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Apple developing Flash alternative named Gianduia

post #1 of 274
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As Adobe Flash and Microsoft Silverlight duke it out over their plugin-based, HTML-alternative web platforms, Apple is using Gianduia, its new a client-side, standards based framework for Rich Internet Apps, to create production quality online apps for its retail users.

Apple introduced Gianduia last summer at WOWODC (World of WebObjects Developer Conference), an independent event scheduled near the company's own WWDC event in June. It is likely that more information will surface at this year's WOWODC and WWDC events.

Gianduia, named after an Italian hazelnut chocolate, is "essentially is browser-side Cocoa (including CoreData) + WebObjects, written in JavaScript by non-js-haters," according to a tweet by developer Jonathan "Wolf" Rentzsch. "Jaw dropped."

After watching the NDA demo Apple gave for the new framework at WOWODC last year, Rentzch also tweeted, "Blown away by Gianduia. Cappuccino, SproutCore and JavascriptMVC have serious competition. Serious."

A variety of frameworks for building rich apps using web standards

SproutCore is the JavaScript framework Apple uses to build the web interface for its desktop-like MobileMe web apps. Cappuccino is another third party JavaScript framework that works as a Cocoa-like API for web apps; it was used to deliver 280Slides, a web app designed to provide most of the functionality of Apple's Keynote desktop application. JavascriptMVC is also an independent open source project used to develop rich apps within JavaScript for web deployment.

Like Cappuccino, Gianduia takes a Cocoa-inspired name (Cocoa is itself a Java-inspired name) to describe its role as a way for Cocoa developers to bring their skills to rich online applications built using web standards, with no need for a proprietary web plugin like Flash or Silverlight.

While the emerging new support for Rich Internet App features in HTML5 is often pitted competitively against Flash, Gianduia, SproutCore and related frameworks demonstrate that sophisticated web apps are already possible using existing web standards and without web plugins.

Apple Retail has actually already been using Gianduia to create web app clients (which plug into the company's WebObjects-based services), for a variety of popular programs over the last several months, including its One-to-One program, iPhone reservation system, and its Concierge service for Genius Bar reservations and Personal Shopping (shown below) programs.



On page 2 of 2: Adobe running out of AIR.

Adobe running out of AIR

While Adobe's Flash was once considered an essential tool for supporting animation, interactivity, video playback, and rich app development on the web, a variety of advances are chipping away at every corner of the plugin's platform, delivering the potential for better performance and security while jettisoning reliance upon Adobe to deliver cross-platform playback tools and singlehandedly advance the web's future capabilities.

Video: Three years ago, Apple prompted Google's YouTube service to support the new iPhone and Apple TV using direct downloads of H.264 videos, rather than only serving H.263/Sorenson Spark files wrapped in Flash, a standard that Google had adopted toward the end of 2005. A flood of mass migrations toward H.264 video encoding have resulted, enabling Flash-free devices to play videos from an increasing number of sources including Brighcove, Vimeo, ABC, CBS, and Ooyala.

Animation and interactivity: While plugins like Flash and Silverlight excel at drawing graphics within an embedded zone of a webpage in ways that are far more difficult to do in standard HTML, HTML5 now offers a sophisticated Canvas element that can be used to support web games and other sophisticated graphics directly within the HTML itself. That means videos and graphics are part of the web pages' Document Object Model (DOM), and can be animated, manipulated and styled with Cascading Style Sheet transforms that can scale, rotate and move objects around the page or warp them into 3D planes. Flash objects are stuck in their own context, and can't easily integrate with the rest of the web page nor other embedded Flash objects on the page.

Morphing Cube
Poster Circle
3D Transforms
Interactive 3D Cube
Interactive 3D Boxes



Rich apps: Adobe's solution to Rich Internet Apps takes Flash and extends it into an application framework that provides a write once, run anywhere solution similar to Sun's client-side Java. Microsoft has similarly positioned Silverlight as its solution to building apps for both the web and its upcoming smartphone platform. In contrast, Apple's reliance upon JavaScript frameworks means that Rich Internet Apps created with SproutCore or Gianduia, or interactive media created using its alternative lightweight frameworks for building native-looking web apps for iPhone (PastryKit), iPad (AdLib) and interactive content within iTunes or Apple TV (TuneKit) do not require any proprietary plugins from Apple to work.

Performance: Additionally, as browser vendors enhance and optimize their JavaScript performance (as Apple, Google, Mozilla and Opera have been doing), those rich apps will all run better across the board. In contrast, content designed for Flash or Silverlight is dependent upon Adobe or Microsoft delivering timely plugin updates, and being interested in supporting various alternative platforms. HTML5 is already delivering comparable performance to Flash, despite being Flash having a nearly five year head start in optimizing its performance.

Security: Another advantage to JavaScript frameworks is that they use the browser's own JavaScript engine, code that is openly vetted for security issues and has well understood best practices. The rapidly changing, closed development of proprietary web plugins by Adobe and Microsoft open up tremendous potential for complex security vulnerabilities that are not easy for anyone outside of those companies to evaluate. At CanSecWest, security expert Charlie Miller was asked which browser is safest, to which he replied, there probably isnt enough difference between the browsers to get worked up about. The main thing is not to install Flash!
post #2 of 274
first, change the name. we can't champion something we can't even pronounce. that's why the iceland volcano never went viral.
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post #3 of 274
I am all for it as long as it's standard based, and not require a plugin.
post #4 of 274
Flash is so ready to bite the dust. Closed, buggy, resource-hogging, insecure, and doesn't play well with DOM.

Looking forward to a Flash Free Future!

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #5 of 274
Please make it available under a BSD Type licence! Then it could really be successful
post #6 of 274
Plus I hear Apple will generously let developers keep 70% of all income generated from their hard work!



But seriously.. Integrated iAd. You heard it here first.
post #7 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpcg View Post

Please make it available under a BSD Type licence! Then it could really be successful

Apple has done really well with SproutCore so hopefully this ends up distributed in the same way. If it is as good as implied it can do a lot to sink the world of plugins.

As to Apple using an open license I would guess that that depends upon what they want to accomplish with this new library. Personally I'd like to see an open license also as it would really drive people to the new web browsers and HTML5. On the otherhand Apple could see the lib as a competitive advantage for it's own web sites.

Hey maybe we will know in a month or two.



Dave
post #8 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Madcapper View Post

Plus I hear Apple will generously let developers keep 70% of all income generated from their hard work!

Anybody with even a remote background in business knows that AppStore is an excellent value. In fact it has made it possible for many people to start successful businesses, be successful and even hire a few people.
Quote:


But seriously.. Integrated iAd. You heard it here first.

That might be so but I doubt it would be a requirement. In any event don't underestimate the ability to push ads as a way for people to gain economically from their programming efforts. The breath of apps on app store is directly related to the ability to get that payoff for work put into the app even if it is free!


Dave



Dave
post #9 of 274
Gianduia ... rhymes with 'what's it to'ya'

Love the food combo - hazelnut and dark chocolate. Very popular in Torino, where they lay a local claim to it. Combine with cappuccino and java (a bit redundant) and you've got yourself a serious food high.
post #10 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by battiato1981 View Post

Gianduia ... rhymes with 'what's it to'ya'

Love the food combo - hazelnut and dark chocolate. Very popular in Torino, where they lay a local claim to it. Combine with cappuccino and java (a bit redundant) and you've got yourself a serious food high.

A name is like a joke. If it needs to be explained it isn't any good.

Imagine the laughter here if MS had named something Gianduia. Imagine the cracks about Ballmer filling his off all the chocolate.

Seriously folks, this is one bad name. Makes iPad look outstanding in comparison.
post #11 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by min_t View Post

first, change the name. we can't champion something we can't even pronounce. that's why the iceland volcano never went viral.

Here! Here! Gianduia sounds like something I need to visit my Dr. about...... and maybe get a shot of penicillin.
post #12 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

HTML5 is already delivering comparable performance to Flash, despite being Flash having a nearly five year head start in optimizing its performance.

In some areas, like HW resources, HTML5 is seriously ahead of Flash. This is why Flash is still "in development" for Android, why the minimum HW specs exceed nearly every phone on the market today and why it will require Android v2.2(?) to even work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Please please delete the iPhone formatted web site!
Seriosly it makes the site far less enjoyable on the iPhone. We have suffered enough.

Please please delete your excessively large sig font. You can choose to view as Full Site instead of iPhone.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #13 of 274
I am not sure Apple will do this. It is for building web-based apps. I can see them use this in MobileMe and all of their web-software, but giving this as alternative to flash will not fly high.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #14 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Please please delete your excessively large sig font. You can choose to view as Full Site instead of iPhone.

He definitely has a point though, and it's gone unnoticed for a long time. In landscape mode the mobile site is unusable. It's really hard to believe anyone at AI has used the mobile version on an iPhone. I constantly have to scroll-adjust to get the banners off the text I'm trying to read. Having to switch to the regular site is a pain. They should fix it !
post #15 of 274
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Apple comes out with a professional version of iWeb for us web designers that hate code.
post #16 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

He definitely has a point though, and it's gone unnoticed for a long time. In landscape mode the mobile site is unusable. It's really hard to believe anyone at AI has used the mobile version on an iPhone. I constantly have to scroll-adjust to get the banners off the text I'm trying to read. Having to switch to the regular site is a pain. They should fix it !

I would argue that his point is unclear. He's calling for the deletion of the mobile site when the full site is still an option.

I agree with your sig that the banners should remain at the top and bottom of the page, not constantly in the viewing area on the display when you remove your finger. After all, what is the point of having mobile page if not to have the content easily viewed and accessed despite having minimal screen space in which to do it? Maybe I'll start a poll...


edit: I did start a poll...

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=109366
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #17 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Madcapper View Post

Plus I hear Apple will generously let developers keep 70% of all income generated from their hard work!



But seriously.. Integrated iAd. You heard it here first.

You get to keep 70% for applications. For ads, you get to keep 60%. Think of how much money you'll save on your taxes.

Actually, the 70:30 split is actually very good - considering how much more revenue you're likely to have on the App Store for these 'mini-apps' compared to doing it yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Apple comes out with a professional version of iWeb for us web designers that hate code.

I'll second that. Or even just a version of iWeb that's not so limited. Like the fact that you can't open your iWeb site with a different web editor.
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post #18 of 274
I'd like to see Apple make a Dreamweaver like HTML5 development program. It would make a nice addition to their pro apps suite.
post #19 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Apple has done really well with SproutCore so hopefully this ends up distributed in the same way. If it is as good as implied it can do a lot to sink the world of plugins.

As to Apple using an open license I would guess that that depends upon what they want to accomplish with this new library. Personally I'd like to see an open license also as it would really drive people to the new web browsers and HTML5. On the otherhand Apple could see the lib as a competitive advantage for it's own web sites.

Hey maybe we will know in a month or two.

Dave

Please please delete the iPhone formatted web site!
Seriosly it makes the site far less enjoyable on the iPhone. We have suffered enough.


One of the words in your giant signature is misspelled - Seriously.

And correcting your error won't make it any better.
post #20 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I agree with your sig that the banners should remain at the top and bottom of the page, not constantly in the viewing area on the display when you remove your finger. After all, what is the point of having mobile page if not to have the content easily viewed and accessed despite having minimal screen space in which to do it? Maybe I'll start a poll...


edit: I did start a poll...
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=109366

I voted. I agree that the persistent banners are really annoying, but the rest of it is fine. Much easier to read than having to constantly pinch and drag the full site to try and read its minuscule text on the little screen. Can't imagine why anyone would not want it as an option.
A.k.a. AppleHead on other forums.
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post #21 of 274
Holy crap!!! This is freakin' huge! Why have I not heard of this before?
post #22 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by sippincider View Post

A name is like a joke. If it needs to be explained it isn't any good.

What a wonderfully apt analogy! Congratulations, that made my day.

On the other hand, since this is not a mass consumer level product, and will only be used by cognoscenti, it might actually work: an insider name for an insider group.
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post #23 of 274
Off topic, but this is quite an ad I just saw on the AI homepage.

GIGO. The truth in all of life.
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GIGO. The truth in all of life.
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post #24 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

What a wonderfully apt analogy! Congratulations, that made my day.

On the other hand, since this is not a mass consumer level product, and will only be used by cognoscenti, it might actually work: an insider name for an insider group.

I vote for CocoaButter or TextualChocolate.
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post #25 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

He definitely has a point though, and it's gone unnoticed for a long time. In landscape mode the mobile site is unusable. It's really hard to believe anyone at AI has used the mobile version on an iPhone. I constantly have to scroll-adjust to get the banners off the text I'm trying to read. Having to switch to the regular site is a pain. They should fix it !

Here's another vote for a new iPhone site. The current one is very bad. Please, even an offline app like TUAW, Switched, or Engadget would be better, and even welcome. But the online site still needs to be fixed.
GIGO. The truth in all of life.
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post #26 of 274
[QUOTE=Smiles77;1628454]Off topic, but this is quite an ad I just saw on the AI homepage./QUOTE]

Ah, the inventiveness of advertisers. The "test" will doubtlessly be after the phone is released.
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post #27 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

I'd like to see Apple make a Dreamweaver like HTML5 development program. It would make a nice addition to their pro apps suite.

While I'd like this, I think Adobe is in a much better position to do this. They could even further their sales of Flash Professional by having it output standards-based HTML/JS/CSS for newer browsers and Flash as a fallback for older browsers. After all, they make their money on the pro app sales, not the free plug-in.
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post #28 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Ah, the inventiveness of advertisers. The "test" will doubtlessly be after the phone is released.

When I see things like this, I gotta shake my head at the way the world turns. The worst thing is, I know a whole lot of people who would get sucked into this kinda thing. Sad world we live in, especially when something like that is legal.
GIGO. The truth in all of life.
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post #29 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by min_t View Post

first, change the name. we can't champion something we can't even pronounce. that's why the iceland volcano never went viral.

John Dula.... like in:

Hang down your head John Dula,
Hang down your head and cry!
Hang down your head John Dula,
For boy, you're bound to die:

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/the...io/id315887468

Song # 2, Tom Dooley

.
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post #30 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

You get to keep 70% for applications. For ads, you get to keep 60%. Think of how much money you'll save on your taxes.

Actually, the 70:30 split is actually very good - considering how much more revenue you're likely to have on the App Store for these 'mini-apps' compared to doing it yourself.



I'll second that. Or even just a version of iWeb that's not so limited. Like the fact that you can't open your iWeb site with a different web editor.

The next version of iWeb will include a shopping cart that allows visitors to use their iTunes account to purchase items.

...that otta' stir the pot!

.
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post #31 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree View Post

I'd like to see Apple make a Dreamweaver like HTML5 development program. It would make a nice addition to their pro apps suite.

No, actually, they should leave that for Adobe (for at least a year), then, if still no solution...

.
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post #32 of 274
"John-Do-Ya" is pretty close as far as I can tell.

Not overly difficult to say, but I agree they could have picked a better word.
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post #33 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

IPlease please delete your excessively large sig font. You can choose to view as Full Site instead of iPhone.

Clicked on • http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=109366 and voted 'Agree!'
post #34 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

OK Solip...I click on the link in your signature...but how do I vote 'agree?'

The poll says you did vote 'Agree'.
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post #35 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

While I'd like this, I think Adobe is in a much better position to do this.

Not a chance. They'd have to admit that Flash isn't God's gift to the Internet before they'd want to develop anything else.
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post #36 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Not a chance. They'd have to admit that Flash isn't God's gift to the Internet before they'd want to develop anything else.

Absolutely, there is a lot of hubris to get past, and surprised I forgot to include that as a reason why they won't do it until it's too late. My point was that between Flash Professional and Dreamweaver they are in the best position to offer a great solution.
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post #37 of 274
make sure it works with firefox. Maybe someone can clear it up for me, is this Gianduia just a development tool/software for html5, or is this some sort of standard for HTML5 or something completely different. I don't really want another plugin.
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post #38 of 274
Erm, the name / joke analogy is actually a little boneheaded. How many hugely successful products and companies of the last decade have nonsensical names? I don't even need to provide an example. Your style of thinking might be better suited to hygiene accessory manufacturers.
post #39 of 274
The header is misleading. What Sproutcore and others trying to do has nothing to do with Flash.

And until HW acceleration is available on all browser. ( Like IE 9 ), Flash is still faster for animation..

The question that no one has answered is why Apple sponsored two Javascript Development framework? SproutCore and Gianduia both seems to offer the same thing.
post #40 of 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

make sure it works with firefox. Maybe someone can clear it up for me, is this Gianduia just a development tool/software for html5, or is this some sort of standard for HTML5 or something completely different. I don't really want another plugin.

It's not a plugin, as the article mentions many times.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

The header is misleading. What Sproutcore and others trying to do has nothing to do with Flash.

It has everything to do with Flash (and Silverlight). If these rich web interaction can be handled by efficient and easily coded JS then there is no need for Flash (or Silverlight) for that same task. It doesn't have to do EVERYTHING Flash can do to pick away at it's usage and become prominent. Just look at the number of sites moving to HTML5 for video over Flash, and that is the start.

Quote:
And until HW acceleration is available on all browser. ( Like IE 9 ), Flash is still faster for animation.

It doesn't have to be available for ALL browsers before it can be effective. Between WebKit-based browsers have a monopoly on mobile browsers and Firefox's market-share on the desktop I think that WebGL will have enough marketshare to be useful for those wanting to include animations. I don't see how Flash could possibly be faster (ie: resource efficient) than Flash. This is still new stuff and Flash isn't going away, but the facts are there are plenty of attacks on Flash on many fronts to which it will not be able to defend.
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