Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign - Page 5

Originally Posted by chronster

It's not crashing. Android gives you a dialog when an app crashes.

Here's the reviewer's comment (I really don't see why he would be lying):
*Update: Just wanted to clarify, flash didnt crash here, I just accidentally hit the home button while I was really trying to hit the back button. Android users know that you get an error message if an app crashes, I know because I have a Nexus One. Theres hidden home,back, and power buttons (on the side of the prototype) u do not see in the videos/photos, sorry if that confused any readers.

Originally Posted by Garion

Translation of Adobe's new anti-Apple campaign: We are now officially scared.

Originally Posted by masternav

So. Adobe is on the record as either opposing html 5 (early-on) or trying to emasculate it as a robust and functional open standard because they rightly recognized that it would have an impact on Flash installed base - especially if Canvas is included. Can you say passive-agressive behaviors??

Then, Adobe has demonstrated that they cannot effectively support the installed base of Flash users, based on the feedback in their own forums around resource utilization - in most reported cases on the Mac and Linux platforms.

Then they trot out a pre-beta builder paltform which they claim will allow developers to develop once release across all platforms - which is, I think where you get your questions.

So the Adobe business model is to lock-in developers to their own product (Flash) and compromise any competing system, standard (open or otherwise) or toolset that would prevent them from functionally owning webdevelopment for the mobile device space. You as a developer would be wholly dependent on Adobe to maintain a proprietary, non open standard supporting toolset. Worse, your code would have an overhead of additional code that must remain in place to allow you to release across platforms. So instead of a spartan and robust application framework, you have all this additional overhead which makes it convenient to do your cross-platform dev, but, depends solely on Adobe staying out in front of multiple platform development, and gives Adobe additional control to retard platform OS development because they will set the pace of updating not the platform owners. This is where Google and Android are puzzling. They don't or haven't recognized the obvious - that while embracing Adobe's tool will help them build app space, it will adversely impact their own advancement of the OS as they become dependent on Adobe making timely updates to the tool. Therefore, once they implement, they will no longer be free to make ad hoc updates to Android as freely as they have over the last couple of years - in fact this last year, several updates during the course of the year.

Originally Posted by cvaldes1831

Nah, they would get nowhere with Steve.

Steve would respond, "Drop Flash. Not a big deal.")

Originally Posted by Groovetube

How exactly, is adobe "denying choice"? You don't -have- to run flash. You could install click4Flash or simply uninstall the plugin. Is there an adobe "shill" sitting next to you preventing you from, excersizing choice?.

Originally Posted by chronster

I'm game. I fully accept any new standard that wants to step up to the plate, and that companies are willing to make an effort to make work on mobile. The fact remains, however, the web as it is today makes use of flash a lot, so ultimately a mobile device supporting it seamlessly is ideal for a "full web experience."

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

"Take, out the papers and the Flash, er.. Trash...
--- Or you don't get no spending' cash!
If you don't scrub that kitchen floor,
--- You ain't gonna rock and roll no more!

Yakitty, Yak... Don't talk back!"

Originally Posted by John.B

This is patently untrue, and AppleInsider should be ashamed of "publishing" falsehoods like this. Flash runs on any modern browser on any version of OSX, including Safari. Flash also runs on Safari for Windows.

Originally Posted by libran_ca

I find this letter as a very emotional response. However it does not address the issues as mentioned by Jobs in his letter.

Originally Posted by Stevie

The 10.1 Beta is out, or will be very soon. They are working.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

I agree, except for your last sentence.

Actually, hasn't Adobe been the one to shut out Flash from mobile devices by not providing any means to play Flash content on them?

.

Originally Posted by Macadamias

HMM... Seems like it would only get Flash when the devices are powerful enough to not affect the experience. Since Flash 10.1 will only work on iPhone 3GS and Nexus One level devices as a minimum, Adobe has had no real argument for Apple not including Flash yet.

Originally Posted by TheGreatBug




I think we can be pretty sure most of them knew. Most people aren't that stupid.

Originally Posted by jetlaw

That is like Toyota saying "We love the American National Highway Association." What we don't love is someone interfering with your right to experience uncontrolled acceleration while on fire.

Originally Posted by mstone

What a bunch of losers. Adobe? No, the retarded posters in this thread.

Here is how to deal with Flash.

iPhone/iPad = no worries no Flash (STFU)

Mac Book = install click to flash or uninstall Flash plugin (STFU)

Mac Pro = see above (STFU)

Windows = no problem (STFU)

Android = go to the AndroidInsider website (STFU)

Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert

Android 2.1+ devices will be flash capable. Updates are slowly coming out, but they're coming out for those older android devices to bring them up on the new android releases. It's not a great system, but it's better than no flash ever which is the system apple's playing by.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

swf has been open for time. Anyone can develop their own player, in fact the compiler for actionscipt is open source.

Originally Posted by macdawg75

I've been on an iPhone since day one of the original and on the iPad from day one as well. Haven't missed flash at all and am seriously considering just deleting it from Safari on my Quad and MBP. I had 3 crashes last week...all three a result of Flash. If Adobe can't get Flash to work on the desktop or MBP, the last thing I need is Flash crashing my iPhone and iPad.

Originally Posted by fazekas

My experience with most Adobe products, Flash, Photoshop, Acrobat Pro, etc is that these apps take too long to load up, slow to render, and generally are bloated and buggy. I use a Mac Book Pro core 2 duo, and loathe when I need to use their products, so much so that I look for alternatives to their products where possible. So, when will Adobe demonstrate a working mobile version of Flash!? Honestly, I hope Flash and most Adboe products go away, that day couldn't come soon enough.

Originally Posted by Chris_CA

Get this -> ClickToFlash.
Best little app I have. Keeps Flash from loading unless you want it to.

Originally Posted by chronster

As to your assertion that Adobe is pushing porn and ads, you had to have known how stupid this sounded when you posted it. OBVIOUSLY html5 can handle video and ads, so if Apple is pushing HTML5, by your logic, they also are pushing ads and porn. Ugh, why did I even respond to that sentence?





No, it isn't, and to say so means you have absolutely no grasp on how big the internet really is. A few major sites convert to html5 for the much hyped ipad launch and now the whole web is converting? Nope.

.

Originally Posted by yesiCan

Postulant- dude I have no idea what you're talking about.

So are you saying that Apple supports Flash for the web now and just not for mobile devices?

Originally Posted by esummers

"Adobe Flash technology remains the 'market leader' because of the constant creativity and technical innovation of our employees."

Ummm, maybe because nobody else makes a flash player (instead of that creativity/innovation stuff)?

Originally Posted by GQB

We get it... you love Flash and no doubt make a pretty penny 'developing' in it.

My point is that the only people who passionately 'need' Flash are those who
1) want their porn
2) want to bombard us with annoying jumping ads, and
3) want to play primitive games like Farmville.

And the constant meme from the pro-Flash crowd is that Apple forces you to use a 'crippled internet' (again the hubris) because it doesn't agree with the definition of "The Internet" as the 3 features above.

Originally Posted by Solar

Cortex-A8 is Required for Flash 10.1 Mobile - everything else gets flash-lite

For anyone not paying attention that means DROID/Nexus One class phones or higher.

Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert

There's more to the web than your narrow view of it, but at least we know how you spend all your spare time.

Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert

check my sig

Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert

Which means phones which wont and dont support HTML5 anyway will get something that gives them HTML5 like features on their non HTML5 phones. What's your problem?

Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert

Which means phones which wont and dont support HTML5 anyway will get something that gives them HTML5 like features on their non HTML5 phones. What's your problem?

Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert

what i love most about that is that you couldn't do that if all the ads were in html4/5 with js

Originally Posted by Groovetube

oh now you're going to tell us adobe is a criminal. First we heard that adobe is against choice and is forcing you, to something, not sure what, and now we're comparing them to a criminal.

Well certainly adobe has been pretty lazy in regards to the mac platform. If people don't want to give them another shake, well, that's their choice.

it's called uninstall the plugin. clap your hands, yer done.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

that isn't rue based on adobe's recent -public- beta of flash player for mac, which runs extremely well.

Originally Posted by Groovetube

did you read the thread? There are several posts suggesting that adobe is against choice. So that infers, that you are being forced to do or use something. Or, if that's not what is meant, perhaps you can provide a better more detailed explanation of what is meant by adobe being against choice.

Originally Posted by jeffreytgilbert

what i love most about that is that you couldn't do that if all the ads were in html4/5 with js

Originally Posted by Groovetube

... As fr the html5 wrangling, I believe adobe isn't the only one trying to pull and tug at things during the process, ...

Originally Posted by Stevie

You have no basis for those statements. They are mere conjecture.

Originally Posted by chronster

Because Apple first criticized THEM for a product that doesn't exist.
Instead of giving it a chance then deciding from there, they pushed out misinformation to justify not ever even attempting to make it work. Wouldn't you be mad if you were Adobe? Especially now that Android 2.2 has been shown to run it just fine?

Originally Posted by yesiCan

NY TImes still uses Flash on the web:

http://video.nytimes.com/video/playl...115/index.html

and you were trying to say?

Originally Posted by chronster

LOL! Good article. Things are heating up between the two companies.

I personally see merit in both sides, but what I don't think is wise is for Steve to have dismissed flash as a possibility in the future of iphone.

Think of it. Is the WHOLE web going to change to html5 JUST because of Steve Jobs? The fact is, if these devices get advanced enough so the experience on a mobile device is as good as on a computer, then it'll be the iphone that doesn't have the full internet.

You guys thought I was crazy when I said iphone would get multitasking but look what happened. Now I'm saying it will get Flash some day.

Originally Posted by Macadamias

... And try asking Linux users about Adobe's support for their platform.

Originally Posted by anonymouse;

The basis is what we've seen so far and Adobe's history. On what basis do you dispute them?

Originally Posted by Macadamias

If a criminal reforms, does that erase all of his past crimes? Adobe's recent work on the Mac version seems to be in response to all the negative attention it's gotten lately. Their development history has been terrible. Just read the comments from users on software download sites. ...

Originally Posted by Groovetube

oh now you're going to tell us adobe is a criminal. First we heard that adobe is against choice and is forcing you, to something, not sure what, and now we're comparing them to a criminal. ...

Originally Posted by Postulant

Are you always uninformed, TechStud? Don't answer that, rhetorical question.

http://www.apple.com/ipad/ready-for-ipad/