Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign - Page 10

We can all have personal opinions, but not personal facts. Here is a fact:

The results of the latest Mefeedia survey were posted Thursday. Here's the takeaway:

26% of all video is now available in H.264, up from 10% in January (from Apple 2.0)

Except that apple wants to be in control of all iPad and iPhone content. Must be developed on an Apple product, using a single-platform development kit. Not exactly open, either. h.264 isn't free to use either, and HTML5 is still a long ways away from being an agreed upon standard.

fair enough.

now - to the beach! summer has come to the rainforest!!

I love his use of "web shop" to say how he's an expert that we should all follow blindly yet can't post a single source to back up anything he's said.

The use of the term "web shop" with nothing factual or detailed to back it up reminds me of this That Mitchell & Webb Look skit: Let's not get bogged down in so called research and internet jargon

Apple is like a 5-star chef owned restaurant, and Steve is the chef. Just because you pay for your meal doesn't mean you get to go into the kitchen and change the recipe and cook it the way you like. His name is on it and you get it his way. You want it your way? Go to Burger King.

ok, sure. Unlike the other guy who continually mouths off with nothing, I'll answer.
you said:

obviously, you don't run a web shop.

I said that because if you did, you'd know many clients come to you with preconceived notions of what they want. Especially places like clients, and god night clubs, are notorious. I have one that insists on flash cause he wants moving crap all over the place. It makes it a nightmare to update because, they don't have the budget for higher end cms-d flash. There's a prime example where css with wordpress used as a cms would be prime.

Doing this brings all kinds of people. That's why those cartoons of graphic designer vs client are dam popular. It isn't like all clients will listen to you.

So no that wasn't intended at all to be dismissive.

Gee. That must be why Safari won't go to web sites unless Apple approves them. Or maybe it's why I can't get email that isn't approved by Apple.

Oh, wait. Those things aren't true. So much for your theory.

where's your sources to back "it" up LOL.

Back WHAT up. WHAT exactly, do you want backed up?

Still awaiting the explaination as to why you said I apparently said the flash player for mobile was PROVED. That's troll behaviour.

btw web shop is a term often used here. Look it up if need be.

Anyway, what a lot of wasted time.

So we've learned that few want proof of a flash player, even though none exists beyond some demos of a beta, and they really hate flash.

and the world... is truly, a better place for it.

So go forth, and hate flash. it is after all. quite a noble cause. Enjoy!

Sounds like someone had too much electric.

Groove is pretty persistent - poor guy has been arguing his point for 9 hours straight.

When you count in his lunch break it looks like Adobe isn't paying OT on this subject justyet. I wonder if they use their own accounts of if they rotate the same account between shifts.

takes two to tango.

it seems solipsism can only really hang on to the idea that I might be employed by adobe.

paranoia perhaps?

perhaps what drives him to make things up...

still hasn't addressed this lie, and generally, trolls don't.

Dude, if he was a troll, he'd have been banned about sixteen thousand posts ago.

And I totally support Apple in banning the porting of flash apps. More often than not, using a ported app is much like eating someone else's leftovers.

What part of Apple's letter do they not understand.

I thought Adobe had Google and HP and Palm and Nokia and Blackberry and Samsung as partners...
Why can't they leave Apple the hell alone.

Why is Adobe pestering Apple and not Microsoft? MS won't allow flash on Windows Phone 7 either.

Adobe loves Apple so much that they tried to destroy Apple with antitrust charges.

Who the hell do they think they are dealing with here...

Grow up Adobe!

My very first reply to him I pointed out where is woefully incorrect and kept pointing it out, but he just keeps backtracking like a training circus chimp on a unicycle and saying that isn't what he meant or whatever trolls do to always prove their case without ever posting anything to backup their position. I think his first post on this forum was to TenoBell; it started off smarmy and condescending and then just continued on from there.

I believe that is called "sloppy seconds" using the vernacular.

.

actually no. Here's my first post.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...2&postcount=72 Nothing really "smarmy" really. The discussion deteriorated from there from everyone involved.

And your very first reply to me you called me a kid looking for the ban hammer. Then you went on to call me a liar, and adobe shill.

So you never did reply as to why you are compelled to lie that people said something when they didn't. Regardless of how many post you have here, that's pretty low.

As I said, only trolls do that.

http://www.mikechambers.com/blog/201...ndows-phone-7/

I highly doubt adobe could hope to destroy apple with an anti trust. They should just put out a good player. End of story.

Adobe has refuted virtually nothing in the Steve Jobs letter. That speaks volumes.

Adobe is desperate to turn the tide of public opinion in their favor and against Apple. The problem? Most people don't care about Flash. They love the content that has been provided in Flash, but do they care about the technology itself? Not at all! If HTML5 or an app can fill the hole left by the exclusion of Flash, they're not going to toss out their iPad/iPhone just because certain code won't run on it.

You have been told before, 64bit AMD Linux was only released in 2003, and you were expecting Adobe to fully support an OS that would have had next to no users in 2004?

Yes I agree, when you see Safari and iTunes on Windows you realise how bad this method is.

You are calling solipsism a troll? You really need a realty check

I don't use Windows much, but I do remember Quicktime being quite awful, so I wouldn't be surprised if Safari and iTunes on Windows weren't as good as their OS X counterparts, which proves Apple's point.
Who takes a joy in using non-native applications? I use a few cross-platform programs; I always think how much better they'd be if they were actually developed specifically for OS X rather than for no OS in particular. I have never come across a native application and thought: "Gee, this application would be so much better if it were written in Flash, AIR, Silverlight, or Java."

You might want to ask Apple.

It's been kinda' a special day!

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Just like there are roughly 60-100 million Mac users they are easily 10 million linux users in the world.

Compared to the hundreds and hundreds of millions of Windows users Adobe prioritizes their devs by deployment size.

What am I supposed to tremble?

well, I don't know what is accepted around here. But when someone constantly twists what you say, and then blatantly asserts you said something when clearly, you never did, then cuts and runs when confronted, what am I supposed to think?

Is this the accepted way of communicating here?

Seems there are others here who are better capable of communication. Sorry. I just call it as I see it.

Perhaps that's just the way newcomers are talked to I don't know. Perhaps you get too many actual company trolls and some are over paranoid and freak out if someone dares give an opposing opinion.

I suppose Adobe doesn't like being reminded that Apple doesn't need Adobe to thrive.

I just stumbled across Adobe's next ad campaign.

We have some real trolls on this site, hence my comment. Good argument between Apple lovers is just par for the course, no need for name calling. Don't give up on us.

You really shouldn'ta.... but I woulda'

.

believe me I've fought off the best of the windows trolls in a mac forum for years. I get that. I was one of the few developers who switched to mac years ago, and I've had my share of BS slung at me.

But adobe shill I'm definitely not. Personally I'd rather kill off dreamweaver.

Can I get you to verify what you said, I was referring to then number of 64bit Linux users in 2004, which would have been closer to 0 then to 10 million


Indeed, people seem to miss this point

So in saying that, don't you think they should practice what they preach before trying to force the process on others.

Are the web ads going to be in Flash?

http://clicktoflash.com/

Wow, after reading thru 10 pages of posts, I'm spent. The verizon vs at&t threads weren't this tedious, were they?

So it's been pointed out already, this campaign smacks of desperation by Adobe. They really contradict themselves as well, at least in my view. They seem to think this is just a PR problem, when in reality it's a issue of technology and corporate strategy. Apple outlined their position in SJ's letter, but I think that was in response to rampant internet speculation based primarily on rumored comments by Steve Jobs, not so much because this is a "PR" problem.

My initial thought was, hey Adobe, how about instead of wasting money on PR and advertising, you just spend the money on fixing your software? Perhaps, though, they realized that the cost to fix their software far exceeds what they will spend on the ad campaign. Or more likely, perhaps they correctly understand that the ship has already sailed on fixing their software, at least as far as it pertains to Apple platforms.

My point here is that I believe the current performance of Flash on mobile platforms is moot. Apple's stance wrt to Flash on iPhone has more to do with Adobe's lengthy history of piss poor support for Apple's platforms and the likelihood that they will not change in this regard, as well as the sound technical reasons that have been been delineated in Apple's letter and elsewhere.

One more thing. Adobe ♥ Apple? Oh really? Maybe they ♥ Apple, but they have nothing but contempt for the MacOS, as well as Apple's customers. This much is clear, ever since they bought Macromedia, killed off all the competition, and have been raping Apple's customers by charging exorbitant prices for bloated garbageware ever since.

F$CK Adobe.

Maybe your comments were weak and unsupported and he was providing his opinions, which were more strongly supported with rational information and logically theme to his reply.

Btw understand definition of a troll

As described by Robert Bond in The International Review of Law, Computers & Technology, trolls usually exhibit a typical pattern of behavior:

In ‘The Art of Trolling’ published on the web it is suggested that ‘in Usenet usage, a “troll” is not a grumpy monster that lives beneath a bridge accosting passers by, but rather a provocative posting to a news group intended to produce a large volume of frivolous responses. The content of a “troll” posting generally falls into several areas. It may consist of an apparently foolish contradiction or common knowledge, a deliberately offensive insult to the readers of the news group or a broad request for trivial follow-up postings.

P.S. I did not comment on the article, since even a blind man could see that Adobe are plain silly releasing such statement and ads. Steve Jobs must have hit an artery with Adobe on this one.

To be honest I wouldn't think that owners of a 3 year-old phone would expect it to be able to implement all the features of a new OS. Those with any kind of reasonable expectations, that is.