or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › First look: Valve's Steam, Team Fortress 2 and Portal for Mac
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

First look: Valve's Steam, Team Fortress 2 and Portal for Mac - Page 2

post #41 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

You can't easily overclock or update game consoles with better hardware either, and those platforms seem to be doing pretty well overall.

The Steam Hardware Survey shows that the median hardware is not today's high end but technology that's a few years old now.

The most popular screen resolution is 1280x1024.

As an aside, for all the complaining we've heard in these forums about OS X lacking SLI/Crossfire support, it turns out that only about 2% of Steam users are using it.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/

I can't let this slide...

You're misrepresenting the Steam survey. While "the most popular" screen resolution is 1280x1024 (18.8%) more than 56% run at a resolution greater than that (including over 10% with dual monitors).
post #42 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

there isn't a common API like Direct X that can hook into the deeper layers of OS X.

It's called OpenGL. And the nice thing about OpenGL is that it is multiplatform; you can use nearly the same graphics code on any operating system supporting OpenGL, including Linux and Windows as well.

Apple is actually improving their OpenGL code as we speak, and it's primarily due to Steam coming!
post #43 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaolinDave View Post

Public beta this month?
Wasn't the official word from Valve that the official release was this Wednesday? Now all we're getting is two games?
First they delay the official release from April to mid-May, now the official release is just a public beta and who know when we'll get the full thing. I wish Valve would stop jerking us around like this.


Apple owners should be happy that any major software vendor would make software for the Mac, on any schedule, at any time.
post #44 of 77
I bet they don't even sell enough to cover their costs.
post #45 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

As an aside, for all the complaining we've heard in these forums about OS X lacking SLI/Crossfire support, it turns out that only about 2% of Steam users are using it.


The other thing to consider is that as video cards are updated, often a single card will perform as well as two of last year's cards.

SLI is only for people who upgrade constantly and need the very fastest and best. Those folks are PC folks. They wouldn't really consider a Mac even if it had SLI.
post #46 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post


.. Really these companies are just trying to make a quick and easy buck. They know that gaming sucks so bad on Apple computers that they can throw a 3 year-old bone to us and lots of Mac users will jump all over it...

Anyways, with the 2 generation old, rebranded graphics in the new Macbook Pros, and no DirectX support in OSX, I don't think this will change too much about the mac as a gaming platform, except for people who don't mind playing with all graphics set to "low".


Good points. But a 3 year old bone is better than the current situation. Mac owners should all be very happy that a company is willing to write software for the Mac.
post #47 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffer View Post


Ehrm - Telltale Games has done exactly this several months ago, when they released their Monkey Island episodes for Mac - also for free for customers owning the Windows-versions? :

If ANY big software company starts making title for the Mac, it is big news. It happens infrequently.
post #48 of 77
Just incredible to hear some of you actually bitching about this. Blows my mind.

Cost: FREE.
Impact on the Mac gaming world: IMMENSE.
Initial return for Valve: ZERO.
Ungrateful, whiney Mac fanboys complaining about release schedules? Unbelievable.
post #49 of 77
i remember being ADDICTED to counter-strike in college (9 years ago). i can't wait to pick it up again now that i'm a 'professional'.
post #50 of 77
I for one am happy and plan to download my FREE Mac copy of TF2 (I already own the Steam-based PC version) and play the hell out of it on my HDTV.
post #51 of 77
Why would you "bet" that? People thought the same thing when Steam was first released in 2003, and look at what happened since then.

This will be the start of the return of gaming on the Mac in a huge way. Great for developers and consumers alike.

The ONLY reason I used BootCamp was to be able to use Steam and play TF2 (why would I need to buy a gaming PC is I already had an iMac that had good enough specs?). Now I won't need to use Bootcamp anymore, NOR will I need to rebuy all of the Source Engines games (Portal, HL, HL2, HL Episodes, TF2, etc), because I get the Mac versions automatically.

Win Win in all regards.
post #52 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHarborGuy View Post

Why would you "bet" that? People thought the same thing when Steam was first released in 2003, and look at what happened since then.

This will be the start of the return of gaming on the Mac in a huge way. Great for developers and consumers alike.

The ONLY reason I used BootCamp was to be able to use Steam and play TF2 (why would I need to buy a gaming PC is I already had an iMac that had good enough specs?). Now I won't need to use Bootcamp anymore, NOR will I need to rebuy all of the Source Engines games (Portal, HL, HL2, HL Episodes, TF2, etc), because I get the Mac versions automatically.

Win Win in all regards.

agreed

fast mbp's will rock steam


apple love
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
whats in a name ? 
beatles
Reply
post #53 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noliving View Post

Disagree, besides maybe the Operating system and the amount of ram, it is pretty much high end, most people are either using a 4800 or 5800 series of ATi card, for Nvidia it is either a 8800/9800 and also a 260x video card, they are using decent processors as well.

For the primary display resolution, ah ya 1280x1024 is only around 18.8% and your forgetting the fact that over 18% have it at 1680x1050, over 10% have it at 1920x1080 and additional 5% have it at 1920x1200, I would say nearly as many people are running it at 1920x1080, if you include the 1920x1200, as they are running at 1280x1024

On the single graphics, that's true (but the fact that 25% still use DX9 should say something), but the processors represented could be as old as 2006 or 2H2005 and still be in the middle of that pack. Going by the chart, it's only in the past few months that the quad core users finally exceeded the single core users. The fact that a negligible portion of users are running dual GPU or higher still remains as well, lack of SLI is one of the things that Mac detractors really screamed about on this forum, they had the fervent feeling that it's a very common thing to do when they couldn't prove that it was in widespread use, and it turns out it really isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StLBluesFan View Post

I can't let this slide...

You're misrepresenting the Steam survey. While "the most popular" screen resolution is 1280x1024 (18.8%) more than 56% run at a resolution greater than that (including over 10% with dual monitors).

But there's the flip side, 44% of steam users are using 1280x1024 or lower as their primary display resolution. It's also comical that a 5:4 screen is still so commonly used.
post #54 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamG View Post

The other thing to consider is that as video cards are updated, often a single card will perform as well as two of last year's cards.

SLI is only for people who upgrade constantly and need the very fastest and best. Those folks are PC folks. They wouldn't really consider a Mac even if it had SLI.

But if 1 of the newest cards would run so well, then wouldn't 2 of those cards perform even better? SLI and Crossfire are not just for games. For all the talk about Macs being the ultimate professional graphics workstations, Apple should have the hardware support to back it up.
post #55 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

But if 1 of the newest cards would run so well, then wouldn't 2 of those cards perform even better? SLI and Crossfire are not just for games. For all the talk about Macs being the ultimate professional graphics workstations, Apple should have the hardware support to back it up.

Apple DOES have the hardware, but that is usually in the higher end systems. Its the difference between the $1200 iMac (NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with 256MB shared memory ) and the $2000 iMac (ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics with 512MB).

And two cards DO perform better, but not double the performance. If you get 30fps with 1 card, you won't get 60fps with 2. It's much like how 256Kbps MP3 does not sound "twice as good" as 128Kbps. It's all subjective in the end.
post #56 of 77
Can't believe nobody's brought up the most important question... When is Episode 3 coming??? Kinda ended on a bit of a cliffhanger with Episode 2!
post #57 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacHarborGuy View Post

Apple DOES have the hardware, but that is usually in the higher end systems. Its the difference between the $1200 iMac (NVIDIA GeForce 9400M with 256MB shared memory ) and the $2000 iMac (ATI Radeon HD 4850 graphics with 512MB).

I ran the Half-Life series just fine on my 1st-gen MBP with its (relatively) ancient X1600. Granted HL-2 isn't modern itself, but my point is that this should run fine with the current generation of (discrete) video cards.
post #58 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

I ran the Half-Life series just fine on my 1st-gen MBP with its (relatively) ancient X1600. Granted HL-2 isn't modern itself, but my point is that this should run fine with the current generation of (discrete) video cards.

Yep, I have a 2007 Core 2 Duo iMac with a RadeonHD 2400 with 128MB of VRAM, and the MAIN reason I am happy for Steam on the Mac is for TF2. It ran quite acceptably from within Bootcamp with most settings turned up to high (except FSAA and some filtering settings).

If you are listening Apple, "When my AppleCare runs out on my current iMac, Steam may more than likely make me buy a new Mac that is more expensive than a $1000 refurb."


And we cannot forget this one thing: it is not simply about Steam being a place for PC game developers to use as a jumping in point on the Mac, but a place for current Mac game developers (yes, they do exist), to have as a way to easily distribute their products as well as track their sales and users hardware profiles.
post #59 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

Can't believe nobody's brought up the most important question... When is Episode 3 coming??? Kinda ended on a bit of a cliffhanger with Episode 2!

That won't be until at least 2011. Valve said no new games this year but they brought forward Portal 2 in time for Christmas.

This Steam launch will most likely consist of only games we already know about:

Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1
Bioshock 1
NFS: Carbon
The Sims 3
Half-Life 1
HL:2 + ep1 + ep2
Portal 1
TF2
True Crime: Streets of LA
Star Wars the Force Unleashed
Jedi Knight 2 Outcast and Academy
Tiger Woods PGA
Prey
UT3
Colin McRae Rally
Battlefield 2142
Harry Potter
World of Warcraft
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Neverwinter Nights 2
Command & Conquer
The Chronicles of Riddick (upcoming)
Quake 4
Doom 3
Lego Star Wars/Indiana Jones
Star Wars Battlefront
Star Wars KOTOR
James Bond 007: Nightfire
Splinter Cell 1 (thanks a lot Ubisoft)
XIII
Halo 1
Star Trek Elite Force 1 & 2
Tony Hawk 4
BloodRayne
Soldier of Fortune II
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Spider Man 1
Sacrifice
Red Faction 1
American McGee's Alice
Escape from Monkey Island
The Tales of Monkey Island
Myst series (1-5)
Spore
Prince of Persia
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Still Life 2
Guitar Hero
Disney games: Cars, Up, The Incredibles
Black & White 1 and 2
X-Plane 9
StarCraft II
Brothers in Arms

That wouldn't be a bad list of games to start out with even if most of them are old games. I'd probably get Quake 4 as I only ever played the demo. I would like to play Half-Life using a controller so will get those again and try out the 360 controller on the Mac using the 3rd party driver. Maybe the Force Unleashed but it's a big download and they will charge full price for it. I would possibly get Still Life 2 as well, it's nowhere near as good as the first one but I'd see if it plays better performance-wise on the Mac side.

Modern Warfare 2 would be good - it requires Steam so it can be ported over now. I think that if publishers don't keep adding games to the distribution platform, it will run out of steam (pun intended) quite quickly. At least it'll be a place you can get downloads legitimately.
post #60 of 77
The funny thing about that list is that I already own a few of those via the PC side of steam.

Bioshock 1, Half Life 1, HL2, Ep1, Ep2, Portal, TF2, UT3, Quake Wars, WoW, Doom 3 and expansion, Return to Wolfinstein, Torchlight (just announced in the Press Release).

So I will, apparently, have the Mac versions as well, instantly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

That won't be until at least 2011. Valve said no new games this year but they brought forward Portal 2 in time for Christmas.

This Steam launch will most likely consist of only games we already know about:

Call of Duty Modern Warfare 1
Bioshock 1
NFS: Carbon
The Sims 3
Half-Life 1
HL:2 + ep1 + ep2
Portal 1
TF2
True Crime: Streets of LA
Star Wars the Force Unleashed
Jedi Knight 2 Outcast and Academy
Tiger Woods PGA
Prey
UT3
Colin McRae Rally
Battlefield 2142
Harry Potter
World of Warcraft
Enemy Territory: Quake Wars
Tomb Raider Anniversary
Neverwinter Nights 2
Command & Conquer
The Chronicles of Riddick (upcoming)
Quake 4
Doom 3
Lego Star Wars/Indiana Jones
Star Wars Battlefront
Star Wars KOTOR
James Bond 007: Nightfire
Splinter Cell 1 (thanks a lot Ubisoft)
XIII
Halo 1
Star Trek Elite Force 1 & 2
Tony Hawk 4
BloodRayne
Soldier of Fortune II
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Spider Man 1
Sacrifice
Red Faction 1
American McGee's Alice
Escape from Monkey Island
The Tales of Monkey Island
Myst series (1-5)
Spore
Prince of Persia
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Still Life 2
Guitar Hero
Disney games: Cars, Up, The Incredibles
Black & White 1 and 2
X-Plane 9
StarCraft II
Brothers in Arms

That wouldn't be a bad list of games to start out with even if most of them are old games. I'd probably get Quake 4 as I only ever played the demo. I would like to play Half-Life using a controller so will get those again and try out the 360 controller on the Mac using the 3rd party driver. Maybe the Force Unleashed but it's a big download and they will charge full price for it. I would possibly get Still Life 2 as well, it's nowhere near as good as the first one but I'd see if it plays better performance-wise on the Mac side.

Modern Warfare 2 would be good - it requires Steam so it can be ported over now. I think that if publishers don't keep adding games to the distribution platform, it will run out of steam (pun intended) quite quickly. At least it'll be a place you can get downloads legitimately.
post #61 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

While I am thankful Valve has done this, I don't think the Mac is still a viable platform. As fat as I know, there isn't a common API like Direct X that can hook into the deeper layers of OS X. There isn't a huge Mac market if you break down the numbers. Apple doesn't allow overclocking, frequent video driver updates nor do they allow graphic cards to be swapped in and out.

OpenGL has the same level of hooks as Direct X and if you look at the larger console market it has the larger marketshare. So in the console to PC port arena OpenGL makes more sense.

How many games really require overclocking? Very few.
If your API calls aren't written by monkeys you shouldn't need frequent video driver updates.
As for swapping graphic cards in and out who want to do that if they are changing from one game to other? Again very few.

These supposed "limitations" really don't exist for the majority of the gaming market which seems to be made up mainly of retro and casual gamers
post #62 of 77
post #63 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkyp56 View Post

its up for me!!!

Yeah, looks like it's unlocked but the store isn't showing up. My games list is still all set as unavailable.

They only mentioned Portal and Torchlight for this week and titles are going to be added every Wednesday. I guess because Tuesday is Apple's day for doing stuff.

Sigh, I was really hoping to get HL2 running this week but I guess that won't be happening.

Edit: store is up and no decent games as yet. Portal is great if you haven't played it (and it's free until May 24th) but nothing to see if you've played it through before. 62 Mac games and pretty much all of them are the really low-end puzzle games that aren't very good. Some classics from LucasArts but most of them will be unfamiliar.

I find the interface irritatingly sluggish. Couldn't they have made the thing scroll smoothly? It's a freakin' web page. The download sizes are not that pleasant either. Downloading is convenient in some cases but getting it shipped out on a disc means quicker installs.

The potential is still there and already I've seen a huge number of games I'd never have known were available for the Mac (even though I don't want them).
post #64 of 77
I'll be trying it out when I get home! Hopefully my Mini/9400M can handle HL2. Leaving that unfinished was among my very few regrets when I unplugged my PC.
post #65 of 77
Portal runs really well, even on my less than steller REV.A aluminum iMac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post

It's called OpenGL. And the nice thing about OpenGL is that it is multiplatform; you can use nearly the same graphics code on any operating system supporting OpenGL, including Linux and Windows as well.

Apple is actually improving their OpenGL code as we speak, and it's primarily due to Steam coming!

That's good because despite Apple being a member of the Khronos Group, OSX's OGL implementation has usually been very poorly done and generally several years behind the current published specification.
post #66 of 77
I just installed Steam and I am downloading Portal now (free, at least for a while...).

I will let you know how it does on an Macbook Pro 15", i7.

I think it is GREAT that valve brought this platform to the mac.
post #67 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

Portal runs really well, even on my less than steller REV.A aluminum iMac.

And so it should, Portal is a three year old game. The funny thing is it won't run on my iMac due to the 7600GT, where the Windows version runs fine on it.
post #68 of 77
I just got done playing for a little while.

It ran fine on this machine. I was able to run it at native panel resolution (1680x1050). It was still very fluid. I didn't go into the advanced settings at all. The video looked very good.

I didn't get to play much as it is getting late, but it ran great. Excellent development for gaming on the mac platform!

Quote:
Originally Posted by debusoh View Post

I just installed Steam and I am downloading Portal now (free, at least for a while...).

I will let you know how it does on an Macbook Pro 15", i7.

I think it is GREAT that valve brought this platform to the mac.
post #69 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

And so it should, Portal is a three year old game. The funny thing is it won't run on my iMac due to the 7600GT, where the Windows version runs fine on it.

Same here. Theres even a video on YouTube apparently of someone running Portal on GMA950 at low settings and getting decent FPS.

Hopefully this will change. At least it was free!
post #70 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

On the single graphics, that's true (but the fact that 25% still use DX9 should say something), but the processors represented could be as old as 2006 or 2H2005 and still be in the middle of that pack. Going by the chart, it's only in the past few months that the quad core users finally exceeded the single core users. The fact that a negligible portion of users are running dual GPU or higher still remains as well, lack of SLI is one of the things that Mac detractors really screamed about on this forum, they had the fervent feeling that it's a very common thing to do when they couldn't prove that it was in widespread use, and it turns out it really isn't.

Yes it does, it tells me that the majority have decent graphic cards. dual core Processors as old as 2006, that are most likely core 2 duo processors, are still decent when you look at the system requirements of the games on Steam. Very few games want a processor under the recommended settings to be either a core 2 duo 2.4 or a quad core. Dual graphics cards were always a niche market, the argument was that it was another hardware feature that the mac computers lack.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

But there's the flip side, 44% of steam users are using 1280x1024 or lower as their primary display resolution. It's also comical that a 5:4 screen is still so commonly used.

Ya so what? Professional gamers at CAL run at 1024x768 with the latest sponsored hardware from Intel, ATi, and Nvidia for the sole reason to absolutely guarantee a playable experience no matter what.
post #71 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noliving View Post

Yes it does, it tells me that the majority have decent graphic cards. dual core Processors as old as 2006, that are most likely core 2 duo processors, are still decent when you look at the system requirements of the games on Steam. Very few games want a processor under the recommended settings to be either a core 2 duo 2.4 or a quad core. Dual graphics cards were always a niche market, the argument was that it was another hardware feature that the mac computers lack.

There were actually a few that posted here that suggested most gamers used it.

Something that's lost is that lacking SLI/Crossfire support really doesn't impact a lot of users as a proportion.

Quote:
Ya so what? Professional gamers at CAL run at 1024x768 with the latest sponsored hardware from Intel, ATi, and Nvidia for the sole reason to absolutely guarantee a playable experience no matter what.

I doubt that 12% of steam users are professional gamers. I suppose it brings up a question whether the hardware survey is reading the actual display panel native resolution or the resolution used.
post #72 of 77
Not sure why this is filed under "Mac OS" instead of under "Applications", but whatever...

Has anyone tried Portal yet? I just played for about fifteen minutes and have to say I'm a little disappointed. I played Portal under Windows on a lesser-equiped PC (1.83ghz C2D, Radeon 9800 Pro, 1GB RAM PC vs 1.83ghz CD, Radeon X1600, 2GB RAM Mac) and got higher resolution, more detail, and higher FPS on the PC. I also ran Half-Life 2 on the Mac using Boot Camp at higher resolution and it was smooth as butter. With Portal I tried bumping up the detail and resolution and got unplayable framerates. It is also virtually unplayable because of the inability to view through portals to see what's on the other side (I couldn't find a setting that enabled this necessary graphics option which was enabled by default when I played it on the PC).

I'm glad to see Valve porting these older games and supporting new ones on the Mac, I'm just disappointed with the performance I've seen.
post #73 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorinlynx View Post

It's called OpenGL. And the nice thing about OpenGL is that it is multiplatform; you can use nearly the same graphics code on any operating system supporting OpenGL, including Linux and Windows as well.

Apple is actually improving their OpenGL code as we speak, and it's primarily due to Steam coming!

Looks like steam is using a translator, and not OpenGL directly.

http://netkas.org/?p=435
post #74 of 77
civ4 apparently needs to be installed on a non case-sensitive partition...
I have to reinstall my system according to valve. nice.
post #75 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by SharpDefine View Post

civ4 apparently needs to be installed on a non case-sensitive partition...
I have to reinstall my system according to valve. nice.

Yes, unfortunately that does appear to be the case according to Valve's support documentation: a case-sensitive filesystem is unsupported.

It's been awhile since I've read up on this, but it seems to me that formatting your startup partition using a case-sensitive filesystem is not recommended outside of very particular situations (I can imagine a file server, for example).
post #76 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

It is also virtually unplayable because of the inability to view through portals to see what's on the other side (I couldn't find a setting that enabled this necessary graphics option which was enabled by default when I played it on the PC).

That's a bad sign because that's what happens with the unofficial Cider port of Portal when you drop down to Direct X 8. From the last post, it would seem translation is indeed going on. That explains the framerate issues too.

I guess it's time to have the view of 'oh well, it's better than nothing I suppose'. When they said tier 1 platform, I was hoping for tier 1 treatment.

They are probably focusing on just getting working versions right now though and this would be the quickest way. I already gave up waiting for HL2 on the Mac and just installed it on Windows again and it plays at maximum with 2xAA on the 9400M. People are going to me mighty mad if the Mac version ends up looking like the unofficial port because the reflections look terrible.
post #77 of 77
Just an FYI, if you purchased Torchlight via Runic's website and bought the Windows version, you can just register your key on steam and it will allow you to download the Mac version free of charge.
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
3.4GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7 / iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 6 Plus 64GB /iPad with Retina Display 64 GB
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac OS X
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › First look: Valve's Steam, Team Fortress 2 and Portal for Mac