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Gulf Coast oil spill could eclipse Exxon Valdez - Page 18

post #681 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Sorry; if you can't see the danger in a president making a campaign commitment to bankrupt a private American industry there is little hope for you. Go back to HuffingtonPost and applaud Ariana....

And I'm sorry you see the world in the unrealistic, partisan way you do.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #682 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

And I'm sorry you see the world in the unrealistic, partisan way you do.

I literally laugh out loud every time you accuse someone else of being "partisan".

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #683 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Yes



Yes

One example; there are thousands...

The thing is that many Repubs have stocks in dirty energy since they are short sighted idiots. If Obama does anything like a moratorium on deep sea drilling these guys buy airtime and creep into the minds of the dumb to convince them that clean energy is a bad thing.

Take your $ out of coal and oil and put it into solar for massive returns, massive. This is one of the reasons why I make sooo much $ right now.
Yeah and add to the deficit to keep my tax rates low, thanks! But don't help the unemployed because they are lazy.

Let's tax the polluters to death. If you pollute the air you are no longer a "private company". The air or water is not yours to pollute. Ask god.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #684 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I literally laugh out loud every time you accuse someone else of being "partisan".

Glad it is not just me.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #685 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

The thing is that many Repubs have stocks in dirty energy since they are short sighted idiots. If Obama does anything like a moratorium on deep sea drilling these guys buy airtime and creep into the minds of the dumb to convince them that clean energy is a bad thing.

If reality ever knocks on your front door you should let it in! I know you green ecos are dead set on banning petroleum in the United States but the existing 136 million cars, 110 million trucks, about 1 million buses - all running on internal combustion gasoline - for a total of 247 million registered vehicles (2007) may have other plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Take your $ out of coal and oil and put it into solar for massive returns, massive. This is one of the reasons why I make sooo much $ right now.
Yeah and add to the deficit to keep my tax rates low, thanks! But don't help the unemployed because they are lazy.

Solar huh? You have any idea how many decades it would take to retool every home from a coal/oil/electric heating furnace to solar heating, even if it were remotely possible? Moreover, there are few sites east of the Mississippi that receive enough unobstructed solar energy to make it even feasible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

TLet's tax the polluters to death. If you pollute the air you are no longer a "private company".

How about let's tax Democrats every time they come up with silly ideas? Far more productive...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

The air or water is not yours to pollute. Ask god.

Did I mention you don't know God? I should have:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him: male and female image, created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
Genesis i: 26, 27, 28.
post #686 of 700
The funny thing is actually declares he's "make soooo much $(money)" but he isn't making money. He's getting paid by the government that is distorting the market.

It is hilarious that he thinks everyone could do this and we would all turn out fine. Solar, while a wonder thought, is not cost competitive with other technologies. However if you have the government steal from the winners and give to the losers, then of course you can win by becoming a loser too. Somehow we can all become losers and when there are no winners to steal from, we will all be rich!

Fantastic reasoning of course.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #687 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

The thing is that many Repubs have stocks in dirty energy since they are short sighted idiots. If Obama does anything like a moratorium on deep sea drilling these guys buy airtime and creep into the minds of the dumb to convince them that clean energy is a bad thing.

Take your $ out of coal and oil and put it into solar for massive returns, massive. This is one of the reasons why I make sooo much $ right now.
Yeah and add to the deficit to keep my tax rates low, thanks! But don't help the unemployed because they are lazy.

Let's tax the polluters to death. If you pollute the air you are no longer a "private company". The air or water is not yours to pollute. Ask god.

While there is so much fun stuff to address in this logical, fact-base and rational statement. I'll just cherry pick for now.

Your claim is that the people who invest in the currently predominant energy sources are unwise.
(You might not have recognized what I'm saying here because I phrased in such an irrational and emotional way, so let me put it as you did: "many Repubs have stocks in dirty energy since they are short sighted idiots")

You also claim that people should change their investments from the current energy industries to the newer ones such as solar. In fact you claim that, well, let me quote you directly: "Take your $ out of coal and oil and put it into solar for massive returns, massive." (emphasis mine)

All of this could be reasonably summarized as: People investing in the current primary energy industries are dumb and bad investors, while those investing in the newer energy industries are smart and good investors.

Is this fair summary?

Now the fun part. You claim "massive" returns ("massive returns, massive") for investment in solar energy in particular. My question is that, without government subsidies, tax breaks and other forms of welfare, what kind of returns could I expect from investing in this industry? No need to be precise in your investment advice...just a range of ROI might be a helpful guide. In simplest terms, if I invested, say, $100 in some solar company, how much could I expect that investment to be worth 1 year later?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #688 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


Now the fun part. You claim "massive" returns ("massive returns, massive") for investment in solar energy in particular. My question is that, without government subsidies, tax breaks and other forms of welfare, what kind of returns could I expect from investing in this industry? No need to be precise in your investment advice...just a range of ROI might be a helpful guide. In simplest terms, if I invested, say, $100 in some solar company, how much could I expect that investment to be worth 1 year later?

Oil and coal gets about 1100% (89Billion/year) more government subsidies than solar or wind (9 Billion) . WTF are you talking about?
What would the return be on oil and coal if we eliminate all the tax breaks and start charging the same fees for land use?
If you are happy with investing into the destruction of this planet go ahead.

Your $100 will be worth $114 in solar. If you actually purchase panels for your house you will make about 120/month for at least 30 years (that's with current E prices) with an initial cost of 13,000 out of pocket.

In oil and coal your 100 would be worth 89.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #689 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Oil and coal gets about 1100% (89Billion/year) more government subsidies than solar or wind (9 Billion) . WTF are you talking about?
What would the return be on oil and coal if we eliminate all the tax breaks and start charging the same fees for land use?

I would be more than happy to see all tax breaks and subsidies specific to any one industry ended.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Your $100 will be worth $114 in solar. If you actually purchase panels for your house you will make about 120/month for at least 30 years (that's with current E prices) with an initial cost of 13,000 out of pocket.

In oil and coal your 100 would be worth 89.

So your claim is that if I invest in solar, my annual return on investment will be 14% whereas if I invest in coal or oil it will be -11%. Is that correct? Do these number reflect averages over some reasonable period of time or extremes (e.g., a best high in a good year and a worst low in a bad year)? Furthermore, do these returns come with all government welfare factored all-in?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #690 of 700
Michelle O on vacationing in Gulf => "Everyone should come here!"

Michelle O on vacation plans => "Maine!"
post #691 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I would be more than happy to see all tax breaks and subsidies specific to any one industry ended.

Correcting myself: The 89Bill is only for oil not for coal and it is yearly while the 9 Bill is part of the stimulus and only a one time investment.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

So your claim is that if I invest in solar, my annual return on investment will be 14% whereas if I invest in coal or oil it will be -11%. Is that correct? Do these number reflect averages over some reasonable period of time or extremes (e.g., a best high in a good year and a worst low in a bad year)? Furthermore, do these returns come with all government welfare factored all-in?

You can calculate this with very simple math. The environmental cost of dirty energy is huge and can not even be expressed in $. I would say 100$ in coal or oil will be worth - 100$ if you really combine all the negatives. As to government welfare compared to oil and coal there is none. Aren't you on the side where gov is hated?
The return from solar depends on the way you invest. Stock in a solar company will not pay as much as owning solar generation like I do (depends on your control in the company you invest in). My wife started a program donating solar power systems to animal shelters. She is a sucker for animals and it combines charitable donations with environmentalism, huge PR value for her company and tax credits, pretty much the most you can get for your $ right now.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #692 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

You can calculate this with very simple math. The environmental cost of dirty energy is huge and can not even be expressed in $. I would say 100$ in coal or oil will be worth - 100$ if you really combine all the negatives.

As to government welfare compared to oil and coal there is none. Aren't you on the side where gov is hated?
The return from solar depends on the way you invest. Stock in a solar company will not pay as much as owning solar generation like I do (depends on your control in the company you invest in). My wife started a program donating solar power systems to animal shelters. She is a sucker for animals and it combines charitable donations with environmentalism, huge PR value for her company and tax credits, pretty much the most you can get for your $ right now.

I thought it was a fairly simple and straightforward set of questions, but you haven't answered them. \


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

As to government welfare compared to oil and coal there is none.

I wasn't asking about the relative amount of welfare. Welfare is welfare. You seem to want to excuse one form or type of welfare because a) it's less than some other kind and b) it benefits you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Aren't you on the side where gov is hated?

Yes, for the most part.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #693 of 700
BP Oil Spill: Clean-Up Crews Can't Find Crude in the Gulf:

Quote:
As Size of Slick Shrinks, Experts Say Oil is Breaking Up, Staying Below Surface


Quote:
At its peak last month, the oil slick was the size of Kansas, but it has been rapidly shrinking, now down to the size of New Hampshire.

Today, ABC News surveyed a marsh area and found none, and even on a flight out to the rig site Sunday with the Coast Guard, there was no oil to be seen.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #694 of 700
Where do I start with the green energy crowd? This country will be dependent on fossil fuels for a long time. Might as well face it. Windmills and solar panels won't cut it. Nuclear would be a nice alternative, but the left seems to hate that too. Some of us havent fallen for the global warming hoax.
post #695 of 700
Seems like the oil is going away. Maybe nature is taking care of this as Rush said it would. So much for the hand wringing leftist green clowns.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews_excl/y...pphu-container
post #696 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

Seems like the oil is going away.

Thousands of oil per day billowing up from the ocean floor for 80 days and now, suddenly, fall campaign season begins for Democrats and oil in Gulf mysteriously disappears!

post #697 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

Seems like the oil is going away. Maybe nature is taking care of this as Rush said it would. So much for the hand wringing leftist green clowns.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews_excl/y...pphu-container

Quote:
as Rush said it would.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #698 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Common Man View Post

Seems like the oil is going away. Maybe nature is taking care of this as Rush said it would. So much for the hand wringing leftist green clowns.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews_excl/y...pphu-container

Rush is god.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #699 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Did I mention you don't know God? I should have:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him: male and female image, created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
Genesis i: 26, 27, 28.

You claim to know god?
The words of unadulterated evil.

Thank for reminding us that the Bible is the book of evil.
yes I want oil genocide.
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yes I want oil genocide.
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post #700 of 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

You claim to know god?

I do and his name, God, is typically capitalized. Show some respect to your betters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

The words of unadulterated evil.

Democrat Party discussion? Okay... I'll accept that. Relevance to this topic however?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormhole View Post

Thank for reminding us that the Bible is the book of evil.

This is the thread for discussion of Obama's BP assault on the environment. There is, however, a Christian and a Muslim thread for religious discussion... take it there...
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