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Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign

post #1 of 448
Thread Starter 
Adobe on Thursday responded to Steve Jobs' "Thoughts on Flash" with an open letter of its own, and also began a new ad campaign in which the company says it "loves" Apple -- but dislikes "anybody taking away your freedom" to use the Web freely.

In a letter from Adobe cofounders Chuck Geschke and John Warnock, the chairmen asserted that a "single company" does not control the Web. They argued that Adobe's Flash technology is the market leader "because of the constant creativity and technical innovation" of the company's employees.

"We believe that Apple, by taking the opposite approach, has taken a step that could undermine this next chapter of the web -- the chapter in which mobile devices outnumber computers, any individual can be a publisher, and content is accessed anywhere and at any time," they wrote.

Warnock and Geschke said that fragmentation of the Web into "closed systems" with content applications "behind walls" will result in the loss of the creativity and innovation that has made the Internet a global revolution.

"We believe that consumers should be able to freely access their favorite content and applications, regardless of what computer they have, what browser they like, or what device suits their needs," the letter reads. "No company -- no matter how big or how creative -- should dictate what you can create, how you create it, or what you can experience on the web."



Starting Thursday, Adobe began a new advertising campaign based on its beliefs, and intended to counter Apple's attack on Flash. Banners across the Web with the Adobe logo display in big, bold letters "We [Heart] Apple."

It continues: "What we don't love is anybody taking away your freedom to choose what you create, how you create it, and what you experience on the web." The ads feature a "Learn More" button that takes visitors to a page on Adobe's Web site that says "We [Heart] Choice" and links to the letter from Warnock and Geschke.

"We believe open markets that allow developers, publishers, and consumers to make their own choices about how they create, distribute, and access content are essential to progress," the promotional site reads. "That's why we actively support technologies like HTML4, HTML5, CSS, and H.264, in addition to our own technologies."

In addition to advertisements on major tech blogs like Engadget, Adobe has also bought a full-page print ad in Thursday's Washington Post.

Adobe's new campaign is in direct response to a letter posted by Jobs, Apple's co-founder, late last month. The lengthy note from Jobs, suggested Flash is a lingering relic from a dying era. The chief executive said that though the Web format was created for the PC, it "falls short" in the mobile era, dominated by low-power devices, touchscreen interfaces and open Web standards. He also said that Flash is responsible for most crashes in the Mac OS X operating system.

Almost immediately after the letter was published, Adobe CEO Shantanu Narayen responded by saying that Adobe views the world as multi-platform and open, while Apple does not. He also said that Mac OS X crashes involving Flash are the fault of "the Apple operating system," and said the suggestion that Flash drains battery life on mobile devices is "patently false."

Apple has embraced HTML5 in its mobile devices powered by the iPhone OS, which include the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad. The exclusion of Flash from Apple's mobile platform has been a matter of considerable debate, but many major Web sites have turned to HTML5 since the release of the iPad.

While Apple has kept Flash off of its Web browsers, it also recently changed the iPhone developer agreement to ban third-party tools that would allow software to be ported from other formats, like Adobe Flash, to native iPhone OS software. Jobs said such tools would result in substandard applications on the Apple-controlled App Store.

Apple's changes to its developer agreement could result in an antitrust inquiry from the U.S. federal government. The Department of Justice and Federal Trade Commission have reportedly begun looking into the matter after receiving complaints from developers and Adobe.
post #2 of 448
You got to love wars between companies
post #3 of 448
¨And in this corner, weighing in at 240 pounds...the challenger from Cupertino, California...¨
post #4 of 448
I'm so glad I bought a new 13" MacBook Pro that plays flash rather than an iPad that doesn't.
For $300 more I got the whole kit and kaboodle.
post #5 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

but many major Web sites have turned to HTML5 since the release of the iPad.

Thus this letter.
post #6 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

I'm so glad I bought a new 13" MacBook Pro that plays flash rather than an iPad that doesn't.
For $300 more I got the whole kit and kaboodle.

Apple is too!
post #7 of 448
wow this must be hurting adobe
post #8 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

In a letter from Adobe cofounders Chuck Geschke and John Warnock, the chairmen asserted that a "single company" does not control the Web.

I wonder if Adobe realizes how hypocritical they're being.

That statement is exactly what Apple is pushing for. Open standards that no one company can control.

Adobe, OTOH, wants to force people to use Flash even if they don't want to. (Obviously, they're not winning that battle wrt Apple).

If Adobe really practiced what they preach, they'd have no complaint with Apple. After all, if one company shouldn't control the web, it should be entirely Apple's choice to either support Flash or not - and then customers would decide who wins.

And that, of course, ignores the fact that there is STILL no version of flash that would run on iPhones even if Apple let it.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #9 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
but many major Web sites have turned to HTML5 since the release of the iPad.

Really ? Which one's- Virgin airlines?
Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, porn most definitely hasn't .
post #10 of 448
Meanwhile, about Adobe's quality control on Mac products ... Adobe's own support blog is inundated with pleas for help and masses of users reporting serious issues with CS5! I keep getting messages telling me it can't run correctly as Quicktime is missing. This on a Mac Pro with full Final Cut Studio! Sheesh! Oh, and the 'intelligent fill' touted in the teasers for PS CS5 as so amazing... it barely works on most images ... their examples are very carefully selected to work. If this is why you are thinking of upgrading test it first!
Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
Reply
Use duckduckgo.com with Safari, not Google Search
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
Reply
post #11 of 448
why is Adobe criticizing Apple for not supporting a product that doesn't exist?
post #12 of 448
Hope apple hangs tough. As apple sends out it's programming SDK for iPhone for free with exciting new technologies every year, adobe would be at their bank counting cash for the +$1000 forkover fee to develop apps. Adobe, because they are mac biggots, would implement these exciting technologies probably 2-3 years after apple.

Adobe please quit writing your childish letters and make flash work on mobile devices.
post #13 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I wonder if Adobe realizes how hypocritical they're being.

That statement is exactly what Apple is pushing for. Open standards that no one company can control.

Adobe, OTOH, wants to force people to use Flash even if they don't want to. (Obviously, they're not winning that battle wrt Apple).

If Adobe really practiced what they preach, they'd have no complaint with Apple. After all, if one company shouldn't control the web, it should be entirely Apple's choice to either support Flash or not - and then customers would decide who wins.

And that, of course, ignores the fact that there is STILL no version of flash that would run on iPhones even if Apple let it.

i agree...

they must be really desperate...we love apple? what the f?

bye bye flash...
post #14 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I wonder if Adobe realizes how hypocritical they're being.

??? Meanwhile Steve Jobs' Disney website it chock full of FLASH.
post #15 of 448
.........
post #16 of 448
Apple loves Adobe too.

What they don't love is anyone a creating resource hogging, battery draining lowest common denominator technology that creates a sub-par experience for the consumer.
post #17 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Really ? Which one's- Virgin airlines?
Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, porn most definitely hasn't .

Hulu doesn't work on any mobile device ... bad example.
post #18 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Really ? Which one's- Virgin airlines?
Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, porn most definitely hasn't .

Are you always uninformed, TechStud? Don't answer that, rhetorical question.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/
post #19 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

I'm so glad I bought a new 13" MacBook Pro that plays flash rather than an iPad that doesn't.
For $300 more I got the whole kit and kaboodle.

What does this have to do with the article?
post #20 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Thus this letter.

A major British newspaper's (the Independent) website not only uses flash
throughout but also embeds advertising links in the text every so
often so you can't copy and paste the text into Mail (you have to pay
to be able to e-mail an article from their website)
post #21 of 448
Grow up Adobe, next you will be signing you ads with happy faces and tear drop emotives. Apple has publicly challenged your company to put your coders to work and produce a product that runs on mobile devices. What have your done these past 3 years is ignored the future of technology and kept Flash performance on Windows PCs your priority. Apple has publicly called you out on this and you get all victim like telling the world how you really love Apple but you don't like be bullied. How lame!!!
post #22 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Are you always uninformed, TechStud? Don't answer that, rhetorical question.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Hulu doesn't work on any mobile device ... bad example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brantdevlin View Post

What does this have to do with the article?

Postulant- dude I have no idea what you're talking about.

So are you saying that Apple supports Flash for the web now and just not for mobile devices?
post #23 of 448
Sorry to swear but... what a bunch of assholes!
post #24 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Postulant- dude I have no idea what you're talking about.

So are you saying that Apple supports Flash for the web now and just not for mobile devices?

What did you say about the New York Times?
post #25 of 448
I suspect this will play into Apple's hands. More awareness of the problem. More shrugs. More movement away from Flash.
post #26 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb View Post

Grow up Adobe, next you will be signing you ads with happy faces and tear drop emotives. Apple has publicly challenged your company to put your coders to work and produce a product that runs on mobile devices. What have your done these past 3 years is ignored the future of technology and kept Flash performance on Windows PCs your priority. Apple has publicly called you out on this and you get all victim like telling the world how you really love Apple but you don't like be bullied. How lame!!!

+1 Could not have said it better.
post #27 of 448
interesting thing is that Shantanu has been shunted aside and the big guns, Chuck Geschke and John Warnock, have been brought out to defend Adobe.

Signs of desperation?
post #28 of 448
LOL! Good article. Things are heating up between the two companies.

I personally see merit in both sides, but what I don't think is wise is for Steve to have dismissed flash as a possibility in the future of iphone.

Think of it. Is the WHOLE web going to change to html5 JUST because of Steve Jobs? The fact is, if these devices get advanced enough so the experience on a mobile device is as good as on a computer, then it'll be the iphone that doesn't have the full internet.

You guys thought I was crazy when I said iphone would get multitasking but look what happened. Now I'm saying it will get Flash some day.
post #29 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by tania View Post

why is Adobe criticizing Apple for not supporting a product that doesn't exist?

Because Apple first criticized THEM for a product that doesn't exist.

Instead of giving it a chance then deciding from there, they pushed out misinformation to justify not ever even attempting to make it work. Wouldn't you be mad if you were Adobe? Especially now that Android 2.2 has been shown to run it just fine?
post #30 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

...porn most definitely hasn't .

Ah... and there we get to the crux of the furor.

FWIW, Adobe apparently has no shame. Excoriating Apple for being 'closed', the proof of which is that they won't support Adobe's PROPRIETARY format.
post #31 of 448
That is like Toyota saying "We love the American National Highway Association." What we don't love is someone interfering with your right to experience uncontrolled acceleration while on fire.
post #32 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Because Apple first criticized THEM for a product that doesn't exist.

Instead of giving it a chance then deciding from there, they pushed out misinformation to justify not ever even attempting to make it work. Wouldn't you be mad if you were Adobe? Especially now that Android 2.2 has been shown to run it just fine?

Android 2.2 has most definitely NOT been shown to run Flash 'just fine'. A couple of tightly controlled clips show it not crashing (after others that show it exploding like the 4th of July.) Hardly a consumer ready product. Pre beta at best.
And those clips do NOT show that it remains anything other than a battery suck.

Frankly, Adobe is the last entity I want representing my needs, being the #1 pusher on the internet of ads and porn.
post #33 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

What did you say about the New York Times?

NY TImes still uses Flash on the web:

http://video.nytimes.com/video/playl...115/index.html

and you were trying to say?
post #34 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

LOL! Good article. Things are heating up between the two companies.

I personally see merit in both sides, but what I don't think is wise is for Steve to have dismissed flash as a possibility in the future of iphone.

Think of it. Is the WHOLE web going to change to html5 JUST because of Steve Jobs? The fact is, if these devices get advanced enough so the experience on a mobile device is as good as on a computer, then it'll be the iphone that doesn't have the full internet.

You guys thought I was crazy when I said iphone would get multitasking but look what happened. Now I'm saying it will get Flash some day.

Actually we need something similar to flash that is open and works with mobile devices. Since adobe was only counting the money instead of getting ready for the mobile future, then let some other technologies take it over. If Adobe can get something out this year that is not a piece of junk on mobile devices, then fine. Apple will probably allow it.
post #35 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

L
Think of it. Is the WHOLE web going to change to html5 JUST because of Steve Jobs? The fact is, if these devices get advanced enough so the experience on a mobile device is as good as on a computer, then it'll be the iphone that doesn't have the full internet.
.

Um yeah, that's pretty much exactly what's happening.
And Flash is not 'the full internet'... its a proprietary cul de sac. The hubris of Adobe to claim that THEY define what the internet is.
post #36 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

I'm so glad I bought a new 13" MacBook Pro that plays flash rather than an iPad that doesn't.
For $300 more I got the whole kit and kaboodle.

I've been on an iPhone since day one of the original and on the iPad from day one as well. Haven't missed flash at all and am seriously considering just deleting it from Safari on my Quad and MBP. I had 3 crashes last week...all three a result of Flash. If Adobe can't get Flash to work on the desktop or MBP, the last thing I need is Flash crashing my iPhone and iPad.
post #37 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Android 2.2 has most definitely NOT been shown to run Flash 'just fine'. A couple of tightly controlled clips show it not crashing (after others that show it exploding like the 4th of July.) Hardly a consumer ready product. Pre beta at best.
And those clips do NOT show that it remains anything other than a battery suck.

Frankly, Adobe is the last entity I want representing my needs, being the #1 pusher on the internet of ads and porn.

I saw the video too, and it stuttered like hell... "first rendition" was the excuse. How long has Adobe been working on this?
post #38 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Really ? Which one's- Virgin airlines?
Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, porn most definitely hasn't .

Ahh, Adobe...the porn enablers...might be a great ad in the NYT.
post #39 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

Actually we need something similar to flash that is open and works with mobile devices. Since adobe was only counting the money instead of getting ready for the mobile future, then let some other technologies take it over. If Adobe can get something out this year that is not a piece of junk on mobile devices, then fine. Apple will probably allow it.

Exactly... and its called HTML5.
There is nothing critical to the web experience done by Flash that can't now be done with standards-based methods.
post #40 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Really ? Which one's- Virgin airlines?
Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, porn most definitely hasn't .

Actually from personal experience 30 percent have. 3 out of the 10 sites I go to have (porn).
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