "work in progress" by JooJoo). That means some regular-sized YouTube and Hulu works, as decoded by the CPU, but full screen Hulu is jittery, and a 720p YouTube clip is like watching a slideshow. In one of the biggest moves of irony, JooJoo has actually implemented a hack for YouTube where you can view a video in Flash or in "JooJoo" mode which is a straight playback of the MPEG video file every YouTube video harbors. What does this remind us of? HTML 5, albeit with a less elegant implementation. This of course only works on YouTube right now, though JooJoo says it plans on supporting other sites in the future. Watch the video below for yourselves to see all this Flash tragedy play out.
********

Emphasis added by me.

So how is it the Flash is only Apple's problem again? Seems to me that SJ is just being SJ, and is never going to relinquish control of his company or products to Adobe or any other company... for a PLUGIN!

That's what I've been trying to say throughout this entire conversation, but all the Adobe shills just ignore it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

I say, thanks for making a "The Stand" against waiting for Flash and Adobe!
"Relient on Adobe my A**"

PS. I realize that this review of the JooJoo was before recent revisions of Flash 10.2 or Gala, or whatever Adobe is trying to call it now. Why do I think that the results will still be the same?

I don't know what impact it's going to have on an Atom processor, but Engadget tested it on i5 and i7 MacBook Pros. On the i5, the new version was actually SLOWER than the old one. On the i7, it was better, but still required 50% CPU time to show a video - which is supposed to be done on the GPU.

One step forward, two steps back.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #162 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by wvmb99 View Post

What did Adobe ever do? I first remember, was it Illustrator 7 or 8, where the Mac version was actually a downgrade in order to catch the Windows version up. I was still working in graphics then. So, after getting suckered into paying for it and getting ticked off, I switched to freehand, which in all ways but integration with a paint program was superior. Then Adobe buys Macromedia, shuts down Freehand, does not incorporate any of the advanced features as that may cut into their InDesign (or pagemaker) sales, and turns Flash into a monster. Since then, the capabilities on the Mac side have consistently lagged behind the windows side. Never mind the argument about the advanced stuff only working on windows, 99% of that is complete crap.

And what's this about the Mac OS being responsible. My mac almost never crashes, but when it does its either Flash running or Office (yes, really, I'm not just adding a random MS bash here). Adobe seems to be able to get its other apps running fine. Step up and explain this one in detail guys.

Apple is probably not the easiest company to work with, but Adobe's been nipping at them for a long time, and this might just be the beginning. Apple should either buy Adobe, but that now seems unlikely as it would be counterproductive to destroy the business first, or really compete like they did with Final Cut. But, take it seriously this time.

Is it any wonder that Adobe's products on the Mac lag behind the Windows versions with Apple's attitude towards developers.
post #163 of 172
2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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2011 13" 2.3 MBP, 2006 15" 2.16 MBP, iPhone 4, iPod Shuffle, AEBS, AppleTV2 with XBMC.
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post #164 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8CoreWhore View Post

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20003829-1.html

GET THEM NUMBERS UP!!!!


I've always wondered why media outlets seem to think that a poll is some measure of the technical validity of various arguments. Probably 95% of the people responding to that poll don't realize that Adobe has STILL not released a full version of Flash for mobile devices so it's impossible for the problem to be on Apple's end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post

Is it any wonder that Adobe's products on the Mac lag behind the Windows versions with Apple's attitude towards developers.

Nonsense. The problem is that Adobe made a strategic decision about a decade ago to build a native Windows version and then do a half-hearted port to the Mac.

In the case of Flash, that decision is going to end up killing the product.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #165 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I've always wondered why media outlets seem to think that a poll is some measure of the technical validity of various arguments. Probably 95% of the people responding to that poll don't realize that Adobe has STILL not released a full version of Flash for mobile devices so it's impossible for the problem to be on Apple's end.



Nonsense. The problem is that Adobe made a strategic decision about a decade ago to build a native Windows version and then do a half-hearted port to the Mac.

In the case of Flash, that decision is going to end up killing the product.

That is because the development on Windows is far superior to OSX. Visual Studio vs Xcode is a no contest. I use both but can achieve the same task with Visual Studio in a lot less time.

I use both so am not an Apple hater just realistic.
post #166 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

One only need look at their activity monitor or stop using Click2Flash to
see the deleterious effects of Flash on a Mac.

It's done...stick a fork in it.

Content that's not properly written or optimized will run poorly no matter what language or format it's written in. I have iPhone apps I've purchased that crash before they would even launch. I've had slow loading html pages. You can't attribute poor performance with a product which is perfectly capable of authoring very efficient content. Banners aside, flash is great. Banners included, at least i can disable banners with click2flash or adblock more easily than some other method
Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
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Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
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post #167 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

You can't even respect the guy after he says that Flash doesn't have a problem with battery life. Every problem he has someone else to blame. Pathetic.

Engadget's JooJoo Review (for a real kick check out the video of Flash performance)

"First, it causes the entire tablet to get quite warm (especially when playing Flash video) and then it murders its battery life. The JooJoo's integrated three-cell battery repeatedly lasted 2.5 hours (just as we predicted!) during our moderate use, which included surfing the Web and playing short videos. JooJoo claims you can get 5 hours if you avoid Flash entirely, but that sort of defeats the purpose, right?"

5 hours... not playing video? vs playing video? That's not even a relative comparison.
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Groupthink is bad, mkay. Think Different is the motto.
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post #168 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post

That is because the development on Windows is far superior to OSX. Visual Studio vs Xcode is a no contest. I use both but can achieve the same task with Visual Studio in a lot less time.

I use both so am not an Apple hater just realistic.

10 years ago there wasn't such a thing as Xcode and the current visual studio wasn't around either. They would have been using Visual C++ on the windows side and Metrowerks CodeWarrior on the mac side. Your argument about IDEs as a reason for Adobe's decisions just doesn't hold water.
"Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

uh... it could also signal that my Mom is at the wheel...
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"Slow vehicle speeds with frequent stops would signal traffic congestion, for instance."

uh... it could also signal that my Mom is at the wheel...
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post #169 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


Nonsense. The problem is that Adobe made a strategic decision about a decade ago to build a native Windows version and then do a half-hearted port to the Mac.

In the case of Flash, that decision is going to end up killing the product.

That is because the development on Windows is far superior to OSX. Visual Studio vs Xcode is a no contest. I use both but can achieve the same task with Visual Studio in a lot less time.

I use both so am not an Apple hater just realistic.

How easy to use an IDE is doesn't seem to be a compelling reason for Adobe or any major software house to focus on Windows development. The truth is that a decade ago Apple still had not fully recovered. Adobe had stuck with Apple through the hard times, but had made a strategic decision that enough was enough and they were going to Windows with OS X as a byproduct that they could continue to siphon. Unfortunately for them, it seems they made a poor bet. Apple's resurgence has placed them in a position where they are not at the mercy of other companies like Adobe, for good or bad. Even while Apple was recovering and becoming so successful, Adobe stayed with their old course of Windows first and Mac second.

I can't fault them for their decisions 10 years ago. It was probably the best decision for them at the time, even while it was not in Apple's best interests. But sometimes, you make make a bad bet and gamble against a horse that ends up winning. They lost this bet.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #170 of 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by palegolas View Post

True, true.. Adobe shot first in public though, didn't they? By commenting in public that Apple is trying to hurt Adobe. Like if Apple's policy is designed to specifically shut out Adobe, and nothing else.
Well well... Actually I'm glad it's not on Apple's Mobile OS X, after all it's (like in 99% of the case) just for commercials and games, and I completely agree with Steve Jobs in that Adobe should make an HTML5 software. It's a golden opportunity. I hope they realize it in time, for their own good.

Besides, I think Adobe's multi platform strategy shines through in the whole CS suite. They got over 20 years of development and research for this.. and still their software crash, misbehave, have a slow and sluggish UI. I imagine this is in part the result of their own multi platform strategy.

Regarding the comment to which you agree with Steve ("Adobe should make an HTML5 software. It's a golden opportunity. I hope they realize it in time, for their own good"), I suspect my ignorance of Flash programming and encoding will now show through badly, but, shouldn't this relatively easy for Adobe to accomplish? I have dabbled a bit in Flash, and I can certainly appreciate how those that have developed alacrity with the interface would be disinclined to bail on that skillset. However, shouldn't this be a rather simple matter for Adobe to just encode the end product differently? I mean, really...it may require them to do some crap "under the hood" to allow a choice of exports, but once that is done, I would think that content developers would be thrilled to stick with an interface they have mastered, and be able to deliver on every platform with a "save" and a "save as" choice. Adobe could reign supreme, and Steve could relax.

Everyone wins? Too hard to do? Pissing match between big players? Abject stubbornness? I would like to be enlightened as to why this is such a big deal.

Thanks
post #171 of 172
Different coloured smoke for different battle conditions. What colour is yours, CEO Shantanu Narayen? Mud Red?
post #172 of 172
My wife is driving me crazy complaining about how slow Frontier Farm is... then Flash crashes... the latest greatest version crashes.

Apple wants stability of their operating system almost as much as I do... Flash needs to run quicker and longer.. any one else have a flash for Flash?
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