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Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez - Page 4

post #121 of 700
Please forgive me if this has already been posted, but:

Surprise! Obama Was Top Recipient of BP Donations in 2008

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

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post #122 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Please forgive me if this has already been posted, but:

Surprise! Obama Was Top Recipient of BP Donations in 2008

That's what some might call an "inconvenient truth."

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post #123 of 700
We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #124 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Brownie on Fox- http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_562004.html

Well Brown might be venting. He might be playing politics (which Obama and his folks never do, of course) and he may well be right. After all, Obama is a guy whose Chief of Staff is of the opinion that "You dont ever want a crisis to go to waste."

Let's not all be all doe-eyed and naive and think that the political and agenda benefits of this event have totally escaped the Obama-ites.

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post #125 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Please forgive me if this has already been posted, but:

Surprise! Obama Was Top Recipient of BP Donations in 2008

This is hardly surprising, looking at the Top Contributors to Obama, we find Goldman Sachs at #2 with \t$994,795.

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/co...&cid=n00009638

Obama is rapidly becoming the worst enemy of Democrats as the 2010 election approaches! Will Republicans take all 100 seats open? You betcha!
post #126 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Please forgive me if this has already been posted, but:

Surprise! Obama Was Top Recipient of BP Donations in 2008

LOL! $71,000 a pittance!
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post #127 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post


Obama is rapidly becoming the worst enemy of Democrats as the 2010 election approaches! Will Republicans take all 100 seats open? You betcha!


Exaggerate much?
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post #128 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Why? Because of a single accidental oil release? What do you propose to ship to millions of gas stations in the nation so the country's citizens can get to work? $5 gasoline will decimate our struggling economy... you want to compare that with a few oil covered pelicans? Offshore drilling is one way to harvest this nation's petroleum and eliminating it so a few pony-tail eco-Greenpeace druggies can feel good about Gulf flora and fauna makes no sense in the national strategy...



It is hard to accept the "commie" castigation from liberals in the shadow of Barack's clear socialist record... pay attention to your hero's socialist agenda before hurling "commie" charges at the GOP...

Oh, what a beautiful post, so poetic.

0.1 % of the nation's oil production is way more important than 40% of it's sea food production. Makes complete sense.

If Obama does anything about the oil spill isn't he interfering with the free market? Wouldn't it be socialism? Should he dive down there and put a finger in the leak? Will the spill reach Rush Limp-ouch's house?
yes I want oil genocide.
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post #129 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

LOL! $71,000 a pittance!

Hmm, we almost gave him that much.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #130 of 700
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

LOL! $71,000 a pittance!

Oh the hypocrisy!

Quote:
BUSH MONEY TRAIL BY INDUSTRY GROUP (2004)
Oil & Gas: Bush $1,463,799

Oil & Gas (2008)
John McCain (R) \tgraph $2,402,937
Barack Obama (D) \tgraph $898,251

Oil & Gas: Long-Term Contribution Trends
Election Cycle\tRank†\tTotal Contributions\tContributions from Individuals\tContributions from PACs\tSoft Money Contributions\tDonations to Democrats\tDonations to Republicans\t% to Dems\t% to Repubs
2010*\t14\t$11,572,527\t$6,758,478\t$4,814,049\tN/A\t$3,434,474\t$8,132,174\t30%\t70%
2008*\t16\t$35,595,537\t$25,499,833\t$10,095,704\t N/A\t$8,122,865\t$27,454,542\t23%\t77%
2006*\t14\t$20,364,856\t$12,081,747\t$8,283,109\tN/A\t$3,624,686\t$16,650,566\t18%\t82%
2004*\t16\t$26,077,264\t$18,963,016\t$7,114,248\tN/A\t$5,063,900\t$20,989,499\t19%\t80%

(Sorry for the table formatting being screwy, they're hard to do right here.)

Also, FWIW a commentary on the Federal response from another site I go to:

Quote:
http://mediamatters.org/research/201004300053

A time-line of events following the catastrophic Gulf of Mexico oil spill belies the absurd media claim that the spill represents "Obama's Katrina."

April 21: Deputy Secretary of Interior, Coast Guard dispatched to region.

On April 23, the Coast Guard stated:
"From what we have observed yesterday and through the night, we are not seeing any signs of release of crude in the subsurface area. However we remain in a 'ready to respond' mode and are working in a collaborative effort with BP, the responsible party, to prepare for a worst-case scenario," Landry stated early Friday morning.

April 25: Response team implements plan to contain oil spilling from source, weather delays cleanup.

April 28: Federal officials realize spill was far more severe than BP led them to believe.

April 29: Napolitano declares spill "of national significance"; BP insists its "plan can handle this spill."

An April 30 Wall Street Journal article reported that "The U.S. Navy said it will send more than 12 additional miles of inflatable oil booms to the Gulf, as well as seven towable skimming systems and 50 contractors with experience operating the equipment."
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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post #131 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Oh the hypocrisy!



(Sorry for the table formatting being screwy, they're hard to do right here.)

Also, FWIW a commentary on the Federal response from another site I go to:

All of that is what some might call an "inconvenient truth."
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post #132 of 700
Green algae instead of oil? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9_-ZguuhBw (it feeds on light and CO2 )

The director of the NREL (National Renewable Energy Laboratory) says it works- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQj2bTgTWao
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post #133 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Oh, what a beautiful post, so poetic.

0.1 % of the nation's oil production is way more important than 40% of it's sea food production. Makes complete sense.

If Obama does anything about the oil spill isn't he interfering with the free market? Wouldn't it be socialism? Should he dive down there and put a finger in the leak? Will the spill reach Rush Limp-ouch's house?

Maybe he can fill the hole with his massive ego?
post #134 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Oh, what a beautiful post, so poetic.

0.1 % of the nation's oil production is way more important than 40% of it's sea food production. Makes complete sense.

If Obama does anything about the oil spill isn't he interfering with the free market? Wouldn't it be socialism? Should he dive down there and put a finger in the leak? Will the spill reach Rush Limp-ouch's house?

Can we get a source for the 40% number?

I've noticed you're a bit prone to cite the source "make shit up" quite a bit so I'm asking for a second source here.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #135 of 700
HALLIBURTON.. yet again.

As if cutting corners with electrical wiring in Iraq (electrocuting some troops) isn't bad enough... here they go again. Looks like they were working on the part of the rig that failed only hours before the blow-out.

A general policy of cutting corners again, keeping expenses down, for maximizing profits?

If so, then they should be brought to task and at least pay for this, out of the $10s of $Billions they've extorted and bilked from the US taxpayer in the last few years. I wonder who, (if anyone) is going to be found criminally negligent re. the deaths of all those oil-rig workers, and the huge pollution that is about to strike the shores of the Gulf of Mexico?

As usual, the corporate mafia will close ranks, and we the taxpayers will cough up for the misdeeds of big oil, and big business in general.
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #136 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

As usual, the corporate mafia will close ranks, and we the taxpayers will cough up for the misdeeds of big oil, and big business in general.

What about the misdeeds of big government?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #137 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

What about the misdeeds of big government?

Since government has merged so completely with corporate America (and corporate international) and government policy (and global decisions) come about practically exclusively as the result of corporate power and access, then one can say with complete confidence that "big government" (all government) is controlled by, and at the mercy of, big business, especially at the federal level. The misdeeds you talk about are one and the same.

We the people, the theoretical EMPLOYERS of government officials, have been steadily pushed out of the loop over the last few decades. (Big) business (not small or medium sized business) has all the access, and corporations have even more "rights" than individuals... but appear to have none of the responsibilities.

Enter the new Feudal System.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #138 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammi jo View Post

A general policy of cutting corners again, keeping expenses down, for maximizing profits?

If so, then they should be brought to task and at least pay for this, out of the $10s of $Billions they've extorted and bilked from the US taxpayer in the last few years. I wonder who, (if anyone) is going to be found criminally negligent re. the deaths of all those oil-rig workers, and the huge pollution that is about to strike the shores of the Gulf of Mexico?

As usual, the corporate mafia will close ranks, and we the taxpayers will cough up for the misdeeds of big oil, and big business in general.

While I agree that there is far too much corporate/government "coziness" (related to both side of the political aisle) and that this lead to bad outcomes and this might even be one of them, as far as BP is concerned, they've already come out and said they will pay for the cleanup. They have also claimed this was a legitimate accident. Criminal negligence? Maybe. But that might be a bit strong too. Accidents do happen. This might have been one of those cases. We'll have to see after all (or at least more) of the details emerge.

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post #139 of 700
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Can we get a source for the 40% number?

I've noticed you're a bit prone to cite the source "make shit up" quite a bit so I'm asking for a second source here.

I don't know about 40%, but I did find these in various articles:

Quote:
Louisiana's USD 2.4 billion a year commercial and recreational fishing industry is dealt its first major blow from the oil spill as the US government bans activities for 10 days due to health concerns.

"NOAA is restricting fishing for a minimum of ten days in federal waters most affected by the BP oil spill, largely between Louisiana state waters at the mouth of the Mississippi River to waters off Florida's Pensacola Bay. The closure is effective immediately," said the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

Louisiana accounts for an estimated one-third of the country's total oyster output, and the Gulf of Mexico are prime spawning waters for fish, shrimp and crabs, as well as a major stop for migratory birds.

Quote:
Shrimp Crop

Foote said marshes may suffer long-term damage from the oil spill. The Louisiana coast includes 3 million acres of wetlands that serve as a nursery for game fish such as speckled trout and red drum and are currently nurturing the brown shrimp crop to be harvested by the states fishing fleet.

Louisiana is the largest seafood producer in the lower 48 states, with annual retail sales of about $1.8 billion, according to state data. Recreational fishing generates about $1 billion in retail sales a year, according to the state.

Our marshes are nurseries and if those marshes are impacted, those juveniles that are dependent on feeding in those marshes will be affected too, Foote said in an interview.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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post #140 of 700
Understood, so the source is "make shit up."

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #141 of 700
So if we all don't get a little seafood for a couple of years or the price of it goes way, this will be the end of western civilization?

Let's at least keep the arguments to the 11 people who died. That's one I can grasp onto.

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post #142 of 700
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Understood, so the source is "make shit up."

Well at least as much as Business Week, LA Times, the NY Times and NOAA normally "makes shit up".

Gulf Coast oil spill threatens to shut down Louisiana's commercial fishing industry

Oil Spill Imperils Gulf Coast Fishing Industry

Gulf Coast Fishermen Fear That They Will Be Left With 'Crippled Industry'

Gulf of Mexico Oil Spill FACT SHEET

I did find this which supports the 40% number, in regard to sport fishing. It's 20% for commercial: General Facts about the Gulf of Mexico

Quote:
Fisheries
Gulf fisheries are some of the most productive in the world. In 2000, the commercial fish and shellfish harvest from the five U.S. Gulf states was estimated to be 1.7 billion pounds (approximately 772 million kg), which represents almost 1/5 (19.4%) of the total domestic landings in the United States. In the same year, commercial catches in the Gulf represented approximately 25% of the total U.S. domestic commercial fishing revenue and were valued at over $900 million. The Gulf also supports a productive recreational fishery. Excluding Texas, U.S. Gulf states accounted for over 40% (>104,000 lbs or >47,000 kg) of the U.S. recreational finfish harvest in 2000 (O'Bannon, 2001).

Citation: O'Bannon, B.K. 2001. Fisheries of the United States 2000. National Marine Fisheries Service, Office of Science and Technology, Fisheries Statistics and Economics Division. U.S. Dept. Commerce. Silver Spring, MD.

Of course there's always this resource.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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post #143 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

I did find this which supports the 40% number, in regard to sport fishing. It's 20% for commercial: General Facts about the Gulf of Mexico

The statement was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole

0.1 % of the nation's oil production is way more important than 40% of it's sea food production.

So given what you've provided, that it's 20% of the nation's commercial fishing, it seems the "40% of it's (the nation's) sea food production" is still pretty much in the "make shit up" category. But what's being off by 100% among friends?

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post #144 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

The statement was:



So given what you've provided, that it's 20% of the nation's commercial fishing, it seems the "40% of it's (the nation's) sea food production" is still pretty much in the "make shit up" category. But what's being off by 100% among friends?

You've already admitted that this discussion is beyond your comprehension skills, now you're proving that to the rest of us. That 20% didn't include Texas and this leak is projected to cover a very large area. Just one quart of oil is enough to make 250,000 gallons of sea water too toxic to support sea life. One quart!
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post #145 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

You've already admitted that this discussion is beyond your comprehension skills, now you're proving that to the rest of us.

I'd be very careful talking trash about comprehension skills if I were you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

That 20% didn't include Texas and this leak is projected to cover a very large area.

From what has been presented, the 20% figure was for the Gulf of Mexico. Texas is part of the Gulf of Mexico last I checked. You or Wormhole provide the links to the number that support the 40% claim or STFU.

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post #146 of 700
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

From what has been presented, the 20% figure was for the Gulf of Mexico. Texas is part of the Gulf of Mexico last I checked. You, or Wormhole or iPoster provide the links to the number that support the 40% claim or STFU.

Huh? I never submitted the 40% number, just references that it was a significant portion of national seafood production. If you want to nitpick over it, go ahead. Because losing 1/5 of the production of a national resource area is so insignificant to the economy and all.

Quote:
I don't know about 40%
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post #147 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

Huh? I never submitted the 40% number, just references that it was a significant portion of national seafood production.

Fair enough. I apologize. Grouped you in with Wormhole's claim. Anyone deserves an apology for that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

If you want to nitpick over it, go ahead. Because losing 1/5 of the production of a national resource area is so insignificant to the economy and all.

First I don't think 20% vs. 40% claim is exactly "nit picking." Second, it is one aspect of our food supply: sea food.

Is this a bad thing? Yes. Is it catastrophic for humans? Not so sure. All I'm saying is let's just try to keep things in perspective.

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post #148 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Fair enough. I apologize. Grouped you in with Wormhole's claim. Anyone deserves an apology for that.




First I don't think 20% vs. 40% claim is exactly "nit picking." Second, it is one aspect of our food supply: sea food.

Is this a bad thing? Yes. Is it catastrophic for humans? Not so sure. All I'm saying is let's just try to keep things in perspective.

Loss of seafood production:

1% bad
2% very bad
5% extremely bad
20% catastrophic
40% disaterous
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #149 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'd be very careful talking trash about comprehension skills if I were you.




Pffff!

Read what you write. Sheesh!

Quote MJ1970- "Let's at least keep the arguments to the 11 people who died. That's one I can grasp onto."

A 3,500 square mile oil leak with 200,000 plus gallons of oil being leaked a day and someone who's got a soft spot for oil companies and thinks GW is a scam can't "GRASP" it and wants to keep the argument limited to the 11 people who died. WTF!

And we also don't know yet how far the oil will spread and how much oil will leak. As it stands it could well go up past Florida along the East coast. That means we could be talking a bigger area than the Gulf Coast.
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post #150 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Loss of seafood production:

1% bad
2% very bad
5% extremely bad
20% catastrophic
40% disaterous

Can we get a citation for this as well or is this in the category of "make even more shit up after being caught making the first shit up?"

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #151 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

And we also don't know yet how far the oil will spread and how much oil will leak. As it stands it could well go up past Florida along the East coast. That means we could be talking a bigger area than the Gulf Coast.

Lions! Tigers! Bears! Oh my....

Many are dead and thousands homeless due to Tennessee flood disaster, with billions of dollars in property damage. Greece is bankrupt and broke and Greeks are killing each other in the streets. Terrorists are trying to bomb innocents in our largest cities around the world.

But coat a pelican in crude and the environmental lobby is running around screaming End of Days! We need to figure out ways to clean up this oil spill, develop recipes for oil-rich oysters and BP Bubba Shrimp, and move on.... No big deal...
post #152 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Lions! Tigers! Bears! Oh my....



But coat a pelican in crude and the environmental lobby is running around screaming End of Days!

Nice line! I look forward to quoting that to my friends over a few beers for laughs.
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post #153 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

can we get a citation for this as well or is this in the category of "make even more shit up after being caught making the first shit up?"

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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #154 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

A 3,500 square mile oil leak with 200,000 plus gallons of oil being leaked a day and someone who's got a soft spot for oil companies and thinks GW is a scam can't "GRASP" it and wants to keep the argument limited to the 11 people who died. WTF!

My point was...and I'll try to speak slowly and use small words for you...that a 20% damage to the friggin' sea food (not even the entire food) industry is not quite as tragic as the 11 people who've lost their lives. I think we'll all adjust to having less (or more expensive) shrimp and oysters. My God, if this isn't evidence that liberal environmentalists care more about animals than they do about people I don't know what is. I know as a liberal it's hard but try to keep some perspective.

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post #155 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Nice line! I look forward to quoting that to my friends over a few beers for laughs.

Want a bigger laugh? Looky here what Obama's Interior Chief was doing when platform was burning and oil spreading =>

While Oil Slick Spread, Interior Department Chief of Staff Rafted with Wife on "Work-Focused" Trip in Grand Canyon
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...d-canyon-.html

Heck of a job Tommie!


post #156 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Loss of seafood production:

1% bad
2% very bad
5% extremely bad
20% catastrophic
40% disaterous

For the absolutely retarded (read if you think you fit into this group only!!):

This is my personal opinion and does not need any links or verification.
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post #157 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Want a bigger laugh? Looky here what Obama's Interior Chief was doing when platform was burning and oil spreading =>

While Oil Slick Spread, Interior Department Chief of Staff Rafted with Wife on "Work-Focused" Trip in Grand Canyon
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...d-canyon-.html

Heck of a job Tommie!



So let me get this straight. You're trying to blame this massive oil leak on a guy and his wife paddling around on a raft in the Grand Canyon?
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post #158 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

My point was...and I'll try to speak slowly and use small words for you...that a 20% damage to the friggin' sea food (not even the entire food) industry is not quite as tragic as the 11 people who've lost their lives. I think we'll all adjust to having less (or more expensive) shrimp and oysters. My God, if this isn't evidence that liberal environmentalists care more about animals than they do about people I don't know what is. I know as a liberal it's hard but try to keep some perspective.

Er, I think we Lefties care about people, and get this, AND the environment. Whereas you seem only concerned, and perhaps not overly concerned given your distaste for government regulations, about people and only if they are physically injured or killed it would seem as this leak will have huge impacts for years and years for the communities affected by it.
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post #159 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Er, I think we Lefties care about people,

I'll reserve judgement on that until I get some actual evidence of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

and get this, AND the environment.

But which one more? That's the real question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Whereas you seem only concerned, and perhaps not overly concerned given your distaste for government regulations, about people and only if they are physically injured or killed it would seem as this leak will have huge impacts for years and years for the communities affected by it.

Right. That's exactly the correct deduction!

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post #160 of 700
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Is this a bad thing? Yes. Is it catastrophic for humans? Not so sure. All I'm saying is let's just try to keep things in perspective.

Probably not catastrophic in the "big picture", but it is definitely going to put the brakes on the economies of the Gulf states. I'm assuming that like other coastal states they rely heavily on the revenues from tourism, commercial and sport fishing industries, all of which will take a hit from this even if the well head is shut down sooner rather than later.

(I'll concede that Texas is big enough to weather this OK, and maybe Florida since they do have another coast that should stay oil free)
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez