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DOW Stock Market Tanks...

post #1 of 50
Thread Starter 
Down 900 and falling! Black Thursday all over... Uh oh... Doesn't look good for Hope & Change...



Dow Falls 800 Amid Europe Lending Worries
Published: Thursday, 6 May 2010 | 2:46 PM ET
By: Cindy Perman, JeeYeon Park
http://www.cnbc.com/id/36988229
The stock selloff accelerated Thursday amid buzz in the market that European banks have halted lending.
post #2 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Down 900 and falling! Black Thursday all over... Uh oh... Doesn't look good for Hope & Change..

Wow. Fan... meet shyte.

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post #3 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Down 900 and falling! Black Thursday all over... Uh oh... Doesn't look good for Hope & Change...

Yes.

As the Greek treasury minister, Barack Obama must take responsibility for this crisis that happened in Europe and commenced before he was even elected.
post #4 of 50
There are multiple issues at play here, not the least of which is the phony "recovery" in the U.S.

I suspect that 900 drop (but recovery) was a warning sign. A big one.

But the Greek debt thing is a much bigger issue than the average man on the street probably realizes. If (when?) they default there is expected to be a fairly rapid domino-effect hitting the rest of the "PIGS" (as some refer to them) countries: Portugal, Italy and Spain.

And then it could spread.

The U.S. will certainly try to step in bail out if necessary, but as we all know, we don't have any money left and they won't be able to print their way out of this one.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #5 of 50
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

The U.S. will certainly try to step in bail out if necessary, but as we all know, we don't have any money left and they won't be able to print their way out of this one.

The US has the largest share of commitment in the International Monetary Fund (IMF) but there are real economists who say that we can't honor these commitments nor should we - why should the US bear this burden for Europe within the IMF? Moreover, the sinking of the USS Greece economy is just a preview of our own USS America crash against that economic iceberg... will Americans be rallying in the streets soon like the Greeks? Probably. The Stock Market sent a powerful signal today... best start work on that backyard shelter soon and stock up on Mars bars and Budweiser... going to be a long depression methinks!
post #6 of 50
Decline in world markets prompts fears of Greek 'contagion effect'

Quote:
It is called a "contagion effect," an economist's metaphor for the rapid and hard-to-predict spread of financial crisis, driven by the fragility of investors' perceptions. They are a function of vicious cycles in which confidence in a country's ability to repay its debts falls, driving up the country's borrowing rates and thus making it all the harder for the nation to handle its debts.

Quote:
European stock markets fell, with the British market off 1.5 percent, France down 2.2 percent, Spain down 3 percent and Italy off 4.3 percent. The Spanish stock market is now down 11 percent since Monday.

Analysts had hoped that the ECB might use its essentially limitless ability to create money to stanch the crisis, though doing so could come at the cost of the long-term credibility of the central bank as an inflation-fighting central bank that does not yield to politics.


Stocks tumble anew on concerns Greek debt problems will spread through Europe,to the US

Quote:
The Dow lost almost 1,000 points before recovering to a loss of 505 as traders watched protests in the streets of Athens on TV. Protestors raged against austerity measures passed by the Greek parliament. But traders were not comforted by the fact that Greece seemed to be working towards a resolution of its debt problems. Instead, they focused on the possibility that other European countries would also run into trouble, and that the damage to their economies could spread to the U.S.

And here's the funny part:

Quote:
Still, emotions were running high. Down 998.50 points in mid-afternoon, the Dow recovered to a loss of 505. Meanwhile, interest rates on Treasurys soared as traders sought the safety of U.S. government debt. The yield on the benchmark 10-year note, which moves oppoosite its price, fell to 3.37 percent from late Wednesday's 3.54 percent.

Any port in a storm I guess.

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post #7 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Yes.

As the Greek treasury minister, Barack Obama must take responsibility for this crisis that happened in Europe and commenced before he was even elected.

Right on! I knew someone on the right would be licking their chops at this misfortune.

This doesn't matter as long as the conservatives that were in power when this downturn started get back in control to do more damage.

Right.

Wow is right.
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post #8 of 50
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNe...6455ZG20100506
Quote:
Stock plunge raises alarm on algo trading

(Reuters) - A spine-chilling slide of nearly 1,000 points in the Dow Jones Industrial Average, its biggest intraday points drop ever, led to heightened calls for a crackdown on computer-driven high-frequency trading.

The slide, which in one 10-minute stretch knocked the index down nearly 700 points, may have been triggered by a trading error. Major stock indexes eventually recovered from their 9 percent drops to close down a little more than 3 percent.

But the follow-through selling that pushed stocks of some highly regarded companies into tailspins exacerbated concerns that regulators can quickly lose control of the markets in a world of algorithmic trading.

"The potential for giant high-speed computers to generate false trades and create market chaos reared its head again today," Senator Edward Kaufman said in a statement.

"The battle of the algorithms -- not understood by nor even remotely transparent to the Securities and Exchange Commission -- simply must be carefully reviewed and placed within a meaningful regulatory framework soon."



http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6456QB20100507
Quote:
Nasdaq to cancel trades

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Nasdaq Operations said it will cancel all trades executed between 2:40 p.m. to 3 p.m. showing a rise or fall of more than 60 percent from the last trade in that security at 2:40 p.m or immediately prior.
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post #9 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Right on! I knew someone on the right would be licking their chops at this misfortune.

It is interesting that in your view of the world, noticing and reporting are the same as "licking their chops." Odd that.

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post #10 of 50
Quote:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Nasdaq Operations said it will cancel all trades executed between 2:40 p.m. to 3 p.m. showing a rise or fall of more than 60 percent from the last trade in that security at 2:40 p.m or immediately prior.

Wow. That's interesting. Not sure how they can do that. Have they ever done that before?

I know they have halted trading in certain circumstances and even turned off the computer auto-trigger trades in some cases. But this seems unusual to me. Anyone know if it has ever been done? If not why this time?

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post #11 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It is interesting that in your view of the world, noticing and reporting are the same as "licking their chops." Odd that.

OP of thread (emphasis added):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camp David View Post

Down 900 and falling! Black Thursday all over... Uh oh... Doesn't look good for Hope & Change...

Looks pretty chops-lickin' to me....
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post #12 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

OP of thread (emphasis added):



Looks pretty chops-lickin' to me....

I suppose. Looks more like an observation to me. But to-mate-o/to-maht-o I guess.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #13 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Right on! I knew someone on the right would be licking their chops at this misfortune.

This doesn't matter as long as the conservatives that were in power when this downturn started get back in control to do more damage.

Right.

Wow is right.

Yea 'cause the left was never cheering for US defeat in Iraq.
post #14 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

There are multiple issues at play here, not the least of which is the phony "recovery" in the U.S.

I suspect that 900 drop (but recovery) was a warning sign. A big one.

But the Greek debt thing is a much bigger issue than the average man on the street probably realizes. If (when?) they default there is expected to be a fairly rapid domino-effect hitting the rest of the "PIGS" (as some refer to them) countries: Portugal, Italy and Spain.

And then it could spread.

The U.S. will certainly try to step in bail out if necessary, but as we all know, we don't have any money left and they won't be able to print their way out of this one.

Actually it is PIIGS. Not to be a picky butt, however Ireland is in there as well as the second 'I'.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #15 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Yea 'cause the left was never cheering for US defeat in Iraq.

Did you ever hear of me doing that?

Personally I've never read or known of anyone who did.

We just knew how stupid the invasion was.

We just knew it was started for reasons that didn't exist.

We just knew what a colossal waste of time and resources it was going to be.

Why would we want it to fail? That would mean we were right about how bad a president Bush was. And I don't know about you Floorjack but I don't know why anyone would wish their leader was a loser.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #16 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Yea 'cause the left was never cheering for US defeat in Iraq.

For example.
post #17 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

...the left was never cheering for US defeat in Iraq...

Good point. You're exactly right. Good observation.
post #18 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Good point. You're exactly right. Good observation.

I dunno...remember "If you're not with us you're against us"?

To a Winger not cheering for victory = cheering for defeat.
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #19 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

I dunno...remember "If you're not with us you're against us"?

To a Winger not cheering for victory = cheering for defeat.

It has seemed that, for you, the generic term "Winger" is specifically referring to Right Winger but I think it would be fair to point out that there seem to be some Left Wingers for whom observing the reality of the economy and not taking the administration's rhetoric and mere good intentions on the economy without question = cheering for economic failure.

There also seems to have been (more subtle mind you) questioning of true Americanism and true patriotism of those not in agreement with the current administration's approaches, policies and actions. Similar to the "If you're not with us you're against us" slogan.

There's a bit of that crap going on both sides.

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post #20 of 50
Now back to the Dow. Today should be interesting.

Questions:

- Was this just a computer glitch or human error as is now being suggested? Nothing to do with the fears about Greece and Europe? Maybe. Sounds a tad "these aren't the droids you're looking for"-ish to me.

- Is there any precedent for the stock exchange canceling trades as they are doing here? If not, why now? Because it was truly only a computer glitch?

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post #21 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

It has seemed that, for you, the generic term "Winger" is specifically referring to Right Winger but I think it would be fair to point out that there seem to be some Left Wingers for whom observing the reality of the economy and not taking the administration's rhetoric and mere good intentions on the economy without question = cheering for economic failure.

There also seems to have been (more subtle mind you) questioning of true Americanism and true patriotism of those not in agreement with the current administration's approaches, policies and actions. Similar to the "If you're not with us you're against us" slogan.

There's a bit of that crap going on both sides.

True....I do tend to use it in that sense universally.

And your points are well made, I agree...having said that though I do think that people should take others at face value on these forums (I don't mean you here) and not impute things to them other than that which they have said: claiming people 'cheer' when no such action is in evidence is a classic example.

Personally I am more than capable of cheering for UK defeat in Iraq and elsewhere (I am not American so I have no concerns there..) and if I want to I will say so. Ditto with economic collapse which - imo - may be the only way out of the mess in the long term as the system does not work and patching it up will not fix it.

If we can have a debate about WHY someone may think like this then all well and good but just accusing them as a pejorative doesn't cut it imo.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #22 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

And your points are well made, I agree...having said that though I do think that people should take others at face value on these forums (I don't mean you here) and not impute things to them other than that which they have said: claiming people 'cheer' when no such action is in evidence is a classic example.

I agree. I have been on the receiving end of being lumped in with other vague, general group of people who have views that I actually don't agree with, even though some of my views do happen to align. I hope I have avoided doing the same to others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Personally I am more than capable of cheering for UK defeat in Iraq and elsewhere (I am not American so I have no concerns there..) and if I want to I will say so. Ditto with economic collapse which - imo - may be the only way out of the mess in the long term as the system does not work and patching it up will not fix it.

I don't cheer or hope for an economic collapse, but I've read and studied enough to be highly skeptical of the long-term effectiveness of the tactics being used to induce "recovery" such that I actually expect them to make things worse in the longer term. It's not that I want it, it's merely that I expect it. And I have been accused by at least one forum member here of wishing or hoping for an economic collapse because it is Barack Obama. It's a fallacious accusation that gets rather tiresome.

Oh well...the Dow. Are we actually on the verge of a collapse? We might be. The PIIGS (thanks for correcting me trumptman) scare the crap out of me. Because it could just be the spark not the whole fire.

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post #23 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Oh well...the Dow. Are we actually on the verge of a collapse? We might be. The PIIGS (thanks for correcting me trumptman) scare the crap out of me. Because it could just be the spark not the whole fire.

I wouldn't worry....there is an element of scaremongering. I live in Spain and I think there is more to it than meets the eye. Or less.

Firstly; there is, or has been, an economic crisis which is a cyclic thing and which has been exacerbated by the irresponsible (ie rampant greed) practices of the lending banks.

Second; places like Greece and Spain (and Portugal and Italy say) are more vulnerable because their economies are based on areas which are highly vulnerable: tourism, construction etc.

Also the work ethic here is well...it's not the US put it that way. Leaves the country wide open to failure in times like this.

Having said all that I don't think that economies like Germany and France can allow the Euro to fail (and that is what we are talking about in the long term) so there is a point which it is impossible to fall below.

Could be a lot of pain on the way down though.

I have other ideas about this but will not voice them as the 'tin hat' crowd will emerge from the shadows fingers all aquiver... suffice to say I think that the long term end-game is to have a 'United States of Europe' and perhaps an American equivalent embracing Canada and Mexico.

Bailing out Greece (and Spain if necessary) will come at the cost of signing up to this which is driven by Germany/France. Perhaps the 'crisis' is to a certain extent manufactured for this purpose.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #24 of 50
I've been trying to work up a post and before that a whole thread on the things now being noted within the stock market. It really is way to hard to boil down though to something digestable for forum discussion. You have to get into Austrian school versus Keynesian school of economics, demographic timebombs in most Western countries, the soverign debt crisis, crony capitalism, central banks and their collusion with the very governments they are supposed to be independent from, government sponsored enterprises, and then.... well then you are about half way into it.

The short version is, ultimately, you can't get something for nothing and there is a reason people keep picking up Atlas Shrugged. The looters are fully willing to follow their lies to the end of the line.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #25 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

there is a reason people keep picking up Atlas Shrugged.

They're morons with no idea of literature?
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #26 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The short version is, ultimately, you can't get something for nothing

Or TANSTAAFL.

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post #27 of 50
Greek protesters: Ready to face reality about the debt crisis?

There are some wise words in there for the U.S. too.

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post #28 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerLurker View Post

OP of thread (emphasis added):



Looks pretty chops-lickin' to me....

Actually I was quoting SDW ( licking your chops ) from a few years ago when I saw how slow unemployment was to come back during the last recession he acussed me of that. Which is really stupid. Bad times affect us all except of course for the very rich. But for some parties are more important than people suffering. MJ couldn't know about the quote unless of course he's here under a new name.

And yes it does look pretty chop lickin'.
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post #29 of 50

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #30 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I've been trying to work up a post and before that a whole thread on the things now being noted within the stock market. It really is way to hard to boil down though to something digestable for forum discussion. You have to get into Austrian school versus Keynesian school of economics, demographic timebombs in most Western countries, the soverign debt crisis, crony capitalism, central banks and their collusion with the very governments they are supposed to be independent from, government sponsored enterprises, and then.... well then you are about half way into it.

The short version is, ultimately, you can't get something for nothing and there is a reason people keep picking up Atlas Shrugged. The looters are fully willing to follow their lies to the end of the line.

Your transition from a Bush defender to flavor of the month libertarian-of-convenience has been a strange thing for me to witness. I guess it could happen...

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post #31 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Your transition from a Bush defender to flavor of the month libertarian-of-convenience has been a strange thing for me to witness. I guess it could happen...

Flavor of the month is right.
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post #32 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Your transition from a Bush defender to flavor of the month libertarian-of-convenience has been a strange thing for me to witness. I guess it could happen...

People change - this crisis has turned me from a Libertarian into a Democrat. At least I am a Democrat as long as the Democrats are willing to kick the bankers in the teeth.

The bankers need to be regulated until they bleed, and the regulators need to be audited regularly - and when we discover a "captured regulator", we need to put those people in jail. We need to learn the same lessons that we learned after the great depression.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #33 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

and the regulators need to be audited regularly - and when we discover a "captured regulator", we need to put those people in jail.

Good luck with that.

Joke: How do you know when a regulator is captured? (see below)

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

We need to learn the same lessons that we learned after the great depression.

But apparently we (err...they) haven't given the economic policy prescriptions of the current and previous administrations.


Punchline: They are a regulator.

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post #34 of 50
Things seemed to work pretty well in the banking system for 40 or 50 years after the great depression, it was only the deregulation in the 1980s that started the periodic instability.

You tell a regulator is captured by looking at banking metrics, by monitoring email traffic, and by making it very easy to be a whistleblower.
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post #35 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Things seemed to work pretty well in the banking system for 40 or 50 years after the great depression, it was only the deregulation in the 1980s that started the periodic instability.

I suspect you don't have a full comprehension of the facts here. I don't say this to be insulting. It's just that the interrelated factors are much more complicated this. To say that the banking and finance industries have be deregulated in any meaningful and substantive way is something the betrays the reality. These are massively regulated industries. One can easily argue that the banking industry is essentially government sanctioned cartel. It is not free-market or deregulated in an real sense of those terms. This focus on deregulation also ignores the massive amount of (causal) influence that the Fed has had in the economic instability to which you refer. The Fed is the core problem here, but the mystery of the Fed to so many prevents much understanding of what it does and what it is. Eyes begin to glaze when you try to explain it, even in simple terms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

You tell a regulator is captured by looking at banking metrics, by monitoring email traffic, and by making it very easy to be a whistleblower.

First, it was a joke. Second, not that much of a joke. I doubt seriously you can determine regulatory capture in such a clear and scientific/mathematical fashion. It happens much more subtly than most can detect. As far as the whistleblower, you have to assume that it is worth more to be a whistleblower than a "captured regulator" and also that someone really wants to blow the whistle.

I quite seriously doubt that you could look at any regulatory agency in the federal, state or local governments without finding a string influence (if not actual control) by those who are being regulated. The actual (vs. the stated) purpose of the regulatory apparatus is to protect incumbent industry players, primarily from competition.

The problem is the system more than it is the individuals. Regulatory capture arises out of a few factors but chief among them are the fact that the benefits are concentrated while the costs are widely dispersed. That, in a nutshell, summarizes many of the core problems with government.

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post #36 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Good point. You're exactly right. Good observation.

I guess there aren't any quotes we could dig up about the Iraq surge right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Now back to the Dow. Today should be interesting.

Questions:

- Was this just a computer glitch or human error as is now being suggested? Nothing to do with the fears about Greece and Europe? Maybe. Sounds a tad "these aren't the droids you're looking for"-ish to me.

- Is there any precedent for the stock exchange canceling trades as they are doing here? If not, why now? Because it was truly only a computer glitch?

I suspect that if people really dig down into this, it will be discovered that certain people have found a way to manipulate the fact that so much trading is done with computers following preset criteria and they will be found to be taking advantage of that fact. It won't be found to be technically illegal, just unethical bu then again we can argue about how ethical it is to have computers making these decisions day in and out in place of people with brains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Your transition from a Bush defender to flavor of the month libertarian-of-convenience has been a strange thing for me to witness. I guess it could happen...

I'm sure if the search function were working for the board, you'd find I haven't changed at all. The same issues exist but simply become more strident when the numbers around them change. Did I complain about Bush deficit spending $250 billion a year? I did. Did I complain about Pax Americana back then? Yes. Did I note the country ought to endorse fair trade instead of free trade, absolutely. You have all these factors either grow or the man claiming to fix them double down on the bad and worsen them, and of course the yelling is going to get louder. I've always called myself a Paleo-conservative though and nothing has changed about that.

More interesting is how people change their perceptions of others when the outside circumstances have changed. I think that is what has happened here for you. Again things are hard to find due to the forums changing and the search feature essentually being broken. I did a quick search via Google though and found this post started by me in 2003 called Fair Trade. Look at it and tell me what has changed in seven years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

People change - this crisis has turned me from a Libertarian into a Democrat. At least I am a Democrat as long as the Democrats are willing to kick the bankers in the teeth.

The bankers need to be regulated until they bleed, and the regulators need to be audited regularly - and when we discover a "captured regulator", we need to put those people in jail. We need to learn the same lessons that we learned after the great depression.

The biggest, most unregulated, and unaudited back out there is the Federal Reserve. It is the puppet master and until something is done about it, nothing can nor should be done about the others.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #37 of 50
MJ - here are the things that were not regulated, that should have been:

Credit default swaps - we have a long history of regulating insurance companies in a way that makes sure that they have enough capital on hand to pay off insurance claims. If they had done this with credit default swaps (in the same way as they do for home insurance) AIG would not have blown up.

Loans - there needed to be some checks in place to make sure that banks were not committing fraud on loan originations. You can't just loan somebody money with fraudulent income, then sell the loan to another bank, without paying some kind of price. I have not heard of anyone being put in jail for these transactions.

Investment bank leverage ratios - 100-1 is a joke, and it was explicitly allowed by the SEC after 8-1 had been the norm before.

Investment bank conflict of interest - Goldman takes customer information and uses it to profit in proprietary trading. Companies should be allowed to service customers, or do proprietary trading, but not both. And trumpt - I agree that the Federal reserve should be audited also - once per year probably (but not at the will of the congress, they will use audits to try to take control of monetary policy).

If you insist on saying that regulation will never work (when it does work in other industries), then we have no hope. We can't let the banks run wild in a deregulated atmosphere - they wreck the world every time. The whole idea of lassez faire capitalism is wrong and bad.
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post #38 of 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

MJ - here are the things that were not regulated, that should have been:

Credit default swaps - we have a long history of regulating insurance companies in a way that makes sure that they have enough capital on hand to pay off insurance claims. If they had done this with credit default swaps (in the same way as they do for home insurance) AIG would not have blown up.

Loans - there needed to be some checks in place to make sure that banks were not committing fraud on loan originations. You can't just loan somebody money with fraudulent income, then sell the loan to another bank, without paying some kind of price. I have not heard of anyone being put in jail for these transactions.

Investment bank leverage ratios - 100-1 is a joke, and it was explicitly allowed by the SEC after 8-1 had been the norm before.

Investment bank conflict of interest - Goldman takes customer information and uses it to profit in proprietary trading. Companies should be allowed to service customers, or do proprietary trading, but not both. And trumpt - I agree that the Federal reserve should be audited also - once per year probably (but not at the will of the congress, they will use audits to try to take control of monetary policy).

If you insist on saying that regulation will never work (when it does work in other industries), then we have no hope. We can't let the banks run wild in a deregulated atmosphere - they wreck the world every time.

I will have to defer to your expertise in and extensive knowledge of the banking and insurance industries.


Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

The whole idea of lassez faire capitalism is wrong and bad.

I'm sorry to hear that you are so skeptical of people having freedom.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #39 of 50
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Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

I'm sorry to hear that you are so skeptical of people having freedom.

You don't have the freedom to murder people, for good reason. Free speech is limited in that you are not allowed to paint slogans on private property, etc.

Why should the banks be allowed to destroy the world? The whole idea of freedom is that you are allowed to do whatever you like as long as you don't hurt other people or infringe on the freedom of others, the banks are way past that point. They need to be stopped from hurting people and infringing on the freedom of others.
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post #40 of 50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

Why should the banks be allowed to destroy the world? The whole idea of freedom is that you are allowed to do whatever you like as long as you don't hurt other people or infringe on the freedom of others, the banks are way past that point. They need to be stopped from hurting people and infringing on the freedom of others.

Your anger is wrongly directed.

When was the last time you were forced at gunpoint to take a bank loan? The enemies to democracy are in Washington not on Wall Street.
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