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Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez - Page 6

post #201 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

That's interesting tech there. The only questions I'd have are how much water the process uses if it goes large scale (probably not that much, but it could be an issue in areas such as southern California) and if any by-products are generated in the chemical reaction phase?

I suppose it would make solar more useful in the near term, but in the long term is still generating CO2 as an end product of combustion. (about 30% less than burning oil or coal though)

I don't know how much water it consumes but I think making hydrogen uses quite a lot and this seems to have some similarities, but I don't know. I don't know about the by-products either. Certainly the CO2 advantages are diminished by producing natural gas, but obviously that would only be for some of the power generated. It might mean that wind farms or other forms of clean energy generation could have the capability to store their power when other methods aren't available or are prohibitively expensive. Given hydrogens growing usefulness I can see making hydrogen from wind etc as being a much better use and likely more profitable too. Hydrogen powered cars (except from the energy used to create hydrogen- fine though with wind etc) zero CO2 emissions, just water out of the exhaust- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykl2PH2B-tM
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #202 of 700
Poll: Despite spill, support for oil drilling high

Quote:
Even after the recent and highly publicized oil spill in the Gulf Coast, thats the overwhelming sentiment from the public, with six in 10 Americans supporting more offshore drilling, according to the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll.

In addition, a majority believes that the potential economic benefits of offshore drilling outweigh its potential harm to the environment.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #203 of 700
Quote:

We'll see how those numbers look in three months or so, but admittedly the numbers that still favor it I find remarkably high. I'd put that down to two types of people, those who are ignorant of the harm being caused and those who are too selfish to care. Your article didn't say what the support had been before this started. I found this, though it may not be that accurate-

"...With oil reaching its first landfall today after the massive oil leak in the Gulf, most U.S. voters -- 58 percent --still favor domestic offshore oil drilling..."

But-

"Nationally, the numbers have declined as well from 72% just after President Obamas announcement at the end of March that he was lifting the ban on offshore drilling for the first time in years."

So that's down 14%.

~ http://miamiherald.typepad.com/naked...ow-oppose.html




I found this interesting, 35% of those polled said they thought Obama's plans would have no impact on the environment-

"In general, Americans come down on the side of drilling for oil off the US coastline: 63% favour increased drilling offshore, just 23% oppose it. Two in three believe increased offshore drilling would help the economy, while 39% think it would help national security. As for drilling's impact on the environment, 35% say it will make things worse. About as many (36%) say it will have no impact."
~ http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...yougov_polling
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #204 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

We'll see how those numbers look in three months or so, but admittedly the numbers that still favor it I find remarkably high. I'd put that down to two types of people, those who are ignorant of the harm being caused and those who are too selfish to care.

Translation: The people who disagree with me on this issue are ignorant or selfish.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Your article didn't say what the support had been before this started.

It's not my article. If you have a problem with its journalism or incompleteness, take it up with MSNBC.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #205 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Translation: The people who disagree with me on this issue are ignorant or selfish.




It's not my article. If you have a problem with its journalism or incompleteness, take it up with MSNBC.

Dear MSNBC,

Please take more care in the future to cover the topics in much greater detail or MJ1970 will win all his arguments simply by posting links to your very left wing media site that wants to destroy his way of life.

Yours unsincerely,

Hands Sandon,
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #206 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Dear MSNBC,

Please take more care in the future to cover the topics in much greater detail or MJ1970 will win all his arguments simply by posting links to your very left wing media site that wants to destroy his way of life.

Yours unsincerely,

Hands Sandon,







P.S. I didn't even realize I was making an argument. I was simply posting a relevant article. \

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #207 of 700

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #208 of 700

Looky here =>

OBAMA ADMIN GAVE RIG 'SAFETY AWARD' LAST YEAR
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100516/...ll_inspections

Why the liberal media is not chewing Obama about this is amazing!
post #209 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Looky here =>

OBAMA ADMIN GAVE RIG 'SAFETY AWARD' LAST YEAR
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100516/...ll_inspections

Why the liberal media is not chewing Obama about this is amazing!

Because it's Barack Obama, and it is impossible for him or his administration to make errors. Surely Bush had something to do with the Obama administration giving this award.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #210 of 700
I prefer my oil spills be confined to third world countries run by dictators.
post #211 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

I prefer my oil spills be confined to third world countries run by dictators.

According to FOX and Rush and many right wing politicians like Boner and Co., that is exactly where this oil spill happened.

Other tell tale signs of a Banana Republic:
Politicians are being paid off by oil companies.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #212 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Other tell tale signs of a Banana Republic:
Politicians are being paid off by oil companies.

Precisely!

Obama biggest recipient of BP cash
Politico
While the BP oil geyser pumps millions of gallons of petroleum into the Gulf of Mexico, President Barack Obama and members of Congress may have to answer for the millions in campaign contributions theyve taken from the oil and gas giant over the years. BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Donations come from a mix of employees and the companys political action committees $2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz0oDL0zH4U
post #213 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Donations come from a mix of employees and the companys political action committees $2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals.[/I]

3.5 Mill over 20 years?
That's $ 175,000 per year, that really seems not much at all.

What have they spent on lobbying in the past 20 years?
Were they in Cheney's energy task force?
How much has Cheney made on his Halliburton job and stocks?
Largest Chunk ... how large is the largest chunk?
Who was in charge of congress for most of these 20 years?
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #214 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Were they in Cheney's energy task force?

Who cares about "Cheney"... stop trying to deflect responsibility. Obama was the biggest recipient of BP cash and apparently he did nothing to regulate their platforms. Don't try to deflect by bringing in a former vice president!
post #215 of 700
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Precisely!

Obama biggest recipient of BP cash
Politico
While the BP oil geyser pumps millions of gallons of petroleum into the Gulf of Mexico, President Barack Obama and members of Congress may have to answer for the millions in campaign contributions they’ve taken from the oil and gas giant over the years. BP and its employees have given more than $3.5 million to federal candidates over the past 20 years, with the largest chunk of their money going to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Donations come from a mix of employees and the company’s political action committees — $2.89 million flowed to campaigns from BP-related PACs and about $638,000 came from individuals.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories...#ixzz0oDL0zH4U

Already been debunked a few pages back.

Yeah, Big Oil has their hands in many politicians pockets, but the money has historically and statistically gone to Republicans over Democrats by almost a 4:1 margin.

Quote:
Oil & Gas (2008)
John McCain (R) graph $2,402,937
Barack Obama (D) graph $898,251

Oil & Gas: Long-Term Contribution Trends
Election Cycle Rank† Total Contributions Contributions from Individuals Contributions from PACs Soft Money Contributions Donations to Democrats Donations to Republicans % to Dems % to Repubs
2010* 14 $11,572,527 $6,758,478 $4,814,049 N/A $3,434,474 $8,132,174 30% 70%
2008* 16 $35,595,537 $25,499,833 $10,095,704 N/A $8,122,865 $27,454,542 23% 77%
2006* 14 $20,364,856 $12,081,747 $8,283,109 N/A $3,624,686 $16,650,566 18% 82%
2004* 16 $26,077,264 $18,963,016 $7,114,248 N/A $5,063,900 $20,989,499 19% 80%

Although the percentage is shifting sightly, due I'm sure to the party in power changing.

Edit:
The problems with the lack of regulation from the MMS go back decades, it's not a new Obama problem.
Quote:
Chris Oynes, the associate Minerals Management Service administrator for offshore drilling programs, informed colleagues he will retire at the end of the month, according to an e-mail sent to agency officials and obtained by The Associated Press.

Oynes, who was regional director in charge of Gulf offshore oil programs for 13 years before he was promoted in 2007 to head all offshore drilling programs, has come under criticism for being too close to the industry.

Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., a longtime MMS critic, said the agency has been corrupt for more than a decade, a period spanning three administrations, and that its shortcomings were not the fault of one person. The agency "is in need of an exhaustive overhaul and comprehensive reform," he said.

Federal safety inspections on oil rig in Gulf not as claimed

Quote:
The federal agency responsible for making sure the Deepwater Horizon, responsible for the massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, was operating safely fell well short of its own policy that the rig be inspected at least once per month, an Associated Press investigation shows.

Earlier AP investigations have shown that the doomed rig was allowed to operate without safety documentation required by MMS regulations for the exact disaster scenario that occurred; that the cutoff valve which failed has repeatedly broken down at other wells in the years since regulators weakened testing requirements; and that regulation is so lax that some key safety aspects on rigs are decided almost entirely by the companies doing the work.

The AP sought to find out how many times government safety inspectors visited the Deepwater Horizon, and what they found. In response, MMS officials offered a changing series of numbers. The MMS has had long-standing issues with its data management.

Even using the more favorable numbers for the most recent 64 months, 25 percent of monthly inspections were not performed. The first set of data supplied to AP represented a 59 percent shortfall in the number of inspections.
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #216 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster View Post

... it's not a new Obama problem...

Horseshit... (excuse the vernacular)!

I am not accepting this Obama blame game of passing every responsibility to the prior administration. Obama and his Administration accepted the control of the government upon his inauguration. While there may be a short period where the prior administration can be made a scapegoat, Obama's culpability here for this BP oil spill is total! Two years into Obama's reign seems more than sufficient for his administration to accept responsibility for lax offshore regulation enforcement on BP in the shadow of the accident at Deepwater Horizon and the subsequent oil spill. Moreover, this Administration has been more than tardy responding to this incident, particularly following revelations of how much BP contributed to the Obama campaign...
post #217 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Horseshit... (excuse the vernacular)!

I am not accepting this Obama blame game of passing every responsibility to the prior administration. Obama and his Administration accepted the control of the government upon his inauguration. While there may be a short period where the prior administration can be made a scapegoat, Obama's culpability here for this BP oil spill is total! Two years into Obama's reign seems more than sufficient for his administration to accept responsibility for lax offshore regulation enforcement on BP in the shadow of the accident at Deepwater Horizon and the subsequent oil spill. Moreover, this Administration has been more than tardy responding to this incident, particularly following revelations of how much BP contributed to the Obama campaign...

All $72,000 of it.
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post #218 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

All $72,000 of it.

Which is more than any other politician.
post #219 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Which is more than any other politician.

Prove it.

Quote:
The top recipient of BP-related donations during the 2008 cycle was President Barack Obama himself, who collected $71,000.

Quote:
When questioned about the donations Wednesday, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs made a point of noting that the money came from employees and not the company itself.

Private campaign contributions from private citizens.

Oh my.
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post #220 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Prove it.





Private campaign contributions from private citizens.

Oh my.


Quote:
During his time in the Senate and while running for president, Obama received a total of $77,051 from the oil giant and is the top recipient of BP PAC and individual money over the past 20 years, according to financial disclosure records.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html

You do know many corporations, BP included, tell senior level employees to write $1000 checks and bundle them together, so that gullible people believe the employees donated on their own, correct?
post #221 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0510/36783.html

You do know many corporations, BP included, tell senior level employees to write $1000 checks and bundle them together, so that gullible people believe the employees donated on their own, correct?

Prove it.

MCCAIN, JOHN S.

OBAMA, BARACK
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #222 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Prove it.

MCCAIN, JOHN S.

OBAMA, BARACK

What part about Obama got more from BP than any other candidate or politician did you have trouble understanding?
post #223 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

What part about Obama got more from BP than any other candidate or politician did you have trouble understanding?

The part where he received private campaign contributions from private individual's part.

What part of private campaign contributions from private individuals did you have trouble understanding?

I provided the necessary links for you to prove that BP Corp. directly provided campaign contributions to Barack Obama.

Since you can't prove that BP Corp. directly provided campaign contributions to Barack Obama there is nothing further to discuss.

Next.
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post #224 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

The part where he received private campaign contributions from private individual's part.

What part of private campaign contributions from private individuals did you have trouble understanding?

I provided the necessary links for you to prove that BP Corp. directly provided campaign contributions to Barack Obama.

Since you can't prove that BP Corp. directly provided campaign contributions to Barack Obama there is nothing further to discuss.

Next.

The article clearly states as such. If you choose to believe your hero, rather than the facts, that's on you.
post #225 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

The article clearly states as such. If you choose to believe your hero, rather than the facts, that's on you.

Quote:
This table lists the top donors to this candidate in the -1 - Career election cycle. The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.

Now if you are talking about facts, and PAC contributions, Obama did not receive a single red cent of BP PAC money.

100% private campaign contributions from private individuals as far as BP is concerned.

Too bad you can't handle the actual truth.

Next.
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post #226 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Now if you are talking about facts, and PAC contributions, Obama did not receive a single red cent of BP PAC money.

100% private campaign contributions from private individuals as far as BP is concerned.

To bad you can't handle the actual truth.

Next.

I am informed enough to know how campaign donations work. When the partners of a firm tell all the associates to write a check for $1000, then send them off, they show as individual donations, rather than from the firm. Same for corporations. Your god may have you believe such is not the case, but some of us know better than to trust Chicago politicians. All articles on the subject clearly state Obama is the largest recipient on BP donations. Believe it or not, your hero is just like any other politician- his sheep just happen to be more gullible.
post #227 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

I am informed enough to know how campaign donations work. When the partners of a firm tell all the associates to write a check for $1000, then send them off, they show as individual donations, rather than from the firm. Same for corporations. Your god may have you believe such is not the case, but some of us know better than to trust Chicago politicians. All articles on the subject clearly state Obama is the largest recipient on BP donations. Believe it or not, your hero is just like any other politician- his sheep just happen to be more gullible.

Prove it in this case.

Stop with all the hand waving and conjectures that you have yet to prove.

Do you even know that Obama received the most private campaign contributions from private individuals?

Set the all time record, almost $800M ($778,642,047) in the 2008 presidential campaign alone versus $400M ($399,826,076) for McStain.

Of that $800M for Obama $665M was from individual donations (85%) versus $206M for McStain (only 52%).

$206M versus $665M or 3.23X McStain's.

So what we have here is your fantasy versus my cold hard reality.

Next.
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post #228 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Prove it in this case.

Stop with all the hand waving and conjectures that you have yet to prove.

Do you even know that Obama received the most private campaign contributions from private individuals?

Set the all time record, almost $800M ($778,642,047) in the 2008 presidential campaign alone versus $400M ($399,826,076) for McStain.

Of that $800M for Obama $665M was from individual donations (85%) versus $206M for McStain (only 52%).

$206M versus $665M or 3.23X McStain's.

So what we have here is your fantasy versus my cold hard reality.

Next.

Yes, of course, little old ladies and gangbangers sent in $5 bills. Keep living in Obamaworld...
post #229 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

Yes, of course, little old ladies and gangbangers sent in $5 bills. Keep living in Obamaworld...

Next.
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post #230 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Next.

Link to another Wikipedia article.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #231 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

All $72,000 of it.

For that money I don't even get out of bed, My companies and me privately have donated close to that amount to Obama. Has he done me or my companies any favors? NO.
I am very happy about that.

He raised about 750,000,000 in 08 72,000 is 0.00098% wow. He is in the pocket of BP for sure.

Funny how the states who are known for their racist, "colored people lynching for fun" past will now have black beaches.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #232 of 700
Seafood testing from Gulf oil disaster could last years


Quote:
The danger posed by the Gulf oil spill to the U.S. food supply is worse than previously thought, and could make testing of seafood necessary for decades to come, officials and scientists say.

The spill "will affect the Gulf, and possibly the entire North American region, for maybe years, if not decades," said Rowan Gould, acting director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.

Lisa Suatoni, an ocean scientist for the Natural Resources Defense Council environmental group, agreed that short-term risk to humans from seafood seemed minimal because of the monitoring. However, the globs of oil below the surface — which she said reminded her visually of a "toxic lava lamp" — and chemicals being used to disperse oil could have a lasting impact on the ocean's food chain, she said.

"For some animals, even if they don't die from the exposure, they can squirrel away those chemicals and survive," Suatoni said. "Anything that eats them could then get a concentrated dose of that (chemical)."

The food chain is especially sensitive at the moment because of the spring breeding season, Gould said. Gulf waters are full of recently hatched fish that are consumed by larger fish and other predators.

Suatoni said the oil could make its way to the shallow ocean shelf, which is a habitat for fish such as snapper, and remain there for an extended period. The long-term consequences are what worry her the most, she said.

"We may have to do this monitoring for a long, long time, and that's expensive," Suatoni said.
eye
bee
BEE
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post #233 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Funny how the states who are known for their racist, "colored people lynching for fun" past will now have black beaches.

I take it you have never been to the Gulf states? They have large black populations, who will most likely be affected by this leak.
post #234 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

For that money I don't even get out of bed, My companies and me privately have donated close to that amount to Obama. Has he done me or my companies any favors? NO.
I am very happy about that.

He raised about 750,000,000 in 08 72,000 is 0.00098% wow. He is in the pocket of BP for sure.

Funny how the states who are known for their racist, "colored people lynching for fun" past will now have black beaches.

Like freed slaves coming ashore to seek revenge on their once captors.
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post #235 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

I take it you have never been to the Gulf states? They have large black populations, who will most likely be affected by this leak.

I am friends with a shipbuilder family in LA. I have spend a lot of time on Grand Isle and other places and I have achieved the honorary title of "Coonass". I also stay at the Hangout once or twice a year.
Racism is very much alive on the Bayou.

I feel for everyone who will be affected by this man made disaster. By a very large margin white people will loose. Minority business ownership is marginal in the areas affected.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #236 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Like freed slaves coming ashore to seek revenge on their once captors.

Most slaves were actually captured by fellow Africans, and turned over to the ships for profit.

And I'm pretty sure equating waves of freed slaves with an impending ecological disaster is insulting.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #237 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

I am friends with a shipbuilder family in LA. I have spend a lot of time on Grand Isle and other places and I have achieved the honorary title of "Coonass". I also stay at the Hangout once or twice a year.
Racism is very much alive on the Bayou.

I feel for everyone who will be affected by this man made disaster. By a very large margin white people will loose. Minority business ownership is marginal in the areas affected.

So all these black people you claim to feel for are self employed or independently wealthy? They don't work for the evil white man? If the man loses his business, wouldn't his oppressed workers lose their jobs, as well?
post #238 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegmu View Post

So all these black people you claim to feel for are self employed or independently wealthy? They don't work for the evil white man? If the man loses his business, wouldn't his oppressed workers lose their jobs, as well?

In your world "everyone" means "black people" ....?
We do not live in the same world so any communication between us is impossible.

t
r
o
l
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yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #239 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

In your world "everyone" means "black people" ....?
We do not live in the same world so any communication between us is impossible.

t
r
o
l
l

Wow, the pot calling the kettle black here....
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #240 of 700
Ya gotta' love this twist!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37273085...decision_2010/

Quote:
Rand Paul: Obama BP criticism 'un-American'
GOP Senate candidate is under fire for comments about civil rights law

Love may not be the right word.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
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