or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple responds to Android sales, says NPD data doesn't tell whole story
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple responds to Android sales, says NPD data doesn't tell whole story - Page 6

post #201 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yes! Obviously they are worth it to the millions of people who buy them!

To turn it around, they must not be worth it to the multi-millions who don't buy them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Shouldn't those people who want to, have the choice to buy a "best of breed" product?

Anyone is entitled to buy anything they want, I haven't ever said otherwise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Or must we all settle for the devices you deem to be fairly priced?

No, exactly the opposite, I have been asking what is the issue with phones being available cheaply, don't people deserve to be able to afford to purchase a piece of technology, if you read most the posts here, no. Purchase an iPhone if you want, it is your money, just don't go abusing someone if they decide to purchase a Nokia, RIMM, or Android phone, they purchased it because they wanted to.
post #202 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

I'm still surprised Apple/AT&T hasn't done one to even further increase its marketshare and profits.

If you truly paid attention to Apple and their success, you would understand there is very little corrilation between marketshare and profits.

They aren't doing such promotions because they don't have to.
post #203 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

But either way you look at it, Android is certainly a real competitor and certainly the existence of Android seriously undermines Adobe's anti-trust arguments.

Hmm, it's almost as if Apple doesn't want to have overwhelming marketshare.

Go figure...
post #204 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post

If it wasn't profitable, then why has Verizon kept it going for years on their BlackBerries and then extend it to all smartphones? They're the largest cell phone carrier in the US and I think BOGO has a large hand in that.

largest in volume or profit? I'll take the latter...
post #205 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

If Apple does not care about market share and volumen, then why did they drop the price of the original iPhone by hundreds of dollars?

Despite what the anti-Apple trolls type Apple does care about market share. Just not to the point of sacrificing profitability and brand value that desperation moves lie BOGOF represent.
post #206 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

You'd buy whatever Jobs tells you to, no? .. And that just so happens to be exactly how Apple likes it. You are Apple's ideal customer. No questions asked.

No one is buying stuff because "jobs tells them to[sic]"

People buy the things Apple produces because they want to. What in that concept is so hard to grasp?

And until the competition steps up to the level of Apple in integration and the user experience, I too will be little interested in anything else.

The moment Apple stops delivering the goods, or someone does it better I will have no problem switching. So far no one has given me a compelling reason to do so. And Android doesn't cut it for me. If I were more imbedded in the google world that might be enough to sway, but thankfully I am not.

Quote:
But listen, try removing your blinders long enough to see what the trend really is now that Android is out full bore. Watch and see how Android devices further penetrate the market from every possible angle from here on out. No? Android-Apple-RIM

Once you get past the techie geeks or Verizon zealots that blindly believe V marketing, Android sales will flop. They are already having to resort to two for one deals to artificially prop up demand!

It's desktop Linux all over again. Cue the next round of angry and confused geeks that lack a basic understanding of human nature of non-geeks.
post #207 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

Despite what the anti-Apple trolls type Apple does care about market share. Just not to the point of sacrificing profitability and brand value that desperation moves lie BOGOF represent.

I don't see any difference between Verizon doing BOGO and AT&T massively subsidizing the iphone to the tune that they needed to issue a profit margin warning.
post #208 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by nizy View Post

Need I remind you all that Apple has been a successful and very profitable pc maker not by high volume of sales, but by higher margin, lower volume products. Its a very different business model, and market share is not as important to its success.

apparently you do because the marketshare fixaters swarm in full force over these stories.

"ooh, my e-penis is larger than yours"

Sigh...
post #209 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You say this like it is a bad thing, are you saying you think people with less money than yourself, don't derserve to own a smartphone?

Or are you saying an iPhone is really five times better than a Nokia smartphone with an unsubsidised price of around 100 ?


I'm waiting for the day when you will own a variety of "phone" devices, which can/will be activated when you are in proximity.

You could use different nice phones whenever you wanted. One for work, one for vacations, some scattered around the house like landlines. You could have your waterproof/heavy duty phone for the beach, while using your regular nice looking phone for evening engagements.

One phone for all uses seems limiting. One phone for all customers for all uses seems silly.
post #210 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

I'm waiting for the day when you will own a variety of "phone" devices, which can/will be activated when you are in proximity.

You could use different nice phones whenever you wanted. One for work, one for vacations, some scattered around the house like landlines. You could have your waterproof/heavy duty phone for the beach, while using your regular nice looking phone for evening engagements.

One phone for all uses seems limiting. One phone for all customers for all uses seems silly.

Spoken like a true geek who is completely out of touch with the real world.

Most people just one want device that works reliably wherever they are. The idea of having to keep 5 different phones charged up and changing from one to the other depending on whether you're at home, at the mall or at work is a crazy idea.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #211 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

I'm waiting for the day when you will own a variety of "phone" devices, which can/will be activated when you are in proximity.

You could use different nice phones whenever you wanted. One for work, one for vacations, some scattered around the house like landlines. You could have your waterproof/heavy duty phone for the beach, while using your regular nice looking phone for evening engagements.

One phone for all uses seems limiting. One phone for all customers for all uses seems silly.

That's a pretty nice idea.
post #212 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

If they didn't have that AT&T exclusive, Android wouldn't have been able to get a toe into the US market. iPhones would have been everywhere. But they made their choice. And the consequences are playing out.

ugh - without that exclusive there would be no iPhone and verizon users would still have hobbled phones like blackberries with no wi-fi. All in blissful ignorance. We get to have these (ultimately) pointless discussions because of that agreement, not in spite of it.

There would be no android. Google didn't do android out of the goodness of their heart, they correctly see portable devices as being more relevant than PC's in the long run and they didn't want to get frozen out of mobile search. Which for google is code for advertising, which at the end of the day is what Google is - an engine for eyeball impressions.

I laugh at the same people who are anti flash for advertising yet think googles farts are the nectar of the gods...
post #213 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

Why hasn't any such data been released yet?

Do pirated free apps generate revenue?

Oh well, it works for engish rules (double negative) - too bad...
post #214 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

I think that the newest, most fully-featured, coolest, most capable new phones will all be Android OS.

Depends on your perspective of fully featured and capable are.

If it's having an endless checklist of features and the capability to be mediocre in its experience for everyone, it will be desktop Linux all over again
post #215 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I don't see any difference between Verizon doing BOGO and AT&T massively subsidizing the iphone to the tune that they needed to issue a profit margin warning.

If I'm not mistaken it was a warning that projected profits (that still beat V) weren't going to be quite as large as previously anticipated.

Yup, a real pickle of a problem to have. Esp. since it was a quarter when AT&T had a stale phone and everyone else had multiple new models.

Where's that "Apple is domed" picture?
post #216 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Why is Steve still working?

The only thing I can think of is that Steve has an inner dissatisfaction with the way things are and an overriding compulsion to make them better.

From my perspective, Steve, thanks for the ride!

You've made my life better!

You've helped change the world!

I wish you well, and as an AAPL shareholder, I say screw the Bozos and keep on, keepin' on!

Excellent post and very insightful. He touched on as much at the iPhone launch (and iPod launch, now that I think about it).
post #217 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

If I'm not mistaken it was a warning that projected profits (that still beat V) weren't going to be quite as large as previously anticipated.

Yup, a real pickle of a problem to have. Esp. since it was a quarter when AT&T had a stale phone and everyone else had multiple new models.

Where's that "Apple is domed" picture?

It was a profit margin warning and Verizon Wireless has a higher profit margin than AT&T Wireless. Wow --- a real pickle for Verizon to have --- a higher profit margin without selling a single iphone and without issuing a single profit margin warning.

Much better for Verizon to do BOGO and still able to maintain their profit margin.
I never said that there is a "doomed" picture.

Verizon won't have sold that many blackberries and androids if they didn't do BOGO --- much as AT&T won't have sold that many iphones if they didn't massively subsidize the iphone. There is no difference between the two.

Hell the iphone wouldn't have even moved in many European countries if the European carriers didn't have zero dollar iphone deals.
post #218 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Hell the iphone wouldn't have even moved in many European countries if the European carriers didn't have zero dollar iphone deals.

Very true. The iPhone is heavily subsidized outside the US. And that's not a bad thing. Sells more iPhones. Good for AAPL. And good for the customers who buy iPhones.
post #219 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

I don't see any difference between Verizon doing BOGO and AT&T massively subsidizing the iphone to the tune that they needed to issue a profit margin warning.

AT&T issued the warning because they were about to be hit with a double whammy at the introduction of the iPhone 3G, not because the phone subsidy was so large.

AT&T was also still paying a share of the monthly subscriber data fee for the original iPhone. So for the year after the intro of iPhone 3G, they would be paying both each quarter. That would lead to higher costs relative to the year before (when they were not paying subsidies at all for iPhone).
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #220 of 226
it is unfortunate that Apple has the ball and chain AT&T.. Iphone sales would be massive if they open iphone to other phone companies. This seems to be a repeat of Apple Microsoft all over.... I have great respect for Apple but I do not get this continued reliance on AT&T.... AT&T sucks..
post #221 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

AT&T issued the warning because they were about to be hit with a double whammy at the introduction of the iPhone 3G, not because the phone subsidy was so large.

AT&T was also still paying a share of the monthly subscriber data fee for the original iPhone. So for the year after the intro of iPhone 3G, they would be paying both each quarter. That would lead to higher costs relative to the year before (when they were not paying subsidies at all for iPhone).

It's actually even simpler than that. It's a cash flow issue. I don't know the actual numbers, so I'll use the following for examples. You can plug in whatever numbers you wish - the general principle is unchanged.

Let's say AT&T pays $500 per iPhone. They collect $199 from the customer. So on the day the customer receives his iPhone, AT&T is in the hole by $301. The more iPhones that are sold, the more AT&T is in the hole. Then, let's say that they receive an average of $60 per month from the subscriber and their out of pocket costs are $30 per month. That means that their their margin (revenues less DIRECT costs of supplying mobile service) are $30 per month. It's only in the 11th month that their margins put them into the black for that customer.

If AT&T had a surprisingly large number of customers (such as the 1 million iPhone 3GS customers in the first weekend), that means a HUGE expense for AT&T. In the end, it will mean greater profits, but in the short run, it probably means increased borrowing, no dividends, or other cash-saving methods.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #222 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005 View Post

AT&T issued the warning because they were about to be hit with a double whammy at the introduction of the iPhone 3G, not because the phone subsidy was so large.

AT&T was also still paying a share of the monthly subscriber data fee for the original iPhone. So for the year after the intro of iPhone 3G, they would be paying both each quarter. That would lead to higher costs relative to the year before (when they were not paying subsidies at all for iPhone).

AT&T only sold 2-3 millions of original iphones --- it would be a rounding error on the profit margin for a company that size.
post #223 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoebetech View Post

You mean to tell me that offshoring jobs (like the manufacturing jobs that help put the iphone together) is ethical for the American worker? hmmmm.

You have an odd sense of ethics. Did Apple "offshore" those jobs and what does that mean to you? Did you want to work building electronics for the wage the Chinese find reasonable? "Would it be "unethical" if only very rich people in the US (and elsewhere) could afford to buy electronics? Would it be more "ethical" to practice protectionism? Do you think more wages are generated by the work done for Apple overseas or by the work done for Apple in the US by US workers? Doesn't it make more sense for highly trained American workers to get paid for engineering, designing, and writing software for Apple products than to do assembly work that we are not very efficient at? Have you ever taken an economics course or read any books?
Whatever you think of China as a country and culture is less relevant than what a company does there. What would be unethical is if Apple hires companies to do work for them in China and then doesn't pay attention to how workers and the environment is treated. This is not the case.
As companies go, Apple is a leader in many areas including ethics.
post #224 of 226
Stages of denial by iPhone users in response to Android sales:

Sage 1: The numbers are skewed because...
Doesn't represent world wide sales!
2 for 1 sales are cheating!

Stage 2: Acceptance that the numbers are accurate but rationalizes that the iPhone is still superior because...
iPhone is still more profitable!
Android is on multiple cheap phones, iPhone OS is only on the best phone!

Stage 3: Justification as to why...
iPhone 4 was coming out in summer!
AT&T is horrible, dropped calls, poor speeds, they need the iPhone on Verizon!

Stage 4: The user stops caring goes back to enjoying their iPhone...
Hey guys I just downloading an App called "Have2P Restroom Locator" it tells me where the nearest restrooms are to my current GPS location, even gives me cleanliness reviews of each toilet. I don't know how I lived without it.
post #225 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogmudbone View Post

Stages of denial by iPhone users in response to Android sales:

Sage 1: The numbers are skewed because...
Doesn't represent world wide sales!
2 for 1 sales are cheating!

Stage 2: Acceptance that the numbers are accurate but rationalizes that the iPhone is still superior because...
iPhone is still more profitable!
Android is on multiple cheap phones, iPhone OS is only on the best phone!

Stage 3: Justification as to why...
iPhone 4 was coming out in summer!
AT&T is horrible, dropped calls, poor speeds, they need the iPhone on Verizon!

Stage 4: The user stops caring goes back to enjoying their iPhone...
Hey guys I just downloading an App called "Have2P Restroom Locator" it tells me where the nearest restrooms are to my current GPS location, even gives me cleanliness reviews of each toilet. I don't know how I lived without it.

22 posts and you get that insight, well some of us should be just brilliant

i don't care about the android "universe' apple has the world i want to be in
i like blue you like red
well good for you
and when google can do retail like apple, well.....we can then talk
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
Reply
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
Reply
post #226 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

22 posts and you get that insight, well some of us should be just brilliant

i don't care about the android "universe' apple has the world i want to be in
i like blue you like red
well good for you
and when google can do retail like apple, well.....we can then talk


To add as well, when Goggle can do tech and customer support in a level that reaches Microsoft or Apple , I would be glad to listen. I have the utmost respect for the Android platform, but I don't trust Google or the phone manufacturers and phone companies to support the customer when Android problems starts rushing in.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Apple responds to Android sales, says NPD data doesn't tell whole story