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Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez - Page 9

post #321 of 700
6/10/10 at 11:45am
Wherein John Boehner demonstrates that idiocy is not a trait limited to Democrats.

Quote:
"I think the people responsible in the oil spill--BP and the federal government--should take full responsibility for what's happening there," Boehner said at his weekly press conference this morning.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #322 of 700
6/10/10 at 11:47am
Wait a second, I thought only those ignorant tea Party people were given to bouts of rude and disruptive conduct.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #323 of 700
6/10/10 at 12:02pm
I know many of our lefty friends will walk over hot coals to save their favoured president, but there is no denying that the Obama administration has really messed up this operation, and the catastrophic results will be felt for generations.

There is an abundance of evidence that state governments have been restricted from acting by federal government bureaucracy. The President who had no problem taking over the nation's banking system and automobile industry to save them doesn't think he has the authority to commandeer the effort to contain a national ecological disaster. And his lefty disciples are saying amen.

Now we have news that vital tools to stem the oil's flow have been left sitting in warehouses while Obama fiddles.

Here at AI there was much debate when 9/11 happened and the left here said the fault primarily lay with Bush, even though he had only been in office for nine months. Well Obama's been in office for eighteen months and has been shown to be completely useless at marshalling the nation to confront a liquid threat that was very difficult, but not impossible to contain.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #324 of 700
6/10/10 at 1:06pm
And U.S. protectionism saves the day. Oh wait...
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #325 of 700
6/10/10 at 4:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

And U.S. protectionism saves the day. Oh wait...

What's HILARIOUS is that this situation has caused a bunch of small government wingnuts to start yelling and screaming "YOU CAN'T TRUST THE CORPORATION TO DO THINGS ON ITS OWN! WHERE'S THE GOVERNMENT STEPPING IN TO HELP?"

They can't have it both ways. If they want to condemn Obama for not doing more, then they have to admit that government does serve a purpose (other than war) and that corporations left to their own devices can't do everything and don't act in any manner other than their own self interest--certainly not for the public good.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #326 of 700
6/10/10 at 5:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What's HILARIOUS is that this situation has caused a bunch of small government wingnuts to start yelling and screaming "YOU CAN'T TRUST THE CORPORATION TO DO THINGS ON ITS OWN! WHERE'S THE GOVERNMENT STEPPING IN TO HELP?"

They can't have it both ways. If they want to condemn Obama for not doing more, then they have to admit that government does serve a purpose (other than war) and that corporations left to their own devices can't do everything and don't act in any manner other than their own self interest--certainly not for the public good.

Funny. I've noticed that about a lot of things the wingnuts say. They seem to want it one way when it fits the argument but it could be the other way if that fits the argument better.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #327 of 700
6/10/10 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

They can't have it both ways. If they want to condemn Obama for not doing more, then they have to admit that government does serve a purpose (other than war) and that corporations left to their own devices can't do everything and don't act in any manner other than their own self interest--certainly not for the public good.

Sorry... that's bull... Captain Kick Ass assured the nation that he was in control then he did absolutely nothing to help out Louisiana by approving the permits that Gov. Jindal and others requested... Yes we want the government to do something! What it is suppose to do - support the states in time of crisis! We only found out this week that Captain Kick Ass has yet to even speak to CEO of British Petroleum! That's not being "in control" but being obtuse! In terms of corporations left to their own devices... oil spills from off-shore platforms are rare but do happen. You seriously think the government could do better than private entities in harvesting oil?
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post #328 of 700
6/10/10 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Sorry... that's bull... Captain Kick Ass assured the nation that he was in control then he did absolutely nothing to help out Louisiana by approving the permits that Gov. Jindal and others requested... Yes we want the government to do something! What it is suppose to do - support the states in time of crisis!

I would put this differently. From the sounds of it they were just in the way. In this case the (federal) government "doing something" should have amounted to getting the fuck out of the way. Funny, that seems to be a common problem.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #329 of 700
6/10/10 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I know many of our lefty friends will walk over hot coals to save their favoured president, but there is no denying that the Obama administration has really messed up this operation, and the catastrophic results will be felt for generations.

There is an abundance of evidence that state governments have been restricted from acting by federal government bureaucracy. The President who had no problem taking over the nation's banking system and automobile industry to save them doesn't think he has the authority to commandeer the effort to contain a national ecological disaster. And his lefty disciples are saying amen.

Now we have news that vital tools to stem the oil's flow have been left sitting in warehouses while Obama fiddles.

Here at AI there was much debate when 9/11 happened and the left here said the fault primarily lay with Bush, even though he had only been in office for nine months. Well Obama's been in office for eighteen months and has been shown to be completely useless at marshalling the nation to confront a liquid threat that was very difficult, but not impossible to contain.

Yes we demand the government immediately bail out BP. We want more government jobs. We want bigger government now. We want to socialize the oil industry now. We want tax $ to flow to the states to bail them out of this crisis.

We want smaller government. The free market will take care of this. We are against the stimulus. We want to abolish several government agencies. We want to make the EPA powerless. We trust Corporations to be moral. We want to give subsidies to the oil industry as well as tax breaks.

POOOOFFFFFF
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #330 of 700
6/10/10 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Yes we demand the government immediately bail out BP. We want more government jobs. We want bigger government now. We want to socialize the oil industry now. We want tax $ to flow to the states to bail them out of this crisis.

We want smaller government. The free market will take care of this. We are against the stimulus. We want to abolish several government agencies. We want to make the EPA powerless. We trust Corporations to be moral. We want to give subsidies to the oil industry as well as tax breaks.

POOOOFFFFFF

Hi Wormhole!

It's always good to see your Royal Snarkiness in full voice. I find one particular point interesting that I'd like to ask you about:

You say (I assume sarcastically): "We trust Corporations to be moral." Isn't it fair to say that those believers in all things governmental might be said to think: "We trust government to be moral." And, if this is so, (and it must be given how much power some desire to hand over to governments at all levels), how is that better?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #331 of 700
6/10/10 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

We want smaller government.

Yes we do. We've all been witness what a clusterfuck Obama's big government has been!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

The free market will take care of this.


The free market has a far better record than government. Example: Greece!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

We are against the stimulus.

The stimulus was useless... unemployment has been about 10% for the last year. The stimulus accomplished nothing and further indebted the next generation to debt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

We want to abolish several government agencies.

Department of Education (DoE), Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), and Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) for starters...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

We want to make the EPA powerless.

Precisely! Right now the EPA is trying to regulate air!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

We trust Corporations to be moral.

I could care less if corporations are moral or immoral. I only care that they make money, treat their employees well, and follow the laws of the nation. We all know how moral governments are (interns in White House Oval Office comes to mind).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

We want to give subsidies to the oil industry as well as tax breaks.

As opposed to getting oil from the Arabs? Absolutely...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

POOOOFFFFFF

Rather than post absurdities you should examine your support of Mother May I government since it has a poor record of performance....
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post #332 of 700
6/10/10 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What's HILARIOUS is that this situation has caused a bunch of small government wingnuts to start yelling and screaming "YOU CAN'T TRUST THE CORPORATION TO DO THINGS ON ITS OWN! WHERE'S THE GOVERNMENT STEPPING IN TO HELP?"

They can't have it both ways. If they want to condemn Obama for not doing more, then they have to admit that government does serve a purpose (other than war) and that corporations left to their own devices can't do everything and don't act in any manner other than their own self interest--certainly not for the public good.

For the record, I have never argued that government serves no purpose. Government has several important purposes, one of which is to provide regulation and oversight of the corporate sector.

This is markedly different from the course being pursued by Western governments today, in which they think they have a mandate to "create jobs" and use that excuse to meddle in the corporate sector, fund and bailout their friends, raise taxes so that they can afford bigger bureaucracies which then meddle and bailout even more.

The fringe elements of any movement has its crazies, but can you point to any significant conservatives who believe that the government should stand aside when hundreds of miles of coastline and significant fishing and farming industries are threatened?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #333 of 700
6/11/10 at 7:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Hi Wormhole!

It's always good to see your Royal Snarkiness in full voice. I find one particular point interesting that I'd like to ask you about:

You say (I assume sarcastically): "We trust Corporations to be moral." Isn't it fair to say that those believers in all things governmental might be said to think: "We trust government to be moral." And, if this is so, (and it must be given how much power some desire to hand over to governments at all levels), how is that better?

Judging by our deficit, government is "not for profit". BP however makes huge profits.

You belong to the company store.

I am on my way to become BP, instead of drilling I collect photons. I own corporations. I am immoral.
I want all the oil companies to go out of business so I can make huge profits. I try to harm people financially who I know are Republicans.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #334 of 700
6/11/10 at 7:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Judging by our deficit, government is "not for profit". BP however makes huge profits.

Yes. And?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

I am immoral.

This may well be true. I don't know. But, I would argue that you are not immoral because you own businesses and seek a profit. This is, plain and simply, a non sequitur.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

I want all the oil companies to go out of business so I can make huge profits.

I wish you well in your pursuit of great profit.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #335 of 700
6/11/10 at 9:06am
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

For the record, I have never argued that government serves no purpose. Government has several important purposes, one of which is to provide regulation and oversight of the corporate sector.

This is markedly different from the course being pursued by Western governments today, in which they think they have a mandate to "create jobs" and use that excuse to meddle in the corporate sector, fund and bailout their friends, raise taxes so that they can afford bigger bureaucracies which then meddle and bailout even more.

The fringe elements of any movement has its crazies, but can you point to any significant conservatives who believe that the government should stand aside when hundreds of miles of coastline and significant fishing and farming industries are threatened?

They wanted government to stand aside in everything leading up to this situation. Regulations? Communism!

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #336 of 700
6/11/10 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

They wanted government to stand aside in everything leading up to this situation. Regulations? Communism!

Who's 'They' in that sentence?
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #337 of 700
6/11/10 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Who's 'They' in that sentence?

My question exactly. I also don't know many conservatives screaming for government intervention on BP. What I see is criticism of Obama's rhetoric. Personally, I think he's slamming BP far too much. Instead of talking about getting this thing fixed, we're talking about criminal charges. It's all political nonsense--about shifting blame.
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post #338 of 700
6/11/10 at 9:47am
Apparently visiting the nation's worst environmental disaster and helping with cleanup is too much for Sheriff Joe... he's off to the World Cup! Nice to know our government is fully engaged here!

Sorry Barack, I'm watching World Cup, says Biden
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100611/...nm/india492354
JOHANNESBURG (Reuters) – An unabashed U.S. Vice President Joe Biden told President Barack Obama on Friday he was sorry for leaving him behind to manage the oil spill but was thrilled to be watching the World Cup.
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post #339 of 700
6/11/10 at 12:43pm
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Who's 'They' in that sentence?

Take a wild guess. Which group of people wants corporations to just run amok and thinks that's healthy for society?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #340 of 700
6/11/10 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Take a wild guess. Which group of people wants corporations to just run amok and thinks that's healthy for society?

Mostly the corporatists/corporate socialists/fascists/mercantlists of the Democratic and Republican parties.

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post #341 of 700
6/12/10 at 4:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I know many of our lefty friends will walk over hot coals to save their favoured president, but there is no denying that the Obama administration has really messed up this operation, and the catastrophic results will be felt for generations.

There is an abundance of evidence that state governments have been restricted from acting by federal government bureaucracy. The President who had no problem taking over the nation's banking system and automobile industry to save them doesn't think he has the authority to commandeer the effort to contain a national ecological disaster. And his lefty disciples are saying amen.

Now we have news that vital tools to stem the oil's flow have been left sitting in warehouses while Obama fiddles.

Here at AI there was much debate when 9/11 happened and the left here said the fault primarily lay with Bush, even though he had only been in office for nine months. Well Obama's been in office for eighteen months and has been shown to be completely useless at marshalling the nation to confront a liquid threat that was very difficult, but not impossible to contain.

I have to agree with you Frank. The government should be expending every resource available to get this mess stopped. It is a damn shame what is going down there.
That part of the south was one of the most unique environments in the world. It will probably never be the same. It just makes me sick to think about it.
Those people that live down there have been through hell since Katrina and now to have this happen.
It just amazes me how our government can send billions of dollars in aid to other countries when they have disasters, but can't seem to do a thing to help our citizens in time of crisis. I just don't get it.
It is apparent that BP can't handle this disaster on there own and it seems like the government is going to let that once pristine environment be totally destroyed because of there lack of action.
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. Thomas Jefferson
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The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. Thomas Jefferson
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post #342 of 700
6/12/10 at 5:52pm
BushPalin had/have it all covered-

"BP said in the larger document that the company had planned for a worst-case scenario of 12.6 million gallons per day, and that skimming vessels could recover 17.6 million gallons per day.

It also cited a Web site with locations where response supplies were stored on the Gulf Coast. But the Web site address listed took the user to "what appears to be a Japanese social networking site."

As The Associated Press now reports, the plan has even bigger holes:

Among the experts it cites for possible consultation is a professor who died in 2005.

Other experts are listed with incorrect names and phone numbers, and some offices have numbers that are no longer in service.

Someone at BP apparently wasted time worrying about the impact of a spill on walruses, sea lions and seals. None of those creatures is found in or near the Gulf of Mexico.

Theres no mention of the Gulf Loop Current and the possibility of oil being caught up in it and conveyed to south Florida or even the East Coast. (However, the BP plan did project a 21 percent chance of oil reaching the Louisiana coast.)"
~ http://blog.al.com/press-register-co...professor.html

I particularly like the last one, as I'm sure Floridian's and all those other states on the East coast up to about Cape Hatteras would.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #343 of 700
6/12/10 at 11:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

BushPalin had/have it all covered-

How pathetic.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #344 of 700
6/13/10 at 3:53am
Really? Please explain.

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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post #345 of 700
6/13/10 at 10:09am
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0602/mon...lion-bp-stock/

http://www.examiner.com/x-34929-Manh...-Gulf-disaster


looks awfully fishy to me...especially as more evidence comes out that the potential for a major leak was discovered weeks before the event.

Wondering if someone could enlighten me...Isn't BP a British corporation, as well as a non-government entity? Which leads into my other question - how is Obama responsible for this disaster? If Obama is responsible for this leak...wouldn't he, by extension of "logic", be responsible for every cup of overly hot coffee spilled into the lap of every consumer in the U.S.?
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post #346 of 700
6/13/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Really? Please explain.

Trying to collate BP (British Petroleum) with Bush/Palin. That may not be what you intended, but is how you came across. If it was what you intended I would have to agree with Frank777. Lame.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #347 of 700
6/13/10 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

Really? Please explain.

Lamely trying to link Bush and Palin to a disaster effort that the current administration is responsible for.
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post #348 of 700
6/13/10 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by user23 View Post

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0602/mon...lion-bp-stock/

http://www.examiner.com/x-34929-Manh...-Gulf-disaster


looks awfully fishy to me...especially as more evidence comes out that the potential for a major leak was discovered weeks before the event.

Wondering if someone could enlighten me...Isn't BP a British corporation, as well as a non-government entity? Which leads into my other question - how is Obama responsible for this disaster? If Obama is responsible for this leak...wouldn't he, by extension of "logic", be responsible for every cup of overly hot coffee spilled into the lap of every consumer in the U.S.?

Actually, Obama took it upon himself to be the responsible party. It was his choice.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #349 of 700
6/13/10 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Lamely trying to link Bush and Palin to a disaster effort that the current administration is responsible for.

Yeah, it really is lame.

Everybody knows that Reagan started this whole deregulation bullshit that is 100% responsible for this disaster.
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post #350 of 700
6/13/10 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by user23 View Post

Wondering if someone could enlighten me...Isn't BP a British corporation, as well as a non-government entity? Which leads into my other question - how is Obama responsible for this disaster? If Obama is responsible for this leak...wouldn't he, by extension of "logic", be responsible for every cup of overly hot coffee spilled into the lap of every consumer in the U.S.?

No one that I'm aware of has pegged Obama as being responsible for the disaster (in terms of personally causing it.) The longer-term Democratic effort to push drilling out to deeper waters certainly influenced the scope of the disaster.

But Obama is being held "responsible" as he is the sitting U.S. President during an environmental disaster. As such, he is charged with the responsibilities of government, which includes marshalling his country's forces to bring the event to a successful conclusion.

On that front, he is failing miserably.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #351 of 700
6/13/10 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yeah, it really is lame.

Everybody knows that Reagan started this whole deregulation bullshit that is 100% responsible for this disaster.

It is amazing how far back you guys will go to protect Obama's rep.

Deregulation isn't responsible for Obama's incredibly poor response to protecting the coastline, for the lax response to state requests for help, for the equipment sitting in warehouses instead of being delivered to the frontline, for the fact that nations that offered help were turned away.

But yeah, let's blame all this on a president who hasn't been in office for more than two decades. Pathetic.
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post #352 of 700
6/13/10 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

No one that I'm aware of has pegged Obama as being responsible for the disaster (in terms of personally causing it.) The longer-term Democratic effort to push drilling out to deeper waters certainly influenced the scope of the disaster.

But Obama is being held "responsible" as he is the sitting U.S. President during an environmental disaster. As such, he is charged with the responsibilities of government, which includes marshalling his country's forces to bring the event to a successful conclusion.

On that front, he is failing miserably.

He is president and is resposible for solving problems especially ones that occur during his term in office. However what about what Tonton just pointed out?
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post #353 of 700
6/13/10 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

No one that I'm aware of has pegged Obama as being responsible for the disaster (in terms of personally causing it.) The longer-term Democratic effort to push drilling out to deeper waters certainly influenced the scope of the disaster.

But Obama is being held "responsible" as he is the sitting U.S. President during an environmental disaster. As such, he is charged with the responsibilities of government, which includes marshalling his country's forces to bring the event to a successful conclusion.
.



thanks. I worded that poorly. Should have written, "responsible for the mess which is the clean-up effort..."

though, must say, if one reads the drudgereport's extremely leading headlines (and some of the comments on the news sites those headlines click-thru to)...it doesn't seem hard to believe that there is a group of radical conservatives who might actually believe Obama is literally responsible for the leak.
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post #354 of 700
6/13/10 at 11:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

He is president and is resposible for solving problems especially ones that occur during his term in office. However what about what Tonton just pointed out?


what about BP's responsibility in the role? They failed when they kept pumping despite knowing the risks involved after tests indicated a collapse was imminent.


I'm a little lost about the whole clean-up endeavor. Does the U.S. government posses the specialized equipment/chemicals/general means to take care of this? If they don't - who does? Is it the US government's responsibility to possess the means to address every potential eco-disaster which could potentially be created by every corporation? Is it the US government's responsibility to dictate & demand that every corporation (especially foreign corps like BP) possess the means to address potential eco-disasters? People are already fragile enough these days about government oversight & regulation. Seems like a slippery slope to blame Obama for the clean-up disaster because that, to me, implies more & more government intervention/interference in the so-called free market system.


Seems to me those who are really to blame are the corporations (well, in this case, corporation) who utilize the environment for its resources...without having a means of addressing the inevitable problems caused by their utilization (exploitation).

What agency oversees these giant corporations? None, right? Hard to see what the corporations do when they are throwing billions of dollars a year into the eyes & pockets of politicians & leaders everywhere on the planet.

another point of view is perhaps, just perhaps...the parties truly responsible for the cleanup disaster are the people of the planet who allow corporations to dictate what people will & won't accept in their daily lives. Frankly, I'm surprised people aren't marching in the streets of DC demanding change.
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post #355 of 700
6/13/10 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by user23 View Post

perhaps, just perhaps...the parties truly responsible for the cleanup disaster are the people of the planet who allow corporations to dictate what people will & won't accept in their daily lives.

Which corporations are dictating what people will and won't accept in their daily lives?


Quote:
Originally Posted by user23 View Post

Frankly, I'm surprised people aren't marching in the streets of DC demanding change.

People voted for change a couple years ago. And hope too. But they got Barack Obama instead.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #356 of 700
6/13/10 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Everybody knows that Reagan started this whole deregulation bullshit that is 100% responsible for this disaster.

Everyone knows this?

How about everyone on the left believes that Reagan started this whole deregulation bullshit that is 100% responsible for this disaster.

That's a far more believable statement.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #357 of 700
6/13/10 at 11:58am
First and foremost, BP is directly responsible for both the actual event and the subsequent cleanup.

Second, it can be argued that the politicians responsible for pushing drilling out to the far riskier deep water drilling because of their moratoriums and regulations are indirectly responsible.

Third, Barack Obama and his administration are responsible here insofar as they have prevented actions from being taken that might have helped or mitigated this problem. If that is in the form of allowing permission for certain action over which the federal government currently has authority, if it is providing resources that the federal government has obtained through its taxation, if it is other way, then these are the things Barack Obama and his administration are responsible for.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #358 of 700
6/13/10 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by user23 View Post

what about BP's responsibility in the role? They failed when they kept pumping despite knowing the risks involved after tests indicated a collapse was imminent.


I'm a little lost about the whole clean-up endeavor. Does the U.S. government posses the specialized equipment/chemicals/general means to take care of this? If they don't - who does? Is it the US government's responsibility to possess the means to address every potential eco-disaster which could potentially be created by every corporation? Is it the US government's responsibility to dictate & demand that every corporation (especially foreign corps like BP) possess the means to address potential eco-disasters? People are already fragile enough these days about government oversight & regulation. Seems like a slippery slope to blame Obama for the clean-up disaster because that, to me, implies more & more government intervention/interference in the so-called free market system.


Seems to me those who are really to blame are the corporations (well, in this case, corporation) who utilize the environment for its resources...without having a means of addressing the inevitable problems caused by their utilization (exploitation).

What agency oversees these giant corporations? None, right? Hard to see what the corporations do when they are throwing billions of dollars a year into the eyes & pockets of politicians & leaders everywhere on the planet.

another point of view is perhaps, just perhaps...the parties truly responsible for the cleanup disaster are the people of the planet who allow corporations to dictate what people will & won't accept in their daily lives. Frankly, I'm surprised people aren't marching in the streets of DC demanding change.

Quote:
what about BP's responsibility in the role? They failed when they kept pumping despite knowing the risks involved after tests indicated a collapse was imminent.

I'm not letting them off the hook. They designed a system with out the proper safeguards. I mean how many countries have subs that go that deep? 4 maybe. Also I'm willing to bet that CEO will be trying to live down that statement of wanting his life back for the rest of his life.

Corporations ( and always higher profits at any cost ) now days are the big tit that everyone uses but is at the heart of most of the world's ills.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #359 of 700
6/13/10 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Corporations ( and always higher profits at any cost ) now days are the big tit that everyone uses but is at the heart of most of the world's ills.

This is simply false. But thanks for showing your true Marxist leanings.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #360 of 700
6/14/10 at 3:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Trying to collate BP (British Petroleum) with Bush/Palin. That may not be what you intended, but is how you came across. If it was what you intended I would have to agree with Frank777. Lame.

I think you mean BP, not British Petroleum, that's the old name.

I think BushPalin is better though. You know, what with Cheney and drilling babies and telling us just how safe and clean drilling is and the more we do, including in the Arctic, the better and cleaner a world we'll leave for our children and their children and if they have kids their children too. I'm not sure about after that though, things might start to get less clean then, but we'll just have to wait and see won't we?

"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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"If your enemies cannot find a flaw in your reasoning, they will find it in your reputation".

~ William Hazlitt

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