or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Head of Microsoft's Internet Explorer says HTML5 is the 'future'
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Head of Microsoft's Internet Explorer says HTML5 is the 'future'

post #1 of 81
Thread Starter 
Following Apple co-founder Steve Jobs' comments this week predicting Adobe Flash will fall to open standards like HTML5, the general manager of Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser agreed and said HTML5 is "the future of the Web."

Dean Hachamovitch, general manager for Microsoft's Internet Explorer team, indirectly referenced the conflict between Jobs and Adobe on Thursday, when he wrote on the IEBlog about support for HTML5 in Internet Explorer. He noted that the forthcoming IE9 will support hardware acceleration with H.264-encoded HTML5 video playback in Windows 7.

"The future of the web is HTML5. Microsoft is deeply engaged in the HTML5 process with the W3C," Hachamovitch wrote. "HTML5 will be very important in advancing rich, interactive web applications and site design. The HTML5 specification describes video support without specifying a particular video format. We think H.264 is an excellent format. In its HTML5 support, IE9 will support playback of H.264 video only."

Apple played a prominent role in the growth of the MPEG H.264 video codec by making it the standard for compression in iTunes. Now an industry standard, H.264 has broad hardware support, which allows users to easily film video, put it on the Web, and have it play on any operating system or device, Hachamovitch noted.

The IE general manager also acknowledged that most video on the Web today is based on Adobe Flash, and using a browser without Flash is difficult. But he also admitted that Flash has "issues."

"While video may be available in other formats, the ease of accessing video using just a browser on a particular website without using Flash is a challenge for typical consumers," he wrote. "Flash does have some issues, particularly around reliability, security and performance. We work closely with engineers at Adobe, sharing information about the issues we know of in ongoing technical discussions. Despite these issues, Flash remains an important part of delivering a good consumer experience on today's web."

While Hachamovitch's comments did not specifically acknowledge it, they came just hours after Apple's Jobs publicly slammed Flash, suggesting the Web format was created for the "PC era," while the world is currently moving to the "mobile era." Jobs said that Flash is prone to cause crashes, hurts battery life on mobile devices, and is not designed for touch screens.

Later Thursday, Adobe's CEO fired back, suggesting that most crashes of Flash in OS X are not related to his software, but instead are the fault of Apple's operating system. Shantanu Narayen said that his company and Apple have different views of the world, and Adobe believes the future is multi-platform. He said Flash allows developers to write software and provide video in one format and have it accessible on a range of devices, while Apple's App Store is restricted to the iPhone OS ecosystem.

Microsoft's comments indicate that it, like Apple, is placing the majority of its browser support for streaming video behind HTML5. Apple has banned Flash from its iPhone OS-powered line of devices, including the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad. Users with that hardware can watch streaming video with HTML5 or through software available on the App Store.
post #2 of 81
Of course it's the future. Steve said so, already!
post #3 of 81
what do you expect from a me too company? a me too statement

lame...
post #4 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

what do you expect from a me too company? a me too statement

lame...

On the other hand they are currently trying not to be a me too company - and therefore just killed the Courier.
post #5 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacApfel View Post

On the other hand they are currently trying not to be a me too company - and therefore just killed the Courier.

i don't think you can kill something that doesn't exist, can you?

it would do us all a lot of good if they killed IE instead, which does exist, unfortunately
post #6 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

what do you expect from a me too company? a me too statement

lame...

I think that's a little unfair. Microsoft are starting to improve the way they do things. After years of having a self taught amateur as their head of software, now with Ray Ozzie, they are starting to do things more sensibly.

Whilst they are still way behind, Apple fans should not be so smug about Microsoft, with their money and good people leading them (excluding Balmer here), they can remain a force.
post #7 of 81
This is big. This means that all those businesses still holding on to flash now see that not only safari, firefox and chrome will heavily support the html5 platform. But also IE. Though the browser is absolutely wanting, it is unfortunately still used in most businesses and corporations. Therefore compatibility would have always been a concern on the internet. This also means the web developers only have to focus html 5 rather than html5 and flash.
Posted by the door post at the post office the post man posted his last post-millennial post card with a Penny Black postage stamp via the Royal Post.
Reply
Posted by the door post at the post office the post man posted his last post-millennial post card with a Penny Black postage stamp via the Royal Post.
Reply
post #8 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacApfel View Post

On the other hand they are currently trying not to be a me too company - and therefore just killed the Courier.

First of all you are assuming there was a Courier to kill, other than a rendered animation. You know I have a great startship animation I did, it's awesome and has photon cannons, a warp plasma drive that runs off of smiles and food dispensers that make a hot fudge brownie sunday that will make you blow a load! But eh, I think I'm going to just shelve it for now for future consideration.

Secondly they aren't being 'me too' they see that Jobs has started a battle and it makes sense for them to be on the side of open standards, while I don't believe they EVER would have made any of those statements without Apple firing the first (and second and third shots) they know it makes sense for them to stand on 'that side of the line in the sand', good will do the same soon most likely, not because of a 'me too' attitude but because it makes sense and is what is best for them.
post #9 of 81
Apple reported sold over 1 million IPADS>>>WOW!!
post #10 of 81
Looks like MS is slowly waking up to reality.
post #11 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockon52 View Post

Apple reported sold over 1 million IPADS>>>WOW!!

Is it just me or is this guy on every thread?


Anyway, as for IE9 and HTML5 all I can say is THANK GOD. Unfortunately there are still millions (yes millions) of people still using Satan (IE 6), so even when IE 9 is released it will be awhile before we can move away from Flash. But MS and Jobs are both right theoretically, HTML + JS + CSS3 does == the death of Flash. But it won't be until IE9 over takes the older IE versions in global market share.

The most exciting part about IE9 for me is the DOM level 3 support for JS, which is what really allows JavaScript to do anything even remotely like Flash and what most people mean when they say HTML5 is replacing Flash. For those of you who care about semantics, HTML5 is NOT replacing Flash, HTML/JS/AJAX/CSS is. And the most critical part of that puzzle is JS which has been a nightmare to develop with any kind of consistency across browsers until recently (webkit / html5) and is still being held up by IE8.

All these examples you see going around with fancy HTML5 + JS implementations are only running well on webkit browsers which basically means they are useless in the real world. IE9 however will finally bring MS into the present day and hopefully change all that. Now if we could only get the corporate world to abandon IE7 and XP we could really free the web.
post #12 of 81
This time MS gets it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockon52 View Post

Apple reported sold over 1 million IPADS>>>WOW!!

But I though no one wanted an over sized iPod Touch
post #13 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

This time MS gets it.



But I though no one wanted an over sized iPod Touch

The iPod Touch is just an undersized iPad!
post #14 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacShack View Post

This is big. This means that all those businesses still holding on to flash now see that not only safari, firefox and chrome will heavily support the html5 platform. But also IE. Though the browser is absolutely wanting, it is unfortunately still used in most businesses and corporations. Therefore compatibility would have always been a concern on the internet. This also means the web developers only have to focus html 5 rather than html5 and flash.

We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. While this is big (albeit old) news the biggest coup isn't against Flash as a whole as there are many things to be done and many years to go before HTML5 will even be a contender for the greater part of Flash, and it won't do it without JS and CSS in toe.

The two biggest gains here are the HTML5 video tag and H.264 support.

The first one attacks Flash as a video portal. HTML5 video will be the primary way we watch video in the future. Looking at the handsets and the current options Flash for video has already started to drop and will continue to shrink in favour of lighter and better technologies.

The latter attacks Firefox's silly play not to support H.264. When you have Google, MS and Apple all supporting it in their browsers; with YouTube, Vimeo, YouTube and Netflix all using it on their servers; and finally CPU and GPUs providing HW acceleration for H.264 and not Ogg you get a very clear picture of what video codec is going to dominate in the future. Mozilla and Opera can't fight all those companies.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #15 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Following Apple co-founder Steve Jobs' comments this week predicting Adobe Flash will fall to open standards like HTML5, the general manager of Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser agreed and said HTML5 is "the future of the Web."

I, for one, won't dis MS for this bit of news.

MS has a lot of clout. For them to make this statement about Flash right after Steve's dissertation...

... Flash is definitely dead.
na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #16 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

The iPod Touch is just an undersized iPad!

Do you still have the cartoon where a group decided to work day and night to catch on to the competition?!
post #17 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Do you still have the cartoon where a group decided to work day and night to catch on to the competition?!





post #18 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockon52 View Post

Apple reported sold over 1 million IPADS>>>WOW!!

Where does this number come from? If you cite something, provide the reference. As others pointed out here: just announcing isn't enough.
post #19 of 81
Good news from MS when it comes to supporting this standard.
post #20 of 81
Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.

But once the processor thermal wall was hit, it changed a lot of things. Multi-cores, hyper-threading, Grand Central and laptops stuck on dual cores, the new 13" MacBook Pro didn´t get a processor upgrade. Even the i5 and i7ś are much too hot in the new 15 and 17¨ MacBook Pro´s, Intel likely has gone as far as it can with laptop processors.

3D gaming has been leaving computers for consoles with more processors and elaborate cooling systems, that leaves laptops to become less powerful, smaller, thinner and lighter.

This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.
post #21 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Shantanu Narayen said that his company and Apple have different views of the world, and Adobe believes the future is multi-platform. He said Flash allows developers to write software and provide video in one format and have it accessible on a range of devices, while Apple's App Store is restricted to the iPhone OS ecosystem.

The fact that he has to argue something completely unrelated shows Adobe doesn't have a leg to stand on. Video delivered with HTML5 is most certainly not limited to the iPhone app store.
post #22 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I think that's a little unfair. Microsoft are starting to improve the way they do things. After years of having a self taught amateur as their head of software, now with Ray Ozzie, they are starting to do things more sensibly.

Whilst they are still way behind, Apple fans should not be so smug about Microsoft, with their money and good people leading them (excluding Balmer here), they can remain a force.

right

i'm also looking forward this improvement in doing things will help them produce a video of their new next great thing (such as the courier vaporware fiasco) but never anything real
post #23 of 81
Quote:

Yeah that one. Thanks
post #24 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Yeah that one. Thanks

I encourage its use.
post #25 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.

But once the processor thermal wall was hit, it changed a lot of things. Multi-cores, hyper-threading, Grand Central and laptops stuck on dual cores, the new 13" MacBook Pro didn´t get a processor upgrade. Even the i5 and i7ś are much too hot in the new 15 and 17¨ MacBook Pro´s, Intel likely has gone as far as it can with laptop processors.

3D gaming has been leaving computers for consoles with more processors and elaborate cooling systems, that leaves laptops to become less powerful, smaller, thinner and lighter.

This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.

At the moment, OS X and iPhone OS are totally incompatible. So I think what you envision will in fact not happen soon.
post #26 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.

Now it's not Adobe's fault but Apple's for using a 400MHz ARM11 in the original iPhone.

Quote:
MacBook Pro´s, Intel likely has gone as far as it can with laptop processors.

Um, you might to read Intel's roadmaps.

Quote:
This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.

Not even close!
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #27 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

We shouldn't get ahead of ourselves. While this is big (albeit old) news the biggest coup isn't against Flash as a whole as there are many things to be done and many years to go before HTML5 will even be a contender for the greater part of Flash, and it won't do it without JS and CSS in toe.

This is the most sensible comment i have read on these boards EVER.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The two biggest gains here are the HTML5 video tag and H.264 support.

I disagree, for most people it will be the new block level tags, such as <header> <footer> <article> etc. These tags will see far more use than the <video> tag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The first one attacks Flash as a video portal. HTML5 video will be the primary way we watch video in the future. Looking at the handsets and the current options Flash for video has already started to drop and will continue to shrink in favour of lighter and better technologies.

The problem here is that so far, handsets do not offer the functionality of a desktop/hard drive where a users can rip streaming video too. When or if mobile devices do offer that functionality the limits of HTML5 video as it currently stands will become apparent.

Currently with Flash we can use RMTP and prohibit piracy. As far as I have seen the HTML5 <video> tag does not support this kind of thing because it is literally just a tag in the page that anyone can view source and steal from. Although I'm sure there will be some kind of JS dependent work-around.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Ti...aging_Protocol
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/rtmp/

The other thing I think people forget is that Flex is currently WAY better than JS at handling external data / XML. What we REALLY want to happen is for JS Harmony (which MS helped to stall btw) to become a reality.

http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2936
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECMAScr...Script_Harmony
post #28 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacApfel View Post

At the moment, OS X and iPhone OS are totally incompatible. So I think what you envision will in fact not happen soon.

What the hell are you talking about "totally incompatible", damn and here I was thinking I was going to sync my phone on my mac or use any of the cloud sync apps between my mac and phone

... go away little troll, run free and play.
post #29 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamIIGS View Post

What the hell are you talking about "totally incompatible", damn and here I was thinking I was going to sync my phone on my mac or use any of the cloud sync apps between my mac and phone

... go away little troll, run free and play.

You are right, 'totally incompatible' was a bad description of what I meant. I also sync my Macs with my iPhone and iTouch. What I mean is that the OS X and iPhone OS deliver quite different user experiences and I don't see how you can easily converge both, without causing problems for the average user (not those present here for example).

But all these intense emotions ... maybe run a bit before replying.
post #30 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacApfel View Post

Where does this number come from? If you cite something, provide the reference. As others pointed out here: just announcing isn't enough.

I don't know that Apple has announced the 1 million figure, but they announced that 500,000 sold in the first week. Since that ended 20 days ago, 1 million isn't an unreasonable guess. And with the 3G models shipping today, I wouldn't be surprised if the number is more like 1.5 to 2 M in the first month (5 more days to go).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

Like I said before, Flash was developed in the anticipation that hardware would get faster over time, thus enabling the web to have more features.

That's a terrible design strategy. Software ALWAYS bloats at least as fast as hardware speeds up. And the fact that Flash doesn't take advantage of multiple processors (which will likely be the main driving force for hardware improvement in coming years) makes it even harder.

As evidence? My Mac IIsi (20 MHz PPC) opened apps in a few seconds and did most tasks with little or no significant delay. My iMac (2,800 MHz with 2 processors and 100 times the RAM and dramatically faster GPU) also opens apps in a few seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpotOn View Post

This generation of MacBook Pro´s might be the last, Apple might introduce some sort of iPad/MacBook Air combination device with the lower powered A4 processors.

That is, of course, nonsense. People use MacBook Pros for things like video and photo editing and the A4 just isn't up to it. It's not going to happen for many years - if ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by doyourownthing View Post

what do you expect from a me too company? a me too statement..

Sure, but I can't wait for the 'me too' statement from Adobe:
"All those things we said about Apple apply to Microsoft too. Neener, neener"
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #31 of 81
I have blocked flash from my computers at home. Not going to miss it.
Dancers are the Athletes of God - Albert Einstein
http://www.iPhoneSalsa.com

Proud owner of iMac, Macbook Pro, iPhone, Time Capsule
Reply
Dancers are the Athletes of God - Albert Einstein
http://www.iPhoneSalsa.com

Proud owner of iMac, Macbook Pro, iPhone, Time Capsule
Reply
post #32 of 81
The only part of HTML5 that I care about is the canvas tag. Sure most of the Flash on the web is for video and it works really well for that. The video controls and the overlays are more advanced than HTML5 implementations, but it is the canvas tag that holds the key to replacing Flash. Notice how Hachamovitch conveniently omitted commenting on IE9 support for canvas tag. From what I have read, it won't be there. And duh, Flash has some issues, at least according to the makers of Silverlight.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #33 of 81
Hey Adobe, how do you like them apples?

</pun>
post #34 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The only part of HTML5 that I care about is the canvas tag. Sure most of the Flash on the web is for video and it works really well for that. The video controls and the overlays are more advanced than HTML5 implementations, but it is the canvas tag that holds the key to replacing Flash. Notice how Hachamovitch conveniently omitted commenting on IE9 support for canvas tag. From what I have read, it won't be there. And duh, Flash has some issues, at least according to the makers of Silverlight.

Good point, although the Canvas tag is only the place not the method. What we REALLY need is a great JS library to handle it, but there are some currently blossoming options out there such as JQuery.

Here is an interesting question to pose to MS "IF you are so on board with HTML5 as the future, are you abandoning Silverlight?"
post #35 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Later Thursday, Adobe's CEO fired back, suggesting that most crashes of Flash in OS X are not related to his software, but instead are the fault of Apple's operating system.

Bullshit. Complete and utter bullshit. This guy is clueless, if he would talk to his own employees he would know how poorly Flash runs on Mac OSX (and Linux).

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

Reply

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

Reply
post #36 of 81
Well we all knew Microsoft would make this decision for H.264 instead of Ogg Theora. The last thing Microsoft wants is an open-source codec to take over the web. Especially since the open source community was trying to put Ogg Theora support into IE through a plugin
post #37 of 81
This is not good. I'm concerned about the health of a specific subset of my fellow humans. This statement from Microsoft could create major cognitive dissonance for people who are fanboys of Microsoft and fanboys of Adobe. This could lead to a split brain process and temporary (or longer) madness.
post #38 of 81
Having a closed ecosystem is not an issue if an amusement park lives within it.
post #39 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by alkrantz View Post

Good point, although the Canvas tag is only the place not the method. What we REALLY need is a great JS library to handle it, but there are some currently blossoming options out there such as JQuery.

Here is an interesting question to pose to MS "IF you are so on board with HTML5 as the future, are you abandoning Silverlight?"

Another JS library is only going to further muddy the waters. We need a GUI based authoring environment so we have timeline based keyframes and tweening. HTML5 will not support shape tweening either. Maybe some crude hackish SVG method but it has a long way to go to reach the sophistication of Flash, especially in the creation tools area.

Flash is very object oriented in terms of loading objects inside of other objects and communicating between them. As opposed to canvas code which has to coexist with all the other unrelated JS on the page. With all the animations and interactivity that I would like to mash together, it gets really difficult to keep those complex interactions organized because there are no RAD tools to do it with.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #40 of 81
Now we all doomed, now that MS is become "standardized"
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Head of Microsoft's Internet Explorer says HTML5 is the 'future'