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Honestly, do you think the rich pay their fair share of taxes? - Page 2

post #41 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Seriously. Why do you hate the poor so much?

Seriously. I don't. Since you bring it up though, based on the actual (not intended) effects of liberal public policy I can only assume that they hate the poor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

It's obvious that you think they are the scum of the Earth. Everything that comes out of you is about how terrible it is to help people who have less (in this case the UAW) and not to help people who have more (in this case the people who sit in their multi-million dollar homes or in Wall Street offices with huge stock portfolios).

It's unfortunate that your perception and interpretation (or characterization) of my statements and views is so completely wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

I think your hatred for the poor is a sickness.

And I think your gross misunderstanding (or mis-characterization) of my views is sad and unfortunate. But, alas, I cannot control what you chose to think or believe about me.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You missed the part about her cutting thousands of jobs when she moved them out of the country. Try again.

So she cut American jobs but created jobs elsewhere? Did she, ummm, redistribute jobs from those who have more to those who have less?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #43 of 49
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

So she cut American jobs but created jobs elsewhere? Did she, ummm, redistribute jobs from those who have more to those who have less?

Yes, she did, but she did not do it to help those who had less. She did it to save a buck. You know, free market?

She also did this at the expense of corporate image and quality. Which led to a substantial crash in the economy of HP.

Free market forces at work. Lead to economic crash. Not the first time it's happened. And it surely won't be the last.
post #44 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yes, she did, but she did not do it to help those who had less. She did it to save a buck.

So your problem is with her intentions vs. results?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #45 of 49
I thought you had already wasted enough time. I guess not.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #46 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Except that I didn't say that. Read again.

Well, it was implied with your response, and I notice you ignore the other parts of my post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

This is your assertion and as such is up to you to prove for your opening post. I have seen more facts from MJ then you have been willing to admit and your argument is seeming to fall apart. For example. People who earn 100,000 can live comfortably anywhere is bogus. You know it so you alter the guideline and say, if they can't they need to move to where they can. Your whole premise is based on the fact that they don't pay what you think they should to where you think they should pay it for the reasons you want them to pay. Hard hitting.


And to add to that, they don't live where you think they should live to exist under your proposed tax burden... How inconsiderate of them...

Under your proposal the people who are stuck in the slums and barrios should move to a cheaper place to live, like say, a remote part of Mexico, so they can exist without being in poverty. Of course, they will not longer have the jobs there, but that is a minute point right?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #47 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Beardsley View Post

No, I was referring to the buying of UAW votes by giving them a larger stake in the new GM than the private bondholders. However it was the private Bondholders that were owed more money than the UAW.

(Amazing how GM can turn a near 4 billion dollar loss in the previous quarter to having an extra 6 billion to pay off loans. Oh wait, they didn't use money they made from selling cars, they just used more TARP money. rofl)

I suppose that's why they're opening new plants.

http://gm-volt.com/2010/01/16/gm-to-...c-motor-plant/

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/...-factory_N.htm

http://green.yahoo.com/blog/ecogeek/...ack-plant.html

http://green.yahoo.com/blog/ecogeek/...ack-plant.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_543816.html

From where I stand it looks like they've started to recover which was the whole point of the bail out wasn't it?

Can you show me a link that says they used the money for what it wasn't intended?

Can you show me the bail out didn't have the intended result?

Now I suppose someone who I'm not talking to will chime in.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #48 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I suppose that's why they're opening new plants.

No they aren't. Please provide a link for this claim. The most I've heard is they are investing some money in some existing plants.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

From where I stand it looks like they've started to recover which was the whole point of the bail out wasn't it?

No. The real point of the bailout was to help payoff the UAW for getting Barack Obama elected. The point sold the the American public was to save the company because otherwise there would be hell and damnation visited upon the economy. And you bought the public line hook, line and sinker.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Can you show me a link that says they used the money for what it wasn't intended?

Here's one. And another. From the second one:

Quote:
The Congressional Budget Office estimates taxpayers will lose about $36 billion on the bailouts of automakers.


And another:

Quote:
The TARP inspector general, Neil Barofsky, bluntly told the Senate Finance Committee during a hearing last week that the repayment "is just other TARP money" and lawmakers should not "exaggerate" the feat.

"It sounds like they're kind of like taking money out of one pocket and putting it in the other to do that," Sen. Tom Carper, D-Del., said at the hearing.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #49 of 49

Well that's great. It's good to read that they've opened a plant, have plans for another and will have another re-tooled later this year. Maybe GM's near-death experience has spooked it into running a profitable and successful business. Only time will tell of course.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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