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Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign - Page 10

post #361 of 448
We can all have personal opinions, but not personal facts. Here is a fact:

The results of the latest Mefeedia survey were posted Thursday. Here's the takeaway:

26% of all video is now available in H.264, up from 10% in January (from Apple 2.0)
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post #362 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

I wonder if Adobe realizes how hypocritical they're being.

That statement is exactly what Apple is pushing for. Open standards that no one company can control.

Except that apple wants to be in control of all iPad and iPhone content. Must be developed on an Apple product, using a single-platform development kit. Not exactly open, either. h.264 isn't free to use either, and HTML5 is still a long ways away from being an agreed upon standard.
post #363 of 448
fair enough.

now - to the beach! summer has come to the rainforest!!
post #364 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Oh... you can be dismissive: "obviously, you don't run a web shop."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

i see what you did there... you're trying to turn the argument around. since i 'obviously don't run a web shop', shall we ask the group here? up to you to post the link...

I love his use of "web shop" to say how he's an expert that we should all follow blindly yet can't post a single source to back up anything he's said.

The use of the term "web shop" with nothing factual or detailed to back it up reminds me of this That Mitchell & Webb Look skit: Let's not get bogged down in so called research and internet jargon
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post #365 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Except that apple wants to be in control of all iPad and iPhone content. Must be developed on an Apple product, using a single-platform development kit.

Apple is like a 5-star chef owned restaurant, and Steve is the chef. Just because you pay for your meal doesn't mean you get to go into the kitchen and change the recipe and cook it the way you like. His name is on it and you get it his way. You want it your way? Go to Burger King.
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post #366 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

i do invite you to go back to post you dismissed, and tell me where that applies...

ok, sure. Unlike the other guy who continually mouths off with nothing, I'll answer.
you said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino
i personally don't think that's the way to go. the days of frivolous eye-candy are over. i know there are some things you can do in flash that aren't yet possible (at least easily) to do in other ways. if you really look at usability though, i think there's always an easier, more efficient way to deliver information. how many times have you found the info you were really looking for on the google result page, without ever visiting the originating site?

restaurants are a good example. they often do their entire sites in flash, with mind numbing animated floating text and useless pan & scans. when you're just looking for their hours, address, and maybe want to have a look at their menus, why bother delivering goo to potential customers and block mobile users in the process? looks to me like somebody oversold them... we need to educate our clients and convince them that usability always trumps visual complexity. if they buy an iphone, they'll figure that out themselves rather quickly.

just my $0.02.

obviously, you don't run a web shop.

I said that because if you did, you'd know many clients come to you with preconceived notions of what they want. Especially places like clients, and god night clubs, are notorious. I have one that insists on flash cause he wants moving crap all over the place. It makes it a nightmare to update because, they don't have the budget for higher end cms-d flash. There's a prime example where css with wordpress used as a cms would be prime.

Doing this brings all kinds of people. That's why those cartoons of graphic designer vs client are dam popular. It isn't like all clients will listen to you.

So no that wasn't intended at all to be dismissive.
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post #367 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Except that apple wants to be in control of all iPad and iPhone content.

Gee. That must be why Safari won't go to web sites unless Apple approves them. Or maybe it's why I can't get email that isn't approved by Apple.

Oh, wait. Those things aren't true. So much for your theory.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #368 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I love his use of "web shop" to say how he's an expert that we should all follow blindly yet can't post a single source to back up anything he's said.

The use of the term "web shop" with nothing factual or detailed to back it up reminds me of this That Mitchell & Webb Look skit: Let's not get bogged down in so called research and internet jargon

where's your sources to back "it" up LOL.

Back WHAT up. WHAT exactly, do you want backed up?

Still awaiting the explaination as to why you said I apparently said the flash player for mobile was PROVED. That's troll behaviour.

btw web shop is a term often used here. Look it up if need be.
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post #369 of 448
Anyway, what a lot of wasted time.

So we've learned that few want proof of a flash player, even though none exists beyond some demos of a beta, and they really hate flash.

and the world... is truly, a better place for it.

So go forth, and hate flash. it is after all. quite a noble cause. Enjoy!
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post #370 of 448
Sounds like someone had too much electric.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #371 of 448
Groove is pretty persistent - poor guy has been arguing his point for 9 hours straight.
post #372 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Groove is pretty persistent - poor guy has been arguing his point for 9 hours straight.

When you count in his lunch break it looks like Adobe isn't paying OT on this subject justyet. I wonder if they use their own accounts of if they rotate the same account between shifts.
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post #373 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Groove is pretty persistent - poor guy has been arguing his point for 9 hours straight.

takes two to tango.

it seems solipsism can only really hang on to the idea that I might be employed by adobe.

paranoia perhaps?

perhaps what drives him to make things up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
You're the one claiming it's proven so we want you to prove it. Pretty fraking straightforward.

No one here has made claims about unannounced products so we wouldn't say that the next iPhone or iPad will or won't be better.

Most of here like to use facts that are backed up. You should try it sometime.

still hasn't addressed this lie, and generally, trolls don't.
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post #374 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

...still hasn't addressed this lie, and generally, trolls don't.

Dude, if he was a troll, he'd have been banned about sixteen thousand posts ago.

And I totally support Apple in banning the porting of flash apps. More often than not, using a ported app is much like eating someone else's leftovers.
post #375 of 448
What part of Apple's letter do they not understand.

I thought Adobe had Google and HP and Palm and Nokia and Blackberry and Samsung as partners...
Why can't they leave Apple the hell alone.

Why is Adobe pestering Apple and not Microsoft? MS won't allow flash on Windows Phone 7 either.

Adobe loves Apple so much that they tried to destroy Apple with antitrust charges.

Who the hell do they think they are dealing with here...

Grow up Adobe!
post #376 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

Dude, if he was a troll, he'd have been banned about sixteen thousand posts ago.

My very first reply to him I pointed out where is woefully incorrect and kept pointing it out, but he just keeps backtracking like a training circus chimp on a unicycle and saying that isn't what he meant or whatever trolls do to always prove their case without ever posting anything to backup their position. I think his first post on this forum was to TenoBell; it started off smarmy and condescending and then just continued on from there.
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post #377 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

Dude, if he was a troll, he'd have been banned about sixteen thousand posts ago.

And I totally support Apple in banning the porting of flash apps. More often than not, using a ported app is much like eating someone else's leftovers.

I believe that is called "sloppy seconds" using the vernacular.

.
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post #378 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

My very first reply to him I pointed out where is woefully incorrect and kept pointing it out, but he just keeps backtracking like a training circus chimp on a unicycle and saying that isn't what he meant or whatever trolls do to always prove their case without ever posting anything to backup their position. I think his first post on this forum was to TenoBell; it started off smarmy and condescending and then just continued on from there.

actually no. Here's my first post.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...2&postcount=72 Nothing really "smarmy" really. The discussion deteriorated from there from everyone involved.

And your very first reply to me you called me a kid looking for the ban hammer. Then you went on to call me a liar, and adobe shill.

So you never did reply as to why you are compelled to lie that people said something when they didn't. Regardless of how many post you have here, that's pretty low.

As I said, only trolls do that.
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post #379 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

What part of Apple's letter do they not understand.

I thought Adobe had Google and HP and Palm and Nokia and Blackberry and Samsung as partners...
Why can't they leave Apple the hell alone.

Why is Adobe pestering Apple and not Microsoft? MS won't allow flash on Windows Phone 7 either.

Adobe loves Apple so much that they tried to destroy Apple with antitrust charges.

Who the hell do they think they are dealing with here...

Grow up Adobe!

http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/201...ndows-phone-7/

I highly doubt adobe could hope to destroy apple with an anti trust. They should just put out a good player. End of story.
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post #380 of 448
Adobe has refuted virtually nothing in the Steve Jobs letter. That speaks volumes.
post #381 of 448
Adobe is desperate to turn the tide of public opinion in their favor and against Apple. The problem? Most people don't care about Flash. They love the content that has been provided in Flash, but do they care about the technology itself? Not at all! If HTML5 or an app can fill the hole left by the exclusion of Flash, they're not going to toss out their iPad/iPhone just because certain code won't run on it.
post #382 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Why is it better?

Adobe can go f**k themselves.

I've been sick of dealing with their s**t software since I installed 64 bit Linux in 2004.

You have been told before, 64bit AMD Linux was only released in 2003, and you were expecting Adobe to fully support an OS that would have had next to no users in 2004?
post #383 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHKOsta View Post

And I totally support Apple in banning the porting of flash apps. More often than not, using a ported app is much like eating someone else's leftovers.

Yes I agree, when you see Safari and iTunes on Windows you realise how bad this method is.
post #384 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

takes two to tango.

it seems solipsism can only really hang on to the idea that I might be employed by adobe.

paranoia perhaps?

perhaps what drives him to make things up...


still hasn't addressed this lie, and generally, trolls don't.

You are calling solipsism a troll? You really need a realty check
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post #385 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Yes I agree, when you see Safari and iTunes on Windows you realise how bad this method is.

I don't use Windows much, but I do remember Quicktime being quite awful, so I wouldn't be surprised if Safari and iTunes on Windows weren't as good as their OS X counterparts, which proves Apple's point.
Who takes a joy in using non-native applications? I use a few cross-platform programs; I always think how much better they'd be if they were actually developed specifically for OS X rather than for no OS in particular. I have never come across a native application and thought: "Gee, this application would be so much better if it were written in Flash, AIR, Silverlight, or Java."
post #386 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I wrote an HTML5 test page and I was immediately confronted with one very annoying problem with the canvas tag on iPhone. In my test, once I pinched zoomed to the point where my canvas filled the iPhone screen. I could not zoom out as the canvas tag itself for some reason is unresponsive to the pinch.

You might want to ask Apple.
post #387 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You are calling solipsism a troll? You really need a realty check

It's been kinda' a special day!

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post #388 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You have been told before, 64bit AMD Linux was only released in 2003, and you were expecting Adobe to fully support an OS that would have had next to no users in 2004?

Just like there are roughly 60-100 million Mac users they are easily 10 million linux users in the world.

Compared to the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Windows users Adobe prioritizes their devs by deployment size.
post #389 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You are calling solipsism a troll? You really need a realty check

What am I supposed to tremble?

well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?

Is this the accepted way of communicating here?

Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.

Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.
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post #390 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

What part of Apple's letter do they not understand.

I thought Adobe had Google and HP and Palm and Nokia and Blackberry and Samsung as partners...
Why can't they leave Apple the hell alone.

Why is Adobe pestering Apple and not Microsoft? MS won't allow flash on Windows Phone 7 either.

Adobe loves Apple so much that they tried to destroy Apple with antitrust charges.

Who the hell do they think they are dealing with here...

Grow up Adobe!

I suppose Adobe doesn't like being reminded that Apple doesn't need Adobe to thrive.
post #391 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I suppose Adobe doesn't like being reminded that Apple doesn't need Adobe to thrive.

I just stumbled across Adobe's next ad campaign.

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post #392 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

What am I supposed to tremble?

well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?

Is this the accepted way of communicating here?

Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.

Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.

We have some real trolls on this site, hence my comment. Good argument between Apple lovers is just par for the course, no need for name calling. Don't give up on us.
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post #393 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I just stumbled across Adobe's next ad campaign.


You really shouldn'ta.... but I woulda'

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post #394 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

We have some real trolls on this site, hence my comment. Good argument between Apple lovers is just par for the course, no need for name calling. Don't give up on us.

believe me I've fought off the best of the windows trolls in a mac forum for years. I get that. I was one of the few developers who switched to mac years ago, and I've had my share of BS slung at me.

But adobe shill I'm definitely not. Personally I'd rather kill off dreamweaver.
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post #395 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Just like there are roughly 60-100 million Mac users they are easily 10 million linux users in the world.

Can I get you to verify what you said, I was referring to then number of 64bit Linux users in 2004, which would have been closer to 0 then to 10 million

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Compared to the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Windows users Adobe prioritizes their devs by deployment size.

Indeed, people seem to miss this point
post #396 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualia View Post

I don't use Windows much, but I do remember Quicktime being quite awful, so I wouldn't be surprised if Safari and iTunes on Windows weren't as good as their OS X counterparts, which proves Apple's point.
Who takes a joy in using non-native applications? I use a few cross-platform programs; I always think how much better they'd be if they were actually developed specifically for OS X rather than for no OS in particular. I have never come across a native application and thought: "Gee, this application would be so much better if it were written in Flash, AIR, Silverlight, or Java."

So in saying that, don't you think they should practice what they preach before trying to force the process on others.
post #397 of 448
Are the web ads going to be in Flash?

http://clicktoflash.com/
post #398 of 448
Wow, after reading thru 10 pages of posts, I'm spent. The verizon vs at&t threads weren't this tedious, were they?

So it's been pointed out already, this campaign smacks of desperation by Adobe. They really contradict themselves as well, at least in my view. They seem to think this is just a PR problem, when in reality it's a issue of technology and corporate strategy. Apple outlined their position in SJ's letter, but I think that was in response to rampant internet speculation based primarily on rumored comments by Steve Jobs, not so much because this is a "PR" problem.

My initial thought was, hey Adobe, how about instead of wasting money on PR and advertising, you just spend the money on fixing your software? Perhaps, though, they realized that the cost to fix their software far exceeds what they will spend on the ad campaign. Or more likely, perhaps they correctly understand that the ship has already sailed on fixing their software, at least as far as it pertains to Apple platforms.

My point here is that I believe the current performance of Flash on mobile platforms is moot. Apple's stance wrt to Flash on iPhone has more to do with Adobe's lengthy history of piss poor support for Apple's platforms and the likelihood that they will not change in this regard, as well as the sound technical reasons that have been been delineated in Apple's letter and elsewhere.

One more thing. Adobe ♥ Apple? Oh really? Maybe they ♥ Apple, but they have nothing but contempt for the MacOS, as well as Apple's customers. This much is clear, ever since they bought Macromedia, killed off all the competition, and have been raping Apple's customers by charging exorbitant prices for bloated garbageware ever since.

F$CK Adobe.
post #399 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

What am I supposed to tremble?

well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?

Is this the accepted way of communicating here?

Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.

Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.

Maybe your comments were weak and unsupported and he was providing his opinions, which were more strongly supported with rational information and logically theme to his reply.

Btw understand definition of a troll

As described by Robert Bond in The International Review of Law, Computers & Technology, trolls usually exhibit a typical pattern of behavior:

In ‘The Art of Trolling’ published on the web it is suggested that ‘in Usenet usage, a “troll” is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a bridge accosting passers by, but rather a provocative posting to a news group intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses. The content of a “troll” posting generally falls into several areas. It may consist of an apparently foolish contradiction or common knowledge, a deliberately offensive insult to the readers of the news group or a broad request for trivial follow-up postings.

P.S. I did not comment on the article, since even a blind man could see that Adobe are plain silly releasing such statement and ads. Steve Jobs must have hit an artery with Adobe on this one.
post #400 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Groovetube View Post

Oh come on that's just ridiculous. I guess the iphone 2Ger's might be mighty pissed at no iphoneOS4 though eh. What a ridiculous premise.

To be honest I wouldn't think that owners of a 3 year-old phone would expect it to be able to implement all the features of a new OS. Those with any kind of reasonable expectations, that is.
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