NPD: Android phones now outsell Apple's iPhone in US - Page 6

Originally Posted by Mac Voyer

Let me be more clear. If Apple "sold" the iPhone along side its "peers" with the same "prices" and terms, in the same retail and online channels, on the same carriers, etc, I think those "peers" would be forced to close up shop the following day. Google had better thank their lucky starts there is no Verizon iPhone. In fact, they should be paying Apple to stay away.

Originally Posted by grking

...why do people buy oher phones from AT&T?

Originally Posted by Mac Voyer

For the most part, they don't. Every time I go to an AT&T store, I make a point to ask about what's selling these days. The answer is always over 70% iPhone. The rest are phones that don't carry data plans.

As for keyboards, every manufacturer know for the keyboard is scrambling to produce a slate. Have you seen the new BB OS? It is all about the touchscreen, not the keyboard. The Palm fans on Precentral are clamoring for a virtual keyboard. Prominent Droid owners seem to never use the physical keyboard. Go ahead and build your business on a phone that does not look or function like an iPhone. Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

I really don't think the majority of consumers give a rats behind whether their phone has the latest os, is a "premium phone', or whatever thing to boast about.

Originally Posted by Jetz

First with the updates. I don't know how it was on previous versions of Android. But on my Nexus One with Android 2.1, you get a notification in the window blind notification bar. Slide it down, click 'Okay' and you're done. I really don't understand why people find this difficult. Though I do understand that previous updates on some devices had carrier issues. My only complaint is that there's no auto-download function.

Next, the whole fragmentation thing. That's vastly over-exaggerated on these forums. The vast, vast majority of apps work across all handsets. And where apps might only be compatible with later versions of Android, it's really not that different than what's happening on with Apple. Think of the upcoming OS and all the hardware changes. Is every Apple app here on in, going to be capable of running on an iPhone 3G? Heck, that phone can't even absorb all the new OS features. There's some fragmentation on Android to be sure. But it's no more the death of Android than upcoming fragmentation is the death of the iPhone ecosystem. In the mobile world, which develops at an incredible pace, some fragmentation is simply inevitable.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

I really don't think the majority of consumers give a rats behind whether their phone has the latest os, is a "premium phone', or whatever thing to boast about.

Originally Posted by jragosta

Except for one thing. People like you are running bragging that Android phones run Flash. Ignoring the fact that it's a blatant lie and if you were honest you would say "Adobe says that they'll have a version out for Android some day", what's going to happen when those people try to run Flash and it won't run? After they scream about their stupid phones, they'll find someone who tells them to upgrade the OS. Then, after the can't find the OS upgrade because their carrier or handset maker never made it available, they'll scream some more.

If people don't upgrade their OS, then all (there are probably a few hundred, anyway) the (theoretically) Flash capable phones out there today are completely irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Jetz

From the comments here, it seems like some of you have never touched an Android device.

First with the updates. I don't know how it was on previous versions of Android. But on my Nexus One with Android 2.1, you get a notification in the window blind notification bar. Slide it down, click 'Okay' and you're done. I really don't understand why people find this difficult. Though I do understand that previous updates on some devices had carrier issues. My only complaint is that there's no auto-download function.

Next, the whole fragmentation thing. That's vastly over-exaggerated on these forums. The vast, vast majority of apps work across all handsets. And where apps might only be compatible with later versions of Android, it's really not that different than what's happening on with Apple. Think of the upcoming OS and all the hardware changes. Is every Apple app here on in, going to be capable of running on an iPhone 3G? Heck, that phone can't even absorb all the new OS features. There's some fragmentation on Android to be sure. But it's no more the death of Android than upcoming fragmentation is the death of the iPhone ecosystem. In the mobile world, which develops at an incredible pace, some fragmentation is simply inevitable.

One valid criticism though is app quality. Android Market is just not there yet. But it's hard to say if it'll stay that way permanently. If you own an Android handset, you can actually see how quickly the Market is going. The choice of apps is getting better. And it's not just a quality control issue. A lot of the apps coming to Android Market are simply apps ported over from the iPhone. So quality isn't necessarily the problem. It's the rate at which they are getting ported over. A lot of the most popular apps aren't quite there yet.

But on the app side, the biggest ones I think are the Google Apps. They're the ones that people want for Android and the iPhone. Where would the iPhone be without Google search, youtube and Google Maps? I think the big question mark is what Google is going to do with all its newer stuff. Will it make Google Maps Navigation available on the iPhone? Or will that be an Android exclusive? These apps are huge differentiators. Being able to pass on a GPS to get free turn-by-turn navigation in a phone they are buying is a big selling point for a lot of regular people. Heck, this is why some of the Nokia 'navigation' phones sell so well globally. And that's just maps. What will Google with other new features in the future?

On to some other points:

1) Apple doesn't care about market share.

Maybe for their other product lines. But not for the iPhone. Market share drives everything. They only have one phone. And that means only one way to popularize their OS. This can be a good thing. It drives them to make a really, really solid product obviously. Or it could have terrible
consequences. Remember what happened the last time they refused to license their OS? And If Android becomes the Windows of smartphones, guess what happens to all that developer talent that develops great apps for the iPhone.

2) Verizon needs Apple more than Apple needs Verizon.

We'll see. I don't see mass migration between Verizon and AT&T yet. But clearly, Android is taking off, because Apple chooses to restrict itself to AT&T. And it's not just Verizon. T-Mobile would have been easy for them. Nokia's upcoming N8 will be quint band with T-Mobile's AWS/Band IV spectrum. I am hard pressed to believe Apple could not have pulled off the same thing.

Ultimately for most wireless customers, what matters is network quality and plans, not the handset per se. No matter how powerful an iPhone, it does not matter if the phone is not available on the best network in your region or the carrier that offers the price you want. A good example would be Canada. Our three national carriers and their discount brands all carry the iPhone. But there's a lot of folks like me passing on the iPhone. Why? Because we'd rather take up plans with the new entrants who have significantly lower prices. And they operate on AWS/Band IV. So I chose a Nexus One on Wind over an iPhone on Rogers.

Time will tell if this strategy pays off for Apple. If the rumours are true, then Apple is stuck with AT&T until 2012. That's a long time in the cellphone business. And that's a lot of customers who will be experience an Android handset by then. And they aren't going to be trying out a Droid/Milestone or a Hero. They'll be getting an X10, a Droid Incredible or EVO 4G. And even better handsets coming out over the next 2 years. We'll know in two years if getting that massive subsidy from AT&T was worthwhile for Apple in the long run. Personally, I think they should have at least opened it up to T-Mo this summer and then moved on Verizon next year. But hopefully Jobs is smarter than me!

Originally Posted by Jetz

First with the updates. I don't know how it was on previous versions of Android. But on my Nexus One with Android 2.1, you get a notification in the window blind notification bar. Slide it down, click 'Okay' and you're done. I really don't understand why people find this difficult.

Next, the whole fragmentation thing. That's vastly over-exaggerated on these forums.

But on the app side, the biggest ones I think are the Google Apps. They're the ones that people want for Android and the iPhone. Where would the iPhone be without Google search, youtube and Google Maps?

Originally Posted by Napoleon_PhoneApart

When my girlfriend flew out to see me in February (I'm in the DC area), she was pointing out to me all the people who were using iPhone. Frankly, it surprised and shocked me at how prevalent the iPhone is in my neck of the woods.

Originally Posted by AsianBob

In what way am I overestimating the process? That's exactly the process one goes through when an update is made available. The screen comes up, you press "Update Now", wait 5 - 10 minutes (depending on the size of the update) and it's done. All OTA. Without the need to plug the device in to another computer.

I was sitting at Denny's (cheap 2 am food is cheap 2 am food) when I did my 2.0.1 update. It was done in the time it took for our waitress to bring our drinks. My 2.0.1 to 2.1 update popped up when I was driving home from work one day.

And "rarely" is odd word to use here. Does Apple not fall under that category too? One major update a year with a few smaller patches, if needed, sprinkled throughout.

And I'm not apologizing for the manufacturers here. Us users, if anything, are the ones most vocal about the slow pace of the updates for the phones with custom UIs on them.

As Android gains in popularity and maturity, Google will most likely slow down on pace it's updating at and settle into a schedule more like Apples. Which in turn will allow the manufacturers the time they need. I'm willing to continue giving them the benefit of the doubt here.

Originally Posted by Mac Voyer

For the most part, they don't. Every time I go to an AT&T store, I make a point to ask about what's selling these days. The answer is always over 70% iPhone. The rest are phones that don't carry data plans.

As for keyboards, every manufacturer know for the keyboard is scrambling to produce a slate. Have you seen the new BB OS? It is all about the touchscreen, not the keyboard. The Palm fans on Precentral are clamoring for a virtual keyboard. Prominent Droid owners seem to never use the physical keyboard. Go ahead and build your business on a phone that does not look or function like an iPhone. Good luck with that.

Originally Posted by hill60

Yeah I blame Apple for killing my sales skills, I've worked for years selling phones in retail people coming in and asking for iPhone's is turning me into an order taker, there's no real challenge any more, my sales skills are getting rusty.

btw our walls are festooned with advertising for other phones, there are sixteen Nokia's on display, yet people just walk in and ask for iPhones.

I still sell other phones but iPhone's just sell themselves, mainly through word of mouth.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

I'm not really sure, what the hell this has to do with flash, but, amuse yourself I guess.

Originally Posted by jragosta

Let's see.

You wrote "I really don't think the majority of consumers give a rats behind whether their phone has the latest os"

I explained exactly why consumers will care.

You posted the above inane drivel.

You can't even remember what you wrote over the course of a couple of hours? No wonder your posts look like they were written by a team of chimpanzees.

Originally Posted by ogmudbone

I'm guessing you don't work at a Verizon store lol.

Originally Posted by hill60

Yeah I blame Apple for killing my sales skills, I've worked for years selling phones in retail people coming in and asking for iPhone's is turning me into an order taker, there's no real challenge any more, my sales skills are getting rusty.

btw our walls are festooned with advertising for other phones, there are sixteen Nokia's on display, yet people just walk in and ask for iPhones.

I still sell other phones but iPhone's just sell themselves, mainly through word of mouth.

Originally Posted by hill60

No, I live in a country that dumped the non-multitasking, backward CDMA networks years ago.

Vodafone Australia, although Vodafone does have a 45% stake in Verizon Wireless and are getting pretty pissed at having nothing much to show for their investment.

Originally Posted by ogmudbone

CDMA is actually a more advanced technology than GSM, at least it terms of complexity. CDMA tends to be faster, with better call quality, and much better suited for countries like the US, where GSM is popular in Europe and the rest of the world. As for which is more future proof CDMA can do internet calls and data, as internet calls are data.

Originally Posted by mark2005

Be careful - iPhone is getting plenty of overseas sales, while Android hasn't really made a big move offshore.

So in a US-only survey, the two could be comparable, with both in the range of about 3m units per quarter.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

I'm not really sure, what the hell this has to do with flash, but, amuse yourself I guess. Was that cathartic?



excellent BS.

Originally Posted by jragosta

1. You need to realize that just because something works on YOUR phone doesn't mean it will work on every phone.

2. Furthermore, 2.1 is the latest version, yet you're claiming that it automatically notified you of an update and installed without difficulty? Since 2.1 is the latest version, you're lying. Or maybe you're trying to make us believe the same Google FUD that has been thrown around for so long.

3. Go back and read the thread about fragmentation and the fact that only a tiny number of Android phones have been updated to the latest version - with fragmentation being at the root of the problem.

So who do we believe? The thousands of Android phone owners who haven't upgraded because their is no upgrade available from their phone supplier or some anonymous person who's lying about the one issue we can verify? Hmmmmm.

Originally Posted by hill60

Yeah I blame Apple for killing my sales skills, I've worked for years selling phones in retail people coming in and asking for iPhone's is turning me into an order taker, there's no real challenge any more, my sales skills are getting rusty.

btw our walls are festooned with advertising for other phones, there are sixteen Nokia's on display, yet people just walk in and ask for iPhones.

I still sell other phones but iPhone's just sell themselves, mainly through word of mouth.

Originally Posted by Foo2

The Nexus One is hardly representative of the diverse Android marketplace. What you describe is difficult for the vast majority of users to do, simply because the option to update is provided when a given carrier makes an update available for one's specific model of handset. Android updates aren't automatically available to users when Google releases the update and may never be made available.

Originally Posted by Foo2

Google technologies are all replaceable.

Originally Posted by Jetz

Who pee'd in your cornflakes? I was just relating my experience.

1) Yes, I realize that just because something works on my phone that it might not necessarily work on every Android handset. Did I say that it did or is that your Pavlovian iFan instinct kicking in?

2) I was talking about updates in general. App updates come over the air. Is there a reason to believe that OS updates are delivered differently? Can you please post a link that OS updates are delivered differently from app updates?

3) Just because the carriers have f****d things up doesn't mean the process if broken. OTA is the best way to deliver updates. Even Apple is moving in that direction. I am sure Google is learning from the experience. We've seen updates slow down, which makes it easier for the OEMs to slap their skins on and pass it on. I am sure Google will figure out a way to deal with the carriers on updates eventually.

But it seems to me that a large, large part of the whole fragmentation complaint isn't based on users not updating at all. It's based on the fact that there are so many 1.5, 1.6 devices out there. And most of those aren't upgradeable to 2.1. But that I would argue is a function of Android being in its early days with rapid changes on hardware and software side. Now that Android's catching up, I doubt this will be the case much longer. 2.1 handsets will dominate in 2010.

By the way, have you ever used an Android device, or is it surfing the internets that makes you such an instant expert (and pompous ass)?

Originally Posted by Jetz

BTW, do you (or anybody else) know if there's any free turn-by-turn navigation services on the iPhone? That's the number one thing that people I know who have iPhones ask about. It'd be nice to point them in the right direction.

Originally Posted by OC4Theo

MacDonalds has sold billions of hamburgers, and so has increase in overweight people and diabetes.

Chevy outsells Lexus, Mercedes and BMW combined. Yet, no owner of these will ever trade their car in for a Chevy. And so it goes, best things come in small numbers.

Apple is never meant for the masses, only for the few who want the best. And iPhone is the best. It is not a smartphone, it is a SMARTERphone for the few intelligent people who want the best.

If Android is so good, why is Verizon giving them away? The clear answer is that not many people think it is any good.If AT&T ever do 2 for 1 for the iPhone, they will need the US Army to control the crowd of Android owners fighting to get an iPhone!

Originally Posted by AsianBob

You previous post was excellent (as is this one). I'm afraid it's points are going to be lost on the fact that this is an Apple site. Some are out to attack the competition for the sake of it not being Apple...

I can confirm that the notification bar and pop-up window is exactly how Android handsets get their OS updates. I have a Droid and that's how it was done going from 2.0 to 2.0.1 and then 2.1. I have two friends using the Droid Incredible and when they got a small update, that's how it was done. My old college roommate bought a Droid Eris and when he got his update to go from 1.5 to 1.6, that's how it was done.

Now that 1.5 is the lowest mass-used Android OS version, I can confidentally say that this is how updates work across all Android OSs.

OTA updates are very convenient, fast, and simple to do. What I would love to see in the future is a mash of the Apple and Google ways of doing updates.

I believe the bolded part hits the nail in the head regarding jragosta. It seems that he read one article, posted on this site, no less, and then added his own spin on it (having to hunt for update files somewhere) and preaches that as the word of how Android works. No Android experience needed there!

jragosta, I believe it was your words that accuse other articles out there of spreading FUD against Apple without checking to confirm their stories. Looks like you have become your own complaint...

Originally Posted by Jetz

Who pee'd in your cornflakes? I was just relating my experience.

1) Yes, I realize that just because something works on my phone that it might not necessarily work on every Android handset. Did I say that it did or is that your Pavlovian iFan instinct kicking in?

2) I was talking about updates in general. App updates come over the air. Is there a reason to believe that OS updates are delivered differently? Can you please post a link that OS updates are delivered differently from app updates?

3) Just because the carriers have f****d things up doesn't mean the process if broken. OTA is the best way to deliver updates. Even Apple is moving in that direction. I am sure Google is learning from the experience. We've seen updates slow down, which makes it easier for the OEMs to slap their skins on and pass it on. I am sure Google will figure out a way to deal with the carriers on updates eventually.

Originally Posted by Jetz

BTW, do you (or anybody else) know if there's any free turn-by-turn navigation services on the iPhone? That's the number one thing that people I know who have iPhones ask about. It'd be nice to point them in the right direction.

Originally Posted by jragosta

OK. so you WERE lying when you said that OS updates worked that way. You were just speculating.

Then you admit that the carriers have messed it up so it doesn't work, anyway.

The fact is that the published reports say that very few Android phones ever have the OS updated because of the fragmentation issue. You haven't refuted that in any way. All you did is destroy any credibility you might have had by lying and then admitting that you lied.

As for Google figuring out a way to deal with the carriers, I've been using computers long enough that I don't believe vaporware promises - especially when they don't even come from the vendor. The fact is that the problem exists and there's no sign of a fix on the horizon. Period.

Originally Posted by AsianBob

OTA updates are very convenient, fast, and simple to do. What I would love to see in the future is a mash of the Apple and Google ways of doing updates.

Originally Posted by AsianBob

If you are talking about something like Google Nav, then the iPhone doesn't have any free programs that I'm aware of. My roommate bought Navigon for $50 on the App Store and I think there's a TomTom version too. Not sure if Garmin has one or not... But each costs at least $50.

Originally Posted by Stevie

We prefer to buy our apps at the App Store, thankyouverymuch. You get what you pay for.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

I've encountered that poster before too so apparently I'm a liar and anti apple too I suppose.

Guess you gotta be careful about saying your opinion and sharing your personal experience if it isn't expressing your undying love of apple or, get out your flak jacket!

Originally Posted by Jetz

I dunno. I don't know a single iPhone owner that doesn't think that connecting to iTunes isn't a pain in the six. Anyway, I think Apple gets this. If I understand correctly, they are moving to an over the air model on the enterprise side. Now if only they would do that for every consumer.

Yes like Google Nav. These days, I find that a lot of people I know, when shopping for a phone, want the navigation feature so they don't have to buy/use a standalone GPS. And if you are going to get a data plan anyway, then some kind of free nav service would make sense. Though, using Navigon or TomTom or Garmin apps have their benefits to be sure.

Originally Posted by Stevie

Your mistake is to assume that discussion here is the normal give and take of factually based information sharing.

Instead, there are different rules to follow. Factual information that shows Apple in anything but a superlative light is discouraged. Many people come here to bask in the warm glow of Apple's cult-like distortion field. They want to hear great things to justify their decision to eschew the popular platform in favor of Apple.

They don't want to know facts. They don't want to discuss. They want to feel that they made the right choice by joining up. And to feel good because of it.

Don't burst the bubble, or you will get smeared.