Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum
The video you linked is quite good... what I would expect of a beta product.
I find it odd that the presenter in the link (via Gruber) didn't do a presentation similar to that. Possibly, he was trying to wow em' with a later (buggier) version... if so, bad choice.
I understand your reasons for not being able to cite other developers ... fair enough.
Now, let me state my opinions:
1) I am a Mac user-- always have been, Flash on the Mac Sucks, In my experience. In 2004 I tried to program a Stock market site with Flash: Update a 10 column, 30 row table of stocks where the price changed every minute and the total value of each stock was calculated (price * shares = value) and the total value was summed. All the data acquisition and calculations were done server side, and sent to a Flash window on a web page. The Flash could not run fast enough to refresh 61 table fields (out of 301) every 60 seconds. I had friends at Macromedia/Adobe at that time and several Flash experts looked at the code... Long story short, after much effort, we could not make it perform on a Mac (though it worked fine on slower PCs).
2) Fast forward to current Flash running a a 2.8 GHz Core 2 Duo with 4 Gig RAM. After visiting several sites containing Flash the computer slowed. I closed all the Flash windows so Flash was not running at all:
Here's the Flas performance hit:
Also, most of my browser crashes (~95%) were Flash-related. I installed Click2Flash and things "just work" again.
My final point(s)
-- this is an Apple related site for discussion of Apple-related topics, pro and con
-- well-considered, and well-presented points are appreciated by most who choose to participate.
-- several of the members that you are sparring with fit the above description and are generally appreciated
-- while I do not always agree withe these members, I enjoy the discussion and sometimes alter my views because of their posts
-- when there is a lot of unproductive bashing going on, I generally look at the participants and my experience with them.
-- often, the contentious posting can be traced to a few anti-Apple Trolls.
-- You and a few others have recently joined this forum (you within the last 8 days) and have made a lot of controversial posts
-- while that in itself does not make you a troll, it does raise suspicion
-- In these situations, I tend to give more credence to members I know (but do not necessarily agree with) than members I do not know.
Finally, I am not going to reread all the posts... but I really doubt that you have been called a "liar'"
Challenging your facts or the "truth" of what you say... is not calling you a liar!
BTW, I read the link via Gruber and all the comments-- I found it a pretty even-handed discussion, and the blogger made considerable effort to be fair and challenge obvious trolls.
Actually the pair of them said I said something, and when I asked where, they never responded. I know why, because I never said them. They took many of my statements, and twisted them, and rarely if ever stayed in a straight enough line. This is my introduction here, I don't know them, all I have to base my impression is that. And:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Don't add to Groovetube's lies and anti-Apple/pro-Adobe agenda....
I never heard what my "lies" were. Then I head I was getting ready for the ban hammer. Well.
I'm not anti-apple, and certainly no troll. I switched to macs back when very few of my developer friends were on macs, and took a little ribbing for it. My PC corrupted when I had a deadline for the last time, and I had a beige G3 souped up for testing and premier video edits, I downloaded the trials, and even with less than half the power, finished all my work that day. I went out and bought a dual G4 with Jaguar the next day. I've bought a hell of a lot of macs, my shop is pretty much all apple, I own an iphone, bought my wife one, have an apple tv, (love it), and I'm typing on a relatively new 17 MBP tricked out. If I were anti apple, I have a screw loose.
Despite being a card carrying apple user, if Apple, or Steve Jobs does something I really disagree with, I'm going to say so. I disagree with his hard line on flash, not because I think it should have -been- on the phone, because I really DON'T, but because I believe, based on my experience, and involvement, he isn't being altogether truthful. Certainly, not anymore than adobe has been. And I stand firm on that, despite being called an adobe shill, and a liar.
I am at a disadvantage here, because adobe hasn't released 10.1 mobile yet. Personally, it's my business to stay very on top of where this is going, and certainly, I have concerns. I'm hopeful based on what I saw, I know well where the industry is on all this, and we are very far, from the demise of flash. I've developed in flash since version 3 professionally. And this, is certainly by far, not the first time I've heard flash will be killed. It's waaaay to ubiquitous to die that quickly by any means. Flash will take it on the chin over video, but again, it seems people are forgetting something. I've been around long enough, to remember when flash had no video support, and it did just fine then too. It's a point that seems completely missed by everyone.
Flash on the mac has pissed me of since switching. It's always ran about 10 to 20 fps second slower, and things like no kerning tables available on export etc. has been minor annoyances. Adobe has been lazy on developing for mac. Sure it's been frustrating. I think adobe underestimated apple, and 6ish% of the market for it's player just wasn't important enough.
Now we are looking at 16% in the mobile space (though apple guys want you to feel it's 95...), and the ipad will be an important entry into the market. I try to look past all the chest thumping, the flash is GONA DIE! the high fiving, googling of links designed to prove a point, because none of it has any value at the end of the day. I'll make my decisions based on what I see. I, and many hundreds of thousands of developers, are watching adobe right now, and I'm sure they're keenly aware of it. All eyes are on android, the flight to support android in the developer community lately has been rather breath-taking. It was rather almost unknown to me until a number of weeks ago all hell breaks loose. I think google needs to send SJ a note of thanks...
Anyway, now this gets turned into an us and them somehow, all I was trying to do was inject -some- sanity and truth, or perhaps balance, a devil's advocate, if that were even possible. What resulted, is I'm a anti apple troll or lying adobe shill. Cripes. Is it really that religious here? I think things are very much in the balance right now. No one can say with any degree of certainty what is going to result ina couple years, though some seem to have quite the crystal ball. One can only wish...
As for your flash trouble, data enabled flash is something I hae a lot of experience in. Namely I write a lot of PHP, and I can't say I've had the kind of trouble you've experienced. 60 seconds is a hell of a lot of time, and I've pushed a hell of a lot more data in a 1/4 of the time with no problems, but, there's a lot factors that could be in play there. I hope you didn't use adobe's -horrible- components...
Out of curiosity, what flash sites did you visit to get it to 800megs? I just surfed the hell out of youtube, and the best I could get was just over a 100 megs.