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Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign - Page 5

post #161 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

It's not crashing. Android gives you a dialog when an app crashes.

Here's the reviewer's comment (I really don't see why he would be lying):
*Update: Just wanted to clarify, flash didnt crash here, I just accidentally hit the home button while I was really trying to hit the back button. Android users know that you get an error message if an app crashes, I know because I have a Nexus One. Theres hidden home,back, and power buttons (on the side of the prototype) u do not see in the videos/photos, sorry if that confused any readers.

The fanboi has no motive to fabricate his own version of truth after the entire webz laughed at him? Seriously?

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post #162 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garion View Post

Translation of Adobe's new anti-Apple campaign: We are now officially scared.

It's not anti-apple. Why are all the posters on here dim?
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post #163 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by masternav View Post

So. Adobe is on the record as either opposing html 5 (early-on) or trying to emasculate it as a robust and functional open standard because they rightly recognized that it would have an impact on Flash installed base - especially if Canvas is included. Can you say passive-agressive behaviors??

Then, Adobe has demonstrated that they cannot effectively support the installed base of Flash users, based on the feedback in their own forums around resource utilization - in most reported cases on the Mac and Linux platforms.

Then they trot out a pre-beta builder paltform which they claim will allow developers to develop once release across all platforms - which is, I think where you get your questions.

So the Adobe business model is to lock-in developers to their own product (Flash) and compromise any competing system, standard (open or otherwise) or toolset that would prevent them from functionally owning webdevelopment for the mobile device space. You as a developer would be wholly dependent on Adobe to maintain a proprietary, non open standard supporting toolset. Worse, your code would have an overhead of additional code that must remain in place to allow you to release across platforms. So instead of a spartan and robust application framework, you have all this additional overhead which makes it convenient to do your cross-platform dev, but, depends solely on Adobe staying out in front of multiple platform development, and gives Adobe additional control to retard platform OS development because they will set the pace of updating not the platform owners. This is where Google and Android are puzzling. They don't or haven't recognized the obvious - that while embracing Adobe's tool will help them build app space, it will adversely impact their own advancement of the OS as they become dependent on Adobe making timely updates to the tool. Therefore, once they implement, they will no longer be free to make ad hoc updates to Android as freely as they have over the last couple of years - in fact this last year, several updates during the course of the year.

Flash is an addiction-- like cocaine:

David Bromberg tells it best:

"I call my Cora hey yeah

Along comes Sally with her nose all tore,
the doctor says she can't sniff no more,

He says cocaine's for horses, it's not for men,
he says it's gonna kill me but he don't say when

I'm simply wild about my good cocaine."

http://www.chordscenter.com/david-br...ng-lljllr.html

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/my-...ee/id156515828

.
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post #164 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Nah, they would get nowhere with Steve.

Steve would respond, "Drop Flash. Not a big deal.")

Too wordy. At a minimum, it would be reduced to 'Drop Flash. No big deal".

Or maybe just 'No way in he**".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

How exactly, is adobe "denying choice"? You don't -have- to run flash. You could install click4Flash or simply uninstall the plugin. Is there an adobe "shill" sitting next to you preventing you from, excersizing choice?.

Let's see if you can follow along, OK?

1. Adobe says that Flash is needed to experience the full internet. WIth me so far?
2. There is no version of Flash for mobile devices - and even if Adobe releases 10.1, only a tiny percentage will run Flash in the future.
3. Flash is proprietary and no one but Adobe has the ability to fix Flash's problems or release a version with lower CPU requirements.

So, if you're using a mobile device and not able to access Flash sites ("the full internet" in Adobe terms), who is to blame but Adobe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I'm game. I fully accept any new standard that wants to step up to the plate, and that companies are willing to make an effort to make work on mobile. The fact remains, however, the web as it is today makes use of flash a lot, so ultimately a mobile device supporting it seamlessly is ideal for a "full web experience."

So by your definition, mobile users do not have the Full Internet - and it's Adobe's fault for not releasing a version that works on mobile devices.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

"Take, out the papers and the Flash, er.. Trash...
--- Or you don't get no spending' cash!
If you don't scrub that kitchen floor,
--- You ain't gonna rock and roll no more!

Yakitty, Yak... Don't talk back!"

"Don't LOOK back" would be more appropriate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

This is patently untrue, and AppleInsider should be ashamed of "publishing" falsehoods like this. Flash runs on any modern browser on any version of OSX, including Safari. Flash also runs on Safari for Windows.

Demonstrably false. iPhone OS is a version of OS X and Adobe has never released a version for OS X, so your statement is false

Quote:
Originally Posted by libran_ca View Post

I find this letter as a very emotional response. However it does not address the issues as mentioned by Jobs in his letter.

Standard practice. If you can't refute an opponent with facts, throw muc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

The 10.1 Beta is out, or will be very soon. They are working.

So you're still confused about the difference between a beta and a product?

Not to mention that no one has explained to you that the iPhone came out in 2007 and Adobe was promising a version of Flash back then - yet STILL hasn't provided it? Plus the fact that 10.1 will only run on a few of the newest and fastest phones - if it works at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I agree, except for your last sentence.

Actually, hasn't Adobe been the one to shut out Flash from mobile devices by not providing any means to play Flash content on them?

.

Why would you not agree with that? Flash is proprietary and no one else can write a new version of Flash. It is a demonstrated fact that mobile devices don't run a full version of Flash today. So who else is responsible if not Adobe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamias View Post

HMM... Seems like it would only get Flash when the devices are powerful enough to not affect the experience. Since Flash 10.1 will only work on iPhone 3GS and Nexus One level devices as a minimum, Adobe has had no real argument for Apple not including Flash yet.

Not correct. Adobe says 10.1 requires an 800 MHz A8 - so the iPhone 3GS won't run it - EVEN IF it works as well as Adobe claims (which is very much in question).
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post #165 of 448
"Adobe Flash technology remains the 'market leader' because of the constant creativity and technical innovation of our employees."

Ummm, maybe because nobody else makes a flash player (instead of that creativity/innovation stuff)?
post #166 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBug View Post




I think we can be pretty sure most of them knew. Most people aren't that stupid.


Stupid has nothing to do with it. And you cannot be "pretty sure". You have no basis.
post #167 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlaw View Post

That is like Toyota saying "We love the American National Highway Association." What we don't love is someone interfering with your right to experience uncontrolled acceleration while on fire.

Hilarious! Good one!
post #168 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

What a bunch of losers. Adobe? No, the retarded posters in this thread.

Here is how to deal with Flash.

iPhone/iPad = no worries no Flash (STFU)

Mac Book = install click to flash or uninstall Flash plugin (STFU)

Mac Pro = see above (STFU)

Windows = no problem (STFU)

Android = go to the AndroidInsider website (STFU)

I would only add:

99% of mobile phones = no worries no Flash (STFU)

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post #169 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

Android 2.1+ devices will be flash capable. Updates are slowly coming out, but they're coming out for those older android devices to bring them up on the new android releases. It's not a great system, but it's better than no flash ever which is the system apple's playing by.

Cortex-A8 is Required for Flash 10.1 Mobile - everything else gets flash-lite

For anyone not paying attention that means DROID/Nexus One class phones or higher.
post #170 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

swf has been open for time. Anyone can develop their own player, in fact the compiler for actionscipt is open source.

The FULL swf spec is NOT open. One of the things that open source players can't access is the verification portion. That has stopped them from accessing the BBC's iPlayer videos.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...01/bbc-iplayer
post #171 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdawg75 View Post

I've been on an iPhone since day one of the original and on the iPad from day one as well. Haven't missed flash at all and am seriously considering just deleting it from Safari on my Quad and MBP. I had 3 crashes last week...all three a result of Flash. If Adobe can't get Flash to work on the desktop or MBP, the last thing I need is Flash crashing my iPhone and iPad.

Get this -> ClickToFlash.
Best little app I have. Keeps Flash from loading unless you want it to.
post #172 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by fazekas View Post

My experience with most Adobe products, Flash, Photoshop, Acrobat Pro, etc is that these apps take too long to load up, slow to render, and generally are bloated and buggy. I use a Mac Book Pro core 2 duo, and loathe when I need to use their products, so much so that I look for alternatives to their products where possible. So, when will Adobe demonstrate a working mobile version of Flash!? Honestly, I hope Flash and most Adboe products go away, that day couldn't come soon enough.

check my sig
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post #173 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Get this -> ClickToFlash.
Best little app I have. Keeps Flash from loading unless you want it to.

what i love most about that is that you couldn't do that if all the ads were in html4/5 with js
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post #174 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

As to your assertion that Adobe is pushing porn and ads, you had to have known how stupid this sounded when you posted it. OBVIOUSLY html5 can handle video and ads, so if Apple is pushing HTML5, by your logic, they also are pushing ads and porn. Ugh, why did I even respond to that sentence?





No, it isn't, and to say so means you have absolutely no grasp on how big the internet really is. A few major sites convert to html5 for the much hyped ipad launch and now the whole web is converting? Nope.

.

We get it... you love Flash and no doubt make a pretty penny 'developing' in it.

My point is that the only people who passionately 'need' Flash are those who
1) want their porn
2) want to bombard us with annoying jumping ads, and
3) want to play primitive games like Farmville.

And the constant meme from the pro-Flash crowd is that Apple forces you to use a 'crippled internet' (again the hubris) because it doesn't agree with the definition of "The Internet" as the 3 features above.
post #175 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Postulant- dude I have no idea what you're talking about.

So are you saying that Apple supports Flash for the web now and just not for mobile devices?

Flash has always workded fine on Safari, just not on the mobile platform.
post #176 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by esummers View Post

"Adobe Flash technology remains the 'market leader' because of the constant creativity and technical innovation of our employees."

Ummm, maybe because nobody else makes a flash player (instead of that creativity/innovation stuff)?

There are alternatives to Flash... ie, silverlight.
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post #177 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

We get it... you love Flash and no doubt make a pretty penny 'developing' in it.

My point is that the only people who passionately 'need' Flash are those who
1) want their porn
2) want to bombard us with annoying jumping ads, and
3) want to play primitive games like Farmville.

And the constant meme from the pro-Flash crowd is that Apple forces you to use a 'crippled internet' (again the hubris) because it doesn't agree with the definition of "The Internet" as the 3 features above.

There's more to the web than your narrow view of it, but at least we know how you spend all your spare time.
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post #178 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar View Post

Cortex-A8 is Required for Flash 10.1 Mobile - everything else gets flash-lite

For anyone not paying attention that means DROID/Nexus One class phones or higher.

Which means phones which wont and dont support HTML5 anyway will get something that gives them HTML5 like features on their non HTML5 phones. What's your problem?
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post #179 of 448
I use clicktoflash on my MacBook Pro, the only problem I see with the more and more website adopting HTML5 and abandoning Flash is I won't be able to block banner ads as easily in Safari.
post #180 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

There's more to the web than your narrow view of it, but at least we know how you spend all your spare time.

???
Taken a reading comprehension course lately?
post #181 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

check my sig

Nobody cares about the links in your sig. I you have something to say, then say it.

   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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   Apple develops an improved programming language.  Google copied Java.  Everything you need to know, right there.

 

    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #182 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

Which means phones which wont and dont support HTML5 anyway will get something that gives them HTML5 like features on their non HTML5 phones. What's your problem?

I don't think I have a problem, I was just pointing out that if your device is updated to Android 2.2, that doesn't automatically mean you'll be able to run Flash when it's released.

As far as HTML5 features go, I guess that's dependent on what version of webkit the browser is built upon..
post #183 of 448
Just think if they spent that advertising money on hiring an actual programmer or two who could clean up their slow and buggy Flash code.

Unfortunately, the world is about image rather than actual substance.
post #184 of 448
All a phone needs to support the majority of HTML5 is an HTML5 compliant browser. Hardware specs don't matter so much. The only hardware intensive functions are Canvass and video playback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

Which means phones which wont and dont support HTML5 anyway will get something that gives them HTML5 like features on their non HTML5 phones. What's your problem?
post #185 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

what i love most about that is that you couldn't do that if all the ads were in html4/5 with js

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Adblockers block the source.

Ads have to be verified, which makes self-contained, self-hosted ads basically impossible (nobody would trust your "hits" count).

If you host the ads from someplace that allows the advertisers to track usage, it becomes blockable. Even HTML ads. Even webbugs. Even transparent Flash containers.

Adblock Plus and Safari Adblock, FTW.

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    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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    AT&T believes their LTE coverage is adequate

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post #186 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

oh now you're going to tell us adobe is a criminal. First we heard that adobe is against choice and is forcing you, to something, not sure what, and now we're comparing them to a criminal.

Well certainly adobe has been pretty lazy in regards to the mac platform. If people don't want to give them another shake, well, that's their choice.

it's called uninstall the plugin. clap your hands, yer done.

SIGH... I wasn't trying to say that they are a criminal, I was pointing out that recent behavior doesn't wipe out their history. And Adobe hasn't just been bad at supporting the Mac platform, they have a bad history of supporting anyone besides Windows. So the notion that they are now going to maintain all of the mobile platforms as well is one that I'll believe when I see it.

As for CHOICE... if Adobe is all about choice then they should encourage web developers to offer up different ways to access their content depending on which device is asking for it, instead of locking everything important on that site up in flash. If Adobe was for choice then they should publish the FULL swf spec so open source players could play content that requires verification.
post #187 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

that isn't rue based on adobe's recent -public- beta of flash player for mac, which runs extremely well.

A little premature for that claim, and what does it matter if they add one platform out of all the unsupported. There's still a big hole in their support and claims.
post #188 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

did you read the thread? There are several posts suggesting that adobe is against choice. So that infers, that you are being forced to do or use something. Or, if that's not what is meant, perhaps you can provide a better more detailed explanation of what is meant by adobe being against choice.

Then quote what you are replying to, otherwise, there's no way to know if your response is relevant or not, unless you prefer it that way.
post #189 of 448
Despite the media blitz about Apple's mobile devices not supporting flash, said devices are still flying off shelves. No one can keep the iPad in stock.


I'm ready for my 4th gen iPhone. No flash, no problem.
post #190 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert View Post

what i love most about that is that you couldn't do that if all the ads were in html4/5 with js

Yet...
And as noted, John.B noted, if the source is blocked, it is blocked.
So unless a website wants to host all the ads on their own website (ain't gonna happen), should be relatively easy to block them.
post #191 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

... As fr the html5 wrangling, I believe adobe isn't the only one trying to pull and tug at things during the process, ...

"Pull and tug," is a disingenuous characterization of Adobe's attempts to torpedo HTML5 and particularly the Canvas element.
post #192 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevie View Post

You have no basis for those statements. They are mere conjecture.

The basis is what we've seen so far and Adobe's history. On what basis do you dispute them?
post #193 of 448
Actually they did give it a chance. Back when the iPhone first came out Jobs said that they tried to work with Adobe on getting Flash to work and it didn't work. Adobe has taken too long and Apple has moved on to bigger and better.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Because Apple first criticized THEM for a product that doesn't exist.
Instead of giving it a chance then deciding from there, they pushed out misinformation to justify not ever even attempting to make it work. Wouldn't you be mad if you were Adobe? Especially now that Android 2.2 has been shown to run it just fine?
post #194 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

NY TImes still uses Flash on the web:

http://video.nytimes.com/video/playl...115/index.html

and you were trying to say?



Seems to be working pretty well...
post #195 of 448
The whole web isn't going to change to HTML5 because of Steve Jobs, it'll change because of Flash. Flash has been a bad choice since the start of it, just because the ease of use. But Flash is bad to the client, it works horrible with the machine resources and Adobe haven't done anything to optimize it, maybe because it is impossible to make it better just because of its core malfunction. I guess Flash will never work well in mobile devices. It worked horrible in Desktops from 800MHZ under, complete machines with video cards, more RAM and capabilities than those in the Smartphones of today. The Adobe Flash intentions are just an utopia, they can't make it work, and even if they release a full mobile version it will be buggy, crashy and a big drainer, a big bad experience for the end user. And above all that you have that Flash content isn't possible to be indexed, and the efforts to do it are very dissapointing, on the other hand HTML5 content is almost full indexable, and that is a really big plus. If I was Adobe I better re-create Flash as the best HTML5 animation compiler, to create banners and export is as HTML5 with JavaScript, that's the job they must have to do RIGHT NOW. Any time they expend trying to justify Flash on the Web is a waste. What could happen is that Apple creates a HTML5 Banner Creator Suite or something like that. Then, Adobe will REALLY, REALLY CRY OUT. Or maybe Apple decides to buy Adobe to straighten things up, who knows, but I don't think so, Adobe represents too many distractions for Apple. Anyway, forget about Flash, the time to begin a switch has come to a start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

LOL! Good article. Things are heating up between the two companies.

I personally see merit in both sides, but what I don't think is wise is for Steve to have dismissed flash as a possibility in the future of iphone.

Think of it. Is the WHOLE web going to change to html5 JUST because of Steve Jobs? The fact is, if these devices get advanced enough so the experience on a mobile device is as good as on a computer, then it'll be the iphone that doesn't have the full internet.

You guys thought I was crazy when I said iphone would get multitasking but look what happened. Now I'm saying it will get Flash some day.
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post #196 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamias View Post

... And try asking Linux users about Adobe's support for their platform.

What support?
post #197 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse;

The basis is what we've seen so far and Adobe's history. On what basis do you dispute them?

Wishful thinking perhaps.

Ipads, which lack flash, are flying off the shelves. Netbooks, which support flash, are dust collectors. In fact, Best Buy is currently hiring for an associate with dusting experience - coincidence?
post #198 of 448
I just hope the next version of Adobe's Flash Catalyst and InDesign allow exporting to HTML 5 animation instead of Flash. That would solve a lot of problems for me, I think.
post #199 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamias View Post

If a criminal reforms, does that erase all of his past crimes? Adobe's recent work on the Mac version seems to be in response to all the negative attention it's gotten lately. Their development history has been terrible. Just read the comments from users on software download sites. ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

oh now you're going to tell us adobe is a criminal. First we heard that adobe is against choice and is forcing you, to something, not sure what, and now we're comparing them to a criminal. ...

Talk about straw men. It's very clear that he didn't call Adobe a criminal to anyone with even average intelligence. However, his analogy is entirely valid, even if pejorative.
post #200 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Are you always uninformed, TechStud? Don't answer that, rhetorical question.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/

AI need to take MAC address info from all members so a ban is a ban and no changing IDs possible unless they get another computer and after a while that will get old after a few!
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