or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign - Page 2

post #41 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by macdawg75 View Post

I've been on an iPhone since day one of the original and on the iPad from day one as well. Haven't missed flash at all and am seriously considering just deleting it from Safari on my Quad and MBP. I had 3 crashes last week...all three a result of Flash. If Adobe can't get Flash to work on the desktop or MBP, the last thing I need is Flash crashing my iPhone and iPad.

I defy anyone to install a flash blocker and at the end of a week tell me their browsing experience is anything but improved. Gone are the scream jumping 'hey look at me' ads polluting every page, and gone are the hack-written sites that make you stop for 5 minutes to play their inane artistic vision with no navigational options.
post #42 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

You guys thought I was crazy when I said iphone would get multitasking but look what happened. Now I'm saying it will get Flash some day.

Yeah, it'll definitely get flash, an LED flash.
post #43 of 448
.

You say ...

"No company -- no matter how big or how creative -- should dictate what you can create, how you create it, or what you can experience on the web."

.

So ...

Now you'll release ALL your Software for FREE ?

.



.
post #44 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Because Apple first criticized THEM for a product that doesn't exist.

Instead of giving it a chance then deciding from there, they pushed out misinformation to justify not ever even attempting to make it work. Wouldn't you be mad if you were Adobe? Especially now that Android 2.2 has been shown to run it just fine?

From what I read about the flash demo on an Android phone could not be defined as "just fine" The phone was kept plugged into a power supply for the whole demo most likely to disguise Flash power drain, and there were crashes. All of this on a high end high powered device that very few phones could match in hardware specs.
post #45 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Really? Which ones...porn most definitely hasn't .

sadface
post #46 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

NY TImes still uses Flash on the web:

http://video.nytimes.com/video/playl...115/index.html

and you were trying to say?

I'm enjoying rich HTML5 content on my iPad from the NY Times website - exactly as I stated. Nice attempt at deflection, though.
post #47 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

Especially now that Android 2.2 has been shown to run it just fine?

Right, which is why it crashes on Android 2.2...not just fine. Also, if you noticed the demo...the phone was plugged in. Personally, I like the idea that the iPhone is mobile which means I can be out and about for extended times. Suspect that Android was plugged in so the demo didn't show the battery drain. If they didn't have anything to hide, they would have shown it mobile like a phone should be.

Perhaps that's what Adobe is considering getting into...the huge battery pak business. By a huge battery pak to keep Flash operating while you take your cell phone mobile. Would love to see that media campaign.
post #48 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Really ? Which one's- Virgin airlines?
Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, porn most definitely hasn't .

You really are clueless aren't you.\
post #49 of 448
Adobe ♥'s Apple

Awesome! Does that mean we're gonna get a desktop flash browser that doesn't crash every 3rd page I look at, or cook my genitals when I'm watching video?

That's the biggest feature missing from the iPad in my opinion.. I was watching a video on it the other morning and it was a bit chilly. I thought to myself "If only this thing would get hot enough to burn my genitalia, then it would be truly magical".
post #50 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

NY TImes still uses Flash on the web:

http://video.nytimes.com/video/playl...115/index.html

and you were trying to say?

NY Times also does video without Flash on the web:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/29/i...ideo-ipad-app/

and you were trying to say?
post #51 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

You got to love wars between companies

Well... shit, oh dear!

The Bickersons!

http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/the...-2/id264482800

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bickersons

.
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #52 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Exactly... and its called HTML5.
There is nothing critical to the web experience done by Flash that can't now be done with standards-based methods.

I am not yet sure about html5 to the things I do in flash. I'm definately fine for it playing the videos.
post #53 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Postulant- dude I have no idea what you're talking about.

So are you saying that Apple supports Flash for the web now and just not for mobile devices?

So, you will have an idea what they are talking about. Big big hint: The link.

Many of us sometimes fall victim to such human frailty, myself included.

To others who are familiar with the technology: Has the New York Times completely forsaken Flash, or it just offers alternatives? As such, if it detects say an iPad, it will automatically play the non-Flash version.

I tried it again on Tuesday, because I am having issues with the NY Times in my old iBook (never had so much issues with it before. However, in the iPad using Safari browser (not the NYT Apps which I have not seen nor tried yet, if already available), the NY Times was very fast loading. I did not see any "blue regions" in the front page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Really ?.., porn most definitely hasn't .

Again, if you are well read enough, there is an article that explored how the porn industry has adapted to the no-flash iPhone OS ecosystem. The porn business cannot ignore the "85 million and growing" iPhone OS ecosystem. When Apple deleted X-rated Apps, they may still be viewed in iPhone mobile devices via the internet (browser based) through non-flash alternatives.

And, if you ever visited any porn site lately, you will find that many offer alternatives video forms so that they could be viewed in multiple devices. some including the iPhone OS. As noted by others, there is a device detection now that will then automatically play the appropriate, in this case X-rated video,

CGC
post #54 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"We believe open markets that allow developers, publishers, and consumers to make their own choices about how they create, distribute, and access content are essential to progress,"

It is cute how they like to claim they are "Open" -- that claim actually only regarding marketing (apparently) and having no connection to Open Standards. The Open they want is to have everyone Open to using there technology. Apple is not interested in supporting a CPU hogging technology that is not available to the public -- and I am not interested in using it.

The bottom line is they can see the possibility that large amounts of people may see the light when they look into alternatives for development and I am sure it scares the snot out of them.
post #55 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

I defy anyone to install a flash blocker and at the end of a week tell me their browsing experience is anything but improved. Gone are the scream jumping 'hey look at me' ads polluting every page, and gone are the hack-written sites that make you stop for 5 minutes to play their inane artistic vision with no navigational options.

I've watched Hulu all week long and haven't had a crash yet? I even love the Hulu desktop.
Tell me -am I doing something wrong? \
post #56 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Exactly... and its called HTML5.
There is nothing critical to the web experience done by Flash that can't now be done with standards-based methods.

Except crash your mac. The open standards can't do that. SO THERE!
post #57 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

However, in the iPad, the NY Times was very fast loading. I did not see any "blue regions" in the front page.

CGC

You mean like this:


post #58 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by sip View Post

interesting thing is that Shantanu has been shunted aside and the big guns, Chuck Geschke and John Warnock, have been brought out to defend Adobe.

Signs of desperation?

I'm not trying to defend Adobe here, but isn't it simply appropriate for these guys to respond to Steve Jobs? I mean, Steve Jobs is the CEO of Apple after all.
post #59 of 448
Dear Adobe,

I saw your ads, it was thoughtful of you to make them non-Flash, today I used a HTC magic running Android 1.6, I went to your site and tried to download your Flash Player, it said my platform wasn't supported.

Why Adobe, WHY are you denying me my freedom to experience the vision of the Internet that you wish to share?

It is so unfair, you took away my choice.

I feel mindful to start a class action on behalf of all unsupported device owners (except for Apple one's).

Yours sincerely

A happy iPhone owner.
A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this...
Reply
A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this...
Reply
post #60 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

I've watched Hulu all week long and haven't had a crash yet? I even love the Hulu desktop.
Tell me -am I doing something wrong? \

did you watch it on a mobile device? We are talking the future of flash ... not flash today. We get it that flash is the 800 lb gorilla on desktop non-touch machines.
post #61 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post


A happy iPhone owner.

Apple has sold 85 million iPhones and Touches to people who knew in advance those devices didn't support flash. I think the people have spoken emphatically how they feel about flash and its relevancy. We can tally up the iPad sales at the end of the year.
post #62 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I'm enjoying rich HTML5 content on my iPad from the NY Times website - exactly as I stated. Nice attempt at deflection, though.

How can you enjoy the NYT in any format?

post #63 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Really ? Which one's- Virgin airlines?
Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, porn most definitely hasn't .

I tested all my favorite flash porn sites on an ipad at the Apple store. Every one of them worked.
post #64 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

I'm not trying to defend Adobe here, but isn't it simply appropriate for these guys to respond to Steve Jobs? I mean, Steve Jobs is the CEO of Apple after all.

Nah, they would get nowhere with Steve.

Steve would respond, "Drop Flash. Not a big deal."

Adobe is just pounding their head against a brick wall. Apple has shut out Flash from its mobile devices. End of discussion.

(It should be noted that most mobile technology companies also have shut out Flash. It's not just Apple.)
post #65 of 448
[QUOTE="No company -- no matter how big or how creative -- should dictate what you can create, how you create it, or what you can experience on the web."[/QUOTE]

Mr. & Mrs. Adobe, does that also include malware?

No thank-you. I'll take a "closed" system any day.
post #66 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC Kelly View Post

.
"Now you'll release ALL your Software for FREE ?

What does that have to do with reality?
post #67 of 448
/crying on the inside...

Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
post #68 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

NY TImes still uses Flash on the web:

http://video.nytimes.com/video/playl...115/index.html

and you were trying to say?

@yesiCan, are you being obtuse on purpose?

The url you provide plays fine on an ipad. There is this thing called browser detection, you know.

Also, where did you purchase an $800 13" macbook pro? I needz to get me one. Assuming you purchased it new and recently.
post #69 of 448
Personally, I'd like to be free to choose to experience a web not dominated by Flash's many woes. If Steve Jobs can make that happen, more power to him.

Safari on my iMac used to crash about twice a week. Hearing that Flash was the cause, I got the free ClicktoFlash extension. Now, rather than run whether I like it or not, Flash only plays when I choose to play it. Safari hasn't crashed since that happy day.

I'd also like to be free to experience an Adobe InDesign that isn't cluttered with Flash-hyping features, precisely what happened with CS5. The worst of that is that the new features don't let users repurpose existing content to add Flash animation. They simply turn InDesign into a third-rate PowerPoint.

I asked someone at Adobe if those new features would let me page through an InDesign document, simply panning and zooming, Ken Burns fashion, on specific content. That'd be a good way to turn a paper or a book into a presentation, I thought. No, he said, for that I'd need to export the pages as jpegs and use a full-featured Adobe Flash application. "Why would I want to do that," I thought to myself. "If I export the pages to jpegs, I can use iPhoto, which is free, to do the same thing and do it much better."

Adobe did the world a great service by creating and promoting PDFs as a fixed-appearance document interchange format. It might do the world another service if it got fully behind ePub and turned it into something that's actually useful for complex reflowable content. But Adobe is doing no one any good by continuing to push Flash down our throats in the name of "choice." For animation and video, something better is needed.
post #70 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar View Post

Adobe ♥'s Apple

Awesome! Does that mean we're gonna get a desktop flash browser that doesn't crash every 3rd page I look at, or cook my genitals when I'm watching video?

That's the biggest feature missing from the iPad in my opinion.. I was watching a video on it the other morning and it was a bit chilly. I thought to myself "If only this thing would get hot enough to burn my genitalia, then it would be truly magical".

post #71 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesiCan View Post

Really ? Which one's ? Hulu hasn't , NY Times hasn't, ...

(rudeness removed), Does it really matter if these all have iApps associated with their sites as well?

The only thing that's actually true about the statement from these Adobe guys is that the web is going to become less relevant as access to content becomes walled off on Apple's new platform (and to a lesser extent Android's). Just as every big concern had to have a website in the 90's, now everyone has to have an app. But that has nothing to do with Flash.

I'm disappointed in general with this open letter. If they really believed what they are saying, they could easily get it by simply:

- making Flash actually work
- making Flash actually secure
- open sourcing it
- applying to make it a standard part of HTML

It's a virtual lock that Apple would accept it if Adobe did that, they just don't want to, and we should all be thinking about why that is. It's a bit late in the game for them now anyway, but they have had years and years to go that route and they didn't. They haven't even bothered to make the thing work properly and now they are crying when new technology replaces them?
post #72 of 448
In his letter, Steve Jobs laid out a well-thought-out argument for why Apple does not allow Adobe Flash onto the iPhone/iPad universe. He gave specific reasons, all of which were grounded in reality.

Issued a few weeks later, Adobe's response does not refute anything Steve's letter said. All they really state is that Flash is one of the most common platforms used on the web, and that some of their other applications are leaders as well.
post #73 of 448
That was why I used the example of a different device, I'm fine with not using Flash on an iPhone, however I'm not fine with Adobe denying the choice of other device users.

Should Adobe be held accountable for restricting the Internet for everyone who doesn't have a device capable of handling their software?

They are the one's making the claims.

How about the visually impaired, by taking this stance are Adobe also denying the freedom of people who can't use screen readers with Flash content?

It's some pretty big claims Adobe is throwing out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Apple has sold 85 million iPhones and Touches to people who knew in advance those devices didn't support flash. I think the people have spoken emphatically how they feel about flash and its relevancy. We can tally up the iPad sales at the end of the year.
A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this...
Reply
A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this webpage so it was reloaded.A problem occurred with this...
Reply
post #74 of 448
Awwwww, aren't you cute and all with your bad examples and piss and vinegar.

So the nice thing about what Steve Jobs did was to get this out in the public eye. It forces Adobe to have to talk about it where before they could pretend there weren't issues, and gives them the opportunity to either effectively address the issues that Steve called out or demonstrate that they were blowing smoke.

Let's remember that in the course of the ill-advised (where the hell was the FTC on THAT decision) purchase of Macromedia, Adobe did their level best to compromise and kill Flash - which was a Macromedia product. When it became apparent that Flash was popular for doing quick and dirty "flashy"web content they decided to support it and add it to their product line. But ironically according to insiders it's still internally the redheaded step-child with only 4 support staff for the Windows side and 1 for the Mac side - and up until recently absolutely no one dedicated to mobile (hence the abomination known as Flash Lite). They simply assumed that like the rest of their products everyone would just get in line and pay through nose for whatever they decide is good enough. Thus we have these panicked and unreasoned responses from their management - and the abject diatribe from their "evangelists".
post #75 of 448
I ♥ Adobe. But I hate it when a company forces its users to use 25 year old, buggy software
post #76 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

That was why I used the example of a different device, I'm fine with not using Flash on an iPhone, however I'm not fine with Adobe denying the choice of other device users.

How exactly, is adobe "denying choice"? You don't -have- to run flash. You could install click4Flash or simply uninstall the plugin. Is there an adobe "shill" sitting next to you preventing you from, excersizing choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

I'm not trying to defend Adobe here, but isn't it simply appropriate for these guys to respond to Steve Jobs? I mean, Steve Jobs is the CEO of Apple after all.

That's good for quite a guffaw. I doubt any of them would ever fathom the irony of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

I am not yet sure about html5 to the things I do in flash. I'm definately fine for it playing the videos.

And it won't. The shrieking about html5 "replacing" flash is, just shrieking. I don't see many full on flash experiences being replaced, anytime soon.

The truth is, both technologies are very much either in beta, being worked out, being proposed, in experimental stages (as those "flash killer" basic animation canvas demos which cook -my- genitals pushing my cpu to crazy heat...) etc. That's really where things are.

No one truly knows where things will be in about 2 or 3 years, but I do think adobe is under a lot of pressure right now (and rightly so) to produce a player that runs well on a mobile, and by all appearances, and from what I've personally seen (I saw it running), adobe will be successful very soon. It's success will depend on if they push it out too fast to satisfy the screaming banshees and it's still buggy, or put it out when it's done.

If they do put out a player that runs really well, well, I guess we'll see how that plays out.

As for the BSers screaming about being forced, no one is forcing anyone. Everyone would still have the choice to run it, or not, and the advances of html5 is a good thing for everyone. Having technologies advance and have new capabilities, is awesome.
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
Reply
What I got... 15" i7 w/8 gigs ram,iPad2 64gig wifi, 2.0 mac mini, 2.0 17" imac, appleTv, Still running my old G4 466 upgraded to 1.2GHz maxed ram as a pro tools machine, and 2 iphones.
Reply
post #77 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by trollhunter View Post

@yesiCan, are you being obtuse on purpose? ...

yesHeIs.
post #78 of 448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

You mean like this:



Indeed, thanks. I read about this agreement in passing. I forgot obviously. And I was sidetracked by rumors that Steve Jobs was still complaining about the NY Times.

It looks that it has now been implemented then. My question actually was: Does NY Times still use the "Flash version" as default, when it detects a standard Mac OS X?

CGC
post #79 of 448
Everyone should remember that Flash requires nearly constant updates -- and is the single most frequent cause of security vulnerabilities.

On a PC, I have to deal with a constant flood of updates (sometimes new ones are released before we can complete the prior update -- do we REALLY want this type of mess inflicting the iPad.

I am glad that Apple is pushing the open standards HTML5 -- at least that is likely to work without major updates every few days. They have had many YEARS to issue a stable system and have yet to do so ... their time is past.

Adobe is just playing the FEAR, UNCERTAINTY, and DOUBT game.
post #80 of 448
"No company no matter how big or how creative should dictate what you can create, how you create it, or what you can experience on the web."

If that is your stance, then why not actually update your software to work across all Operating Systems, notably Mobile Device OS's. Don't keep pushing back release dates.

"Adobe Flash technology remains the 'market leader' because of the constant creativity and technical innovation of our employees."

More often then not the websites that I visit do not use Flash, sometimes for Ads, but not the actual site itself. So to say you are the market leader is misleading. Flash may lead the pack in third party software with web capabilities, but not as a platform for creating sites.

"Apple... has taken a step that could undermine this next chapter of the web the chapter in which mobile devices outnumber computers, any individual can be a publisher, and content is accessed anywhere and at any time."

Apple is arguably leading the way for mobile devices, and personally I think they're goal is to outnumber computers with mobile devices. All Apple wants is software that will run everything on the web without compromising battery life and causing crashes. Unfortunately Flash causes both.

jerks.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Discussion
AppleInsider › Forums › General › General Discussion › Adobe fires back at Apple with open letter, new ad campaign