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Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez - Page 16

post #601 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I just read Obama is now accepting offers of foreign help on this matter. I guess it only took 70 days of so of our "improved trust and understanding" with the world for him to desire such help.

This is a good textbook example of Obama's ego on display; he really didn't care about what Americans thought of him about this oil spill but how foreigners view him concerns him greatly. Thus, he awaited asking for foreign help for two months plus... recall his European "The One" Tour after his inauguration - asking for their help doesn't square with his deity image abroad. Expect Obama & Co. to advance and project the "prior administration petroleum links" meme heavily in the weeks to come...
post #602 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm going on the assumption that a U.S. District Court Judge of 27 years, a person who has been practicing law for 53 years, is correct in their legal judgement and that those who claim that his decision lacks merit have the burden of proof on their side. And, further, that people who want to hang their hat on the "obvious conflict of interest" are taking a short cut through the burden of proof, logic and legal rationale because its just easier to make innuendo and implications of impropriety. Now if the those who disagree with the decision do find that there are legal problems with the decision, then I will look at that and give it its due consideration.

That's very convenient when you support the decision. I just hope you give the same consideration when a court rules in a way with which you disagree.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #603 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That's very convenient when you support the decision. I just hope you give the same consideration when a court rules in a way with which you disagree.

Convenient or not how 'bout, if I disagree with such a legal decision (and there have been some already), I'll do my best to focus on the merits (or lack thereof) of the legal decision and logic as opposed to simply implying that the decision is bad because of who made it and their "obvious conflict of interest?" How's that? Fair?

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post #604 of 700
If the decision were so obvious and so merited, why not recuse himself and have another well qualified judge who lacks said conflict of interest make the same decision?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #605 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

If the decision were so obvious and so merited, why not recuse himself and have another well qualified judge who lacks said conflict of interest make the same decision?

See, here we go again.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #606 of 700
Red tape keeps Gulf marsh cleanup on hold:

Quote:
At a lab on Grand Isle, La., at the edge of Barataria Bay, biologists hoping to help save the oil-soiled marshlands are at the ready with a vat containing 30,000 gallons of homegrown oil-eating bacteria. But its been weeks since the oil started washing up here, and still they await final clearance to begin work.
Its frustrating for the scientists, who plan to spray large sections of the soiled marsh with this microbial stew consisting of nutrients and three naturally occurring bacteria that eat oil to help rid the fragile ecosystem of toxic oil.

This approach known as bioremediation is effective, especially if it is done soon after the oiling, they say. And it does less damage than some of the traditional methods used in marsh cleanup, such as burning and skimming.

But getting approval from the bureaucracy assembled to respond to the BP oil spill is slower than trudging through marsh mud in waders.
The bureaucracy is killing us, said Ralph Portier, an environmental biologist at Louisiana State University who started offering his expertise in marsh bioremediation shortly after the spill, and well before oil invaded the marshes on May 22.

Were waiting for people in Washington to agree with people in Robert, La., that its OK to talk to a guy in Houma (La.) to tell people in Baton Rouge thats its OK to do something down on Dauphin Island or wherever. Pick your spot, he said.

In other words, after BP and federal officials at the joint command center in Robert agree on a plan of attack which may include bioremediation or other methods they have to seek approval from higher-ups in Washington before contacting the spill operations center in Houma and consulting with the local parish government for its buy-in. Only then can they inform the state that its OK to go ahead with cleaning up a given area.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #607 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Red tape keeps Gulf marsh cleanup on hold:

Sounds like par for the governmental course...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #608 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

See, here we go again.

No, really though. Why even leave yourself open to the questions? If the case were so clear, any reasonable judge would rule the same way. Why did this judge have to be the one to make the ruling? Why not recuse himself? What's the downside?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #609 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

No, really though. Why even leave yourself open to the questions? If the case were so clear, any reasonable judge would rule the same way. Why did this judge have to be the one to make the ruling? Why not recuse himself? What's the downside?

No, really though. Why not just attack the legal reasoning of the decision?

I have no idea why he did not recuse himself. Since this issue is being appealed perhaps we'll find out whether a higher court finds a problem with the decision. Until then it seems that all anyone opposed to the decision can muster is simply innuendo as you are doing here.

Another way to look at it is that he looked at the case and found the decision to be so obvious that it would stand on its own merits to anyone who chose to look past his "obvious conflict of interest", so he just made the call. I really don't know. My quarrel is with the superficiality with which the critics have approached this.

Let put it this way: Maybe the decision is a bad legal decision. That is certainly possible. But the punditry does not appear to be directly questioning and investigating that, instead it is content with simply talking around the edges and trying to leave the implication that it must be bad because, well he has an "obvious conflict of interest" and he's "in the back pocket of 'Big Oil'."


Perhaps a dose of facts might be helpful here:

Judge sold Exxon stock just before drilling ruling:

Quote:
A federal judge who overturned a six-month ban on deepwater drilling in the Gulf of Mexico says he learned he owned Exxon stock several hours after he heard the case.

A statement released by U.S. District Judge Martin Feldman's chambers in New Orleans says the judge instructed his broker to sell his stock in Exxon and a subsidiary as soon as the market opened June 22. That was the day after the hearing.

Feldman says his broker told him his stock was sold several hours before he struck down the Obama administration's drilling moratorium. The judge also said he didn't know if he made a profit or loss on the sale.

Exxon isn't a party in the case, but the company had one of the 33 existing exploratory rigs shut down by the moratorium imposed because of the Gulf spill.


Judge In Moratorium Case Sold Exxon Stock This Week:

Quote:
The judge bought less than $15,000 of Exxon stock in December 2009, according to the documents.

As of the end of 2009, Judge Feldman does not appear to have owned stock in any other company using rigs affected by the moratorium, according to a review of his holdings and a list of such companies provided by staff of Sen. Robert Menendez, a Democrat from New Jersey who sits on the Senate's energy and natural resources committee.

Quote:
In 2008, Judge Feldman owned a stake in Transocean Ltd. (RIG), the company that owned the Deepwater Horizon rig, but the documents suggest he sold those holdings in 2009.


Moratorium judge owned shares in 17 oil and gas industry firms last year:

Quote:
Feldman’s 2008 report said he had sold his interests in Quicksilver Resources, a natural gas and oil exploration company based in Fort Worth. His latest disclosure form, however, shows he earned dividends of less than $1,000 on his investment in the company last year, the value of which he reported at less than $15,000.

The financial disclosure forms require that judges provide only a range of values, rather than the actual amounts of their interests.

Feldman also bought shares in Exxon Mobil last year, according to the report, also with a value below $15,000. Dow Jones News Service reported that Feldman sold his Exxon holdings on June 22, just before hearing the case. Exxon Mobil has interests in the Gulf that were affected by the moratorium, Dow Jones reported.

The judge last year bought or retained interest of that same value range in Valero Energy Corp., Crosstex Energy, Petrohawk Energy Corp., Enterprise Product Partners, Energy Transfer Equity, Basic Energy Services, EV Energy Partners, Macquarie Infrastructure, El Paso Corp., Provident Energy Trust, Peabody Energy Corp. and Ocean Energy Notes, the report said.

Feldman reported that he sold shares in August in Atlas Energy Resources and BPZ Resource Inc., posting gains of less than $1,000 on each.

So we're saying here that a guy who makes over $160,000 a year as a judge is going to deliberately make decision that, at best, affects a few thousand dollars of his investment portfolio?


But how about what the judge said about the moratorium, since that's what's really important here:

http://www.glgroup.com/News/Drilling...ase-49245.html

Quote:
On June 22, 2010, U.S. District Judge Martin Feldman granted Hornbeck's motion for a preliminary injunction and enjoined enforcement of any moratorium. Judge Feldman found that the MMS was arbitrary in enacting such a wide-ranging moratorium and did not act in accordance with the laws governing decision-making by federal agencies. The Court was particularly troubled by the Department of Interior's reference to deepwater drilling in depths of 1,000 feet or more in his report, yet the moratorium defined deepwateras 500 feet. Judge Feldman further found that it was incomprehensible how the studies cited by the government justified the moratorium and concluded that sort of thinking seems heavy-handed, and rather overbearing.

The court concluded that the government has failed to cogently reflect the decision to issue a blanket, generic, indeed punitive, moratorium. The court also expressed concerns with the Department of Interiors statement that the moratorium had been subject to review by leading scientists and engineers who consulted on the preparation of the report when those same experts had publicly stated that they had never discussed a six-month moratorium with the Department of Interior nor would have recommended such a reaction had they been so informed. The government characterized the issue as a mistake on their part and stated that MMS or the Department of Interior did not have to submit the idea of a moratorium to the experts for a comment.

The court then concluded that the plaintiffs had demonstrated irreparable harm to themselves and the public arising out of the moratorium. It accepted the fact that the effect of a moratorium would ripple throughout the economy of this region and found that the government was trivializing the effects of the moratorium. In granting the injunction, the court held that an invalid agency decision to suspend drilling of wells in depths of over 500 feet simply cannot justify the immeasurable effect on the plaintiffs, the local economy, the Gulf region, and the critical present-day aspect of the availability of domestic energy in this region.

The government has appealed Judge Feldman's order to the United States Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans. It asked Judge Feldman to stay his injunction pending appeal, but that request was rejected by Judge Feldman. The Fifth Circuit will consider whether to stay the injunction at a hearing on July 8. The government's brief on its appeal of the injunction is due by August 9.


P.S. It's interesting. I don't recall a similar level of skepticism when Barack Obama, as President of the United States, used all of his available power to help bail out the UAW who was a major financial contributor to and political supporter of his campaign for the presidency, in fact a major force in actually getting him elected.

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post #610 of 700
Hmm, looks like the conflict of interest is actually more like a tempest in a teapot.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #611 of 700
Republicans banned from Obama's Failure => The New Orleans news site Nola reports that the Democratic leadership in Congress wont allow members to use their official accounts to pay for travel to the Gulf and to assess the administrations response for themselves:

"House members who had planned to travel to Louisiana next week for a tour and meetings on the Gulf of Mexico oil spill being organized by Rep. Steve Scalise wont be able to tap their member accounts to cover the costs, the Republican congressman said he was told Tuesday."

http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-sp...ustrate_c.html

Democrats dont want the media or our elected officials to see whats happening in the Gulf...
post #612 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

See, here we go again.

We never stopped.
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post #613 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And he made a judgement that clearly benifited big oil,

...yes, and it benefited the citizens that work for Big Oil as well. Perhaps he's in their back pocket? Come to think of it, those people have to eat...which means he might also be in the back pocket of Big Lunch Trucks and/or Big Grocery.

Quote:
which if you were prudent you'd try to find out anything you could as to why this disaster happened ( you know to keep something like it from happening again ) before going ahead with any more drilling. The truth is we really still don't know exactly what happened besides the methane bubble. End of story.

So, because we don't know what happened, we should suspend ALL drilling--in shallow and deep waters? Do we ground all airplanes for 6 months because we had a crash?

Quote:

Also you keep using " Your " when clearly I've shown that I'm not the only one saying this.

YOU are the one posting here, making the argument that the Obama admin is correct to shut down ALL drilling. YOU are the one who said that the judge is "in the pocket" of Big Oil. YOU. The fact that some people agree with you is completely irrelevant. If they use that characterization, they are also without evidence for their assertions.

A few thousand wrongs doesn't make a right. But it does sometimes make a jimmac.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #614 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

...yes, and it benefited the citizens that work for Big Oil as well. Perhaps he's in their back pocket? Come to think of it, those people have to eat...which means he might also be in the back pocket of Big Lunch Trucks and/or Big Grocery.



So, because we don't know what happened, we should suspend ALL drilling--in shallow and deep waters? Do we ground all airplanes for 6 months because we had a crash?



YOU are the one posting here, making the argument that the Obama admin is correct to shut down ALL drilling. YOU are the one who said that the judge is "in the pocket" of Big Oil. YOU. The fact that some people agree with you is completely irrelevant. If they use that characterization, they are also without evidence for their assertions.

A few thousand wrongs doesn't make a right. But it does sometimes make a jimmac.


Quote:
YOU are the one posting here, making the argument that the Obama admin is correct to shut down ALL drilling. YOU are the one who said that the judge is "in the pocket" of Big Oil. YOU. The fact that some people agree with you is completely irrelevant. If they use that characterization, they are also without evidence for their assertions.


You, you, you! Honestly you're a master at portraying something and making it seem like something else. It's not just me! It's several people that think this SDW Many of them here!
Get real SDW!
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post #615 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You, you, you! Honestly you're a master at portraying something and making it seem like something else. It's not just me! It's several people that think this SDW Many of them here!
Get real SDW!

Always hiding behind the crowd. Just stand up like a man and say "This is what I think." Fuck what everyone else thinks.

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post #616 of 700
Day by Day appropriately describes the tar & feathers treatment for Obama =>



http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/

TAR & FEATHERS!!!
post #617 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Always hiding behind the crowd. Just stand up like a man and say "This is what I think." Fuck what everyone else thinks.

Quote:
Always hiding behind the crowd

I'll remind you of that the next time anyone of you talking to me uses " We " like it was a board of inquiry or something.
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post #618 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Day by Day appropriately describes the tar & feathers treatment for Obama =>



http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/

TAR & FEATHERS!!!

Ok.

Her secret : Glen Palin




Yes we want these scary Bozo's running the country :















And lastly what every good wing nut knows :



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post #619 of 700
I don't understand the Left's obsession with Rush Limbaugh.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #620 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I don't understand the Left's obsession with Rush Limbaugh.

I don't understand Rush's obsession with the left.
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post #621 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I don't understand Rush's obsession with the left.

It is called a paycheck. Easy right?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
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post #622 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

It is called a paycheck. Easy right?

It's impossible for them to believe that he could actually be doing it because so many advertisers are chomping at the bit to be on his show. Love him or hate him, he's the most popular man in radio.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #623 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

It is called a paycheck. Easy right?

Well at least you admit what he's all about this monument to the conservative movement.

Now that we've established what he's all about he'll be easy pickings in the future.
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post #624 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It's impossible for them to believe that he could actually be doing it because so many advertisers are chomping at the bit to be on his show. Love him or hate him, he's the most popular man in radio.

Speaking of popularity so are the " The Star " and The Enquirer ".
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post #625 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Speaking of popularity so are the " The Star " and The Enquirer ".

Wait just one second!

Aren't you the who is always "Oh yeah well a bunch of people all agree with me" and "well most of the country feels this way too" and "well that's how the majority of people think" as a means of trying to pretend to win arguments around here?

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post #626 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Wait just one second!

Aren't you the who is always "Oh yeah well a bunch of people all agree with me" and "well most of the country feels this way too" and "well that's how the majority of people think" as a means of trying to pretend to win arguments around here?

The majority don't agree with Limbaugh or the Enquirer please!

Popularity and agreement are two different things.
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post #627 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The majority don't agree with Limbaugh or the Enquirer please!

Popularity and agreement are two different things.

Geez.

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post #628 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Geez.

He, he!
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post #629 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Popularity and agreement are two different things.

I'll remember this the next time I hear about how popular Barack Obama is (and was).

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post #630 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'll remember this the next time I hear about how popular Barack Obama is (and was).

Be sure and remind trumpy that his popularity polls are meaningless also.

No one ever said fixing these problems would be easy. Some downturn in his popularity was to be expected.

Also just because people have lost some faith in Obama doesn't mean they're going to run right back to the one's who were in power when this all started.

One doesn't automatically imply the other.
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post #631 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Be sure and remind trumpy that his popularity polls are meaningless also.

I'll let you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No one ever said fixing these problems would be easy.

And it's even harder when you do stupid stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Some downturn in his popularity was to be expected.

I couldn't give a shit about Obama's popularity except when it enables him to do stupid stuff.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Also just because people have lost some faith in Obama doesn't mean they're going to run right back to the one's who were in power when this all started.

One doesn't automatically imply the other.

Thanks Einstein. But as you have pointed out frequently, the current political brands don't seem to allow for a 3rd (i.e., a viable third party) so, ultimately, when people figure out the Obama has fucked things up worse than Bush, well they might change their tune.

Face it, many of the people who supported Obama either a) supported the grand of idea of a historical (i.e., black) president, b) the dream (delusion) of Hope and Change, or c) simply a change away from one thing (Bush's policies) but not necessarily toward another thing (Obama's policies). Once people started to get wind of what Obama actually had planned, then the support started to drop.

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post #632 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'll let you.




And it's even harder when you do stupid stuff.




I couldn't give a shit about Obama's popularity except when it enables him to do stupid stuff.




Thanks Einstein. But as you have pointed out frequently, the current political brands don't seem to allow for a 3rd (i.e., a viable third party) so, ultimately, when people figure out the Obama has fucked things up worse than Bush, well they might change their tune.

Face it, many of the people who supported Obama either a) supported the grand of idea of a historical (i.e., black) president, b) the dream (delusion) of Hope and Change, or c) simply a change away from one thing (Bush's policies) but not necessarily toward another thing (Obama's policies). Once people started to get wind of what Obama actually had planned, then the support started to drop.

All of that still doesn't mean they'll vote Republican next time or even that they won't vote Democratic as it may seem as the lesser of evils. Personally I was hoping for Hillary during the last election as I think she would have jumped on the economy the same way her husband did back in the 90's. But I still think Obama is better than the alternative.
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post #633 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

...she would have jumped on the economy the same way her husband did back in the 90's.

Have a rather foggy recollection of history huh?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

But I still think Obama is better than the alternative.

Maybe someday you'll get over it.

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post #634 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Have a rather foggy recollection of history huh?




Maybe someday you'll get over it.

Quote:
Have a rather foggy recollection of history huh?

No. It's just that unlike you I get my history from this reality. Not some rightwing wet dream.

Quote:
Maybe someday you'll get over it

Well maybe the Republicans will someday have a viable candidate.
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post #635 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Well maybe the Republicans will someday have a viable candidate.

Come 2012, the Republicans could run a life-size inflatable doll of Krusty the Clown and win the election easily. Obama and the Establishment are laying the groundwork as we speak.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #636 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Come 2012, the Republicans could run a life-size inflatable doll of Krusty the Clown and win the election easily. Obama and the Establishment are laying the groundwork as we speak.

Or not. Lot's of things could happen between now and then. You're counting on this situation staying the same which it won't. That's one thing you can count on.
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post #637 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

No. It's just that unlike you I get my history from this reality.

Not if you think Clinton, on his own, without the prompting of the American public in the form of the 1996 ass-kicking, helped the economy.

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post #638 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Or not. Lot's of things could happen between now and then. You're counting on this situation staying the same which it won't. That's one thing you can count on.

That's true. I predict things will get worse...unless...Obamanomics does a major about-face.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #639 of 700
I guess BP knows how to save time and money- http://www.fastcompany.com/1665971/i...isiana-beaches
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #640 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Come 2012, the Republicans could run a life-size inflatable doll....

I think that's what known as a Freudian slip. Too slippery perhaps.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
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