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Adobe to respond to Apple by giving employees Android phones with Flash

post #1 of 136
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Following Apple CEO Steve Jobs' public attack on Flash this week, Adobe is now reportedly planning to give its employees Android phones running Flash.

Three sources familiar with Adobe's plans told CNet that Adobe plans to give its employees mobile phones powered by Google's Android mobile operating system, and running a new mobile version of Flash created for the platform. Adobe reportedly has not yet decided which Android phone it will give its employees, though "various HTC phones and the Nexus One" were specifically mentioned.

"In the time-honored technology industry practice of 'dog-fooding' one's own products, Adobe and Google want to encourage employees to spend as much time using Android and the Flash Player 10.1 as possible," authors Tom Krazit and Stephen Shankland wrote.

They added: "It's also not clear if this will be a perk just for developers or for the entire company: Adobe had about 8,600 employees worldwide at the end of last November."

Adobe plans to formally introduce Flash 10.1 for Android at Google's I/O conference in May. Google also reportedly has plans to give every attendee either a Motorola Droid or a Nexus One, two high-profile handsets running Android.

The company's alleged plans were revealed just days after Apple's Jobs slammed Adobe Flash in a public letter, saying that the Web format is unfit for the modern era. Flash was created for PCs with mice and keyboards, Jobs argued, but it is not fit for use on devices in the "mobile era." Apple has not allowed Flash onto its iPhone OS, which powers the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad.

After Jobs' comments were published on Thursday, Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen fired back and dismissed the Apple co-founder's claims that Flash is the source of most crashes in Mac OS X. Narayen said Jobs' comments were a "smokescreen," and some of his claims, such as Flash resulting in poorer battery life of mobile devices, were "patently false."
post #2 of 136
Umm why does this help at all?
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post #3 of 136
OMG here we go again...

THIS IS SPARTA!!!
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post #4 of 136
so they admit they don't have flash available for phones yet, just like Steve said?
post #5 of 136
Sucks to be an Adobe employee about now. Hopefully they're not forced to actually *use* the Android phone.
post #6 of 136
Next will be Shantanu Narayen snatching iPhones from Adobe staff and stomping on them.
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
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post #7 of 136
Makes sense. Adobe wants to develop a mobile version of flash and so needs to have a mobile phone that they can test it on. At this point only Android allows them to do so. Android will make or break mobile flash, and is adobe's last chance to get it right.
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post #8 of 136
Should be lots of good Android deals on ebay coming up.
post #9 of 136
Why would an Adobe employee tell its own employer how much their products stinks (if it does)?
post #10 of 136
I guess they'll need a second phone... since the first one's battery life will be so crappy.

Wonder if they will be allowed to keep their iPhones?
post #11 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

Makes sense. Adobe wants to develop a mobile version of flash and so needs to have a mobile phone that they can test it on. At this point only Android allows them to do so. Android will make or break mobile flash, and is adobe's last chance to get it right.

Actually at this point, Flash is not even available for Android.
post #12 of 136
"Adobe reportedly has not yet decided with Android phone" Which??
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post #13 of 136
Hahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!! That's hilarious.
post #14 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Following Apple CEO Steve Jobs' public attack on Flash this week, Adobe is now reportedly planning to give its employees Android phones running Flash. ...

This is just getting petty now.
post #15 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 cents View Post

Should be lots of good Android deals on ebay coming up.

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post #16 of 136
Actually, that's a pretty good idea. What better way to subversively show their employees how much they need to improve their products than by forcing them to actually use them.
post #17 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriamjh View Post

Why would an Adobe employee tell its own employer how much their products stinks (if it does)?

Because that would be the mark of a good employee.

"I want people to tell me the truth, even if I fire them."

-One of the MGMers
post #18 of 136
Some notes:
  • If Adobe believes that Flash is such a good piece of software, why don't they try making it into a standalone OS that runs a mobile phone! Surely that would solve this problem
  • Follow on: If this cross platform idea is that good, then why bother with developing Android or Windows Mobile or iPhone OS? Just make something that runs Flash and give it to people to use

I think Adobe should just stick with what it can do best, or used to be good at . Producing authoring software, leave the rest to the technomages
post #19 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 cents View Post

should be lots of good android deals on ebay coming up.

lol!!

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post #20 of 136
Why not install flash on an actual iPhone, even if it is jailbroken?

Apple is not against Flash (sites) on the iPhone (if you read Jobs post on Apple website), Jobs wrote Apple did not hold its breath.

I am just growing a resentment about this Adobe's Flash vs Apple's iPhone brouhaha. And you see News agencies showing their ignorance and impartiality, BBC is an example of impartiality, but it is no a surprise.
post #21 of 136
Adobe is in denial of flash being on it's last leg and that will end up hurting Adobe and mobile device makers and users. All this so that Adobe can recoup their Macromedia purchase price?

They are wasting their time and money on FLASH when they should let the current tools run their course and focus on new HTML5 tools.

Steve's Open letter could not be more clear. Any company that supports using flash on their mobile device at this point shows just how much thoughtful care goes into the design of their products.

We are already seeing massive migration to HTML5 and when IE9 comes out with html5 support, the game will be over.


Time will tell.
post #22 of 136
Can I safely say that some people will be glad to get a Flash blocker for Android?
post #23 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Adobe is now reportedly planning to give its employees Android phones running Flash...Adobe reportedly has not yet decided which Android phone it will give its employees, though "various HTC phones and the Nexus One" were specifically mentioned.

Why doesn't it just give them one of the existing phones on the market that run flash?

Oh. Never mind.
post #24 of 136
This story is the equivalent of Adobe saying "Put up your dukes!" as Apple laughs and walks away.
post #25 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 cents View Post

Should be lots of good Android deals on ebay coming up.

lol! You got that right on!
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post #26 of 136
See the Android phones have not been picked yet, do not have a version of Flash and are not being subsidized. They are being given away. Expect they will pick a model with a replaceable battery and give away spare batteries and chargers as well.
Glad to see they are going for a full test but wondering how unbiased the results will be.
post #27 of 136
Does this sound like a playground fight over toys?

Adobe sound like the kid that nobody wants to play with, because they don't play nice, throwing a fit.

Sure the market has not moved away from Flash yet, but the is the future. Adobe doesn't want the future to come and won't do what it takes to compete in the future. They are link the content providers that want things the way they always where, their way.

Steve gave them a good bone at the end of his note. Make Flash and/or Dreamweaver output HTML5. I know that would mean they actually need to work on a product rather than just maintaining it, but it would pay off. Same with Flash output to an Xcode Project rather than a lame runtime.
post #28 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBug View Post

Umm why does this help at all?

It will improve the quality of users of both Android and iPhone OS.
post #29 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

Makes sense. Adobe wants to develop a mobile version of flash and so needs to have a mobile phone that they can test it on. At this point only Android allows them to do so. Android will make or break mobile flash, and is adobe's last chance to get it right.

Ha!

Android break itself (and it currently is with the configuration fragmentation, and software/security issues). Adobe betting the farm on a small player (Android) in the smartphone market place isn't really an overly wise move. Good job they are counting on Symbian too (although that's going down slowly).

Basically, you're saying goodbye to Flash for Mobiles. Adobe is already 1-1.5 years late on their original promise for mobile flash, and it is fast become irrelevant, if that isn't really already the case.
post #30 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

Adobe is in denial of flash being on it's last leg and that will end up hurting Adobe and mobile device makers and users. All this so that Adobe can recoup their Macromedia purchase price?

They are wasting their time and money on FLASH when they should let the current tools run their course and focus on new HTML5 tools.

Steve's Open letter could not be more clear. Any company that supports using flash on their mobile device at this point shows just how much thoughtful care goes into the design of their products.

We are already seeing massive migration to HTML5 and when IE9 comes out with html5 support, the game will be over.


Time will tell.

Adobe is still in debt after acquisition of Macromedia (flash it is) so that is probably the reason not give the flash up, investors wouldn't be happy to know that such a large investment was a huge waste of money.

P.S. i a couple of years Adobe investors will not be happy when flash is dead and the market for html5 tools is not Adobe's.
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post #31 of 136
This is so stupid. Even if your Adobe gives out the phone to all their employees < 9K, it isn't going to make any difference. Instead of all this negative publicity, why don't they divert their attention to fixing Flash, if that is their bread-and-butter. I think Adobe is just choking their own neck. The popularity of iPhone and iPad will make the content provider move over to updated technology. As we know Microsoft is also trying to push their Silverlight technology to compete with Flash, but I think that one will also go down, as I hear it also has similar issues.
post #32 of 136
The dogfooding will be intended to ease fears that Flash isn't (yet) ready for mobile phones. After all, what could be more embarrassing than a big chunk of your employees genuinely believing that it performs poorly, crashes all the time, is insecure? So they must be extremely confident that it is none of those things... or at least that will be the intended perception.

But in reality, people know not to look a gift horse in the mouth, and know that their employment could be in jeopardy if they grumble to external parties, and maybe even (completely against the spirit of dogfooding) internal ones. So it's one of those things that the company can, admittedly at some expense (imagine for a moment that $100 of the amount you paid for Adobe CS was going to pay for a smartphone for one of their employees), "just do" without having to worry much about negative consequences. Adobe must have many employees with Macs at least for the purpose of developing their own software... and yet, on a Mac, Flash is undoubtedly a CPU hog and is at the centre of many crashes, so those Adobe employees must be quietly accepting that rather than complaining about it.

I actually would like it if Adobe managed to get Flash 10.1 behaving well on mobile phones, because if they can get the full feature set performing well with a couple of hundred MB of RAM on a few-hundred-megahertz CPU throttled to half its clock rate to save power, then they can get the desktop versions to perform excellently, and then Flash would become a non-issue. I just have trouble believing that could be true. IMO the Flash support for Mac and Linux is purely so that they can claim that the full feature set is on all platforms, without any interest in it running well: in effect they are bundling Mac users with the Windows users they are already selling to Flash developers to sell to their clients. As long as mobile internet use isn't a significant part of the market, there's just no strong motivation for Adobe to make a Flash for it that is any more than "acceptable". For the majority part of the market, it's a bit different, as clients do not like content that performs poorly on their own machines.

I'd like to add another interesting analogy: Microsoft's Mac software. Who remembers when MSIE 5.x was the standard web browser for the Mac? Fun times. MSIE5 Mac came out in 2000; MSIE6 (Windows) in 2001; Safari came along in 2003. It was abundantly clear that IE5/Mac was not remotely comparable to IE6/Win, and I seem to recall it was a far cry from even IE5/Win. So Microsoft put all that effort into making an MSIE for the Mac, but they just weren't interested in making it all that good, and that's completely understandable because it was a freebie whose only purpose could be to slightly bolster MSIE's market share. Compare that to MS Office for the Mac which (I'm told) is actually rather good. The key difference is that Mac users pay for that directly.

In short: nobody cares about minority users who are unhappy with their freebies. All the manufacturer cares about is that they are users and so contribute to their "market share". I expect that to hold true of mobile Flash 10.1, but I hope that it doesn't.
post #33 of 136
Obviously lots of beta testers needed.
post #34 of 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

so they admit they don't have flash available for phones yet, just like Steve said?


Admit? The current status is well known and in the news.
post #35 of 136
Perhaps the one good outcome of this will be at all of Adobe will now collectively see what a resource- and battery-hogging piece of software this is on mobile phones. And, how it works (or does not) on a touch screen. Many of them will have used an iPhone before, and will be able to clearly see points of parity and difference.

As a result, who knows, they might finally come up with something that works. Or they'll finally give up, and the CEO will lose all credibility.
post #36 of 136
Looks like some one in Adobe have figure out a clever way to push their face-saving agenda onto their employees by providing the "oppotunity" to work 24 hours shifts.
post #37 of 136
Hey I found this Android phone running Flash in a bar. Anyone want to buy it?
EDIT: I seldom post without an edit.
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post #38 of 136
What isn't reported is that Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen is also supplying tricycles fitted with car batteries and dynamos so his employees can get a working days usage out of the Android.
post #39 of 136
Time for the Board to tell Shantanu to take a hike. Adobe will soon be the laughjng stock of the software segment. Shantanu has been busy shifting jobs to India while strangling the creative side of Adobe. What we need is for the founders to come back or at least be more vocal.
post #40 of 136
I guess I kind of understand showing pride in your company, but this kind of immature tribishness is kind of ridiculous.
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